What to expect?

[Rose1]

Our situations are different in that I have girls (maybe better at reading body language) and they didn't have much contact with exbpdh. However I can tell you that as they got older they told me they appreciated the stability and peace in our house and the rules and consistent values. They appreciated that this meant they got an education, a job, a life that didn't revolve around caretaking their father emotionally.
As oldest got to 16 it looked like he was hoping for his d as a housekeeper. I pointed that out to her but she'd already seen it. And the pds in the family couldn't resist the digs as she got older and had her own opinions.
Ex remarried, to a probable pd who was a "counselor" and immediately attempted to "sort out" their relationship and did it by telling them they needed to become independent, leave home, stop being controlled by me (I know what you have to deal with). I can't tell you how angry that made me. But it made my d even more angry.
In my case at least, I found that hiding the pd behaviour didn't do us favours, teaching them how to deal with it also highlighted it. The behaviour isn't normal and shouldn't be treated as normal imo.

[Associate of Daniel]

Thanks, Everyone.

The assessment is on Monday.

I'm struggling.

The report is not confidential.

So the worst problem I forsee is that my relationship with ds may suffer as I will probably have to break some of his confidences.

Eg:  "Please don't tell Dad about X, Mum. He's really angry at the moment and he usually takes a few days to calm down."

The second thing is that whatever the psychologist writes may cause the uNPD exH to suddenly become FOTY until after the court case.

That would be good on the surface but we all know it won't be real or maintained.

Thirdly, the information I give would give uNPD exH a heads up of what I would present in court.

Fourthly, the narc rage will happen. I'm fairly well prepared for that but I still don't want to have to deal with it.

On the day itself:  I was told by the psychologist's office that I have to arrange for someone to look after ds after his sessions.

I've arranged for my elderly parents to come.  They have not seen uNPD exH for several years.

I'm hoping their paths don't cross but it's likely they will as one:  uNPD exH and his uNPD wife will likely hang around until their time to pick up ds. (It's happening on a day they pick him up from school and spend several hours with him.)

Two: They'd probably hang around anyway to try to intimidate me and to try to convince ds to go with them instead of with his much loved grandparents.

I visited the venue the other day to familiarise myself with the location and facilities.

There is no lift and the stairs will be difficult for my Dad. My Mum won't manage them at all.

The waiting room is tiny.

uNPD exH's uNPD wife will probably sit there with me while ds does his session with his Dad.

That, I don't need.

I'm losing a lot of sleep and having stomache problems.

On the one hand I can't wait for this to be over.  On the other hand I know it will open up a whole new stage of awfulness.

Should I mention to the psychologist the possibility that I may have enough to get a restraining order?

Should I mention the 2 times (that I can remember) when uNPD exH was violent with things in ds's presence? (Thankfully ds was too young to now remember) they are things that have since been  fixed so I have no evidence.

Should I mention the incident I wasn't witness to, when, in his flight response to non existent but perceived (by him) danger, he put himself and another person in very serious physical danger?

I'm really at a loss as to what to say and what not to say.

I don't have proof of the above things. All I really have is emails, most of which, when viewed by a not involved non, do not appear abusive.

I'll probably come accross as being childish.  "He's being mean go me."

I know I need to relate it back to ds. But the pds haven't yet revealed their true selves to him and he's yet too young to understand it all.

Help!

AOD

[Rose1]

I believe (but could be wrong) that the assessment will be around you, and theirs will be around them. So wouldn't volunteer anything about ex and the situation unless specifically asked. Certainly not restraining order as you will just give him ammo.

I have done some work related psych tests and if it's similar, the questions are to try and find issues with the person being tested. Imo it's fine to talk about how you feel about abuse even if it depresses you. It's also ok to say how you deal with bad feelings, all if which you do regularly. You manage anxiety but it's ok to say you have anxiety.

For a pd those questions may send them into a blaming rage which I  expect would be quite instructive. Your ex's wife might exhibit some interesting characteristics herself. Btw don't stay in the room with her. Get a coffee if you have to.

For yourself, answer the questions as instructed. Might be something like say the first thing that comes into Your mind. Try to avoid answers like "nuke the lot of them"😀.  But dont be too worried about showing weaknesses. Normal people have them but learn to deal with them in a way that doesnt include abuse of others. That in itself is a good indicator of normality. Better to say yes i get stressed about what I see as parental alienation but i work hard on maintaining a good relationship with my son and continuing to parent him. As opposed to ex saying I'm not putting up with this stuff and slamming the door on the way out.
See the difference?

[hhaw]

There will likely be questions, many many questions, designed to give a snapshot of your temperament. 

Things like...
cares more about herself than others...
is likely to seek vengeance....
that sort of thing.   

I think the last questions is "What is the worst thing that ever happened to you?"

You should think of your answers as snapshots of a slice in your life, bc there are often SO MANY ANSWERS to any question.  Just pick a time, and go with it..... a time in your life, how you felt, and what you were going through. 

I remember erasing so many answers, it was maddening, bc there were so many phases of BEING in a messed up relationship with a PD person.

You could bring something to read while you're in the waiting room.  Be polite to the new wife, and otherwise ignore her.  I remember there were so many questions I had to answer... about what age the children began walking, talking, everything medical, etc, and I brought notes, and knocked them out in a jiff.... so bring medical records, just in case, and everything you need to answer questions like that. You might be filling that paperwork out while waiting for ds and ex to get through their evaluation.

Remember, the PD will likely struggle with appearing normal.  They typically answer questions without admitting any deficits or things they need to work on.  That's a red flag.  Have things in mind that you're working on, that ds is working on, etc.  You aren't perfect, and it's a good thing to admit them.... just make sure they're very minor, and very normal. 

I think you'll be asked questions about the PDs.  Make sure you present your information without expectation, thus allowing the T to come to her own conclusions, and not punish you for telling her what she MUST DO, SEE, etc.

I would be very careful about presenting information I can't back up with evidence, particularly crazy PD stuff that makes zero sense.  You might touch on some past (understandable) behaviors that concern you, as a mother, but I wouldn't go off, or insist this T agree, or see things your way.  Just gently touching on some past things, without expectation, might be OK..... but is risky, IMO. Edit your story, and know what you'll talk about ahead, IMO.  The really crazy stuff, you can't prove..... might just make you look like the unstable one.  People as stupid questions.... "What did you DO to him, to MAKE HIM DO THAT TO YOU?" kinds of questions.
Remember to treat those stupid questions as opportunities to educate your listener.  Be calm, and measured.  Present as many documents as you can.  Change up stories so that they make more sense..... people don't understand insane PD behaviors that don't make sense,  kwim?

If you have things like calendars with notes about PD conduct... that's better than just saying stuff.  Police reports.  Notes.  Refer to documents, as you can. 

Stay child focused. 

Don't get all wild eyed, shoulders raised if the T starts asking crazy questions.... repeating things the PD said about you, etc.  Check yourself.  Wear a bracelet you can touch, and bring yourself back to calm, measured answers.

Short answers are better.  Remember... just the hamburger,  no bun, or condiments.  Short and sweet.  Answer, move on.  Answer, and move on.

it's easy to go down emotional rabbit holes when your child's safety is on the line.

Check that, and find a way to keep checking it. 

DO NOT GET DEFENSIVE, ever.  No matter what.

You're there to be helpful, and calm, and consistent mom..... you're there to tell a story.  Perhaps practice some of your answers in the mirror.

I remember speaking like I was addressing a young child, bc it was easier to stay calm, keep my voice measured, and give short simple answers if I was pretending to speak to a young child.

And... maybe record if it's legal, and you can manage it without getting caught.  I wish I'd had my entire interview on tape.

Breath. Think about your story.  Make sure it makes sense, and don't share anything that sounds over the top PD, bc honestly it will likely bite you.

You've been the stable, rational, mentally healthy parent all this time.  Your son has lived with you, and that situation will likely not change, so don't worry about it.  Go in there, and present yourself as a fair minded, calm, rational, child centered parent who will support the ex in being the best darned dad he can be... considering his "difficulties."

Don't dx him.   Don't tell the T what she must do.  Just tell your story.... without expectation,  and keep it short and simple.  Keep it centered around what you can prove.  Your son's life is at his present school, and with you..... Judges like to keep things in place when they're working.

Focus on your son's life, his activities, his interests, his abilities, his struggles, and be aware of your body language....
no wide eyes, shoulders relaxed, short answers, measured voice, and tone, no finger pointing, give facts without expectation, you're educating this T... don't get excited.... don't go down rabbit holes...... don't have coffee if it makes you more upset... maybe some calming tea instead... stay hydrated, bring a snack for you and your son... you could offer it to everyone in the room, and appear very nice, and maternal and friendly in front of the T..... you can speak about the importance of son having his father in his life, and how you'll support that, while stressing how son's routine where he is works well, with son flourishing, etc.

I'm sorry you have to go through this. I pray for the best possible outcome for you and your son.

[athene1399]

I will be thinking of you AoD. I hope things go well. I agree with the others, if you cannot back something up, then do not mention it (in regards to the past abuse). I know it sucks, but if you come off as accusatory, you may look like the crazy one. I do know how hard that is. You know what is really going on and you want these people to see it and help you. But you have to be gentle about it. Like Hhaw said, you can't go in there guns blazing demanding they do something to help you. Stick to the facts and focus on how stable your home is and how DS is thriving there. I also like how the others said to knowledge your faults and state how you are working on them. IMO PDs have trouble admitting their faults (unless they are doing it to play the victim). They try to show this perfect world in which they are the best parent ever. You can show that you are a good parent while discussing what needs to worked on and how you are trying to improve your relationship with your son and helping him with school work and stuff like that. And being calm. You know how to be calm. Even when you are under pressure. It doesn't look like your ex can always do that.

Good luck! 

[hhaw]

AOD:

Are you OK?

Remember, there will be ups and downs.  Try to stay level, and avoid catastrophizing.

I'm praying for you.

[Associate of Daniel]

Thks  Hhaw. And All.

I'm still processing it. I don't feel it was particularly positive.

I'm also working so will get back with a summary hopefully i  a day or so.

Ds is really struggling.

AOD

[Associate of Daniel]

I'm sorry I haven't got back to this thread.

I just haven't wanted to think about it or deal with it all.

It's been really, really hard.

Thankfully ds has calmed down and is back to his normal beautiful self.

We haven't yet received the psychologist's report.

I'm expecting from her implications, that she'll recommend 50/50, parenting classes for both of us and counselling for uNPD exH.

In other words, I'm not expecting it to work out in what I believe to be ds's best interests.

I will say as an aside, there were no weird pictures to identify!  I was quite disappointed. I was looking forward to coming up with some smart comment about the picture of a bomb.



AOD

[Associate of Daniel]

Family report artived today.

Recommendations:

Ds12 lives with uNPD exH and his uNPD wife and attend the school opposite their apartment.

Both uNPD exH and I attend individual counselling to deal with issues from the marriage.

Both uNPD exH and I attend parenting course for seperated parents.

We use Our Family Wizard or another type of tool for communication.  (I didn't know they were available in Australia.)

My initial reaction:  devastated, of course.

AOD

[athene1399]

I am so sorry AoD.

[Rose1]

  so sorry. But its not over till its over. Court still needs to decide and a lot can happen. I assume this is only a recommendation.

[Stepping lightly]

AoD- my heart sank for you when I read this, I am so sorry.  What is the proposed custody split?

I know this may not help now, but we went through a devastating blow like this a couple of years ago.  We went from 50/50 custody to EOW and some bigger chunks during the summer.  We were sick.  And, although it DOES suck, there are some things that are better.  We aren't engaged in a daily 24/7 battle with BM.  During 50/50, we were literally in hell every....single.....day.  Now that we have the new schedule, and BM documented her abusive communication one final time, we don't speak to her....ever.  Things are calmer, we are healthier.  We worry desperately for he kids, and there are some real challenges there.....but we all still have a great relationship and we have more abilities to actually support them in ways we couldn't before. 

If you are changing the schedule- I would take the time to make sure the new custody agreement has what you need in it to protect you and DS.  We use the CO to guide everything- we don't trade time...so there is no need to discuss it...ever. 

[Whiteheron]

I'm so sorry AOD. We are here for you.

[mamato3]

This made me sick to my stomach. I'm so sorry. Did she say WHY she thought custody should change?

[turtlemama]

I am so sorry AOD. Yes, it made me feel sick to my stomach and angry.

[Penny Lane]

So sorry. Sometimes you can do everything right and still be handed a big loss.

This is a process loss, not an overall loss, although it's a big process loss. I would be devastated too.

Remember that you still have a range of options, although this does remove some of your best ones.

I'm so sorry.

[hhaw]

Recommendation a kick in the stomach.

Please remember.... the recommendation made by the court appointed T was completely ignored by the court, and not mentioned ONE TIME in the FINAL ORDER.

NOT.
ONCE.

Looking back, that terrible report was likely helpful in the final outcome..... even though it felt like I was going to get crushed, and destroyed..... the opposite happened.

Please please please try to stay level, and enjoy the time you spend with your son.

Remember..... even if ex has primary custody, you're still the mom.  You'll have time with ds, and you'll always BE in his life.  There will  be pros and cons to that new situation, and I can't imagine the court will take full custody from you, and give it to the ex.

I'd be very surprised. 

Whatever happens.... you need to draw up, get some emotional distance, and look at it from every viewpoint.

I'm praying for you and your son.

[Stepping lightly]

AoD- checking in on you - hope you are doing ok!

[hhaw]

I hope it was clear that the court appointed T's report in my custody suit was completely ignored by our Judge.

I thought all was lost, based on that input, but that wasn't the case.  My attorney thought all was lost, and suggested I get my children out if the State, the report was that bad.

I wish I'd understood there will be good and bad days when in court with a PD, and to just not assume anything.

What I feared most, in every case, never came to pass.  Even when we lost, things were reversed, and put right eventually.

[Associate of Daniel]

Thank-you all for your well wishes, advice and support.

I'm sorry I haven't replied.  I've been hibernating as I tried to process the somewhat devastating Family Report.  I just couldn't face writing anything. But I've been hovering and gathering your messages to my heart.

There's not much to report. I have an appointment with my solicitor on Monday to see what can be done.

I've also clarified some of the report's recommendations. 

UNPD exH and I can attend seperate post parenting courses.

But we are to attend the same counsellor for the child focussed counselling.  Thankfully we don't have to attend at the same time.

But how do we come to an agreement on who to see?  Yet more pd drama to ensue...

There is more to report but I'm still fragile (and busy) so will get back to you.

Thanks again.

AOD