I'm done. Read my post about feeling like a hostage.
I'm currently out of town and he's acting up again. Did same thing in Aug. I go out of town, he becomes difficult. And I'm stuck half way around the world threatening to call the police.
I'm done. I know I'm done b/c I don't care what people think of me for kicking him out.
I'm tired of not wanting to come home from business trips, tired of the stress, tired of him not following rules and of me being too worn out/tired/afraid to confont him, tired of giving him cell phone, car, car insurance, food, roof, utilities and not even getting the trash taken out, tired of him not having a job, but "doing his best to find one." Can you tell I'm just sick and tired?
Anyone know what I have to do legally? I'm in the state of VA.
I plan spend much of next week talking to my T, social services (he's physically disabled), and his vocational counselor.
I just DO NOT care.....I'm so angry that I don't feel guilty or sad. I just feel tired.
Any suggestions are appreciated.....except giving him another chance....that boat has sailed.
momnthefog
It sounds like you might have to evict him. I read your other thread, sorry you're going through this. There must be a way to do this, get him to take charge of his own life and still show him you're giving him reasonable parent-to-adult-child support of sorts.
Mominthefog, I have no advice for you, just wanted to send you my support. What helped me, once I had taken such a decision, like you did in your post, I went with it. I did not falter. I often thought, am I doing the right thing? Should I not try something else? How much easier would it be, to just let it go and continue the old situation. But I just pushed on with my decision. Fearful. Doubting myself. Working a little bit on achieving it every opportunity I had. And admitting to myself that I had run out of the strength, the will, and the ability to fix it.
Momnthefog,
I read your held hostage post. I can see why you are totally exhausted and at a point of not wanting to give him another chance. It sounds like you really need to have a peaceful home to come home to, and that it might be time to move him out.
I don't have much advice other than that it sounds like you really need to take care of yourself. There comes a time. I wish you all the best and hope you find peace. Hugs, Adria
I have no advice either. All I can say is, what other chance would you even give him? You have given him so many, tried so hard to make this work, for him to carry at least a little of his own life and he keeps refusing to do so. Playacting while you are there doesn't count if it all falls apart the moment you aren't watching. All it shows is that he can theoretically do what is required of him, but in the end is unwilling. We all have a breaking point and I think that is healthy for our self-protection - it seems he has finally pushed you beyond yours. It is time you look forward to being at home again, for this being your home, your safe place again. :hug:
Sending you strength and hoping you have understanding and helpful people to work with in social services and whomever else you might reach out to.
momnthefog - I am just so sorry for all of the pushback you are getting as you attempt to fully launch your son into adulthood and hold him accountable for his own good and to give him the best possible opportunity to be independent and flourish.
all4peace shared this in an active thread about the pitfall pity can be that I started in the religious board and I think what she shares is pretty darn wise and powerful and may be some help to you right now on an emotional level:
Quote from: all4peaceIt is a beautiful thing to extend your loving hand to another. It is loving thing to support and stand by someone who has been hit with trauma and crisis, or even just needs an everyday sort of helping hand. It can take time, and sometimes a lot of it, to recognize that someone isn't invested in healing themselves. Those of us on this forum know it can be many years before we start healing and really growing. So please give yourself grace in not knowing that this person wasn't just a slow grower, but maybe someone more interested in being "saved" than "helped" as she struggled to grow and heal.
I learned in therapy the difference between "hurt" and "harm." It was a vital lesson for me, as my unwillingness to hurt others (with words of truth, distance, boundaries) was doing tremendous harm to me, my family and even them as they forever lived without the consequences of their behavior.
It is helpful for me, motivated by your post, to think back to biblical examples and think of how Jesus almost always required a contribution from the person he was healing, effort, movement, action. The blind man had to go and wash his eyes out. The cripple had to take up his bed and walk. Some had to bring their sick ones great distances to him. Others had to cry out for help. Some had to blindly obey and go against the laws of the universe and simply trust that water could somehow become wine. But, in my brief mental scan, almost always there was something that needed to be done by the one being healed.
I know this... your adult son has had the wherewithal and motivation to get all of his daily needs met, a phone, a car, I am assuming plenty of food, clothing and a cozy bed, access to counseling and higher education all while playing video games most of the day/night, disrespecting your house rules, creating chaos and conflict, reneging on agreements, and not taking classes or holding down a job. That is one smart and resourceful kid.
I somehow think he will be okay finding his own way in life just like all of the rest of us have to do. I am learning the very hard way that it is love that chooses to engage on the level of adult to adult with our high conflict, most stubborn consequences-resistant uPD family members.
Strength and wisdom to you as you find the best way forward in this very difficult situation! We are here for you!
Just sending positive thoughts for strength, support and determination! Your mask first! My heart goes out to you, tough love is not easy but sometimes so necessary, for them, for us.
Summer Sun
Thank you all of you for your support and encouragement.
I returned from business trip Sun exhausted from 6 hour time change. Yesterday I spent the afternoon with my daughter in law and newest grandbaby who is 4 months old. She's a young mother (only 19) and had a tough childhood, lives 2 hours from her family. I can pour into her, mentor her, teach her things encourage her....and feel like it's welcome, valued, appreciated.
There's a "contract" of sorts on the frig signed by him and his vocational counselor that looks like what he agrees to do starting Dec 1 if he doesn't have a job. Great.....she's giving him another 45 days to hang out with his friends playing video games.
I haven't spoken to him yet. I have a counseling session today where I want to talk through things with my T.
Thank you all.....having friends here makes the load a little lighter and eases the pain in my journey.
I know I am not alone.
Thank you.
momnthefog
Son was given the date of 1 May to be out of my home. Immediately started with, if I get a job and pay rent, I'll stay.
To which I said no. Out is out. If you aren't out I'm prepared to fill for an escorted eviction.
I followed up by going to see the Manager at the Voc Rehab Center. I wanted to discuss whether or not, son was following through. (He continues to tell me that the counselors aren't doing their part.)
Last note shows that he either declined or refused pretty much all services offered. Refuses attend any class. Didn't stay full 5 days at internship b/c "he knows how to do that job and isn't interested." Refuses vocational assessment. Failed to follow up on jobs as agreed with job placement counselor.
In the end the Manager asked if he had a dx....I said other than physical disability? She said "Yes....like oppositional defiant disorder?" I just sat there looking at her.....yeah....as much as I've tried to ignore, wish away, pray, pretend...another mental health professional points it out.
She will attempt to set up a meeting for all of us so that he knows that I know what's going on with the vocab center. Not sure that will change anything. I have a meeting with my T next week. (Son's next meeting with T is not until Dec.....the way he was acting yesterday and talking to me....I just COULD NOT wait any longer.)
Thanks for listening.
momnthefog
momnthefog - gathering all of the puzzle pieces together must help you as you go forward with your plan. More than fair amount of time for your DS to take advantage of resources and get in a position to launch by May 1st.
How are you doing momnthefog?
Sounds like a solid plan with a deadline and May 1st is the beginning of summer weather and work-- so hoping he'll have something lined up and in place. I am so sorry, I wish had more to offer- maybe you can set smaller deadlines on the way the 6 month mark so there is some pacing for you and reminders for him. Please take care of yourself and hope your T session is good.
Thank you all for the words of encouragement....and for asking how I was doing.....most of us lost in the FOG spend more time on them than we do on us. That has certainly been the case lately.
I've had moments where I seriously contemplated getting every penny I had and driving as far away as I could. I hate being in the house when I hear him come downstairs. I hate getting up in the morning and seeing that he (AGAIN) left dirty dishes by the sink. I hate it b/c there is nothing that I have been able to do to effect even the smallest consistent change. I explain the house rules over and over and he refuses to follow them. He told me the other day that if I'd just give him back "his internet" to the computer in his room, he'd be agreeable and follow the house rules and get a job. Nah.....I doubt it. Every and I mean EVERY attempt to hold him accountable, point out something he could do to improve his job hunting, any slight is met with hostility. Last week, I was told to "get off my dick." Apparently that's the new term for get off my back. I could not believe those words came out of my son's mouth....directed to me. And it wasn't said once. Once he got the desired effect, that was his answer to EVERYTHING. I went to my room and closed the door. He opened the door and just continued, continued to babble and talk.....I just sat there looking at him. When he finally stopped, I said are you done? And he said no and continued to tell me how stupid I was b/c I don't know the latest slang, wont let him have internet, and expect him to pay rent....blah, blah, blah.....you get the picture.
As for helping him with milestones.....it's just not possible. He is too toxic for me to deal with. I feel like DV victim....not unlike the final days of my divorce from a very angry alcoholic.
I recognize that part of the reason I feel overwhelmed is b/c I've allowed this to go on so long. I don't know what I would have done differently, maybe nothing. But I do see the damage to my psyche, my spirit, the negative energy in my home. I will continue down this path so that I can get my peace and so that he can become independent and continue his journey....whatever that might be and where ever that takes him.
If there's goodness it's that his siblings understand what is happening and refuse to be his flying monkeys. And....my infant grand daughter lives close by.....it's easy to find peace and joy when I'm with her. She just might be my saving grace until 1 May.
Thank you to all of you, so very much....it means so much to have this fellowship.
momnthefog
Oh MomntheFog, how awful for you. It is so understandable how this impacts your well being and my prayer is you spend as much time possible with your beautiful grand baby; nurture yourself in as many ways as you can, and focus on your other children. On that note, I had this thought come to mind, in the workplace, management spends most time with problem employees, correcting behaviors, coaching to expectations, working to improve performance, and if standards cannot be met, well termination is the outcome. You can lead a horse as they say... your son will be learning the very, very hard way, and blaming you all the way unfortunately.
Have you ever tried the shock factor? I'm too slow thinking on my feet usually though. Next time he tells you to "get off your dick", perhaps tell him, "at least I've got one" and close the bedroom door in his face. If he treats others as he wants to be treated, It would seem an appropriate and guilt free response too?
Sending thoughts of comfort and encouragement your way. Hang in there, you first!
Summer Sun
Summer Sun,
I'm not quick on my feet either when responding.
I tried to shock him by calling the police several months ago when he would NOT stop the harassment one night. All it seemed to do was make him bolder....if that makes sense. The police came in an spoke to him about eviction, etc....said to be respectful....they didn't "do" anything, and I continued to let him live here.
What I should have done is removed him within weeks of that incident. Instead, it's been a slow drip of hostility, lies, and manipulation. He continued to claim to be trying to get a job while ignoring what the vocational counselor required/suggested.
I'm also trying to avoid an escalation in his behavior. He has already badly damage a rocker that belonged to my grandfather using a knife he carries all the time ....which I also called the police about and was told that b/c its his personal property (and he hasn't threatened me) I can't take it away nor would they.
Reading this just makes me cringe. Giving him the benefit of the doubt did nothing for him and robbed me of precious time and serenity.
momnthefog
I thought it a good idea to give an update on my son.
In early Nov, I gave him the date of 1 Dec to pay 50 a month for phone. And date of 1 May for eviction.
Until Thanksgiving week. He was quiet....he had a lead on a job. So that meant and excuse to do nothing b/c he was "waiting."
Well that job didn't pan out.
Then he got a front row seat to his sister's meltdown and smear campaign. He understands that she has (again) cut herself off from the family.
He paid me the 50 yesterday, early. He showed me his bank account and that he hasn't taken any money out except for that and gas.
And then I asked if I could tell him somethings without him interrupting me.
And I did...basically that he had wasted the last 9 months, he was hanging out with people going no where and needed to stop blaming everyone else. He acknowledged that he had burned bridges at the vocational center by not following up and not doing what was told. He told me he has an interview today. And an appointment with the vocational counselor on Monday.
He listened without interruption. And when I asked questions he did not make excuses.
sadly, my first thought is ..... we'll see how long this lasts.
at least i have his attention.
momnthefog
momnthefog - thankful he listened to you and hoping he will follow through and continue these positive steps forward. :hug:
keep us posted. i hope it's a small step forward and not two steps forward, three steps back.
I hope he can stick with his resolutions and follow through, taking care of himself and while doing so taking care of his relationship with you. Him not having spent money on anything but necessary expenses is a good sign, and I hope it carries over into other areas.
I swear the difference between my son today and a month ago is like night and day.
He is still looking for a job. But he is very interactive with the vocab counselor (seeing her regularly, just took a vocab assessment), and church mentor (meeting him regularly to talk, volunteer at chuch), and VERY responsive and engaged with the family. Actually sat down with me last night and told me about several things that had happened during the day.
It's been about a month that there has been consistent positive engagement.
I attribute this to a couple of things......
1. I required him to start paying for his phone. I'd threatened over and over, but didn't follow through when he lost his job which was a big mistake on my part.
2. I gave him back his savings. It was only about 300 and I was trying to prevent him from using it for games as he had in the past. He moved to his own account....and that seems to make him feel more ownership and like an adult b/c he is completely in control.....and I've reminded him that when he can't pay for his phone he loses it.
3. He (on his own choice) stopped hanging out with his "buddies." About 18 months ago when he started hanging out with them, he underwent a gradual change....more defiant....I'm an adult you cant tell me....blah, blah. I do not know why he stopped hanging out with his buddies but I will explore this more when there's more distance from his friends b/c I'm hoping that with some time he will reflect on this and come to see their negative impact on his own.
4. He saw his sister act out at Thanksgiving and can't understand why she's so pissed at me and treating me so poorly......hmmm, a bit of the pot calling the kettle black.
5. Prayer. The day before I started noticing this, I visited the private Christian school he attended and spoke with the high school principal about him. The principal is a male and was very supportive during a time when son wanted to leave the school. The principal said he would start praying for him.....this is an answered prayer....and the changes (that continue now) are amazing.
I'm just praying that whatever demons he's wrestled with are gone.
Because life at home is much nicer right now.
momnthefog
Thanks for sharing that amazing update, momnthefog.
Hopefully, your son us growing up. He's lucky to have you. Perhaps he's figured that out.
What a beautiful update. Thanks for sharing it with us! :hug:
This sounds so much easier for you all! Wow, It truly takes a village .... and thankfully you've got support in place for yourself and for him and he's using it. Take some deep breaths and enjoy the season.
:cheer: :cheer: :cheer:
Momnthefog,
That is awesome! I am so happy for you and your son. Man, what a difference a day can make! This is definitely an answer to prayer. :hug:
We are now 1.5 months away from 1 May.
In the past month son got a PT job at a grocery store through a contact at church. He got a second job almost FT hours (completely on his own) at the public library. I'm very proud of this accomplishment bc it was accomplished without a friend/family member stepping in.
Fri I'm having the "you are still moving out" conversation with him.
baby steps.....baby steps.....
:whew::.
So glad to read your update, momnthefog: )
Really great update. This sounds so much better than last year this time! So happy he is doing better and now has 2 jobs!!
Woo Hoo! Great steps forward!
(I think I'm getting the hang of using this forum. )
Momnfog, such good news. How does your son respond to praise? Some bpds regress, some thrive. If he responds well, let him know how pleased you are with his jobs and that you knew he could do it! But also remember that the fear of abandonment may cause him to self sabotage so you won't "leave" him. I don't know how you two normally interact, but assure him you won't abandon him if he starts doing well. Does that make sense? My bpd daughter has made great strides because she now believes I will not reject her. She's actually thinking of moving in with a high school friend. I'm terrified but thankful she is being more confident. I still don't know how to view replies, if I have any 😂
Momnthefog forgive the slight detour from your thread...
Mommacon - to view replies in threads you have either started or posted in like this one go to the upper right hand corner of your screen under your profile name and click "Updated Topics". You can ask any questions you may have on Board Questions found here: https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?board=3.0 and FAQ where you will find additional help is here: https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=48572.0
It's a couple months out and I wanted to let everyone know that my son is still doing really well.
He's working both jobs. Has an interview for an apprentice program. Has paid 90% towards buying his car from me.
He's in counseling which I am certain has helped.
It's honestly like I have my kid back.
I'm pretty sure taking away the internet access to his personal computer (which is still not restored and never will be) was a HUGE factor in driving him to reflect and make change.
One small step.
momnthefog
Glad to hear that update, momnthefog!
My dd18's T said the same thing regarding removal of electronics,. It makes space for reflection.
It's miserable to hold boundaries, but necessary.
I'm so happy for you: )
My dd18 is still lined up for graduation in June. She's helpful in the kitchen, and seems pretty upbeat, in general. Youngest is always exhausted, and her neurofeedback brain scan shows her brain is always revving on high..... which helped her understand the exhaustion. She's looking forward to the 3 weeks of brain training to calm her brain.
Such progress momnthefog!
Happy for you, too HHaw!
Grateful for both of your families that you are seeing these changes and have been able to hold the line even when it is truly miserable to do so.
Awesome to hear all around! Thanks for the updates and hopeful for the summer and beyond !
Wow! Congratulations! This is such a fantastic turnaround. I hope he keeps heading in that good direction. And that you are getting some well-deserved time to yourself.
Really happy for you and for him as well as your other kids. A more quiet life & home is good for everybody. Sending you good thoughts that he keeps following this trajectory.
Update on my son's progress.
About 2 months ago, son was abruptly fired from job at library. This is son who is physically disabled. Based on my conversation with him and the timeline it seemed that the new supervisor refused to allow any accommodation when asked, refused to talk to the vocational support team he had. After a couple of days, he decided to talk to EEOC and a complaint was filed on his behalf. He is still waiting for the outcome. But I was proud of him for advocating for himself.
In the meanwhile he was still working at the grocery store....so he learned a valuable lesson about having a PT job in reserve. The grocery store increased his hours. And he was recently posted about on FB (his disability is very obvious) in a very nice way calling out the grocery store for giving him a chance.
And....he decided that he didn't want to be a store clerk the rest of his life. He wants to go to nursing school. So he's taking a 16 week course part time at a hospital to be a personal care technician. And he will be paying for that with his savings.
Its been pretty smooth sailing the past few months. We did but heads about him continuing to pay ($200) rent while he was saving for his education....I directed him to Dave Ramsey, his younger sister who works, is in high school and taking EMT courses, and his brother and his wife who both work full time and have a baby and are students.....he stopped talking.
My biggest take away is consistent guide rails.....its was hell getting here, but we are at a place where there's peace in the house and progress. And I can live with that.
Thanks for listening!
momnthefog
What a beautiful update momnthefog! Wow!!!! :applause:
Awesome news. I admire your perseverance and his as well. It is so great to hear he is advocating for himself. Awful though about the circumstances....
For the last week son has been very testy.
Tells me he's tired of trying to please me. Says he's comfortable and doesn't need to work more than 12 hours a week. meanwhile, EVERY time I come home I find him on the home computer (which has limited memory and functions) playing a game.
I remind him that I work 40+ hours, his disabled sister works 40+ as an intern with NO pay, his 17 yo sister works, goes to high school AND is enrolled in EMT at local community college at night, that his brother and SIL with a toddler both work and are going to night school.
He just shrugs and says he's comfortable where he is and doesn't see a need to work any more than he is. :aaauuugh:
I contact his father (my ex).....who I learn told him that he'd help him financially with the program he starts in Jan.....so, son has decided he doesn't "need" me b/c dad is footing the bill....and he doesn't need to do any more than the minimum to get by.
I want to scream.
Thankfully, I had a good conversation with xH who is going to sit down with son today.....will it fundamentally change son, no.
Sadly no.....this is who he is....all I by myself is some temporary peace.
momnthefog
I've removed the games from my computer and hidden the mouse and keyboard.