2nd layer of boundaries

[Pepin]

I have had varying degrees of success at keeping PDMil at bay for as long as I have known her.  At the beginning I was a complete doormat...something that I thought I was expected to do as someone who had just married into their family and as someone who is not of their culture or race.  As a result, I really f*cked myself up -- coming close to exiting my marriage and even considering many times to just *poof*.  I was in such a state of despair - frustrated and angry that I had left a dysfunctional upbringing and walked right into another bad situation.  There was no way my past therapy sessions could have prepared me for this. 

I think I have finally pinpointed the challenge I have been struggling with.  Even though I have boundaries with PDmil, my boundaries with DH in regards to his mother are not good.  I am tired of living in a state of hyper vigilance, waiting for DH to jump at PDmil's next move.  She has many tricks up her sleeve and how could she not when she spends her days sitting mostly alone doing nothing.  She is clearly driven to keep her son close to her, to maintain the enmeshment that he keeps trying to avoid.  As a result, DH gets pulled in many directions and is unable to meet his own needs. 

DH has a problem with understanding that her needs are hers alone to deal with.  He spends his weekends being her rescuer when in truth she doesn't ask for this but he thinks she NEEDS it.  DH rarely supports his mother and I think this is something he was taught: you don't support family, you rescue them.

What I desperately need help with is setting boundaries with DH when he decides to rescue his mother.  I don't want to hear about the excuses he makes for her; I don't want to hear him blame others for her condition.  I am tired of the amount of time he puts into finding solutions for making her life better when she clearly isn't interested in what he has to say or offer.  I am tired of watching my husband put his needs to the side including his health as we both age. 

I can say that I have come a long way and I dropped the rope years ago and lessened the load I was carrying.  My dropping the rope upset DH for quite some time but he has since calmed down.  But watching him leave the house every weekend to go attend to PDmil bothers me.  It causes a break in our family time.  It shifts the focus away from our family...it causes resentment. 

For a while he was quiet about her.  But as her health has declined he mentions her more often...mostly during moments of frustration when he or anyone else has been unsuccessful in dealing with whatever her issues are.  For me, the real frustration is that everyone else seems to not see THAT SHE IS WHO SHE IS!  Why can't everyone just accept this?  Let her be.  Let her handle her own affairs and see what happens?  Why does this woman need repeated saving every single week?  This act of "saving" has limited effects and is never a fix all. 

NC with PDmil is difficult to reach because DH is a roadblock.  I don't want to see her.  I don't really want to hear about her.  I also want DH to focus his attention more on himself and our family.  Ugh, and here I am asking to change my husband...

Boundaries, I just need to know how to set more boundaries for myself so I can get out of this damaging dynamic.  I really want to reclaim what DH and I used to have.  I am not trying to rescue my husband; I am trying to help myself. 

[NotFooled]

Maybe you can get him to read a book on setting boundaries.  I just finished reading "Understanding the Borderline Mother"   Your MIL sounds allot like the hermit described in the book.  Perhaps if he sees himself or her in what he reads he can then begin to recognize the dysfunction. 

My DH still struggles with rescuing behavior with his mentally ill mother.  But at least he's fully aware of her mental illness and dysfunctional behavior and he has learned to set boundaries by reading about it.

[Pepin]

Maybe you can get him to read a book on setting boundaries.  I just finished reading "Understanding the Borderline Mother"   Your MIL sounds allot like the hermit described in the book.  Perhaps if he sees himself or her in what he reads he can then begin to recognize the dysfunction. 

My DH still struggles with rescuing behavior with his mentally ill mother.  But at least he's fully aware of her mental illness and dysfunctional behavior and he has learned to set boundaries by reading about it.

I am not sure that my DH even realizes that he is rescuing.  His word for it would be loyalty. 

For as long as I have known my DH (over 20 years) he has never once mentioned anything about PDmil's behavior other than he was embarrassed when he was younger.  I think that overwhelming feeling of witnessing ones parents struggle with responsibility and holding the family together was too much for DH, so he slid himself into that role.  He spent his childhood forward "covering".  And he also makes it seem that what he does is what everyone else does, too.     He is being dishonest with himself and dishonest toward his mother for not letting her just be -- yet she never made any attempt to break that cycle because it both gave her a break and attention. 

It is sad to say that there have been no conversations between DH and I where I have spoken up and said that his mother is an issue; I have a few times told him during heated arguments that clearly I am not his #1 lady and he had nothing to say.  I can only imagine the extreme backlash from DH if the truth was discovered that his own mother has been behind the curtain the entire time.  I can easily point out other family members that have identified bits and pieces about PDmil's truth but no one says a word.  We are all quiet.  The only way we have coped was to laugh about it...which is sad.  Additionally, PDmil is silent, especially if something she does is pointed out as a fact right in front of her.  She knows her truth but like a good PD won't admit.  She enjoys any attention she can get. 

In reality, DH prefers to blame everyone else AROUND his mother.  Getting him to read a book...oof...he is still too deep in the fog to handle something like that. 

Essentially DH has to come to terms with his own behavior and I am trying really hard to support him and protect myself at the same time.  I just have to be better at setting boundaries with him that involve his mother... 

[NotFooled]

My OCPDMIL was in and out of mental health institutions since DH was a small child.  So there really isn't any hiding her illness.   

But the situation you and your husband are in sounds very difficult.  In the book it describes how to handle the Hermit and waif borderline mother.  It might be worth reading just for your own knowledge. 

[Pepin]

My OCPDMIL was in and out of mental health institutions since DH was a small child.  So there really isn't any hiding her illness.   

But the situation you and your husband are in sounds very difficult.  In the book it describes how to handle the Hermit and waif borderline mother.  It might be worth reading just for your own knowledge.

I will start reviewing some of the chapters of that book and see if I can understand better the situation that my husband is in.  YES, PDmil is a Cluster C, without a doubt.  My own father is a Cluster B -- different approaches are required for handling either of these.  What I applied to my father, I cannot apply to DH but I can reasonable apply some of it to PDmil.  I feel that I have come to the end of what I needed to accomplish with her -- it is DH that I have to work on now in order to heal myself.  While I have respected that his baggage is his and mine is mine, there is this crossover area with regards to PDmil that has to be dealt with in order for both of us to understand what is his and what is truly mine to deal with.  Since he is in the fog, this is difficult to do...but for my own sanity I have to start working more on myself (again) in order to accept who he is...if that makes sense.  I am so tired of this continued "crazy" in my life and it is now affecting my health.

[Leonor]

I second Christine Lawson's Understanding the Borderline Mother. My m is a full on Queen and my mil, a Waif. The sections on husbands of bpds and healing for the children are great, too. Read it for you, if not for dh, because it is very kind and also realistic about how to heal from the abuse living with BPD parents or inlaws inflict.

One boundary can be saying to h. "I understand you're upset, but I'm unable to help you with this. I ask that you don't talk about your m with me, because it upsets me." If he brings her up, which he will, because he really doesn't want to be with her all alone, you stay strong. Here are some responses that I've used that seem to work:

"Hmm."
"Umm."
"Hmm."

Then switch up the subject:

"So, about that project we've been working on..."
"Want to go to the movies later?"
"I'm going out for a while. See you later!"

If he continues, kiss kiss, love you, see you later! And out you go to do something you really love.

Gentleness to you!

[Pepin]

I have skimmed parts of the book so far through audio I found online and there is helpful information.  However, I am realizing that this is more of a challenge than I thought because DH doesn't think PDmil is a waif. 

Yesterday we were having a conversation about her health and DH mentioned that he doesn't understand what is happening with her by saying: you used to be sharp as a tack.     Um, I'm not seeing this and never have.  I'm sorry but for as long as I have known DH and his mother, she has needed help in some form or another.  Perhaps him saying this is because he still sees her from the eyes of a child?  I really don't know.

Also, there are some things that clearly PDmil cannot do on her own -- even though they are a result of her own doing.  Most people would say: you made your bed so lie in it.  But DH doesn't see it that way.  He thinks that her struggles are health related.  Again, I don't see this.  He is looking for excuses to cover just about everything that is wrong with PDmil.  He seems to be in complete denial about her and to me; this is scary.

Ugh, and as we were chatting on the phone yesterday (since he is on a work trip) he brought up Thanksgiving.  First he said that we should go somewhere but then quickly changed his mind and said we should stay put since he has been traveling so much...and he starting saying: maybe since we haven't had Thanksgiving at our place in a while we should invite -  ....  and at that point before he could finish I cut him off by saying that whatever we do it has to be light and easy because our oldest will be working on college stuff.  DH didn't even get to finish and I know he was going to insert his mom into the sentence because we actually haven't had her over in a while. 

Ugh.  This is hard.  This is our last year together as a family before our oldest is in college.  I am not interested in celebrating Thanksgiving or Xmas with PDmil regardless of not having seen her for the last couple of years during those holidays.  NO.  I can't do it.  I won't do it.  SO now I have the ridiculous task on my plate of coming up with an excuse as to why she cannot join us.  And I sense that what I do might really set off DH.  Is it strange to not include her at Thanksgiving and ask DH if we can just visit her the day before or after?  *sigh* I get it that Thanksgiving is really a one day thing but...I just can't.  Including her means that it is about her and not Thanksgiving.  While I need Thanksgiving to be about Thanksgiving for our nuclear family...I am ungrateful for having to possibly include anyone else this year that is less than neutral.  I am not grateful having someone grace my dinner table who clearly thinks this is just another meal.  But DH probably does want this because it is his mother.  FYI...DH has other siblings and it is not that they don't care about PDmil, it is that PDmil doesn't care about them and DH more or less has supported her wishes...so she has spent more time with us sadly...   

[Leonor]

Hmm. Sounds like mil is causing just as much anxiety for dh as for you. He's just dealing with it by putting it on you. I mean, it's not even close to Halloween and he's planning the Guest List of One for Thanksgiving? If you respond with "okay", he doesn't have to confront mil. If you say "no", then he doesn't have to confront mil. Either way, anxiety relieved! And you get to take it on, either by hostessing with the mostessing, or by turning into the Disobedient Daughter In Law who refused to host her mother in law in her own home. This is classic triangulation: mil is abusive, dh is suffering, and he's seeking to relieve his pain by finding a buffer in you.

It's like that old movie War Games: the only way to win is not to play. Don't accept the "must" narrative, the "should" narrative, the "if you loved me" narrative, the "or else" narrative. You have the whole world of possibilities open.

Sometimes it helps me to go on a loooong walk. I walk until I no longer feel that same level of pressure (burns a lot of calories!) And I wonder about what I would like. No one else is allowed to intrude in my own thoughts. I let myself get super creative. When I come up with something not that I can live with, but that makes me feel excited about, that I would look forward to ... I plan: if that were possible, how would I make it happen? And so on.

If it's anxiety-producing to even think about, just remember that no one has to know that you have just planned a beautiful Thanksgiving dinner on the beach on a tropical island with all your favorite people and no internet!

Gentleness

[Pepin]

This is classic triangulation: mil is abusive, dh is suffering, and he's seeking to relieve his pain by finding a buffer in you.

Yes, I have been a buffer for many years....in fact I really do believe that by marrying DH and us starting a family that DH thought that would be the ultimate buffer.  Ahhh....to have been so wrong, I feel for the guy.

But, I see clearly now....I see what DH did not want me to see  and he doesn't know how to handle it because PDmil is lighting the fire beneath him.      

Staying in my lane for the sake of our family and sticking to the script is the only way I can see to get results.  I won't directly say to DH that I don't like PDmil and therefore she cannot "grace"  our table with her presence.  But I will dig my heels in and say instead that I only want to have Thanksgiving as a nuclear family before DD1 leaves for college next year.  DH has several other siblings that can step up ANY TIME as they have been incredibly lacking in the past.  That being said, maybe they don't step up because they are Out of the FOG: they are just living their lives as they should, so why can't we?

[Leonor]