Should I tell her I disliked our last convo?

[lindentree]

I am mildly low contact with hfNM who lives several hours away. I have gone through years of therapy and reading books on PD to develop boundaries and individuate. Our last phone convo left me feeling angry and confused after she likened me inviting her and enabling Stepfather to visit us once they're vaccinated as a "knife in her heart" because she doesn't want to wait to "see family". I know...I shouldn't have.

She followed up next day with a text about how much $ is my young children's college savings account that they set up ("I just happened to be checking and thought you might like to know"). And another text tonight with video of sunset from her million $ house. I have not responded since phone call day before. I just don't know how to respond and I know I don't have to.

Part of me wants to say, "Are you open to hearing how I thought our last convo went?" or simply "I did not like how our last convo went." I know that my desire to respond is only out of obligation. And I know that JADE-ing gets me nowhere. So talk me out of it.

I think she feels close to us because I use an app to share pics of my kids with several friends and family members and she is on the list. Her comments tend to be so narcissistic it's laughable. I know I'd need to remove from that if I decide to go NC.

[notrightinthehead]

How about you try to emotionally detach yourself from her for now? You take a step back and observe as you would in a movie or a soap opera. With some interest but no feelings involved whatsoever. You also don't call her when you need advice or want to discuss anything, and your comments are flat. disinterested, and polite. You watch her behaviour,  you might label it in your mind, ah, she is baiting me, she is boasting, she feels superior,  she manipulates..., you might journal about it and get rid of all your feelings in that way. You observe very closely but you do not engage emotionally at all.

[Maxtrem]

Personally, I don't think it's wise to talk to her about it again. PDs are notorious for their lack of empathy and never taking responsibility for their actions. Plus, you know NM probably doesn't even understand that she did something wrong...

[GettingOOTF]

My experience with my family is that what ever I told them upset me they made sure to do more of.

They simply aren’t capable or don’t want to hear what I have to say.

It seems clear from your post that your mother also isn’t happy with how your last interactions went and that will be her sole focus in any discussions on the subject.

I was not able to manage a LC relationship with my family precisely because their focus was on doing more of what I asked them not to. I am now NC with them. My life has significantly improved in terms of my confidence, self esteem and just general stress levels.

[SunnyMeadow]

I completely agree with all above. I wouldn't talk to her about it either. Put that conversation behind you and know you won't discuss visits or vaccinations again. You could come up with a standard reply "we'll see what time brings" or "maybe in the future" and change the subject or get off the phone.

Emotionally detaching is a good idea. Start to think of her and her views as    You don't care what she says and don't care about her opinions. She becomes a shoulder shrug in your mind. I know my mom has very intense views on what people DO TO HER, politics, what this woman said, how that guy gave her a "look". I hear these things from her and think to myself, yep that's how she thinks and move on. I know her reactions and I don't jump in to fix things and don't give them much thought. Nothing I say will change her so I don't participate in certain topics.

My uNPD mother has done the same thing with mentioning how much she's given to my children and I when a visit from us isn't being planned like she wants. Really and truly, this is in her arsenal just like your mother. Things aren't going her way, she pointedly brings up that she gave _____ and ____ to us. My solution to this is don't take anything from her. Even the smallest thing, "do you want this $10 bathmat"? A seemingly innocent thing, an item she can't return because she lost the receipt becomes a weapon, a zinger. Don't take anything. I don't know what you do about the savings account though.

She doesn't care what you thought about your last conversation. It will give her ammunition to continue the discussion where she will twist your words to suit her. If this were me I wouldn't reply to the savings acct and sunset. I'd also stop posting photos to the app for a while.

[Andeza]

I think your desire to respond is based, more likely, on your desire to speak your truth and have a normal relationship. These aren't bad things to want. However with disordered individuals, it opens you to an extremely negative response. In their world everything is an attack on them, an insult, or a slight of some kind. It becomes a no win situation in certain circumstances. They have hurt us, but we can't speak up because they will claim the hurt as their own and try to turn the focus back around onto themselves.

I know it is a typically religious phrase, but "don't cast your pearls before swine" is jumping into my mind. And while it's origin is religious, I think it is useful outside that setting as well. In this case, the pearls being your positive qualities. Such as your kindness and desire to be understood and respected.

[lindentree]

Thank you to all of these replies. I have felt some guilt and obligation about choosing not to respond but I'm proud of myself. I've had imagined dialogues in my head about what I'd say if she confronts me about not responding and they went from "I didn't like how that conversation went" to "we've been busy". I think the latter is a much better option a lá grey rock.

I appreciate those that suggested I try to observe, detach, and in general consider her behaviors as a metaphorical shoulder shrug. I love that idea but I think some C-PTSD has me rehearsing, musing, ruminating. I have reached out to a trauma therapist and am just figuring out the financial side before I begin.

Does treating PD loved ones with a "meh" attitude come with time? How do you get to the place of being able to just observe their antics? I will try journaling. Looking for other tips for Grey Rock. I love some of the phrases that were suggested. Thanks again, all.

[daughter]

I think it helps to "take notes" when conversing with a NPD-parent, easy enough to do while on telephone call. (Emails and texts create their own record, but face-to-face note-taking would likely be viewed by my nmom as "offensively confrontational".). I did periodic notes, for times when I thought my npd-parents' gas-lighting and deceptive statements were too profuse to grey-rock ignore. My notes gave me something to contemplate in peace, after the crazy-making, so I could acknowledge and process their manipulations and FOG-making.

That said, I was told many many times that my quite wealthy nparents intended to "pay for" my children's college educations. Prattle, to their gathered audience, bragging about their wealth and supposed generosity.  Nmom even attempted to shame us, and bamboozle our eldest DS, to apply and attend extremely expensive high-prestige university, all for bragging rights, though it was a poor fit for DS, and he'd never be accepted without major clout (my nsis and her DH supposedly had said "inside connection" to make it happen) --- it mortified us that nmom and nsis would torpedo DS' college success by manipulating him to apply, and worse, to attend bad fit school to fail out.  Anyways, DS applied elsewhere, and my parents bought themselves a 350 Mercedes as a HS graduation present for themselves. Nope, no college financial contributions. Not a dime.  And no, we weren't surprised, considered it true-to-form, my parents overpromising and never ever delivering.

[SunnyMeadow]

Does treating PD loved ones with a "meh" attitude come with time? How do you get to the place of being able to just observe their antics? I will try journaling. Looking for other tips for Grey Rock.

For me, in came in time. Used to be I was like a soldier at attention when my uNPD mother would blow her narcissist whistle. I'd go to her house and take her to lunch, listen to her blab about this person and that person and year after year, nothing changed. I'd research stuff on the computer when she complained, she would ignore and dismiss. It turns out she doesn't want to change, she wants to complain.

When I started to realize this, I'd just listen to her and know it was just complaining. I started to feel MEH towards her. Like what kind of relationship is this?  When I took inventory of all the people who have faded away from her or she dumped, I realized....it's HER! She's the awful one. All these things kept adding up to me. Why am I expending so much time and energy on her? What do I get in return? Every phone call is me, me, me. She wants an audience. I started calling less, sticking more to text or email. I don't want to hear her voice. 

The observe don't absorb technique helps. Think of it like you're a therapist, she's the patient. You have a clipboard and your glasses perched on the end of your nose. You observe her and her bad behavior but don't take it to heart. You don't absorb anything about her. She's an odd lady saying odd and hurtful things but you simply observe. Easier said than done though and that's where time helps. Year after year it's the same thing with them. Life is too short to waste on bad relationships. I want good, easy going and happy relationships in my life. That's where I'm putting most of my time. She's fading into the Meh category because that's what she's caused.  I think of her as a nasty, old and mean lady who lives across town.

I tried to do NC but my anxiety went sky high. So now I'm LC and try not to absorb her crap. I still do sometimes but not like I used to do. My whole life revolved around her, even when I had kids at home. I wish I could change that part of my life. Keep reading here and do searches on gray rock, medium chill, observe don't absorb. YouTube videos are very helpful.

Dr Les Carter
The Little Shaman
Lisa A Romano
Richard Grannon
Ross Rosenburg
We need to Talk with Kris Godinez
and bunches more! ♥

[moglow]

Part of me wants to say, "Are you open to hearing how I thought our last convo went?" or simply "I did not like how our last convo went." I know that my desire to respond is only out of obligation. And I know that JADE-ing gets me nowhere. So talk me out of it.

With all the restraint at my command, I'd like to suggest that you tell that part of you to sit down and hush for a minute.  Think it all the way through before you try to have that conversation with her - have you at any point in time had a productive conversation after you were disappointed / hurt/ upset/ blindsided by something she said or did? Do you have any reason to think she'll respond well to being told in essence that she was wrong or that you are not?

Stay with me here - mine can and will twist everything that doesn't celebrate her or questions her reasoning on any level. Directly address or try to explain something that to me is so far out of reason I can't even grasp where she went? Nope!! I've done it, or at least I've tried, many times. That hole just goes deeper and it gets uglier. Mother goes full on rage then to waif [that she's being "attacked"]. Every time.  Remember the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior - you can change yours, not hers.

As part of that, no you don't have to respond to her pithy random posts or messages. Mine does that too - has a meltdown then instead of resolving same and moving on, she just packs it away for "later" and it comes out when I'm least prepared for it. She turns into the good fairy and butter wouldn't melt in her mouth while I'm wondering what the hell just happened here. So I don't play. Well, not usually. When I do I invariably end up regretting it.

My best option with mine now and may be similar for you, provide as little ammo as possible. I rarely confront, and even then only when I've got the stomach and energy for it because it's gonna be a meltdown. Path of least resistance so I don't in turn have to recuperate.