Reconnecting with alienated teenagers when I still have no identity??

[rockandhardplace]

I haven't actually left my UPDh because I am so fearful of him using my kids against me for revenge. He's already caused so many issues between me and my eldest (15) and now my 13 year old is falling under his spell. I was so in the FOG that I didn't really connect the way he denigrated me to my kids with their rude and disrespectful behaviour or how his controlling nature in the family was probably partly what caused my eldest (GC) to struggle so much in her preteen years. I used to actually try and talk to him about my concerns for her emotional wellbeing and rude behaviour.

So now I'm getting Out of the FOG and I want to stop thinking about what he's done to me and to them, stop analysing his behaviour and second guessing what he'll do next and focus on rebuilding those relationships with my kids. But I still feel so broken. Apart from not having a lot of time due to my studies ramping up (I need to finish to find work to be able to leave him), I feel like I don't know who I am anymore and it makes it harder to reconnect with my 2 teens. My youngest and I have a very strong bond because I was seeing the FOG when she was little and didn't allow her dad to interfere with my parenting of her. But teens are a whole new kettle of fish! I was such a sulky teen myself so I find recognising the difference between normal teen surliness and problematic (narcish/ alienated) behaviours so hard. I was so close to my son until the last couple of years when his dad started making him the GC, much to the confusion of his older sister. He loves finally getting his dads attention, but he's changing in a way I don't like. Rude, dismissive, calling his little sister names etc. When his dad isn't around I can usually talk to him about some of the behaviours and he'll come good and we can have nice dinner or chat about something else after. But he has the same defensive attitude his older sister has to any kind of parental guidance from me. The victimhood - unless I whisper they say I'm yelling, any behaviour correction is me getting them into trouble and taking their younger sisters side. I know this comes directly from their dad because he has no relationship with our youngest so tells the other ones that I favour her, spoil her etc. I've had some wins lately when I've remained super calm and addressed his complaints with facts, but I feel like I'm missing the other part of the picture in finding ways to have some kind of joy and fun with them. Not sure if this makes sense?
They have no normal family role models. They literally do not know what normal is. Because me and their dad literally do not speak to each other dinners are weird conversations between me or him and the kids. When we're all in the car together there is complete silence. So I think when I try and chat to them when dad isn't around they feel like they are being interrogated as they aren't used to conversations being a normal thing. And so me trying to regain my own identity and trying to remember who I was before I met him, I was someone who liked to talk about normal life stuff. When I'm with my friends there is non stop chatter and laughter but my kids never see that side of me. I think they are still seeing me through their dads eyes as useless, pathetic, loser (things he's yelled at me in front of them).
Not sure if this makes sense, but I just wonder if anyone else struggles with how to regain their own identity and also reconnect authentically with their kids?  And finding it harder to work out what's normal teen detachment and signs of alienation?

[verum71]

In the same boat - I have a 15 y/o daughter and it is difficult to decide what is normal teen behavior and what is alienation.  It sounds to me like you are still together with the father right now, which I can imagine can be very difficult.  Interesting to hear you say that "unless you whisper, they think you are yelling."  I have run into this with my kids as well - many times.  I like to think I have a black belt in staying calm and keeping my composure when dealing with my BPDx, and I carry that skill over when interacting with my kids.  When it gets reported back to mom (BPDx)  and brought up later by the kids, I was "yelling" at them, which seems to reinforce all of the negative views about their Dad when they are at mom's. 
Hang in there!!

[notrightinthehead]

Rockandhardplace, I am so sorry! The only way out is through for you, it seems. I wish you much energy and resolve to finish your studies.
You wrote:  When I'm with my friends there is non stop chatter and laughter but my kids never see that side of me.
May I ask why not? Would you be able to take your kids along when you are with your friends? Let them see that side of you?
Looking back, I realized I was so frozen and troubled by my unhappy marriage that I wasn't really there for my kids. I didn't protect them as much as they needed me to, I didn't support them to the extent they deserved. Only when the fog cleared and I was less enmeshed with my NPDh, was I able to give them more attention. I believe that by being more open and honest with them, by showing my confusion, desperation,  and resolve to change myself I modeled behaviour for them. By applying the tools from the Toolbox with them as well, I could keep our interactions calm and rational. Fortunately I got through to them, but it was a hard struggle.
Don't give up on your kids yet. Continue working on yourself,  continue on your own healing.

[Kat54]

I do understand this. My two kids are now in their twenties and becoming true adults.
But when the ex and I were splitting up and still even now but it's a little better, they defer to him and stay close under his control and manipulation. They see him as the victim and me, I'm not sure how they thought of me. I do know both very disrespectful to me and my feelings, dismissive. I've felt at times like I don't exist to them. Though I know it's not true.

As teens though it's much harder and I really feel for you. They aren't mature enough to understand relationships, manipulation, abuse. It's all they know.
My ex really taught them through example to be disrespectful to me, critical, yelled at me all the time and being in the FOG, I didn't really see it or understand. My son is pretty verbally abusive with his sister and it breaks my heart how much she endures. I keep trying to get her closer to me but She's pulled away and stays busy with her friends and school. She now has a very strained relationship though with her father. As she's gotten older she see what he really is.

Looking back if I had to do it over I would of called him out on acting that way toward me and maybe show my kids that I can't be treated that way.
My way of teaching them when you treat someone badly enough they will leave and end the relationship. As hard as the divorce was I think today they now understand why. I believe they see me as the stronger one but today it's still hard.

[Elsbeth]

my advice would be
- therapy (you and kids, you alone, kids alone) and with a therapist that is well versed in NPD
   ... for the kids is important in that no matter the age, kids want the approval and love of their parents (even the PD one)
- not sure of country/state you reside, and its really non of my bees wax, but perhaps a consult with a lawyer as to what would transpire if you proceeded to leave sooner than later
- you cannot control outer environment, no matter how hard we wish, and teens (the normal age to begin that defining of independent self) is outer environment
- work on you, being you - how you are with friends, when around kids. You can even do the Ted Lasso (think of the scene of Rebecca and her mom - her mom being kind to "Ruppie" even though she knows he's a sh|t")

those words of advice come from someone who watched the uNPD blame me, cry victimhood himself, try and divide and conquer relationships amongst our kids and with our kids, over a decade plus. I was essentially a single parent raising kids.

I too have struggled with boundaries and assertiveness. Even with my kids. My ex called me nothing more than a glorified nanny in front of the kids. Maybe that had something to do with it. I dunno.

and now, mr money bags is wooing two of the three with the money; when he was just the every other Friday night to Sunday evening parent when they were growing up.

and there is nothing I can do about it. I cannot compete with the beach house dad.

I am still struggling to find my own identity, build a support group of friends, and be able to support myself after years of this battle.  And finding me is really all I can do and be; and if I am trying to be a good human, then that is good role modeling.