Do you handle enD flying monkey differently?

[Sidney37]

Hi.  I'm expecting the flying monkey call from my enD any time now.  After 2 weeks of the silent treatment from them, he's been calling my DH and texting me wanting to have a call about what is going on.  I know how to handle aunts, uncles, cousins, family friends, etc. who act as flying monkeys.  I let them know it's between me and my mother and change the subject.  I can now handle that pretty easily without JADEing.  It's actually pretty easy with most of them.   The others I don't even talk to.

I feel like the flying monkey call from my enD, who is neck deep in this mess, is different and therefore should be handled differently.  I can't just say it's between me and my mother because it isn't.  Due to his enabling behavior and lack of standing up to her in all of this, it's between
him and me, too.  I'm not calling their house and that affects him, not just her.  I've essentially gone VLC and potentially NC with him as well. 

I think she needs to be in therapy and on a higher dose of meds.  Do I tell him that?  I'm not calling because when I do she is critical, negative and covertly abusive.  She's critical, negative and covertly abusive to him, too.  Do I tell him that?  She made NPD comments to my DD that she found hurtful and very uncomfortable.  Do I tell him?  She violated boundaries that she and he agreed to several years ago or they couldn't visit at our house again.  He wasn't in the room to see/hear them.  Do I tell him that is why my contact decreased significantly after they left?

He's going to ask me directly what is going on, why I'm not calling and what they have done to make me mad.  I'd be lying if I said I was busy and they haven't done anything.   

How do you respond to an enD flying monkey who is trying to make peace between you and my uNPDm who, after much research in the past few quiet weeks, I know I can't continue to talk to with any regularity.  (The book "But It's Your Family: Cutting Ties With Toxic Family Members" was a new read for me this time around and incredibly helpful). 

[illogical]

You might consider corresponding with your enD via email, not text or phone.  This gives you a little more wiggle room when responding.  You can organize your thoughts and not get "caught off guard".

From reading your post, I think the main thing here is your goal in all of this.  What do you want to accomplish?  Do you want a relationship with your mother?  VLC?  NC?  Only if she does xyz?

I would not recommend JADEing to your enD.  I would consider him a pipeline to your mother, i.e., anything you say to him will go straight to her.  Making him the messenger won't change a thing in your relationship with your mother.  If anything, it could make things more complicated by getting his "interpretation" of your thoughts.

If your goal is that you need some space now-- you've not decided on what level of contact-- and you want to buy more time to sort things out, I would send an email stating that you need some time right now and please do not contact you.  You will contact them when you are ready.  It's up to you if you give a reason for this, but I think you know if you recount your mother's behavior as a reason, it's not going to go down well.  But that's your choice.  I would send the email without JADEing and leave it alone.  Then I would take all the time I needed to make my decision on future contact and ignore any and all further attempts on their part to contact me until I was good and ready to deal with them.

Regarding your mother needing therapy and medication, I would not offer my advice.  When, in the past, have they followed your advice?  What makes you think this will be received as helpful at this point?

[Andeza]

If anything, it could make things more complicated by getting his "interpretation" of your thoughts.

This happens so much not just with enDads... At my last job I might tell a trucker "I'm sorry, you don't have a working CB so I don't want you in the gravel pit until daylight. Safety precaution as we have no other way to communicate with you beyond hand signals."

He says okay, goes to wait and tells his boss "Oh they're refusing to load me." Cue my boss calling frantically wondering why we're not loading this truck...

So all your logical, well-reasoned response to your dad may just devolve into "Sidney doesn't want to talk to you." 

[WomanInterrupted]

The best thing I can tell you is to treat him like an Enemy Combatant and use *strict* Medium Chill on him, too.  Anything else is going to get twisted up and boiled down to him telling your mother, "I dunno why she doesn't call."   

Have you ever noticed that with your enabling father?  That he says, "I don't know..." far too often - even when you know he DOES know, and just doesn't want to risk his precious hide?   

Tell your dad only that you are busy.  Busy with what?  The usual.  Never a dull moment around here.  I don't want to bore you.

He may insist  you *can't* be SO busy that you don't have time to call your mooooother.... - I'd tell him only, "I'll see what I can do..."  while committing to *nothing.* 

What you can do is open to interpretation, so if you want to do *nothing* and not call for another few weeks, THAT'S what you could do! 

If he asks what you mean by that, I'd say it was pretty self-explanatory.  You'll see what you can do.   

If he starts telling you *he's* on the hot seat because you're not calling, and he's the one who has to listen to your mother, I might actually say, "Well, you picked her.  That has nothing to do with me."   

That's true, BTW - he DID pick her, and he's stuck with her this long, which means he *gets* something out of their Dysfunctional Dance, which is why he stays.  He probably gives as well as he gets, and somehow *enjoys* the weirdness of their volatile relationship.  He might claim she's abusive, or he can't stand her, but he will *never leave* - just like your mom won't leave him.

And that's THEIR business.  It really does have *nothing* to do with you and how often you call!   

I don't think he'll stay on the phone long, after that - or he may hand the phone to your mother.  If he does, just hang up.  You are not *obligated* to talk to her.   

If your father starts pouring his heart out - poor me, I'm the victim - I'd say only, "Sorry to hear it, but it changes nothing.  I'll call when I can."   

If he tries to lock you down to a date or exact a promise from you - give him neither.  "I said I'd call when I can.  That'll have to be good enough." 

He might throw out *this* show-stopping number, that unNPD Ray used to lob at me all the time:  You're killing your mother!   

Yeah, I'd been hearing that one since I was small, and I must have been doing a pretty shit job of it, since she lived to be 78!   

What I'd say is, "I can't talk to you when you get like that, so I'm ending the call.  Goodbye."   

And do just that - anything from this point forward is probably going to wind up being a circular argument, and you really don't need that.

If he raises his voice, or starts yelling and screaming - end the call.  You do NOT have to listen to that.   

Whether you say, "I can't talk to you when you get like this.  Goodbye." - or just hang up on him is up to you.  Either one is acceptable when somebody starts raising their voice or yelling, like you're 5 and about to run into traffic.   

UnNPD Ray acted as a FMM only once - unBPD Didi was in the hospital again, some more, I didn't visit, so he called me up and started screaming SO loudly that I think parts of Western Europe were complaining!

I was so shocked that I didn't even think to just hang up - instead I told him to STOP YELLING - which only made him yell louder.   

This was the gist:  I need to get over there and FIX Didi because she's depressed.

I was thinking:  she's in a hospital full of doctors.  Let a shrink have at her and leave me out of it. 

And the translation of what Ray said was really, "Get her off my back!  This is YOUR job!  I don't want to deal with her!" 

Instead, I told him I'd see what I could do but it wasn't looking good, and THEN hung up on him as he started to yell again - and then I got angry at myself for listening to him, at all - and promised myself there wouldn't be a repeat, if he called again.  I'd just hang up in his ear.   

You can DO this, Sidney!  You've GOT this!