Out of body experience

[hhaw]

EM:

I hope you can allow your STBX to deal with her emotions, without your feeling responsible in any way.

As SOT said.....your wife made her own bed.  Let her feel the weight of her choices. 

Attempting to control or shield her is folly.  Always, ime

[SonofThunder]

I just want to say:  What a treasure to have you people here (hhaw, pushit, others) who have walked this difficult path ahead of us, and can report back down the line with insight, wisdom and encouragement.  My hat's off to you warriors and im grateful to be here on this trail with you, and so glad you remain here, to come alongside your fellow comrades. What a blessing. 

SoT

[escapingman]

Thank you so much for all your support, I really couldn't do this without you!

I have engaged way more than I wanted to today, but at the same time I needed to get some things off my chest. I am glad in some way as it proved she denied doing the things either in full, or saying she was only joking or one incident she actually apologised for (I think she realised she had to as it was such a serious one). BUT, she has got it into her head that just because I spoke to her, all is fine. Had to push her back again telling her she is jumping the gun and nothing has changed. But, she is not getting it. She leaves love tokens around the house, comes with wedding photos to show me, talks about growing old together etc. What makes me so sad is that this is how I wanted her to be and how she should be, but why did it take her to receive a letter from a solicitor to become like that? Obviously an easy answer for us in here, but even when I know her inside our, her IDD cycle, her love bombing, her abuse, it is flipping difficult still as my brain just want this to end and to believe her. But my cognitive dissonance has been weakened, I now know, it's not real. I have had a fantastic evening with the girls, for once STBX hasn't sent them against me. I know this is how life with them would be without her, that is how I want life to be.

I will give her to next week to respond to the solicitors letter, I have a trip booked I really need to take, thinking of pushing for it whilst in a different country. But until then, just try to survive and give her the chance to respond.

And breathe.....

[hhaw]

If you give a PD an inch, they're going to take mile every
single
time.

Don't lose sight if that, em.

Ever.

[escapingman]

And I must say the most disgusting thing of all is...... after crying, begging, having her life destroyed, so on and on and on........ hearing her laughing her head off watching the TV 

[SonofThunder]

And I must say the most disgusting thing of all is...... after crying, begging, having her life destroyed, so on and on and on........ hearing her laughing her head off watching the TV 

Your day sounds like a classic episode of Warner Brothers "Sam Sheepdog and Ralph Wolf.' (YTube link below for easy reference if you desire)

"Goodnight Ralph...Goodnight Sam. See ya in the morning".

9-to-5 devaluation and an evening discard.  With a little 'lunch-break' hoovering idealization thrown in the mix for a LooneyTunes kind of day.  EM, my suggestion is put on your noise cancelling headphones and enjoy the silence, or watch a few oldies episodes of Sam and Ralph and see if you can work up just a little good-for-your-sanity chuckle at the similar ridiculousness that you are experiencing with PD 'lightning-round' IDD cycle behaviors.

https://youtu.be/jLhm5CyJ6JM

SoT

[pushit]

I have had a fantastic evening with the girls, for once STBX hasn't sent them against me. I know this is how life with them would be without her, that is how I want life to be.

Imagine a time in the future when this is every single day that you're with them.  No one around to intervene and create chaos for no reason.  No one to shout at you while you're disciplining your child, no one to shout at you because you and your child are joking around, having a fantastic time, and it's not about your wife.  Imagine watching a movie with your kids and the GC can't get enough snuggles from you.  Imagine having a blow up with your child, and then being able to follow up and talk it out to reach an understanding.  What you saw today is a blueprint for your future, and it will get so much better.  I can tell you that from experience, what I have today would never be possible with my exPDw in the house.

The best advice I can give is realize that all the noise you're going to hear in the next few months is just that, noise.  When I went through it I was unbelievably stressed out, couldn't even think straight.  Her lawyer was barking, my lawyer was intense (all lawyers seem to love the conflict unfortunately) and my ex was crazy making in all directions.  Looking back after almost 3 years since I filed, 95% of the bullshit in the first few months is now meaningless.  Everything I was stressed about then, now has zero effect on my life.  The key thing was focusing on the kids and a path forward without that relationship.  The accusations, the manipulations, man....I could tell you some stories.  My ex and her lawyer were spouting a lot of crap early on, but it all disappeared quickly.  Just stay strong and know the storm will pass. 

And a shout out to SoT, thanks so much for the kind words.  Also, right back at you brother!  You are a wise man and I've gleaned a lot of wisdom from you as well.  We truly have a great collection of people on this site, you all held me up when I filed and went through it a few years back.  I continue to learn from you all.  We are all in different stages of this, and I hope my experiences can help some folks in the same way that you all have helped me out.

[escapingman]

Thanks Pushit, that is really encouraging. Her real problem is that she has been so bad for so long time now that even my cognitive dissonance has gone. This together with finding this forum has helped tremendously. All of us need to walk a path and if we want our life's back we need to walk it all the way Out of the FOG and stay Out of the FOG.  Again she thinks, or at least acts as if everything is good again, I am just doing as short answers and interactions as possible to not get the kids upset. I am going to try to make sure I am busy or out most of the days to come, at least when the kids are in school, when they are home it is easy to "hide" behind them to avoid any alone time with STBX. So today I will make sure I am in or pretending to be in meetings and then off to the gym.

I think I really need to have this initial emotional roller coaster settled down before I do any knee jerk reactions. It will get ugly, it will get very ugly as soon as she realise her old tricks doesn't work.

[Stillirise]

EM—I'm a little late to the thread, but wanted say,you have made some incredibly brave and difficult steps!

One of the reasons I've been less active here, is I finally have my life back.  I'm still co-parenting with my updxh, which has its own challenges, but the day-to-day aspects of my life no longer revolve around a PD person.

You will get to this point.  There will likely be lots of ugliness before you get here, but knowing that is a huge step in your favor.  I concur with proactively working on yourself.  It's ok to take some time to rest and reflect. This is an exhausting process. 

It may sound callous of me, but I eventually stopped caring at all about my updx's mood swings and reactions.  I wouldn't say I started disassociating, but I did start watching him as an interested, but non-emotional party, like a scientist studying animal behavior. I was able to somewhat pattern and anticipate the next moves in the "gator roll."  That in itself became a source of strength. I often was, and sometimes still am, shocked when what I predicted would happen actually does.

I filed for divorce at the onset of COVID lockdowns.  We ended up remaining in the same home for about 8 weeks after that. I've been through a lot of trying situations in my life, and I think that was the worst. Just know there are better days ahead. Focus on that, and know the only way to get there is through this harrowing part.  Others here told me the same things back then. It was so hard to believe them, but they were right, and here I am.  Eye on the prize, EM.

[Lauren17]

I have had a fantastic evening with the girls, for once STBX hasn't sent them against me. I know this is how life with them would be without her, that is how I want life to be.

Remember this!
I had an evening like that with my girls, just after I filed, at the height  of the PD crazy. I journaled about. I've held on to the memory and I revisit it often. That one night has carried me through some very tough times.
I, too, have made some decisions that were based on trying to control stbxh's responses. I didn't see them for what they were at the time. But they were things like waiting to give him time to calm down. Or pretending my focus was on one thing so he wouldn't go after what is really important to me. Be wary of those. We cannot control anyone, especially a PD.
A cliche that's helped me tremendously is "one day at a time". This is such a huge and scary undertaking. But I try to just focus on getting through today.
You can do this!

[escapingman]

Again, thank you all for your support.

Stbx managed to get to me again just before a meeting, unbelievable what she is actually capable of doing to pretend she has done nothing wrong. Had to agree to whatever she said as one of us two actually work and had to attend this work call. Now she believes she is out of the woods  Have been watching her since the kids came home and having lost all feelings, good and bad, for her it's just so sad to watch. I am only trying to keep some kind of peace for the kids, but she thinks she can get reactions. It's a special event for one of the kids so I am doing my all to not upset this, but Stbx is not. I asked if I should order a taxi and for when, Stbx answers she will drive. Then 1 minute later she starts kicking off about she doesn't want to drive,  she isn't a taxi driver and she wants a drink. So I order the taxi I asked if I should order. She will not last tonight, she will find a reason to kick off and make a scene. But I have to participate for the kids sake, I don't want to be seen as the one not being there for them.

On a side note, for anyone normal. If your husband/wife asked for a divorce, would you feel happy if they stayed just because you threatened them to make your life hell if you left? Didn't think so.....

[square]

It's bizarre, isn't it? It's hard to grasp how NPDs don't exist in reality. It seems they are constantly shifting their view of the world and cannot grasp - assuming they even think we're real - that other peope exist in a steady world where years of abusive nehavior don't just disappear in the blink of an eye.

They seem to only perceive here and now, and how they can frame that here and now to their advantage. So she thinks she won? Well, that's sorted then.

[SonofThunder]

Again, thank you all for your support.

Stbx managed to get to me again just before a meeting, unbelievable what she is actually capable of doing to pretend she has done nothing wrong. Had to agree to whatever she said as one of us two actually work and had to attend this work call. Now she believes she is out of the woods  Have been watching her since the kids came home and having lost all feelings, good and bad, for her it's just so sad to watch. I am only trying to keep some kind of peace for the kids, but she thinks she can get reactions. It's a special event for one of the kids so I am doing my all to not upset this, but Stbx is not. I asked if I should order a taxi and for when, Stbx answers she will drive. Then 1 minute later she starts kicking off about she doesn't want to drive,  she isn't a taxi driver and she wants a drink. So I order the taxi I asked if I should order. She will not last tonight, she will find a reason to kick off and make a scene. But I have to participate for the kids sake, I don't want to be seen as the one not being there for them.

On a side note, for anyone normal. If your husband/wife asked for a divorce, would you feel happy if they stayed just because you threatened them to make your life hell if you left? Didn't think so.....

"On a side note, for anyone normal. If your husband/wife asked for a divorce, would you feel happy if they stayed just because you threatened them to make your life hell if you left? Didn't think so....."

https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/fear-of-abandonment

Imo, the hallmark trait of PD's. They go to exceptional heights to avoid being emotionally overwhelmed by the trait.  In a divorce, they cannot control the leaving action and reactions of the departing spouse so the PD's actions/reactions are hyper-amplified to avoid abandonment, and when reality of the divorce hits home, is when the other side of the PD abandonment-coin becomes exposed; self implosion and rageful-desiring the abandoner be severely punished in some strong method through an attorney.  Not saying to be negative, but in mental prep for you.  As for those on this thread so-far, who have gone through this before us, imo heed the experiential advice. 

SoT

[Gettintired76]

I just want to say, I have just started on the journey (filed today) and I still don't really know what to expect. What exactly she'll throw out on the table. I'm freaking out, but by the same token having you all to guide me with your experiences has been an inspiration and such a help, that I could never put into words how thankful I am this group is here .  Em Brother I wish you all the luck in the world, I know everything your feeling, because I've been there and am still there for bit longer. Peace to all.

[escapingman]

Yesterday went OK in the end, she didn't ruin the event for the kids. I obviously had to put up with a charade for the kids, but the real issue with this is that STBX acts on the charade and think it's real. I mentioned earlier in this thread that she had got an appointment through for an issue she has but has refused to deal with, it actually was true and it includes me. Here is a big dilemma, I want to help her for the sake of the children, this is something that possible could be sorted, not a deal changer for me, but might get her in a better state. But, I really don't know if I mentally can manage this, and I know deep down that all it will be is a session where she blames all her problems on me. But, at the same time I want to see how she acts with someone else in the room. As this is not a sprint but a marathon, if I can try to navigate through this with some kind of peace and not full on war fare I will try to do this, if not for me at least for the children. I am Out of the FOG so I am not worried in that sense, but with all her erratic behaviour and how it affects me I feel I need more support to enter the real battle, however this battle will look like. I am going to see my doctor again today, not sure what will be said but she wanted to see me again. It's still almost a month until I have an assessment meeting for Therapy, I really wish it was earlier, I need someone to talk to about this and what to do. I pretty much know where I stand legally and what options I have, but that doesn't help if something go terrible wrong with STBX and she follows up on one of her threats. I probably should look into my medical insurance to see if I can get help quicker through that, if not I will try to be away as much as possible until I get someone to talk to. It is almost impossible to do this with no real support, you all here are amazing and the best but I also need someone to talk to in real life.

Sorry for rambling on, I am just exhausted.

[Simon]

I obviously had to put up with a charade for the kids, but the real issue with this is that STBX acts on the charade and think it's real.

Hey e.m.

This is what I was talking about in an earlier post.
The more she "thinks" that everything is fine between you, and that the divorce is off, the bigger the rage when the divorce is brought up again.
I totally understand you wanting to keep the peace the way you are for you and your kids, and I don't have a solution for you, but I just wanted to reiterate just how precarious your position is right now.
And the fact that you are now considering going to that session with her, when a month ago you said you wanted no part in that, will only be seen as a win for her, and further proof in her mind that she can get you back to exactly where she wants you, where you've always been.

You're between a rock and a hard place my friend.
It's a shame that these things move at a snails pace.
It must make it so difficult for people in your position when it drags on so long.

[escapingman]

Hi Simon, I see what you are writing and I both agree and disagree. However, I will create a new post for this as I think what I am about to write is a big topic and not as black and white as it might look like.  Bare with me, I am busy with work but will try to create this post today - watch out.

[escapingman]

Sorry everyone, I haven't had a chance to start the new thread I wanted to start. I have been busy, but also in turmoil about what is happening. I had a long chat with a childhood friend today, he is the first close one I ever told about what is going on, I spared him the worst. He told me I have to get out. I know he is right, felt very good to share some of this even if I held back. Also spoke to ny doctor today, was offered anti depressants but said no to that.

Tomorrow is a new day, I try to start that new thread tomorrow.... thanks for all your support.