Handling relationships interference

[NotCryingGlitter]

I've been thinking more about the interference in friendships lately, how any new friendship is subjected to sabotage attempts through slander and telling about "gaslighting" situations (trying to make the friend think something is mentally wrong with you). All of this is making me think about romantic relationships. While some of us are single and/or not dating right now, others here are married or are in serious relationships, so I would like to hear from both sides...when you moved out, how did you handle any sabotage attempts early in your romantic relationship?

Did you have to warn your significant other from the very beginning that there may be sabotage attempts or slander, so that they would know to expect it? How long did you have to keep your relationship private after moving out, if you were low/limited contact instead of no contact and/or had many mutual contacts (grapevine)? Did they ever try to call them or talk to them in person, in one of their sabotage attempts, trying to convince them that you're a liar/have mental issues/will take advantage of them?

What do you wish you would have done differently, if anything, to handle the situation early in the relationship? How did your significant other handle it?

A little off topic, but did you find it (or would you have found it) easier to move out if you finalized paperwork and quietly began moving some boxes before telling them you were moving? How long did you wait to tell them you were moving, and how did they react?

[Liketheducks]

Did you have to warn your significant other from the very beginning that there may be sabotage attempts or slander, so that they would know to expect it? How long did you have to keep your relationship private after moving out, if you were low/limited contact instead of no contact and/or had many mutual contacts (grapevine)? Did they ever try to call them or talk to them in person, in one of their sabotage attempts, trying to convince them that you're a liar/have mental issues/will take advantage of them?

SO much yes here.   When I met my husband, this was one of the first conversations we had.   In hindsight, it is a wonder we had a second date.   I unloaded a lot on that first one:).   I told him everything from day one.   He didn't believe it could possibly be that bad.....and then he saw it first hand.     It's also happened with friends, siblings, distant relatives on social media, etc.   I've had to just get used to the idea that not everyone will know the truth about me.   Eventually, the truth comes out.   I received some pretty hellish DM's from distant cousins about what a terrible daughter I am.   I had to block people until they also figured it out and apologized.     My unpd parents STILL triangulate me with my siblings.     

I moved out the day after I graduated from high school, into the home of an aunt who was able to see through the toxic behavior.    Didn't give them much time to consider my plans.   

[monamurre]

My mom often tried to be the "cool mom" and befriend my friends. Unfortunately her go to move to accomplish this was to mock me to try to get a laugh out of them at my expense.    I don't think she ever bothered with a full on smear campaign or slandering behind my back. She was the waif/hermit variety of uBPD and tended to be more hands off than a lot of parents described on this board.

She was also famous for not imposing many (if any) rules as a parent and then flipping out when I crossed some invisible boundary I had no idea existed. This happened a lot around dating and sex. When I was 14 or something she set a basket of condoms on the back of the toilet. That was the extent of our "sex talk". She came of age in the 60s and 70s and was always talking in a way that today would be considered "sex positive". So, between her prevailing attitude and the basket of condoms I took it as a sign that she was okay with me having sex, as long as I was responsible. Fast forward a couple of years to when I tell her that I had had sex and wow, was her reaction a surprise! It was the single most violent outburst I experienced from her. She hit me so hard that my head bounced off of the passenger side car window I was sitting next to. Needless to say, I was beyond confused.

I learned pretty early on in college not to communicate with her about my romantic life. If I told her I was excited about someone she would launch into projections of doom and gloom. Her variety of this was typically a bunch of predictions that I was going to be used and abused (always before she had met the person, or learned anything about them). It ranged from annoying to excruciating, so I just stopped talking to her about it. I didn't really have a clear enough sense that something was wrong with her to forewarn anybody coming home to meet her. But, it was always uncomfortable for a number of reasons so I didn't usually bring people home to meet her very often after I moved out.

Moving out could be a short story of its own! Like most teenagers I planned on moving out to go to college. Although I had had zero help from her navigating applying for college, financial aid, finding and apartment, etc. it was still the plan and one I thought she and I agreed on. Fast forward to the end of Summer after my senior year. I had 4-5 friends over for a day time barbecue that was a really sweet impromptu end of summer celebration before we all went our separate ways. One of my friends younger brothers had a beer and I had my boyfriend stay over that night. These two points became the focal point for one of her most epic melt downs. The teen boy who drank the beer had the most liberal parents ever, they definitely did not care and she knew that, they were old family friends. And my boyfriend had stayed over many nights before with the knowledge of my mom and his parents. It was never a problem before. But suddenly, when she came home from work the next day to find me and said boyfriend cooking soup, she was a screaming, ranting monster. I ended up throwing everything I could into my car that night and leaving for good. It was the most pathetic goodbye and I remember feeling that I was dealing with a toddler. We maintained contact until her death and there was never an apology, explanation, or any mention of that ridiculous day.

[NotCryingGlitter]

Did you have to warn your significant other from the very beginning that there may be sabotage attempts or slander, so that they would know to expect it? How long did you have to keep your relationship private after moving out, if you were low/limited contact instead of no contact and/or had many mutual contacts (grapevine)? Did they ever try to call them or talk to them in person, in one of their sabotage attempts, trying to convince them that you're a liar/have mental issues/will take advantage of them?

SO much yes here.   When I met my husband, this was one of the first conversations we had.   In hindsight, it is a wonder we had a second date.   I unloaded a lot on that first one:).   I told him everything from day one.   He didn't believe it could possibly be that bad.....and then he saw it first hand.     

What did you tell him on the first date? What happened during the first time or two he saw it, and how long did it take to happen after she found out about him? I'm assuming he recognized it the first time he saw it?

[NotCryingGlitter]

My mom often tried to be the "cool mom" and befriend my friends. Unfortunately her go to move to accomplish this was to mock me to try to get a laugh out of them at my expense.    I don't think she ever bothered with a full on smear campaign or slandering behind my back. She was the waif/hermit variety of uBPD and tended to be more hands off than a lot of parents described on this board.

She was also famous for not imposing many (if any) rules as a parent and then flipping out when I crossed some invisible boundary I had no idea existed. This happened a lot around dating and sex. When I was 14 or something she set a basket of condoms on the back of the toilet. That was the extent of our "sex talk". She came of age in the 60s and 70s and was always talking in a way that today would be considered "sex positive". So, between her prevailing attitude and the basket of condoms I took it as a sign that she was okay with me having sex, as long as I was responsible. Fast forward a couple of years to when I tell her that I had had sex and wow, was her reaction a surprise! It was the single most violent outburst I experienced from her. She hit me so hard that my head bounced off of the passenger side car window I was sitting next to. Needless to say, I was beyond confused.

I learned pretty early on in college not to communicate with her about my romantic life. If I told her I was excited about someone she would launch into projections of doom and gloom. Her variety of this was typically a bunch of predictions that I was going to be used and abused (always before she had met the person, or learned anything about them). It ranged from annoying to excruciating, so I just stopped talking to her about it. I didn't really have a clear enough sense that something was wrong with her to forewarn anybody coming home to meet her. But, it was always uncomfortable for a number of reasons so I didn't usually bring people home to meet her very often after I moved out.

Moving out could be a short story of its own! Like most teenagers I planned on moving out to go to college. Although I had had zero help from her navigating applying for college, financial aid, finding and apartment, etc. it was still the plan and one I thought she and I agreed on. Fast forward to the end of Summer after my senior year. I had 4-5 friends over for a day time barbecue that was a really sweet impromptu end of summer celebration before we all went our separate ways. One of my friends younger brothers had a beer and I had my boyfriend stay over that night. These two points became the focal point for one of her most epic melt downs. The teen boy who drank the beer had the most liberal parents ever, they definitely did not care and she knew that, they were old family friends. And my boyfriend had stayed over many nights before with the knowledge of my mom and his parents. It was never a problem before. But suddenly, when she came home from work the next day to find me and said boyfriend cooking soup, she was a screaming, ranting monster. I ended up throwing everything I could into my car that night and leaving for good. It was the most pathetic goodbye and I remember feeling that I was dealing with a toddler. We maintained contact until her death and there was never an apology, explanation, or any mention of that ridiculous day.

I'm so glad you didn't get a head injury, but I hate that it happened. She shouldn't have set that basket there with you being under the age of consent.

How did your boyfriend react about her to you?

[NarcKiddo]

My mother tried to manage all my relationships. I was so far into the FOG that I did not see it for what it was, although I had some protective instincts.

The worst stage was when I was in my mid to late teens and being groomed by an older, married, employee at my school. At one stage I thought he would leave his wife for me. My parents knew what was going on but did nothing to discourage it. Then I learned the wife was pregnant and I ended the relationship. I was terribly unhappy and my mother thought the way to comfort me was to tell me what to say to him in order to try to rekindle the relationship and then force me to telephone him to say these things. It did not work. She then enquired about sex and seemed very surprised when I divulged that I had not permitted full intercourse (because I was terrified of getting pregnant at 17 and he never had any condoms). The next thing she did was to send me to her gynaecologist with instructions that he should perform a physical examination to make sure I was actually fit for sex! Thankfully she did not attend the appointment and the doctor could see that I wanted no part of this, so he just gave me some sensible advice and sent me on my way.

I think it rankled for a long time that I never told my mother when and with whom I eventually lost my virginity. She never asked outright.

A year later I fell heavily in love with a very unsuitable man. My family were right about that, as it turned out, but it was my mistake to make. My mother did everything to discourage the relationship, including having him arrested and then taking me abroad to where they were living at the time. I pretended I had got over him so I could go back home, supposedly to university. I found him and then I married him post haste. At that point I was thrown out of the family. But my mother eventually made contact again as she needed my supply. After I left him she flew back every time I reported a new boyfriend and tried to engineer a marriage. She would flirt horribly with them. My current husband got the same treatment but he was immune to her charms. That was probably a major factor in my deciding he would be a safe husband for me to have. I think she then thought she could get to him via his father as her flirting with him was even worse. But the father saw straight through her and on the day he met her he pulled his son aside and told him to be careful as my mother is a very dangerous woman. MIL is a fellow PD so I reckon my mother sensed she would not get anywhere with her.

My mother eventually realised she would not be able to control my husband directly, nor would she be able to control him via me. She was still able to exert control over me but my husband was now a good buffer zone for me. Just as she could hide behind my father and claim his influence if she wanted something done/not done so I could hide behind my husband. Her final major attempt at control of the relationship was when she realised I was unlikely to produce grandchildren for her. She thought I was getting rather old (I had just hit 30) so she rang MIL. She told MIL to put pressure on my husband to have children with me in case it was he who was refusing, and told MIL that if we did not produce grandchildren for her then she would disinherit me. MIL was appalled and reported the conversation to my husband, who was equally appalled, as was I when he told me.

[NotCryingGlitter]

My mother tried to manage all my relationships.

Your story...I feel so much for you and am so sorry you had to endure that. I also understand the "you're 30" thing, when many women over 30 have a clock that is still ticking without issue, cuz I've gotten similar comments. They grew up in a different time, but that doesn't justify the comments, because it's common sense women put children on hold longer these days.

You said her "final" attempt? Not that it justifies any abuse, but it seems her obsession with sexual things would lead to believe she had been sexually violated as a child.

[Liketheducks]

 

What did you tell him on the first date? What happened during the first time or two he saw it, and how long did it take to happen after she found out about him? I'm assuming he recognized it the first time he saw it?

When I think about it now, I know that this oversharing was probably inappropriate and a trauma response from me.   I no longer do that.   Our first "date"....the day we met....we ended up sitting and talking about everything.   We sat together for 8 hours before we parted that first day.   He just listened.   
He was a knight in shining armor.   So, he didn't really see it in all its "Glory" until many, many years later.   In fact, I'm not sure he was really in tune with how the gaslighting made him feel emotionally.   It wasn't until we had my mom move in with us and lived with it daily.   And, I eventually had to have her move out....that he began to recognize it.    In his family, he would have similar behavior, but no violence.  He comes from a culture that isn't really emotionally available nor would cutting off FOO be at all an option to him....and certainly getting any kind of counseling is taboo.   It was a death from a thousand cuts for him.   He was still in the FOG on my behalf long before it had started to lift for me.   I've had to erect boundaries with my FOO for us both - but I think that is really probably my responsibility alone.    And, my family tried and did pit me and my husband against each other until he realized what they were doing.

[NarcKiddo]

You said her "final" attempt? Not that it justifies any abuse, but it seems her obsession with sexual things would lead to believe she had been sexually violated as a child.

There has never been the slightest hint from her of anything like that. Nothing I know of the family history would suggest that, either, but who knows? All the history I know has come from her. She is certainly obsessed with sex and always has been.

After that "final" attempt she seemed to give up on trying to manage my marriage, although she would still try to manage me. That said, I considered divorce some years ago and told my FOO. They were so pleased that it made me totally rethink. I talked things through with my husband, we ironed out many of our problems, and remain together. We still have our fair share of issues (who doesn't?), especially as we are both from PD families, but the marriage is stronger and more satisfying for both of us.

[NotCryingGlitter]

 

What did you tell him on the first date? What happened during the first time or two he saw it, and how long did it take to happen after she found out about him? I'm assuming he recognized it the first time he saw it?

When I think about it now, I know that this oversharing was probably inappropriate and a trauma response from me.   I no longer do that.   Our first "date"....the day we met....we ended up sitting and talking about everything.   We sat together for 8 hours before we parted that first day.   He just listened.   
He was a knight in shining armor.   So, he didn't really see it in all its "Glory" until many, many years later.   In fact, I'm not sure he was really in tune with how the gaslighting made him feel emotionally.   It wasn't until we had my mom move in with us and lived with it daily.   And, I eventually had to have her move out....that he began to recognize it.    In his family, he would have similar behavior, but no violence.  He comes from a culture that isn't really emotionally available nor would cutting off FOO be at all an option to him....and certainly getting any kind of counseling is taboo.   It was a death from a thousand cuts for him.   He was still in the FOG on my behalf long before it had started to lift for me.   I've had to erect boundaries with my FOO for us both - but I think that is really probably my responsibility alone.    And, my family tried and did pit me and my husband against each other until he realized what they were doing.

Oh wow the date was the day you met. The fact that he listened for 8 hours, and even about that...sounds like it was love at first sight.

I wouldn't call it a trauma response in this scenario. I think that your heart was telling you that this was the right person you needed to be talking to. A trauma response would've been telling anyone right away, but I'm sure that your heart was telling you that he was a safe place...like you just had this gut feeling or instinct that he could be trusted. A lot of romance in that story there.

It also sounds your heart helped open his heart up emotionally.

[NotCryingGlitter]

You said her "final" attempt? Not that it justifies any abuse, but it seems her obsession with sexual things would lead to believe she had been sexually violated as a child.

There has never been the slightest hint from her of anything like that. Nothing I know of the family history would suggest that, either, but who knows? All the history I know has come from her. She is certainly obsessed with sex and always has been.

After that "final" attempt she seemed to give up on trying to manage my marriage, although she would still try to manage me. That said, I considered divorce some years ago and told my FOO. They were so pleased that it made me totally rethink. I talked things through with my husband, we ironed out many of our problems, and remain together. We still have our fair share of issues (who doesn't?), especially as we are both from PD families, but the marriage is stronger and more satisfying for both of us.

Either that, or someone else in her family could be a victim; something seems to have triggered her obsession, because at 14...that's not consensual.

You make a good point...anytime abusive parents seemed please is probably a sign that what they think is the wrong choice. I'm glad you were able to work things out with him.

[NotCryingGlitter]

I would like to hear some more stories, if some additional members would like to share.

I've been thinking about it a lot lately, especially with me trying to hold onto some percent of hope that a certain person will wake up and see that they're missing out on someone who would break down their walls and build a bridge better than anyone else could for them, and so I'm not sure how to best handle the situation, if it hopefully happens.

I guess that there's also that fear that they all would just rather stay away because they don't want to get involved in any of the complications or chaos, so hearing that others made it work provides a little hope. Of course, there's also the fact that some so-called friends are the same way...they think it's better to not get involved than be a support system, even though they're missing out on a friend who would never betray them and always be there for them...which seems to be rare these days.

[NotCryingGlitter]

I still would love to hear some additional perspectives, if someone would like to share? It would help in making decisions in the future.

[moglow]

I'm not sure what you're asking for, to be honest - it sounds like you're planning how to manage friendships around your mother? Not that she was ever truly interested, but I very simply didn't involve mother in my relationships, whether friendships or romantic. I didn't invite anyone to her house while I lived there. After I left, if she happened to be at my house when someone stopped by, she was introduced and included in conversation just like anyone else. I just didn't ask for her advice or what she thought about them or include her in group outings beyond a random lunch or dinner with a friend. I didn't really explain why to others. "We've never been close" was an easy out, plus being around her for even a short while there's a sharp edge that most people pick up on. And she takes up all the oxygen in the room, if you get me. It limits interaction, definitely limits repeat performances.

Basically by the time anyone met her, people were aware it was different. She'd made it painfully clear even early on that I wasn't really wanted, so I learned to live my own life and make my own friends. Her "approval" was usually the kiss of death, as it meant she saw them as an ally and someone she could bond with against me. She loved to make me the butt of her "jokes" particularly if there was a man in the room.

[NotCryingGlitter]

I guess that I'm more of questioning how people handled it, who were not at a place of fully going no contact/limited contact at that time, or who were not able to move out yet. Or, how they handled it if the parents were in close contact with the significant other's family, etc. Maybe I should specify that it would be helpful to hear from people who live in smaller areas, where it's harder to have relationships in secret, or have more privacy in them, because it's hard not to be surrounded by the parents' "supporters". If that helps it make more sense.

[moglow]

I grew up in a very small town, so I get where you're going. I learned to live my own life without apology - you really don't have to justify, argue, defend or explain [JADE] your choices as an adult. I understand living in their house there are certain restrictions and expectations, but respect is still due everyone. Her asking or demanding information doesn't mean she's entitled to the details. You're dating/been out a few times. S/he's a friend. You don't know what if anything will come of it, just enjoying the ride for now. It's too soon to tell. etc.

I wouldn't keep it secret, no, but neither would I request or welcome her [or others] overbearing interference. I had to learn early to zip it and keep conflicting opinions to myself, and depend on others to do the same. Adults deserve privacy, most especially in their more intimate friendships and relationships - anyone who butts in gets what they get, in my world. Probing questions get "the look" and a change of subject or a well placed "why do you ask?" with a smile. I wish I'd learned that decades ago, would have saved me a world of heartache.

Learn medium chill and to tamp down over excitement - she'll be all over that if she's like mine, trying to throw a damper on it.

[NotCryingGlitter]

I grew up in a very small town, so I get where you're going. I learned to live my own life without apology - you really don't have to justify, argue, defend or explain [JADE] your choices as an adult. I understand living in their house there are certain restrictions and expectations, but respect is still due everyone. Her asking or demanding information doesn't mean she's entitled to the details. You're dating/been out a few times. S/he's a friend. You don't know what if anything will come of it, just enjoying the ride for now. It's too soon to tell. etc.

I wouldn't keep it secret, no, but neither would I request or welcome her [or others] overbearing interference. I had to learn early to zip it and keep conflicting opinions to myself, and depend on others to do the same. Adults deserve privacy, most especially in their more intimate friendships and relationships - anyone who butts in gets what they get, in my world. Probing questions get "the look" and a change of subject or a well placed "why do you ask?" with a smile. I wish I'd learned that decades ago, would have saved me a world of heartache.

Learn medium chill and to tamp down over excitement - she'll be all over that if she's like mine, trying to throw a damper on it.

Unfortunately, the situation hasn't happened, but there's a certain someone that's being prayed about -- in hopes that it will. And, if it does, I want to have a plan on how to best prepare. That being said, the friendship interference is already present, so it's always good to hear how other people handled the situations, friendship and more, both before and after moving out.

It's also good to hear how people handled it for the significant others and friends that are already known in the parents' circles. It's "somewhat" easy to have a friendship or relationship with someone they don't know, because you get a fresh start. But if the people are people they already know, or whose family they know, it's helpful to know what steps were taken to introduce those new friendships and relationships to the survivor's world...and keep them on your side in the process of both of you being in the same circles as the parents, circles that buy into the parents' front. And how the friendship and relationship handled the parents' slandering and sabotage attempts.

Especially how any of it was handled before being able to move out.

[moglow]

People will show you who they are, Glitter. Those who fall for slander or sabotage, you kinda need to know about and you'll learn as you go. It doesn't have to be all or nothing with anyone, there's lots of gray area when you're willing to look for it. Main thing is, be who YOU are, not who she says you are. The truth will out, and if someone falls to the wayside due to her machinations that's on them and their choices. It still doesn't change who you are.
You can't possibly prepare for all the possibilities, but being aware will be your friend. Nobody should have to pick sides, but maintain their own boundaries enough to stay out of things that aren't theirs.

[NotCryingGlitter]

People will show you who they are, Glitter. Those who fall for slander or sabotage, you kinda need to know about and you'll learn as you go. It doesn't have to be all or nothing with anyone, there's lots of gray area when you're willing to look for it. Main thing is, be who YOU are, not who she says you are. The truth will out, and if someone falls to the wayside due to her machinations that's on them and their choices. It still doesn't change who you are.
You can't possibly prepare for all the possibilities, but being aware will be your friend. Nobody should have to pick sides, but maintain their own boundaries enough to stay out of things that aren't theirs.

Maybe I'm not being specific enough (sorry, just trying to be careful what I say online). I'm interested in knowing specific steps people took during their interference scenarios. For example, did one of the parents try to sabotage relationships or friendships through calling the person, their family, or stopping by their workplace or home? Possibly trying to get the person to believe you are a liar or are taking advantage of them, etc. How was that situation handled by you (the survivor)? It's very insightful and helpful to hear the various stories of relationship interference and the pros and cons on what to do about it.

[NotCryingGlitter]

Before I give up on this thread, I wanted to ask one more time if any other members would like to share their experience with this issue?