How does this sound to you?

[T-dog]

Last week I received a message from my uNPDm who I have not spoken to since September. I have received a Christmas and birthday card in that time, and I also sent her a birthday card. We have had no other contact.

She is inviting me stay with her for Easter (I already have other plans but that's beside the point). There is no way I'm going there after how things ended last time we spoke, however I am pleased that she has made the effort to contact me. I am also being very cautious. I discussed a response with a good friend who helped to take all of the emotional parts out and cut it down so that we are only dealing with one immediate issue rather than a whole bag of them. I would like to maintain my boundaries and to gently make it clear to my mother that if she continues to treat me the way she has done, that I may not engage further with her. Can you let me know if my response below reads ok? It feels slightly ridiculous having to check with other people that a text message is 'ok' but I guess I'll worry about it if it seems like it's too aggressive or hostile (I'll worry about it whatever I say but you know what I mean...)

'Thanks for your message, and the Easter invitation. I'm not quite sure what to say to be honest. On one hand I appreciate you getting in touch. On the other, the last time we spoke you swore and then hung up on me. I have said more than once that I'm not ok with that and we would need to talk before meeting up-that would be the starting point if you're open to it?'

[lkdrymom]

I'm not sure you need to do this if this is the first invitation she has offered. Maybe "Thanks for your message, and the Easter invitation.  I appreciate you getting in touch.  Unfortunately I will not be able to attend as I already have plans.  Hope you have a good Easter. " I think if she continues to initiate contact I would go with what you wrote.

[T-dog]

  how did I not think of this??? Thank you for pointing out that there are other options.

I'm clearly still so desperate to resolve everything immediately, a hard habit to shake.

[Cat of the Canals]

It feels slightly ridiculous having to check with other people that a text message is 'ok' but I guess I'll worry about it if it seems like it's too aggressive or hostile (I'll worry about it whatever I say but you know what I mean...)

Literally had my husband help me craft an email to PDmom yesterday, so no judgment here. Feels ridiculous, but we are dealing with ridiculous people.

[Big Bear]

T-Dog,

I would go with the recommendation from lkdrymom.  This keeps it focused on just the most recent invite. 

I like the acronym BIF: Brief, Informative, Factual.

You got invited to something, you already have plans, you decline (in a polite way of course  ).  Case closed! 

Oh, and I hope that you enjoy your other plans!

Big Bear

[T-dog]

I was feeling quite happy with the message I sent. But it didn't take long for uNPDm's nicey nice facade to crumble. I received a garbled WhatsApp message today that included a mixture of lashing out, passive aggression and some guilt trips for good measure. I was so close to giving her a call and trying to work things out. And was thinking of cashing the cheque that she sent me, which I correctly assumed would be used against me at a later date.

I cannot understand how anyone would behave this way if they wanted a relationship with someone. I don't know if she's trying to hurt me or if she doesn't know how else to be, I can't imagine treating someone I love that way and still expecting a meaningful relationship afterwards. I've stopped shaking now, I hate that this sort of thing causes me to have such horrible physical reactions but I understand why it happens now. I'm trying to decide if it's worth replying at all-if drama is what she wants then she needs to go to the theatre as its not something I want.

I'm rambling now, I know that you all know what this is like and that makes me feel a tiny bit better as I'm not the only one and don't have to go through it alone. I would really appreciate any support, encouragement or wise words any one has to share right now.

[moglow]

T-Dog, as in most situations, I lean heavily towards: the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior. She does what she knows, what she chose. For most of us, when we learned better we did better - that's not the case for everyone. She's no doubt been told countless times that what she does/says is hurtful and damaging, yet she continues. She may not know how else to be, true, but everyone has options in that regard. She could also sit with whatever hits her wrong and think it through, decide if it serves any useful purpose.

The instant you justify argue defend or explain [JADE] yourself, you've handed her ammunition for future use. I'm not saying you have to lock down and shut yourself off, but some guarding of yourself may be in order here - she knows those buttons because she installed them. Flip side of that is giving her open table to vent her spleen and please just get it all out so she can put it down and move on [warning: it may be bottomless. I've tried it with mine and was a complete failure other than opening MY eyes to how deep it was/is with her.]

Reconsider not feeding the drama. Give it some air and space and reach out some other time if you choose. You can't fix something you didn't break - she has to choose that for herself. If she truly wants a relationship with you and is interested in working things out, she has to work for it. It's not a snap of the fingers and all is right with the world, for either of you. Harm has been done here, that takes time to resolve.

You're not alone.

[SonofThunder]

Hi T-dog,

Im sorry you experience this behavior from your mother.  You asked for support and encouragement.  You are not alone, as Out of the FOG is filled with kind people who deal with very similar experiences. 

You wrote:

"I don't know if she's trying to hurt me or if she doesn't know how else to be"

I believe that PD's are mentally underdeveloped from childhood and cannot develop further as adults.  It baffles so many, how PD's can have some friends and acquaintances in their lives who never see these destructive behaviors, which imo proves that self-control exists in PD's. That self-control makes the experienced abuse even more hurtful for us, the selected group of abused. 

I suggest you consider the mind of the underdeveloped PD, similar to a predator in the animal kingdom. The instinctive survival motive for predators is covertly attacking and feeding on innocent prey.  Why?  Hunger and instinctive need to survive at the expense of others.  Motive is 100%  'self' for the predator. Imo, please keep in mind that 'motive' is everything in understanding PD behaviors vs the behaviors of non-PD people.

Therefore for those other people that a PD will befriend and self-control around (shielding them from abuse or knowledge of abuse occurring elsewhere), motive is also the driving force in that friendly relationship as well, but the friend has no idea.  The PD feeds on those friend-people in a different way, for a different set of self-needs, and abuses others (typically close internal family or partner) for a different set of needs.  But...ALL people are being fed upon by the PD. The motive of the PD (like a leopard for example) is 'self'.  Since the PD's 'self' is underdeveloped like the leopard, they must acquire all 'self' from other sources, as their own storehouse is empty.  If they don't consume meat by force and water by gently lapping at the waterhole, they die quickly. 

Since (FoA) fear of abandonment is a foundational trait for PD's, their need to prevent the feelings of 'abandonment' is met by purposefully befriending some people, feeding on those friendship suppliers at the water-hole, and then abusing the very close family/partners, to forcefully take their supply of control/power meat inside the closer relationships that have a more difficult struggle with self-protection from the abuse. Both groups (abused meat and friendly water-hole) are actually both suppliers for the PD's hunger/thirst to fill their own storehouse by taking from those other sources.  Non-PD humans fill their own storehouses mainly with 'self' in which they have fully developed. 

If the PD abuses the water-hole friend supply, that friend has a shallower emotional connection to the PD vs the deep family/partner connection, and easily 'abandons' the PD. The water-hole quickly becomes dried up mud. The PD knows this, so in full supply motive, keeps the water-hole friendly and available. The PD fully understands the much closer/deeper emotional and physical connection to family and or partner, so they can abuse-feed for meat often, knowing that 'abandonment' from this group is much more unlikely.  In creative supply motive, the PD utilizes the Karpman drama triangle 🔺, and the IDD cycle to keep the supply of control/power meat source (the abused family/partner) close at hand, by manipulating the strong emotional and physical connection to family/partners. 

Again, motive is everything!  Many times, us abused feel that we are cared about less than the non-abused, but imo that's actually not true, as the greatest supply of need for the predator PD, is the abused and bloodied meat group, not the relaxed, less-energy-used sunny, cool water-hole. To understand the shallowness of the water-hole friend supply, watch how quickly a PD will abandon a water-hole and find a new water-hole, because of an infraction of the friend.  Oppositely, notice how much deep energy and crafty manipulation the PD expends to keep the abuser near and in good supply.  When doing so, it becomes easy to see the hierarchy of importance in the motive of the PD. 

That imo, is why the toolbox is so very important for the abused, because using the toolbox strongly and properly, progressively forces the PD to have increased difficulty in feeding from the abused meat sources.  Since the abused are an absolutely necessary food source for the PD, the PD eventually is forced to find an easier source of control/power meat supply (D=discard in the IDD cycle). The easily and readily acquired water-hole friends are kept in steady supply.

In conclusion imo, its your job to recognize and accept that you are the all-important meat supply motive for the predator PD.  Its your solo job to be strong, alert, smart and creative to steadily remove yourself as 'prey'.  When the gazelle prey move to different pastures, the leopard is forced to move with the meat supply or find new incoming meat supply in the same pasture.  T-dog, be the all important gazelle and move pastures, protecting yourself with the toolbox.

SoT

[Big Bear]

Greetings T-Dog,

I'm so sorry to hear how a simple invitation turned south so quickly.  I have both a overt narc and covert narc in my family of origin, so I understand how gut-wrenching dealing with this sort of thing can be.  It seems like they often deliberately push buttons to try to get a reaction.   

I think that the body has a way of warning us when danger is near.  Whenever I go near a balcony with a glass barrier I feel fear, I think my body is warning me: be careful, danger is near.  My body is warning me not to get too close to the edge so that I don't fall off.  I think it is sometimes the same with dangerous people after a difficult interaction.  The shaking is how the body warns you: be careful, danger is near.  Anxiety or fear can be a warning sign for our protection and safety.

I think that when dealing with narcs living our boundaries is often safer than speaking our boundaries.  For example: you receive a brief polite message.  You respond with a brief, polite response.

But then you get an inappropriate message, it is not something you accept, this is not ok.  So, you simply ignore the message and do not respond at all.  This is living your boundary.  I will respond to appropriate messages.  I will not respond to inappropriate messages.  The boundary is: If you want to hear from me, communicate in a respectful way.

Some people may adjust their strategy, others may not.  That is not on you.  Your job is to live your boundaries.  If someone wants to hear from you, a polite, respectful message is necessary.

I have practiced this approach with some difficult people in my life and I will say that it is not easy.  But, I have seen it really helping in the long-run.  Remember, it is totally acceptable to only respond to polite, respectful messages. 

Live your boundaries.

Take care,
Big Bear

[T-dog]

Moglow, SoT and Big Bear, thank you all for your wise words.

I calmed down a bit and reread the message -still very much laced with daggers and odd in general but easier to process when I wasn't in a state of fear/panic. I'm trying to use this as a way to strengthen both my boundaries and my ability to live by them. I replied to her message by ignoring all of the things that would cause me to JADE, and merely expressed that I was sorry to hear that she had been unwell and hoped she was feeling better. Most of her message was to tell me she had been in hospital and how amazing the hospital staff had been-this made me defensive at first and really confused as I had no idea why she was sharing a video message to the hospital staff (I haven't watched it, it's nothing to do with me!). I'm tentatively preparing my next reply to her comment about how she would like to chat soon. I'm not sure I'm ready for that yet, and there's a sense of danger here as she could have called me, or answered the phone when my partner has tried to call her. I suspect on some level she is aware that she has done something wrong but has likely 'forgotten' what it was. I don't have anything to lose, but this feeling of potentially being rejected by my mother is powerful and makes me want to choose my words very carefully to prevent another attack. I wish this wasn't the case and that I could let go of any hope of repair or resolution. That may well happen but for now it feels like I have control over my own emotional safety and I don't want to lose that. I talked to my therapist about how it would help to have things to say to change the subject if a conversation goes off the rails, and to work on compassion for myself so I feel strong and don't get sucked in to her feelings and drama. No idea how any of that will work out yet but I will be keeping all of your insights in mind, I will not be the prey/meat, I am a good person with value and I deserve to be treated with kindness. Lots of love to you all x

[T-dog]

After a little cooling off period I did eventually speak with my mum. She seemed receptive but she's also totally unable to see herself as anything other than the victim in every single situation and relationship.

She was acting like nothing had happened, inviting me to come and stay- naturally I was the one who had to address the elephant in the room and explain that we would have to sort things out a bit first. My heart was pounding the whole time, I could not calm my body but I still managed to say a lot of things that I wanted to say and do it calmly and assertively. I again suggested she gets therapy  and gave a great explanation for how it works (yes you talk about the past but in doing so you grow and the things that happened have less emotional impact). She managed to dredge up a few things that clearly have an emotional impact on her, I don't think she realises that I remember those things, and being reminded of them also sent me back to that time. That was hard and it's another boundary that I would like to strengthen: don't talk to me about this stuff!

What I found the most interesting/frustrating was that she is totally unable to see her part in anything that happens in her life. Her conclusion is that her 4 adult children have no relationship with her because we are, and I quote: 'punishing her for divorcing our father' (this was over 30 years ago guys, and my dad's been dead for 18 years so that means she can't directly blame him for things any more!). Of all the things she could come up with, she found a way to blame all of us without taking responsibility for a single part of it herself. I was astounded! I really didn't think she would find a way to twist things in her favour- it's almost impressive, if it wasn't so harmful to her and all of her relationships. I think I just replied by saying 'ummm, no that's not it' or something along those lines.

So there you go. Lack of empathy, unable to take accountability, bizarre interpretations of situations. If she gets therapy I will be pleasantly surprised but I can see that her thought processes are so wildly distorted that it will be extremely difficult for her to change or see things from anyone else's point of view. I'm still willing to give her a chance, things can't really get much worse than they have been, but I said to her that I deserve to be treated with kindness and respect so that's what I will aim for if we do continue to have some kind of relationship.

I think what I wanted to share, for those considering NC or LC is that you should do what feels right for you. Sometimes you need time to work out what that is and those feelings will change from one day til the next. I didn't want to go full NC but I also needed a break. I feel so much more empowered by the space I created, for not jumping in and trying to fix things, and for sticking up for myself without the JADE. Whatever happens in the near future, I feel like I've done the right thing for now. And I couldn't have done it without the support and help from everyone here, so thank you!