When do you make the decision?

[Cat of the Canals]

How do you stop that? Even when boundaries in place.... Stop them trying it on?

An example of what hes said and I've ignored the last few weeks:-

"You're brother calls me every day" - Not a chance, twice a week stresses the hell out of me
"You're brothers wife is an angel, looks after me" - And you're wife is awful because she doesnt speak to me
"I don't know how I'm going to collect my glasses, surely you've got spare time in the day" - Drive 50 miles round trip because you don't fancy a 200 yard journey on your mobility scooter - no thanks
"Surely you can't be busy every weekend?" - No but you're not monopolising all my free time
"You're wife needs to understand that you need to see me" - Again shes awful because she chooses, quiet rightly, to have nothing to do with me.

Not given in but, how do you stop this? In the past, we've had huge arguments and he backs off for a week and thats it.

To echo what was said above: there's little chance he will EVER stop trying to find cracks in your boundaries. Never, ever. It's simply not in a PD's nature, because it would require them to acknowledge the boundaries in the first place and say, "Hey, I guess I'm going to make the choice to respect that from now on." Can you name a single time he's ever accepted a "no" from you without complaining/whining/cajoling? If he's like the PDs in my life, I bet your answer is no. In my mind, it's best to accept the notion that they aren't capable of it, because it stops you wondering, "But why can't they just stop this behavior for once?"

Something that helped me recently was printing out the Medium Chill guide and sticking it to my fridge. Now I have all of those handy dandy, "That's nice." and "That's a shame." and "I'm not discussing this further." responses right there! I don't have to think or try to remember when I'm in the heat of the moment. I just look at the sheet and pick the most appropriate suggestion from the list.

Another thing that has helped is what moglow suggested: having a schedule that works for YOU and sticking to it. I used to feel pressure to call my mother once a week or so. During that time, she sent a whole flock of flying monkeys my way to guilt me into calling more often. So I started trying to call like clockwork, every Sunday at the very least, and I would let her go on and on and on for as long as she wanted. Do you think the flying monkeys stopped? No. I heard the same thing from them. (This was one of the things that began my journey Out of the FOG, incidentally.) It finally occurred to me that no amount of effort on my part would satisfy her. So why bother trying? I started pushing phone calls to once every 10 days. Then to two weeks. Lately I'm at more like once a month, and only if I feel like I have the energy for it. I also limit the call to 20-25 minutes. I literally set a kitchen timer and tell her I have to go when it goes off.

I won't lie and say it was easy. It's taken 3-4 years to really get to this point where the guilt is mostly gone. But it was worth the fight, because I feel so unbelievable free. It's taken almost 40 years, but the part of my life I spent feeling like a doormat is finally behind me.

[nanotech]

Jerry Wise ( see you tube) is very good on relationship systems.
It's to do with how in dysfunctional families, we are conditioned to 'ping' each other until we become embroiled in
eternal toxic conflicts. These conflicts  always follow the same patterns and never become resolved.
I've an idea ;
How about just owning being that 'bad 'son?
Jerry Wise talks about just taking on what they say, and 'agreeing' with them.
As in;
'That's just me dad, I've had jobs to do, and I'm ringing later than you thought I would, Do you know what dad, it may well happen again so there you are. Not much I can do, I'm just a bad son.'
Just state it. no sarcasm involved. It's a verbal shrug and a smile.
Then,  you've voiced the threat. This was their weapon and you took it and owned it. Where can they go after that?

And it's telling him that you are not going to change.
Watch Jerry Wise's  'systems' videos. 

A lot of their hold on us relies on our wanting them to show  praise/love/ liking for us. We want them to tell us we are a good son or daughter. 
We can end up sounding defensive, and then they pounce on that and we end up in a verbal fistfight. 
Then there's the partisan thing. My dad is the same 
First two kids =bad
Second two kids =good.
I'm the second kid!
The second two can do no wrong, and I mean NONE!
I gave  up trying to make both my parents see how partisan they were. My dad continues the family tradition. 
Admitting this favouritism happens in your family, is a big deal. I now admit it. I admit that I dislike it, but I no longer get emotional about it- and I certainly never bother trying to change it. It's set in stone. And get this. It isn't based on logic or merit.
It's based on the skewed view they have of their children, in terms of how they might, or might not, supply their narcissism.
It's a card game with fixed rules. Throw your hand.

[Fortuna]

Honestly your dad sounds exhausting.
For years I was waiting for a big blowout type of thing, something big and nasty that my mom would pull that would push me into NC. It ended up being kind of small. Just one more dismissal of my independence of a person, piled with a guilt trip and a couple of bits of name calling thrown in. I realized that every boundary I put up she was a velociraptor testing the fence for weaknesses, and when she found something in my wording she could use or something dredged up from childhood, or yelling at me that I must not love her anymore because I wanted to have a specific timetable for her visit because it's not just her we visit with on the holidays, she would use whatever she had to just to 'win'.

I had pulled back, and pulled back, set boundary after boundary, but she just kept trying to weasel around them. When I agreed to 1/2 hour video chats it quickly became hour long sessions with her annoyed the kids didn't try harder to entertain her. I had to listen in because I no longer trusted her around the kids. She tried to give me an ultimatum or she wouldn't come and 'help' me in the summers, so she wasn't invited the next summer. She ran off the kids on the calls due to her need to be entertained and never take them seriously. When she overstepped in booking a flight for longer than I wished her to stay without consulting me, then tried to defend her choice through manipulation, guilt-tripping, and name calling I let her come for the visit, but really began thinking about what the effort of maintaining contact was costing me. We'd had talks about her behavior and actions, I was mocked and told I had a vivid imagination that didn't match reality and she even threw her golden child my eldest daughter under the bus to avoid blame in a particular incident. If I remained in contact it was only enabling her behavior and encouraging it. It was starting to affect my kids too.

I so wanted to believe she could change if only I used the right words to explain my hurt to her, to let her know how damaging her actions were, but even in the phone call she sent after I went NC it was still only about her, her feelings, her relationship with the grand kids. There was no apology, only a vague 'we don't communicate well' It was more of the same the dismissal of me, of my feelings, of my rights as a person. I was glossed over as only a gatekeeper to her golden grandchild (who was already done with her grandma). I thought about NC for YEARS. I'm over a year in and with covid its almost taken a backseat, but in my case the pros of cutting ties was worth it. I'm slowly regaining a sense of self. When I initially went NC partly it was because I knew I let her treat me like that and wasn't able to recognize the emotional and verbal abuse unless someone else was there, so I went NC because all the other ways of managing the the PD person and limiting contact weren't enough for my own mental well being and safety.

[lightworld]

Just reading Lindsay Gibson's book Recovering from Emotionally Immature Parents and this seems to sum up what your father does and the difference between normal adults and PDs asking for help.

"Healthy and mature people certainly need help sometimes too. But they go about it differently. When they ask for help, they consider the other person's circumstances. They leave room for the other person to say no. They don't expect you to drop everything and attend to them, and they are appreciative when you do help them. Conversely, EI parents impose emotional pressure, then imply that you don't really care about them if you say no."

[Dandelion]

I was dipping into Danu Morrigan's book "Dear Daughter of a Narcissistic Mother" the other day.  When I came across her ideas and view of the "Drama Triangle" in family dysfunction p.206.   

In this triangle there is the Victim, the Persecutor and the Rescuer.  The narcissistic mother (sometimes? often?) sees us as her Persecutor.  We ourselves can then also get stuck in Victim mode and Rescuer mode.  Though its true we are victims of abuse, through brainwashing we can get stuck there.  We can also get stuck in Rescuer mode, where we believe it is our job to keep our Mother happy and fix all her problems.  (The same applies to uPD fathers I assume of course).  In this Rescuer role we can feel their temporary approval, with the baggage and seduction of that. 

Another thing I was thinking about was the N's sense of "authority".  I am thinking of my own mother here, who appears normalish 80% of the time. But when she flips into narcissistic rage or annoyance, what I see is her absolute "authority", as well as contempt for me.  She thinks ONLY HER thoughts and feelings count at these specific (but random) times.  MY thoughts and feelings do NOT.  At these moments, she is the parent, she is the authority, so she is always right, even when she is wrong. She is the Boss, the Authority.  In my experience, if you challenge her back in any way at these times, however mild, she will then either immediately Persecute further or else portray herself as Victim (of your 'abuse'); any further arguing or discussion and the whole thing simply spiralled even more out of control into a Persecutor-Imaginary Victim hysteria of rage and bitterness.   It really is mind-boggling to try and work it out.

I wonder if this is why, when some people go No contact that even if there is pain or distress, they often feel immediate relief because they are completely removed from this "vassal to an ultimate authority (with-capacity-for-abuse)" dynamic (which, btw, I think can be very subtle at times).     

I have had several periods of NC, LC, VLC etc.  But perhaps whether one decides VLC, LC or NC, grey rock etc, if it is working the core and central process is the same - detaching or removing yourself from this dynamic.  Which feels wonderfully freeing, but perhaps occasionally sad or difficult as one works through it.  As Morrigan alludes to, there are rewards, but it also requires some courage and strength.  Perhaps over time, this detachment and understanding grows  ...

[Dandelion]

I also wanted to add, re. decision of LC, VLC, NC, etc.  I really think its something we have to do and work out for ourselves.  Its part of our growing and development (something Ns can't really do) and making-our-own-decisions and also depends on our life circumstances.  Other people should not have undue influence on this, though their experience and views can be helpful sometimes.

I don't think NC or LC decisions are necessarily set in stone, though for some they are and that must be so stabilising. I believe it does depend on the kind of abuse , neglect and circumstances and who we are as individuals.  I myself have flip-flopped a bit, have had several periods of NC, also periods of LC.  I had one period of NC of 14 months which in some ways I wished I'd maintained, but due to my vulnerable circumstances and some things that happened, this changed.  If my circumstances were different, I might have continued.  Anyway, currently NC again (6 months), but may give my mother the option of contact (she's an ignoring N though).  I think what I have come to believe is that it is truly the 'detachment' from the dynamic aspect that counts, whatever course your choose.