Housebound and friendless

[mary_poppins]

Hi all.

I'm just posting this question here to understand my PD parents more. I am sure someone here can relate. My parents have always been asocial. They have never really had friends. I remember a very nice, cool guy (my father's friend) who used to come to our home for drinks when I was 5 or something. It's weird that I remember him because it was so long time ago. He felt like a breath of fresh air to me (he was smiling and was very nice/positive). But then he suddenly dissapeared and never heard of him again.
Since that guy, there was no family friend I can remember. There was a lady with a dog who would often come to my parents' place who was also very nice and chill. I never heard from her either. My parents would talk so badly about her behind her back and would even ask her multiple times to bring them stuff from the countryside that is cheaper there (the friend had a house in the city and one in the countryside).

Since that woman would always do stuff for them and visit them but her gestures were not reciprocated, I guesss she must have gotten tired of it. Anyway, that's about it in terms of family friends.

I've never met anyone like my parents who never had any genuine friendship that lasted a signifcant amount of time. Is this a common trait of personality-disordered individuals?

Another trait of my parents is that they are 80% of the time housebound. I've never seen them go out for a significant amount of time (if they go shopping somewhere they'd be back in 2 hours or so). They never travelled as far as I know although they have a car and money. Most of the time, they live in the confines of their small home in the city, cooking, gossiping, and watching TV.

I don't understand how can someone not have needs for socializing and meeting other people outside their family. Or the need to be outside in the fresh air and nature (we have beautiful parks here).
They may have an undiagnosed agoraphobia because each time I tell them to go out, they raise their voice at me as if I criticised them. They justify this by saying they have nowhere to go and nothing to do.

This thing they're doing must be terrible for their mental health. Anyone here have/had similar parents?

[treesgrowslowly]

Yes. I know people like this in my FOO.

I think the question as to whether this is terrible for their mental health or not has a few factors to it.

First, the question from us is that we wonder how they can live like this? Because if we tried to live like this, we would find it very very stressful. Right?

But they are not us. And their ability to get their different needs met, is due to so many factors including their own anxiety and how they cope with it.

People with personality disorder traits are often defensive and unwilling to actually talk about their needs in any sort of helpful way. This leaves the people around them (their relatives, etc...) wondering what is going on for them. As you said, they start to feel criticized if someone tries to talk to them about their lifestyle. For them, it is probably more stressful to change than to keep doing what they are doing, and do what they are familiar with.

From what I have learned about people with PD / narc traits, they live with a lot of negative thoughts and moods. My own understanding is that yes, deep down, they have needs to socialize, but their negativity is persistent.

Socially, they will often get defensive and argumentative with people, instead of keeping things positive. Few people want to stick around for that over and over. So to answer your question, I suspect it is common for people with PD traits to not have any real friends. Their negativity wears people down.

I don't think they know how to go out into the world and explore it. Which is why as you said, they might go shopping but they are back within a few hours. My narcissistic FOO members do not like having to deal with other people unless those people are giving them attention. 

The quote you have from Mary Poppins is about feeling excited and hopeful about exploring what goes on outside. It is something a person will say when they feel curious and open. When someone has been living with their PD traits their whole life, I am not surprised that they find it easier to just keep staying home.

As you said, we may not know how many other people live like this, because we are going to know about it mostly when it is our own FOO members. For every 10 people their age who are off having adventures and new experiences with taking classes, going for walks, seeing sights, travelling, there is likely a good number of people who are at home like your parents are.

You can relate to the people their age who are still out doing things, because this is probably how you are. You can relate to having more social events in your life. As we age we realize how little we might have in common with our own parents. Just because they are our parents doesn't mean we can relate to how they live. I have no plans to live like my parents live. It would not be good for my mental health, to live without going outside.

Trees

[Pepin]

My father has a litter trail of discarded friends who failed to comply with his inflated ego.  The ones that stay close are the ones who stand to gain something financially and nothing more.

As for CN MIL....quite a different story and more like what you mentioned above.  It was shocking to me how much time she spent indoors - and I am an introvert so I think I'm pretty well versed on wanting to stay put in my own home!  But I even I need to go outside in the yard where it is quiet, or walk around the neighborhood, visit the library, etc.  CN MIL?  Hell no.  I think the reason she didn't go out was because she was afraid to have her fragile power tested.  She couldn't handle anyone outside of her family network knowing who she was.   

[Hilltop]

My inlaws have spent their retirement sitting at home.  However maybe mentioning it to your parents may come across as a criticism.  If they are happy to live that way so be it.  If they aren't saying they want it to be different maybe let them be.  The inlaws get upset if we go out, so most of the time we have to not say anything about what we are doing. I find that odd but I think my mother in law wants to go out more and my father in law doesn't.

PD's are tiring though. The negativity and drama is tiring.  I wonder if families that have these PD's and these patterns are more likely to retreat because life is tiring around all that negativity.  It just drains the energy.

[moglow]

Sounds like my mother. I've never known her to have what I'd consider friends. There were random couples my parents would have in for dinner from time to time but they never really socialized beyond that. When Dad passed then all her siblings were eventually gone, mother really retreated. I think she had it in her head somehow that "of course" we'd visit and somehow look after her, but it was never encouraged and there certainly weren't invitations even for holidays. When we invited ourselves, she made up excuses that "now's not a good time" or she "has too much going on" until everyone stopped trying. Her house has a huge front porch and nice little yard - as far as I know she never goes out there and never bothered even to put chairs or a swing on the porch. All curtains and shades in the house are drawn tight lest someone somehow see inside. I don't get it but I don't have to. Her choices, not mine.

I suspect her voices are all she needs and she can't cope with more. She's certainly never seemed interested in others to any degree or than objects of gossip or ridicule.

[Boat Babe]

Yes. I know people like this in my FOO.

I think the question as to whether this is terrible for their mental health or not has a few factors to it.

First, the question from us is that we wonder how they can live like this? Because if we tried to live like this, we would find it very very stressful. Right?

But they are not us. And their ability to get their different needs met, is due to so many factors including their own anxiety and how they cope with it.

People with personality disorder traits are often defensive and unwilling to actually talk about their needs in any sort of helpful way. This leaves the people around them (their relatives, etc...) wondering what is going on for them. As you said, they start to feel criticized if someone tries to talk to them about their lifestyle. For them, it is probably more stressful to change than to keep doing what they are doing, and do what they are familiar with.

From what I have learned about people with PD / narc traits, they live with a lot of negative thoughts and moods. My own understanding is that yes, deep down, they have needs to socialize, but their negativity is persistent.

Socially, they will often get defensive and argumentative with people, instead of keeping things positive. Few people want to stick around for that over and over. So to answer your question, I suspect it is common for people with PD traits to not have any real friends. Their negativity wears people down.

I don't think they know how to go out into the world and explore it. Which is why as you said, they might go shopping but they are back within a few hours. My narcissistic FOO members do not like having to deal with other people unless those people are giving them attention. 

The quote you have from Mary Poppins is about feeling excited and hopeful about exploring what goes on outside. It is something a person will say when they feel curious and open. When someone has been living with their PD traits their whole life, I am not surprised that they find it easier to just keep staying home.

As you said, we may not know how many other people live like this, because we are going to know about it mostly when it is our own FOO members. For every 10 people their age who are off having adventures and new experiences with taking classes, going for walks, seeing sights, travelling, there is likely a good number of people who are at home like your parents are.

You can relate to the people their age who are still out doing things, because this is probably how you are. You can relate to having more social events in your life. As we age we realize how little we might have in common with our own parents. Just because they are our parents doesn't mean we can relate to how they live. I have no plans to live like my parents live. It would not be good for my mental health, to live without going outside.

Trees

You have just described my mother Trees.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi Boat Babe,

It is sad but it does seem to describe what we see in defensive people.

I think there are a few ways this affects their (now grown) children. (such as myself). I think it is so important to see the differences between our traits and their traits, so that we can see their personality with as little fog as possible.

Trees 

[mary_poppins]

Thank you, all for contributing to this post. Sorry for taking so long time to respond. I wanted to think more about this trait of PD parents and I finally realized what's going on.
Like some of you here pointed out, PD parents are more comfortable staying in doors where they have their family and connections with those people they can control. It makes so much sense to me.
I haven't understood why the need to stay on doors all the time before you pointed it out.

Example: sometimes my mother does grocery shopping and has fights with the sales person because of the high prices of the produce. She doesn't like the fact that they increase the prices so she can spend more.
But she doesn't consider the fact that the grocery shop owner needs to up the prices to get more money and sustain his business. He has a family to feed and so upping the prices makes sense to me.

But no, mother needs to make a whole drama about that 'jerk' grocery shop owner who doesn't agree with her.
One time I saw my father yelling at a shop assistant and treating them like shit. He was yelling about the price and why is it so high. He could go somewhere where he could find cheaper products, you know? (why doesn't he go then? ha ha) I felt so embarassed to witness the appaling treatment from my father of the sales person.

Trees: I get it. They probably do get their needs (social needs) met from someplace that is not outside the home. I see my parents getting their entire needs met from their 2 sons. They invested a lot of money in them. Each time they cook during the weekend it is because their 2 sons will come to visit them and they need to have cooked meals prepared. My mother even fixes herself up for her sons, I swear. It is a bit creepy to watch how she dies her hair, cleans her face and sometimes puts on some elegant clothes before her sons come to lunch/dinner. I suspect there is a bit of emotional incest going on..It's not normal to fix yourself up for your adult son, unless there are some romantic feelings involved (I hope you're not disgusted by this, I just say it like I see it).

You also said that I project how I am on them-yes. I do expect them to have similar social needs as I have. It is a flawed way of relating to them and it probably stems from trauma bond. I think deep down, if I believe they have the same needs as I have, they may be like me, so, normal. And if they're like me, they're not PDs and I can actually have a relationship with them. I expect them to be like me because, I want them to be normal. It is still hard for me to let them go.

Pepin: You actually inspired me to understand why they are like this. I do believe that these people are afraid of outside world because they're afraid of having their fragile power tested. I don't get this in them but if they need to fight to maintain their fragile ego in a balance state, then, going out means the ego will suffer due to all the situations they may enter that might trigger them. Out there in the world, people won't cater to their needs and will often say 'no' to them or ignore them (like my mother's grocery shop keeper) which is probably hell to them. So, thanks for the insight.

Moglow: wow, your mother staying inside her house with shades and curtains drawn is very telling about her PD personality. Mine does the same, she has her curtains and shades drawn at all times. Her room is dark. Yeah, maybe she's afraid of other people seeing in her room (she lives on the 1st floor) but common on, how many people are actually interested in looking into someone's apartment? I know I'm not, I just mind my own business when I walk past people's houses/apartments. If there is a beautiful house I do look sometimes since I love architecture and nice-looking homes.

I also noticed regarding the having no friends part that, yes, people get tired of them easily and they leave. My father used to have his brother in law call every day. They had a lovely chat each morning and, after a while I noticed he doesn;t talk to him anymore. (yes, I've lived with them long enough to notice these changes) I asked him what happened between him and his brother in law. He said: "Well, if he's an idiot and doesn't even bother to call his brother in law, what can I do?" He calls him an idiot plus other names that may not be good to bring up here. Well, no wonder he doesn't wanna talk to you, dad. You're not a good guy and you talk crap about him. That's their mentality. People lose touch with them because they are: stupid, loser, have a mental illness (this is what they thought about me when I went VLC-NC long time ago) or other mental issues.

Man, I feel sorry for them sometimes. It must be sad to live life hating people so much and thinking the worst about them on a consistent basis (including their adult children).

[NarcKiddo]

My parents mostly have long-term acquaintances. Without fail they speak ill of people they know behind their backs. My mother does to some extent help other people but it seems mostly transactional. They used to be older and she would ask them outright to be remembered in their will. Now she is older and the friends are getting younger, presumably so they can help as my parents become more frail. If my mother has got closer to somebody over the years that friendship has usually ended.

[JustKat]

My parents were like that. My Nmother was very antisocial. She hated/resented every person she came in contact with, so she had no friends. She never left the house other than for trips to the grocery store. The only adults she socialized with were family members. Sometimes an aunt or grandmother would come to visit, but no one else ever entered our home and my parents never went out together.

My father had friends at work but didn't socialize with his co-workers outside of the office. If he tried to socialize with neighbors my mother would get angry with him and order him back inside. Nmother always refused to go anywhere with him so he would take me, not because I was the favorite child, but because I was the oldest. Unfortunately, that gave me the false impression that I was somehow special to him because he took me to concerts and movies. Turns out I wasn't special at all. I was just the only person he had.

When my Nmother died she had no one. I was NC and didn't show up to visit her in the hospital (and have NO regrets). From what I understand, enFather and GC sister were the only ones who visited and the only ones with her at the end. There was no funeral, as there was no one to invite. My father had her cremated and scattered at sea.

I think watching their lives made me grow into the complete opposite. I'm friendly to everyone and treasure my friends.