The toll of chronic invalidation and abuse

[Invisiblewoman]

Invisiblewoman, are you in touch with your brother? I am curious because what you said resembles what I feel like I'm going through with my Nsis, with being in contact with her again to deal with the things of my grands and mom. After at least 5 years, I strangely feel that familiar 'comfort' around her, though I wonder when the other shoe will drop. And then, I also wonder because I let her have it pretty good 5 years ago (before I exited from the FOO), if that will keep her in check. Because then I can deal with the here and now better. Honestly, she is in her glory and element when making the plans to hang out and then with hanging out, so I wonder if letting her do things in that capacity could work out.

It's almost as exhausting trying to figure out how to keep someone that 'close' to you (in blood) away from you forever, than going ghost for good. It's because of these events that will inevitably come up and the conflicting feelings with the  familiar 'comfort' thing.

Thus, be happy to be a black sheep.

I am no contact now. I know I am trauma bonded and there is just no fixing it, and no need for me to continue being in touch.

I feel like the more I am in touch, the more history is doomed to repeat itself.

working on being happy more now.

[Invisiblewoman]

Treesgrowslowly and Loverofpeace,

I want to thank both of you for your validating replies. It means everything towards my steps towards healing.

I've been no contact 1 year now and I feel I can't go back because I will be sucked back in, and I think in all honesty my risk for harm is high.


I noticed one thing about recovery from PTSD and Cptsd is that memories can come and go, and at certain points you may focus on one part of your memory, like your mind has brought up some old memory because you're more ready to handle it emotionally.

If I examine negative patterns of the  past I'll be better equipped to avoid them in the future.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi LoverofPeace,

That is a great name. It says it all in a way - we love peace!!

I'm coming around to see that my relatives were discarders. I've come to learn that families differ in terms of how much discarding they do. What I mean by that is, how much energy do they put into keeping us "in" vs. tossing us out.

My relatives discard people. There's a callousness to their 'vibe' as it were -where 'family' doesn't really matter. The FM's can't even be bothered to keep anything FM going! It's hard to explain, other than to say that this is a group of people who go through life ghosting each other, and see it as "normal".

Way before we had this word "ghosting" in the popular media, it was what my relatives were doing with each other. My family system was like a store where no one shows up for their shifts. Its all so odd, when you look at what is 'supposed' to happen in families. there was a very "does anybody work here?" vibe to all of it.

Patrick Teahan (social worker, makes online videos on family dysfunction) talks about families where the parents have this "I just work here" vibe and that really resonated with me!

Like you said, the upside to this, is that if we are not included, we're also not included in all the drama and chaos going on for them.

So then funerals were confusing for them, to say the least. All the normal processes that you'd expect in a family, were confusing for them. It was just this strange place, where people ghosted each other, and it was like no one taught them how to be a family.

I hear you about stepping in to address things after a family member has passed away. I agree with you about none of us need to ever judge what we did regarding contact / no contact. We each have our story and even though our FOO systems rely on the same set of dysfunctional coping mechanisms (DARVO, rug sweeping etc...) every situation is unique. Our decision to go NC is based on so many factors. What works for one person may not work for the other person and that's ok.

I tried VLC, but looking back now, they had already discarded me. My VLC was met with "fine, then we won't include you". But I've heard from many others over the years for whom VLC or LC works.

Personally, I think LC didn't work in my FOO because they punish people for breaking the rules, and my LC broke their rules. But in other families, LC is acceptable.

I wish I had started out LC with my IL's because that was a system where the rule is that you don't change. So if I had started out with LC, my LC would just be seen as "who I am". But since I went from high contact to lower contact, I broke their rule which was "you don't change your level of contact with us once you've established it". They were deeply offended when I decided to do 2 hour visits instead of 4 hour visits (which lowered the contact). Just that small change was unacceptable to them!

Its all fascinating, how odd this all is isn't it? I share this because I know that with all our various situations, it helps to hear about our different experiences. This forum is where I learned why my LC and VLC and NC went the way that it did. I'm forever grateful for this forum!!

Trees

[treesgrowslowly]

Treesgrowslowly and Loverofpeace,

I want to thank both of you for your validating replies. It means everything towards my steps towards healing.

I've been no contact 1 year now and I feel I can't go back because I will be sucked back in, and I think in all honesty my risk for harm is high.


I noticed one thing about recovery from PTSD and Cptsd is that memories can come and go, and at certain points you may focus on one part of your memory, like your mind has brought up some old memory because you're more ready to handle it emotionally.

If I examine negative patterns of the  past I'll be better equipped to avoid them in the future.

Hi Invisiblewoman,

My go to resource for what you mentioned here (about memories) is Pete Walker's book C PTSD from surviving to thriving. I still re-read his section on managing flashbacks when I need a booster!

Through all I've read and learned about managing PTSD, his book keeps standing out for me. Back when I went NC, Flashbacks were not understood at all when I started going to therapy. None of the counsellors I met back then had any idea that I was having flashbacks so often, even though flashbacks are a very common symptom of PTSD, and manageable if the symptom gets recognized. I was misdiagnosed with depression, even though what I really had, was PTSD with a lot of flashbacks to process.

I think you might really like his book if you have not checked it out already because he says what you say here too - we get stronger emotionally as we get further from the abuser, and when we are a safe distance from the abuse, we can process more of the PTSD.

A lot of people have caught up to what he wrote about years ago - that we are in a state during a flashback, where our body doesn't feel safe, there's a threat, and we need to learn how to manage this or else it will be very much a legacy from our childhood abuse that plagues our adult life. Going into that flashback state needs to be understood. Not dismissed as "nothing" or "oh thats in the past" which is what clumsy therapists still do with us. Managing flashbacks were key to my recovery.

My recovery would have been less terrifying had I had this info before I went NC. I didn't even know I was having flashbacks until I found his book! Which was years and years into my NC!

Over time, the flashbacks are less scary. But that happens as you build your practice for surfing them. A big shift happened for me when I stopped feeling bad for not knowing how to surf the waves of memories / flashbacks.

I had to teach myself not to feel bad for not knowing how to surf the waves of grief and fear - no one taught us. After that realization took root, I could water it, nurture it, and let it grow. Hence my screen name lol.

Therapy with someone who knows how to help clients with flashbacks woulda been so helpful for me back when I went NC. I am glad that unlike 20 years ago, there is way more information for us now about how to recover from abuse and how to manage PTSD.

Eventually, waves washed over me, realizations that I would never ever get what I needed from those people. And this helped me to know why I sensed danger when I thought about re-engaging with them. When I was 1 year in like you are, I was hit with one wave of yearning after another, all to do with needing them to become safe. For me. All a child wants is for her parents to be safe to be around. No matter what her age.   

And in year 1 my mind would just go into this numb state when I tried to convince myself that these are not safe people.

The part of me that KNEW that these are not people I can safely be around, had to be given time to grow. She was in there, but had been silenced for so long (by guess who?). I would say that its really after that first year that our body registers safety as safety more often - which is why so much advice for us is about finding things that ground us and make us feel safe.

For me, once it registered cognitively, psychologically AND somatically, that my parents are NOT safe for me to be around, I turned a corner and so I hear you - the corner you are turning is a big one. You go for it! There's good stuff waiting for you!

If we don't grieve that fact, we can remain quite stuck. If we do allow it to register (slowly, mine took several years) then eventually, we individuate from them in a way that was never possible when we were kids. We get the "I'm truly safe now" feeling that we have been waiting a lifetime to feel. Having a therapist to explore emotional safety with is very helpful. That would be my advice on how to make the process less confusing, is to work with a therapist who knows how to make you feel truly safe. That for me, was like going to the gym - working the "I'm safe now" muscle so that it grows. I always had a part inside me that knew my parents were not safe - what I needed was to build trust with that part, and let her talk to me, and let her anger at her parents have a safe place to get expressed. All of that is much easier if you've got a therapist who knows how to guide that process.

The videos from Patrick Teahan on inner child work (all on youtube for free) gave me much needed language and validation. My inner child knows a lot, I "just" had to listen to her. Your inner child knows a lot too.

Trees

[LoverofPeace]

I am no contact now. I know I am trauma bonded and there is just no fixing it, and no need for me to continue being in touch.

I feel like the more I am in touch, the more history is doomed to repeat itself.

working on being happy more now.

Hi Invisiblewoman,

On the contrary, I feel like you did fix it by being no contact. On top of that, you're wise enough to follow that with wanting to work on being more happy.

I know we can't stop thinking about them altogether, but I believe it's more about not ruminating about them. Lord knows that's been my issue of late. The frustrating part is for my years of practically no contact, I put the FOO-- particularly the Ngrandmom, Nmom, and Nsis--in the rearview mirror. Now I've had to be back in contact due to Ngrand's/Nmom's funerals. God bless and rest them, but I'm finding myself having to go through putting boundaries in place while dealing with this Nsis about family things.

I want to thank both of you for your validating replies. It means everything towards my steps towards healing.

When I read your post, I understood how that traumatic, offensive-to-defensive, isolating feeling is, especially when it feels like there isn't anyone for support to co-sign with you about the truth. How is that possible that it's so difficult to have that? I have gone through the same type of things.

I will give the benefit of the doubt with some family members, as they don't necessarily know the deal with my nuclear family's issues. All they do is go by what they're told by that person, when I think they should question why this person is always making all the moves and doing too much talking.

My nephew actually used the word 'narcissist' when I discussed the Nsis with him, even though I purposely left the word out because I didn't want that to get back to her (you know how the experts say that would only create more chaos). I wanted to explain to him what his Mom, who is another sister (she was the original scapegoat who was very sweet, and had to go NC-she has since gone to heaven) went through, because I could see him struggling when she first passed. So I told him why she used to have a lot of anxiety. While he loves his Mom dearly and thanked me because he said it helped to clear up the questions in his mind, he also basically accepts narcissists as a whole. He didn't say it verbatim, but he acts like he doesn't have any issues with it. Sometimes I think he even admires it. And he's a gentle soul himself, so go figure. Listen, I know narcs are a fact of life since the begining of time, but I have to say that human nature is something else. 

With all that said, your thanks wasn't needed but I am glad to know it helps in your healing. Trust that it helps me, too. And this is what I hoped to be the end goal for us all in this unfortunate situation we find ourselves in. This can put us on the road to healing.

And you mentioned not getting sucked back in. Exactly! Let me say that with all that work with my NC or VLC and yet with the event of my Ngrandmom and Nmom's passing, and then meeting up about tying up those loose ends (which I'm seeing will take time); those things didn't add up to nearly as much time as my NC/VLC. And yet, I'm feeling sucked back in! I don't blame myself because these are things that obviously have to be dealt with, but that's also why I'm still seeking how people who have gone NC avoids these type of things? I'm asking in general, because each individual and their specific family issues are different. I just wish I had all the answers to see mine through. That's why being labeled a black sheep by others really makes your life simpler by it automatically taking care of the avoidance part for you. And what's left? Working on ourselves toward increased peace!

And with that said...

Hi LoverofPeace,

That is a great name. It says it all in a way - we love peace!!

Hi and thank you, Treesgrowslowly! You completely get it! I meant to say how much I love your name, too. As soon as I saw it, I thought about myself as that tree who is growing all the time. And though it's slowly, it's surely. Of course, that means for you, Invisiblewoman, and others out there who are in this boat. Even if we swing back and forth on that pendulum, at least we swing harder on the growth side.

My go to resource for what you mentioned here (about memories) is Pete Walker's book C PTSD from surviving to thriving. I still re-read his section on managing flashbacks when I need a booster!

I hope to check this out one of these days. Lord knows I have gotten so many self-help books that's left unfinished, or unread altogether, but I don't want to miss out on a gem. I just have to re-learn how to focus. I used to have focus of steel and can't seem to get it back...yet. Though I know I'm responsible for my own life, I know it's a culmination of all this narc stuff that's affected me. The more I was determined to concentrate on the good, the more the 'narc sharks' kept biting until my mind just couldn't take it anymore! 

Personally, I think LC didn't work in my FOO because they punish people for breaking the rules, and my LC broke their rules. But in other families, LC is acceptable.

My Nsis is the one who likes to punish for 'breaking the rules'. It's sickening, because everyone else might be disappointed, but it's on a normal level. With her, she takes all the peace away (or has tried to) for living my life the way I want to. And who does that to someone who is trying to live peacefully? It's truly crazy because this one person makes me have to make sure to keep my guard up. I admit I'm not good at doing that because I'm naturally a loving, nuturing, communicative person. I'm not perfect by any means, but perfectly friendly. And I have to think on my toes on how that can be taken advantage of with people like her around. If you're dealing with more than one of that type in your family, they are doing you a favor with making NC as the only option.

Thank God for prayer, meditation, and forums like these!

This is so cathartic. Thanks and God bless you both!  🙏🏽

[Invisiblewoman]

When I read your post, I understood how that traumatic, offensive-to-defensive, isolating feeling is, especially when it feels like there isn't anyone for support to co-sign with you about the truth. How is that possible that it's so difficult to have that? I have gone through the same type of things.

Exactly, and it feels like I am trying to find people that I can explain it to and get a sense of validation, that keeps steering me towards a healthier way of thinking, beyond what my family system tried to instill.

I held onto a friend from high school who I explained it to and he got it the first time, and people like that are now my friends.

A lot comes up for me still about all the things they said, and my wishing it wasn't real.

[Invisiblewoman]

The very nature of narcissistic abuse is to put you in a defensive reaction/ response so they can use that against you.

It's designed to suck you back in because you're left wondering why they'd say that. If they can keep you off kilter and in contact they have won.

I did a good thing by going no contact and I did it at the right time this time. 

As for the things they did and the lies they told I can be there all day wondering. They're not sorry though.

When it comes up and strong emotions come up I've started practicing slowing down and just sitting with the emotion. They'd like to see me spin in circles so I decided if things come up I deserve gentle care. I don't need to rehash or repeat what happened. It's just it happened and it makes me upset and there is no right and wrong.

Losing family is hard. I sometimes wish I could sort it out but they don't apologize and they will never think any differently other than what I did wrong. With a narcissist there is no meeting halfway.  They will punish you for what they did wrong and are too far gone to recognize the harm they have caused.

[LoverofPeace]

I just want to stop ruminating. My Nsis sent a text today (well, Friday), and I just gave a simple thumbs up. Then I went about my day and did good not dwelling on her. Yet, my thoughts came back to it by evening time.

It sounds crazy, but though I don't have a solid plan, I  know I am looking to wean her off by boring her.

Like I said, it's crazy. But our mother just passed (and the grandmother only a year ago), so how do I simply go ghost right away? It feels even harder now because so many family members have passed and I am hoping she isn't panicking almost like a child = losing supply + getting older.

She's done most of the heavy lifting with all the Grandmom's and Mom's affairs--that I ended up letting her because of their making her, the golden child, the P.O.A. Plus, her abusive ways/their scapegoating me that I wasn't going to keep putting up with. But now, emotionally, it feels like a grown child I am trying to keep at a distance.

And then there's that 'family feel' at the same time, like you were saying.

'God' luck to us on this bizarre journey when it comes to them.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi LoverofPeace,

It sounds like you are doing 'grey rock' with your sister, which is well known in our community here. recently, I started learning about yellow rock from Dr. Ramani.

I know you said you're kinda feeling overwhelmed and I keep recommending more books and videos to read and watch lol! I don't mean to - and believe me, I definitely had periods where I took breaks from ALL my many self-help books and videos. We need those breaks - they are totally totally valid!

Yellow rock is just a grey rock with a smiley face on it. So like, the thumbs up you did is a yellow-y grey rock cause you sent a positive vibe - "thumbs up sister. Gotta go now".

Your post here reminded me of something we talked about years ago here on the boards - that helped me a lot. When there's someone in our life who is like your Nsis, sometimes the idea of going NC with them is just not sitting right with us. For various reasons. Like you wrote about - you feel worried about the timing, that you'd be ghosting your sister right after she had 2 people in the family pass away. 

At the same time, you do need distance from her and you feel it. She keeps trying to draw you in to her world, and you know that right now, that is not what you need. Dealing with her sounds stressful.

What would she do if you said "I know its a rough time, but I need to take a break from phone calls, texts and emails for the next 2 weeks. I'll text you on May XX to check in and see how you are doing".

Some of us were able to do this and instead of feeling the 'all or nothing' pressure of NC, we just hit pause and found a way to get a few weeks "off" from contact with them. Nothing permanent, just a few weeks vacation from their texts or phone calls etc.

Now I know, from being surrounded by emotionally abusive people my entire life, this goes over like a lead ballon with most emotionally immature people. So it really depends if you want to go there or not.

The other way to do that is to just leave more time in between her texts and your replies. That is what I did with my Nmother. I weaned her off of her dependency on me by deciding I would allow ONE visit a month and that was it. That was all she got.

I did not tell her this new plan. I knew exactly what she'd do if I did. She'd rage at me, and make it her life's mission to see me twice that month (just to spite me). If I had told her "mom I'll see you twice a month from now on" she would rage and say "no you won't. You're going to see me 3 times a month and that is that". So its all about control. It's about having control over us. Whatever boundary we set, they need to blast through it. If you tell your sister "I can only text you once a week for the next while" it is not as if she's going to turn into some reasonable, mature adult right? She'll do what ever it is you know her to do when told she can't get her way.

We get scared because we know how they behave when they are mad. They punish people for putting up normal healthy boundaries. Its perfectly normal to go 2 weeks without seeing or hearing from an adult sibling. But of course narc siblings don't know what's 'normal'. They only know what they want. That's why you feel like you are dealing with a child.

In my experience, the rumination was fear. I was worried about what that person would do if I told them I needed a break from their texts or phone calls etc.

Is there a way for you to reduce the amount of contact she has with you right now? Is the contact (even a text is contact) daily? Cause I think the rumination you're dealing with is a stress response. A very understandable one. What do you think?

Some N's do get bored of us if we grey rock. If she's been known to get bored with you before and leave you alone when you don't engage, then hopefully that is what she does this time too. You need space to grieve and to get the break that it sounds like you really are due for! She's stressing you out. Narc stress is real. I hope you get a breather soon.

Trees

[Invisiblewoman]

I just want to stop ruminating. My Nsis sent a text today (well, Friday), and I just gave a simple thumbs up. Then I went about my day and did good not dwelling on her. Yet, my thoughts came back to it by evening time.

It sounds crazy, but though I don't have a solid plan, I  know I am looking to wean her off by boring her.

Like I said, it's crazy. But our mother just passed (and the grandmother only a year ago), so how do I simply go ghost right away? It feels even harder now because so many family members have passed and I am hoping she isn't panicking almost like a child = losing supply + getting older.

She's done most of the heavy lifting with all the Grandmom's and Mom's affairs--that I ended up letting her because of their making her, the golden child, the P.O.A. Plus, her abusive ways/their scapegoating me that I wasn't going to keep putting up with. But now, emotionally, it feels like a grown child I am trying to keep at a distance.

And then there's that 'family feel' at the same time, like you were saying.

'God' luck to us on this bizarre journey when it comes to them.

That's the hard part because they sure know how to put you in a defensive space! Then you have a need to want to hold them to their actions because you don't want them to get the upper hand with lying and being destructive. I am doing different things like meditating when that comes up for me, just recognizing it, but giving myself a rest when I feel overwhelmed by it too.

My go to resource for what you mentioned here (about memories) is Pete Walker's book C PTSD from surviving to thriving. I still re-read his section on managing flashbacks when I need a booster!

Through all I've read and learned about managing PTSD, his book keeps standing out for me. Back when I went NC, Flashbacks were not understood at all when I started going to therapy. None of the counsellors I met back then had any idea that I was having flashbacks so often, even though flashbacks are a very common symptom of PTSD, and manageable if the symptom gets recognized. I was misdiagnosed with depression, even though what I really had, was PTSD with a lot of flashbacks to process.

I think you might really like his book if you have not checked it out already because he says what you say here too - we get stronger emotionally as we get further from the abuser, and when we are a safe distance from the abuse, we can process more of the PTSD.

A lot of people have caught up to what he wrote about years ago - that we are in a state during a flashback, where our body doesn't feel safe, there's a threat, and we need to learn how to manage this or else it will be very much a legacy from our childhood abuse that plagues our adult life. Going into that flashback state needs to be understood. Not dismissed as "nothing" or "oh thats in the past" which is what clumsy therapists still do with us. Managing flashbacks were key to my recovery.

My recovery would have been less terrifying had I had this info before I went NC. I didn't even know I was having flashbacks until I found his book! Which was years and years into my NC!

I feel that's what is happening; I am having emotional flashbacks. I am working through the trauma because I don't want it to happen again. My family insists it's all a lie after telling me they think my nmom was abusive, and they are trying to control the narrative and even suggest I am suffering from psychosis. Now they're surprised I won't talk to them. They think they're doing me a favour.

I had a terrible realization the other day; My aunt insisted my mom was complicit in a sexual abuse case with me. She may not be telling the truth, as there are other factors that happened that indicate otherwise. She literally called my mom a pedophile and said a bunch of really nasty things, and then tried to suggest she almost gave my address to her because "I deserved her" for when I stood up to my superintendent for treating me badly. It was twisted into something I had made up, that they then felt entitled to expose my address for to "teach me a lesson" or to show me I am so bad I deserve my abuser. They get off on that shit and need to keep that kind of drama going whether it's real or not.

I didn't do anything wrong with my superintendent; in fact I think my instincts were correct and my negative experience with him was really all his responsibility. I shouldn't be responsible for someone's behaviour once they have become so inebriated that they can't control their actions. But they wanted it to be something I lied about; they needed to drag my character to control  me and to drag me back into the drama. They were big on exposing my mom for lies as well, but don't you dare point out their lying.

That's what's so frustrating about them. Just so toxic, yet they are accusing me of the same.

[LoverofPeace]

It sounds like you are doing 'grey rock' with your sister, which is well known in our community here. recently, I started learning about yellow rock from Dr. Ramani.

Hi Trees,

Dr. Ramani is my girl! I love her videos/advice. She makes a lot of sense. I do also know about grey-rocking. And I like your description of the yellowish rock. Yup, something like I did with that thumbs up emoji.

I know you said you're kinda feeling overwhelmed and I keep recommending more books and videos to read and watch lol! I don't mean to - - -

Lol. It's not the recommendations itself, the overwhelm is the totality of everything that includes trying to get back to work after the last job didn't work out. And that wasn't because I wasn't doing a great job, it was because of a narcissist who was in charge. Because of her and some others, they'd been firing people before and after me. Really obnoxious place, it was. She actually raged on me and I raised my voice telling her this wasn't going to work out. There's more to that, but I kind of veered off here, please excuse. My good Lord, they are everywhere,  though.

We get scared because we know how they behave when they are mad. They punish people for putting up normal healthy boundaries. Its perfectly normal to go 2 weeks without seeing or hearing from an adult sibling. But of course narc siblings don't know what's 'normal'. They only know what they want. That's why you feel like you are dealing with a child.

Fear--yes, and no.

I am trying to be more cautious when applying what I learned about them from people like Dr. Ramani. As in, trying not to give them supply. That's so tricky not to do.

And I feel like I tried everything, including NC for years until these unfortunate events put a neon sign on my grey rock. So now it's the fear of what else more can I do? I hate to say it, but when she physically attacked me some years ago, I even T.K.O.'d her with one punch. So, I have no problem backing her up, but I do at the same time because I am being forced to have to fight as a grown woman! And as I said, I want my peace. Not have to go backwards like we're 11 and 12 again.

And even then, I shouldn't have to have gone through it. In time, I realized it wasn't me nor normal sibling rivalry. She has NPD. And also, I believe I know why and how. I might write about it one day, but it's too much to unpack right now.

So, in getting her off me with packing that knockout punch worked for awhile and even now she'll stop at a certain point; I know it's because of that. But strangely, I  remember her facial expression and now I know it was that I gave her supply (this was before I learned what all this was about). And I can 'see' her feelers coming out again in this day and time.

Something told me this was going to happen once the Ngrandmom and Nmom passed. Because she'd have some serious 'ammo' again.  Not that she didn't love and care for them. But I'm sure I don't have to elaborate on that, unlike I would have to with people who don't have a clue.

By the way, part of my problem with ruminating is I am an overthinker on things. That's how my brain (over) works. This is my make-up since birth. But with a situation like this, it just makes it worse.

When my focus gets better-- and it is getting there via meditation, spiritual teachings, breathing exercises, body exercise, and eating better--I should be able to sit still enough to read again! I have a Kindle library of self-help books waiting on me, but perhaps I can look at your recommendations one day, too. In the meantime, I  hope to post here more, as it really helps to be amongst people who understand.

I feel that's what is happening; I am having emotional flashbacks.

Hi Invisiblewoman,

Yes, this has been happening to me over time. And do you ladies ever start frowning/ getting angry and even fuss under your breath as if you're going through that scenario again? That tends to be a part of it. It's also PTSD or full-blown CPTSD.

I had a terrible realization the other day; My aunt insisted my mom was complicit in a sexual abuse case with me. She may not be telling the truth, as there are other factors that happened that indicate otherwise. She literally called my mom a pedophile and said a bunch of really nasty things, and then tried to suggest she almost gave my address to her because "I deserved her" for when I stood up to my superintendent for treating me badly. It was twisted into something I had made up, that they then felt entitled to expose my address for to "teach me a lesson" or to show me I am so bad I deserve my abuser. They get off on that shit and need to keep that kind of drama going whether it's real or not.

Man, oh man, who does that to someone who's supposed to be a loved one? Your aunt needs help. Why would she say or do these things to you?

May I ask if you still have to run into this super?

It's a strange world with strange people in it. And that starts with family dysfunction in a lot of households.

Like the famous painter Frieda Kahlo said, "I hope the exit is joyful-and I hope never to return." That's how I feel once God calls me home. In the meantime, I've got peace to fight for on this Earth.

Goodnight. May God continue to bless us. 

[Invisiblewoman]

Man, oh man, who does that to someone who's supposed to be a loved one? Your aunt needs help. Why would she say or do these things to you?

She told me my mom lied about the entire history to her new partner, and entirely made up an alternative reality to cover the real story. It appears my aunt doesn't truly know all the conversations that went on between my mom and her partner, and may have come up with this explanation because she couldn't get my mom to talk about the abuse in front of her partner. They decided my mom was lying because she asked them to stop bringing the subject. It happened well over 30 years ago. It just seemed like she was dragging out a dead horse to beat, and then judging my mom harshly if she refused to give her any information.

So yeah she made it sound like my mom had some sort of foreknowledge about my abuse and was denying it to protect herself from accountability. She also said the case was dropped when I remember specific things being said to me that indicated that the case was not dropped, and the charges were actually staid.

From experience with my aunt she likes creating her own reality based off of your reaction to her, while denying provoking your reaction. Of course you are angry and threatening if you point out her hypocrisy.

As narcissistic and toxic as my mother could be, she tried to support me during that time. She was messed up and fair from perfect but all facts should be considered in painting an honest picture.

May I ask if you still have to run into this super?

Thankfully he recently left, but the way my family treated me during that time was ridiculous.

[Invisiblewoman]

I think it's good to analyze what people say. It's not necessarily a bad thing, or being fixated in the past. It's critical thinking. I think when people lie sometimes they do it well and with kernels of truth, but not the entire truth. Some people become fixated on some things and may think they are telling the truth when they don't have any factual proof. They may completely believe something despite some logically sound evidence proving otherwise.

One thing my aunt did, is she did not think it through and consider the facts. This was a case that was reported and the police and supportive agencies got involved; a lot of things happened and could only be possible if there was a case. Mandated court ordered therapy, discussions around restraining orders, and the fact because of my age, and my abuser's willingness to admit guilt played into the fact that my presence wasn't required when he was sentenced in court. I was very specifically told these things at the time.

There is a lot of other information that disproves my aunt's statement that the case was dropped and he was never charged. And why save that to tell me some 30 years later when a lot of time has passed and when access to that information is no longer even available?

She kind of played fast and loose with those details. She said my mom refused to be investigated by the police. My mom, and reasonably so, found the case stressful. But one thing my mom did right was she supported me. She wanted my stepfather dead, and she was empathetic. My aunt tried to change that story. She said she absolutely refused to be interviewed by police and flew off on vacation for a month to avoid the police. My aunt accused her of being selfish for causing the case to be dropped to save herself the public embarrassment in town.

I really wanted to believe her as I have been told some really elaborate lies, and I watched my mom wind up in a domestic abuse situation and watched her personality completely shift into something else.

It's really hard to tell what's real or not some days.

But yeah, there's definitely some bullshit going on in my family.

[Invisiblewoman]

If we don't grieve that fact, we can remain quite stuck. If we do allow it to register (slowly, mine took several years) then eventually, we individuate from them in a way that was never possible when we were kids. We get the "I'm truly safe now" feeling that we have been waiting a lifetime to feel. Having a therapist to explore emotional safety with is very helpful. That would be my advice on how to make the process less confusing, is to work with a therapist who knows how to make you feel truly safe. That for me, was like going to the gym - working the "I'm safe now" muscle so that it grows. I always had a part inside me that knew my parents were not safe - what I needed was to build trust with that part, and let her talk to me, and let her anger at her parents have a safe place to get expressed. All of that is much easier if you've got a therapist who knows how to guide that process.

The videos from Patrick Teahan on inner child work (all on youtube for free) gave me much needed language and validation. My inner child knows a lot, I "just" had to listen to her. Your inner child knows a lot too.

There is a part of me that still doesn't know how to feel safe in the world. I do struggle with social anxiety and I think a lot of that stems from the abuse because if the ones closest to you can go from being sweet and kind to a monster next, then really anybody is capable of that and you might not always see it coming.

Yet at the same time I am slow to give myself credit because I did handle this round of manipulation as well as I could; I did not attack; they attacked and they showed themselves. It took me a while to not see their words as cutting, and not internalize or blame myself for their reaction. Surely if they reacted that way, I must be unreasonable then? I was ready to take responsibility but it felt like they never would. In hindsight, they wanted me to feel responsible for their emotions, or any discomfort I caused them, with questioning them, or deflecting their boundary violations. They turned their boundary violations into something I had done to them. That is the very essence of what narcissistic people do; they try to trigger you into "fixing" the relationship, and into constantly having to make it up to them, to give them supply while they give nothing in return.

I was just tired of the manipulation. Oddly enough, my mom said if she screws up with me, I can hold her accountable like an adult. I went no contact when she screwed up. It hurt real bad too, but I felt like her being actually accountable for her actions, would result in a honeymoon period, followed by her manipulating and deliberately stressing me out further down the road. It hurt but she certainly ended up burning some bridges with other people, thus showing them that she wasn't exactly a victim of me.

She could say sorry, but often that sorry was followed by a "but" and then her making excuses for causing a situation and shifting blame onto me. Going no contact with my mom was harder than going no contact with my aunt. I was less close to my aunt, and didn't know all the machinations of her mind, and how she saw me as I entered into a closer relationship. When the skewed power dynamics became apparent, I felt it in my best interests to leave. She literally almost played the same hand my mom played, just like when my mother's abuse initially escalated towards me in my teens. She played my brother off of me, and gave him all the power over communication, and had him "tell" on me for anything I said; and if I said anything and tried to hold them accountable and not accept their manipulation, they lashed out and called me crazy and tried to gaslight me.

I just had a sense that I felt wronged and invalidated and that my sharing my feelings was somehow crazy with them. You may have felt that too, where you just know you are not allowed to be on common ground with them, where they deliberately skew power dynamics towards their favour, and no amount of reasoning or trying to work it out will matter. The rules were never fair so why bother playing these games with them?

[LoverofPeace]

Hello Invisiblewoman,

I see you've been doing a lot of unpacking that I pray is helping towards your healing journey. Lord knows you deserve peace in your life, after all of the violations. I completely understand this, even if we're not on the same exact road. The common denominator is this NPD sickness. And not from just one person who is an 'acquaintance', at least. We are dealing with/have been through more than one close narc family member!

Anyway, that brings me to wanting to talk about something where my Nsis is concerned; that I said I would do one day, yet hard to write about and might take some unpacking. But, when I read your latest posts, I thought this would be the time to do it; at least some of it. The following is what brings me here right now from discussing the violations you endured:

It happened well over 30 years ago. It just seemed like she was dragging out a dead horse to beat, and then judging my mom harshly if she refused to give her any information.

So yeah she made it sound like my mom had some sort of foreknowledge about my abuse and was denying it to protect herself from accountability. She also said the case was dropped when I remember specific things being said to me that indicated that the case was not dropped, and the charges were actually staid.

And, then there's the super who violated you, too. Who wouldn't feel like this?:

There is a part of me that still doesn't know how to feel safe in the world. I do struggle with social anxiety and I think a lot of that stems from the abuse because if the ones closest to you can go from being sweet and kind to a monster next, then really anybody is capable of that and you might not always see it coming.

While there have been sexual violation attempts, especially when I was younger, I've been blessed to have gotten away without too much of my boundaries damaged. But even that left some scars that manifested as distrust of others, especially strangers. I'm friendly, but I go but I will go but so far with people.

However, my Nsis is a different story. What I'm about to say isn't excusing her of her physical attacks towards me in the past, but just to say I realized in time where it was coming from. She was also violated by my Mom's past partner, well over 30 years ago.

Let me start by saying I believe a person can be born with narcissism tendencies that can be ignited depending upon their upbringing. Like, growing up I remember my Nsis was very outgoing when we played outside, making friends anywhere she pleased. And when she was in the house, she was either being quiet, sneaky, or slept a lot (got bored easily). But she was cool to co-exist with and didn't threaten me in any way.

Then, not long after my Mom and Dad separated, we (her 3 daughters) lived with this man (better yet, he lived with US). I remember trying to stay on his good side because I wanted to impress him--I guess I wanted that father figure feeling back in the home. My other sis, who was older than me and this Nsis, was more reserved and serious. She and this man didn't really get along, but this sis didn't care to (was missing her real Dad).

Then, there was my Nsis who seemed like me in wanting to please him. But he took advantage of her 'friendliness' and apparently she got violated by him. To this day, I don't know how far it went. But all I know is one day I went on vacation with my grandparents in another state and when I came 'home', we were temporarily moving in with my other grand and didn't really talk about her ex-partner at that point. Once I became grown, I heard mention of things going too far. All my Mom would say is she warned my Nsis to stop playing around with him. I dared not ask more about it. You know that invisible wall that you'd run into if you dared square up with it? But at least my Mom also alluded to the fact to that being a deal breaker when it came to her girls and that she never looked back.

But after we moved from this grand into our own new place, that's when the Nsis started wanting to be combative with me. I now know she was taking things out on me. And that was when her NPD was sparked, after the 'incident'; and we were only pre-teens.

Even today, after going our separate ways, and my knocking her down just a few years ago to back her up, it feels like she thinks she can still take things out on me. The issue is, she thinks it's about other things and not that incident with our mother's ex so many years ago. I can see the rage in her like that child back then who can't figure it all out. Like a broken record. Not that she's like that every minute, but whenever the rage rears its ugly head.

I don't know if you heard of Prof. Sam Vaknin (in fact, I believe I learned about him from this forum), but he is a classic NPD'er who has Youtube videos that are very deep. I think he is one of the best at explaining NPD because he is able to go deep within the psyche of it. Thus, I remember in one of his vlogs that he said something like: the narcissist has a need to work out what broke them over and over in their head. But the outcome has to be a bad one. That's because they are like that child having a tantrum about it and wanting attention from their parent(s) that they never get sufficiently. Therefore, they are subconsciously expecting a bad, as opposed to good, outcome. And like a broken record, they're stuck with that scenario resulting in the bad outcome.

In conclusion for now, I was hoping when my mother moved in with my Nsis the last few years, that this subject would come up and they could resolve it without my involvement (that's the time I had went NC). I should have known better because two people with NPD rarely, if ever, get to the bottom of anything.

And with my mother's recent passing, this is also why the Nsis is acting like that lost child even more. She's doing pretty good though, because she's not bothering me every minute as the days go by.

It does help to write about this, as I thought it would be too much. But it's somewhat of a load off of me because I know that I didn't cause this situation, but I also can't discuss this with the source. Heaven forbid I ever bring this up to her. I already know that's not a good idea. Because unlike you, she is too immature to handle the emotions of this thing. Instead, I can see her getting confused, being in denial, fearful, etc. That'd be fine if it were followed by working on her healing. But sadly, they don't think anything's wrong with them. And, it's not my job to solve it. Life doesn't work that way.

This thing is about more me working on my own healing.

Well Invisiblewoman, I hope there's something you can get out of this or anyone else who this might help. You're not alone in this thing.

Peace. ☮☯🙏🏼

[LoverofPeace]

I just wanted to follow up by saying a child has a need to feel safe and validated. And like the title of this post states so wisely, 'The toll of chronic invalidation and abuse', can have adverse affects on the victim and those around them.

But we are making it through because we're still here on this Earth for today. So, God is bringing us through it and it's like He's saying, 'I am giving you another day and opportunity to figure this thing out'.

I pray we can all figure this thing out called life.

 

[Invisiblewoman]

I don't know if you heard of Prof. Sam Vaknin (in fact, I believe I learned about him from this forum), but he is a classic NPD'er who has Youtube videos that are very deep. I think he is one of the best at explaining NPD because he is able to go deep within the psyche of it. Thus, I remember in one of his vlogs that he said something like: the narcissist has a need to work out what broke them over and over in their head. But the outcome has to be a bad one. That's because they are like that child having a tantrum about it and wanting attention from their parent(s) that they never get sufficiently. Therefore, they are subconsciously expecting a bad, as opposed to good, outcome. And like a broken record, they're stuck with that scenario resulting in the bad outcome.

That just seems sad to me. In a weird way I feel sorry for my mom because she was treated badly as well. Despite her abusive behaviour, she seemed lost.

A lot of that blame shifting they seem to do is so they can disinherit that negative outcome onto someone else, so they can remain happy and more importantly guilt free. Instead of confronting their own behaviour it gets passed onto someone else.  I heard narcissists/abusers have intense shame that they try to disinherit.

[Invisiblewoman]

Narcissism and Shame

I think my brother was quick to isolate me during my mom's death because I represented shame to him.  He abused me at my mom's encouragement. He was quick to say I'd "have an outburst" or cause problems.

My aunt was after me over the way I made her feel with my reaction when she tried to give my address to my mother.

My aunt went on about how wonderful she is when I asked her to quit playing games with me. I told her I won't tolerate gaslighting.  She absolutely lost it and attacked me, and put me down while boasting about how she has a wonderful life and wonderful things to fill up her life, and thus doesn't need my criticism. She absolutely wanted to destroy me. My criticism was an attack and so she had to put me below her. She tore me down personally.

It was strange because my reaction to criticism and rage from others is to check myself, and try to take responsibility. Narcissistic rage is not about responsibility though and it's about them disinheriting their abuse back onto you.

I think that's what finally got me to a stage of no contact. I recognized there was no equal footing in the relationship, and I was just going to inherit their negativity.

They made it easy for me to leave, and I am grateful in a strange way.

I am still apprehensive about opening up but I think it's okay to examine what was said. I took on the dark emotions of certain family for far too long I think.

[LoverofPeace]

That just seems sad to me. In a weird way I feel sorry for my mom because she was treated badly as well. Despite her abusive behaviour, she seemed lost.

A lot of that blame shifting they seem to do is so they can disinherit that negative outcome onto someone else, so they can remain happy and more importantly guilt free. Instead of confronting their own behaviour it gets passed onto someone else.  I heard narcissists/abusers have intense shame that they try to disinherit.
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So we'll said. I'm glad at least we know what's happening with them doing all that, but it still has its effects on us,  who aren't trying to do that to other people.

And it seems they get to live blissfully ignorant. However, teachers like Vaknin say that they are definitely suffering inside.

It's weird because I don't want for me, them, or anyone to suffer.  Yet, they want that for us with the blame shifting/disinheriting.