The problem with grey/yellow rock... this is my kids father who spews this hate

[rockandhardplace]

I'm not technically separated but this feels more like the right place for this post as my issue with grey/yellow rock is all about the kids. I have literally hundreds of thousands of words of texts, emails etc from stbxupd. Almost everything in the last few years is emotionally abusive imo (not sure family court sees it like that). There's constant put downs, deflecting to bizarrely unrelated things, character attacks etc. and then some really blatant name calling. He will actually commit in writing to defending his right to call me names, suggesting it's not name calling but facts. His favorite being that because I was a stay at home mom I am useless and lazy and a bad role model to our children. Completely flipped our history because he wanted me to be sahm until our relationship broke down (I couldn't take the abuse/control). Anyways... I'm trying to organise the texts, emails etc to prep for family court. I can use my cognitive rational brain to see that all of the horrible lies he spews are just a way to avoid taking any responsibility for his behaviour, to convince me that I'm to blame for everything. Sometimes a grey rock / BIFF response works with him, but rarely. So that's obviously a big issue. But even just trying to organise the material makes me feel physically sick. I've always been aware that my reaction to his nasty words connects to normal human emotions as words are powerful. But even when I remember the great advice "consider the source" and use ideas from the narc decoder to recognise that all of his crap is projections, I'm still left unable to read the material without feeling sick. And I've come back to not being able to accept that my children's father could use the words that he does. The stuff he puts in his emails, I would not write to someone on death row for killing their family. The idea that another human being thinks like this makes me feel sick. But that this person is my children's father. How am I supposed to accept that? I try to imagine him being a 3 year old saying "well you're just a stinky poo face", but his words are much crueler. Any vulnerability or insecurity that he's picked up on in me over the years is used in the most sadistic way. And my love and dedication to our kids is favorite target for his bizarre attacks.

Not sure the point of this post. I am so desperate to get away from him, to start the separation process, but I know he's going to hurl even worse crap at me and destroy our kids further in the process. I suspect we'll end up in family court as he thinks he owns the kids and our house etc and I should get nothing. I know I need to get prepared and be able to have his nasty words picked over by lawyers and judge if comes to that. But reading them makes me feel so sick because I'm reminded that he is probably saying these toxic lies and twisted history to our kids when I'm not around. And even if he doesn't manage to brainwash them I keep thinking about their future with him. Whenever they disagree with him he will gaslight them. He can't accept himself as having any flaws so when I'm not the target of blame it will probably be one of them. That or he gets them all to make me the bad guy and they bond over their mutual hate for me? And they grow up in a dog eat dog world where lying is the strong thing to do, power is everything, never admit wrongdoing, anger is the only acceptable emotion etc etc.

[Poison Ivy]

I suggest that if you have enough money to do so, you hire a lawyer now. A lawyer will be able to tell you whether the emails will be relevant in the separation or divorce, and a lawyer might be able to direct you to a therapist, too.

[notrightinthehead]

I feel your desperation and hopelessness. Don't give up!
I don't know if you have a lawyer yet, I definitely agree with Poison Ivy, I found the rational, fact based approach of lawyers calming and re-assuring.
Also find a support group. CoDA, self help groups, crappy childhood fairy, yoga, mindfulness, whatever works for you.
When things got really bad for me and my mind totally muddled, I did exercise vigorously and clean a lot. This gave me back some feeling of control.
Take breaks from sighting the abuse material. A few poignant examples should demonstrate what you are talking about.
Reading through the abuse again is hurting you again. The pain from the words plus the pain that you allowed yourself to be treated like that and the pain that you don't know yet if this will ever end and you can feel safe again.
You can! You are working on that! Sending you a big hug!

[mogwaidelegate]

I haven't posted on this forum in a long time, but this post stopped me in my tracks because I can relate to every word. Unfortunately, even though I've been legally divorced for close to 10 months now, I still don't feel like I can see a light at the end of the tunnel because my ex regularly insults and demeans me both to me directly and in front of the kids... mine even says the same thing about how they're "not insults, they're facts and I just can't be a big girl and face the truth." I am not sure if you're in the United States but no lawyer I talked to said the verbal abuse counted for anything in family court. I am tearing my hair out currently because the constant harassment. What he says to me is appalling and disgusting, and he really digs into my weak spots like my guilt for "breaking up" their home by leaving. He says that I divorced him because I just wanted free time and to hand my kids over to him every weekend, that I don't love them or want to spend time with them. He tells them that too.
I don't want to frighten you, I won't say *he* had gotten better, but I am slowly slowly getting better at letting the insults roll off and trying to laugh some of it off as crazy as that sounds.

[escapingman]

I am not divorced yet, so take this advice for what it's worth...


After divorce, my plan is to only communicate with my Ex wife through a court-approved Co-Parenting app, such as OurFamilyWizard. I will then block my uPDw on all other forms of communication, including text, email, and social media.

While I realize this isn't a perfect solution, I hope it will reduce the unnecessary verbal assaults and limit comms to only what pertains to the kids.

That's my plan at least... could you do something like this?

I have done almost exactly what you suggest but kept email as the only communication channel. Any email from xw goes into a separate folder and when I see an email has been received I can decide when I am ready to read it. So far this has worked, I have kept 100% to the practical issues in the emails and not given any opening for her to try anything - I am sure she will come with some demands/threats/victim hoods at some point but I will deal with that when it comes.

[SonofThunder]

1. I can use my cognitive rational brain to see that all of the horrible lies he spews are just a way to avoid taking any responsibility for his behaviour, to convince me that I'm to blame for everything. Sometimes a grey rock / BIFF response works with him, but rarely. So that's obviously a big issue.

2. But that this person is my children's father. How am I supposed to accept that?

Hello rockandhardplace,

I want to toss my hat into the ring of this thread with two comments regarding your words above.  I numbered the 1 and 2 

#1. Imo, motive is everything.  Motive is a way to reframe my thinking about why PD's do what they do.  For me, it is extremely helpful to reframe.  I believe that 'self' is the foundational motive that drives a PD.  If that is true, then I am only a source of 'self' food for the PD, but I am not the final resting place for the motive. The PD is both the sender and the receiver. They are a parasite who needs a host. They proactively attach themselves to a supply host to obtain food from the host.  The host is nothing more than a supplier of needs for the PD. 

Projection is like shining a flashlight at a mirror. The mirror is being pummeled by the light, but its reaction is to send the light back out in another direction, and when the mirror is squarely facing the PD, they get the light of self-feed they need in return.

Therefore i do not believe that a PD is trying to avoid taking responsibility at all, they are simply in need of food, to feed the 'self'.  I also do not believe my PD's are trying to convince me of anything, but rather bait me like a fish to JADE their lure and respond, which provides them food.  The end of the line of a PD's actions and reactions is always self.  If we continue to be a reflective mirror facing the PD, we are simply a supply source in the middle of the entire circular cycle, which ends back home as food for the PD. 

Toolbox skills are for our own self-protection, so "works with him, but rarely. So that's obviously a big issue" is not the goal of Toolbox tools.  If we are using the toolbox to try and alter the actions and reactions of the PD, then our mirror is still facing the PD.  The toolbox's best use is self protection that allows us to remove the reflective surface from our mirror and in addition, turn ourselves in another direction.  When a self-motived PD shines their evil light in our direction, yet no food-light shines back for them, they will continue to make their light even brighter and focused in our direction, but we are in full control of our reflective surfaces.  Eventually the PD will start to hunger as no light is reflecting back and discard that once reflective surface as a target and shine their light elsewhere. 

My suggestion is that you think of yourself as only the midway point along the round-trip light highway for the verbal abuse.  The abuse leaves the evil mouth-garage down the highway to your beautiful cloverleaf mirror. It goes around your cloverleaf and then returns on the opposite side of the highway, back home to the PD full with fuel for 'self'.  A proper boundary is like a road construction barricade; refusing to let vehicles use a typical route, in full protection of the workers. Therefore, put up a full and proper boundary at the entrance ramp to your cloverleaf-mirror and let the PD's insults keep going past your ramp.  Again, imo hes not trying to convince you, he's trying to get you to react, by you letting his insults drive around the cloverleaf in your mind and return to him with the supply he needs to feed 'self'.  He is the full circle goal for his insults, not you. Motive is everything.

#2. I am the child of a man who sounds similar to your children's father.  I am not like my PD father. I am a byproduct of the sperm of my father and egg of my mother. Your children are the byproduct of the sperm of the man you describe and your egg. I refuse to accept my biological fathers personality as my own, but I cannot deny the biological connection.  Are you able to think of the word 'father' as simply biological?

'Fathers' and 'Dads' don't abuse and/or weaponize their offspring to use against their mother, to ultimately feed 'self'. Therefore if he does these, he is not a 'father' (noun), but has fathered (verb) offspring, by his sperm. He is a sperm donor, who sadly has legal rights at this time, to his offspring. Therefore my response to your question in #2 is that you accept that this man is a 'sperm donor' who now has some legal rights regarding his offspring. Imo children are very resilient.

SoT

[Penny Lane]

To piggyback off of SOT...

On point 1, I would redefine success. By using grey rock, you are setting a boundary about how YOU will engage. So however he responds, that doesn't determine whether it's "working." How do you know that it's working? Because YOU don't get dragged into a pointless argument. "Working" is 100% within your control. In my experience, there is a long term added bonus that the PD eventually decides to engage less, because they're not getting what they want from you. But that takes a long time, is uncertain and is not under your control.

There is another added bonus that is more likely and is under your control - if you can feign a lack of interest, sometimes you can internalize that outward calm. Not always - sometimes you will be absolutely bubbling with emotion inside. But not letting the PD escalate your actions, can give you a chance to deescalate your feelings.

To your second question. When you figure it out let us know!

Kidding, mostly.

I have known my now-husband for about 10 years, and I still haven't fully accepted that his ex is this way. Neither has he. We'll each go through periods of time where we're zen about it. But then she'll do something terrible to one of the kids or mess things up badly or we'll remember one of the times she tried to terrorize our house. And the frustration and anger steps in.

For me, and for him, time helped a lot, as did actively working on radical acceptance. You can't really jump straight there. For me, the first step in the journey was to move away from saying "she should" do this or "she shouldn't be allowed" to do that, then to really move away from the idea or the hope that she might ever change. From there you can start heading to acceptance - although again, I don't think that I will ever truly accept such awful behavior toward the people I love (and myself!)

You are on a very tough journey here. The only thing you can do is make the best choices you can with the information and skills you have available. You are a good mom and good person in an impossible situation!