Out of the FOG

Yeah I found out my son didn't block we're cool. Her hubby text her mom this morning sending her a 20 page threat and insult laden rant telling its his family now they will be raised as he sees fit. That my ex answers to him now and nobody else. Among other things. I'm shaking after reading it.

What a monster he is. Unbelievable that your ex would endangerchildren with him.

Glad you and your son are cool at least. I assume you're fine with your youngest too. What a shameless liar your ex is. Absolutely no bounds.

I'm giving the texts to my lawyer I think they need to see what kind of man he really is. My ex did send me pics of the kids today, but the shit is going to hit the fan tomorrow, she's going to go file her taxes. She's doesn't know I carried the kids. I'm honestly scared I don't know what she's liable to do.

Keep your phone on you at all times, don't answer the door if they show up, call the cops if need be (like they won't go away), and you also don't have to answer if she calls.

Oh, and if things get weird, video record... while waiting for the cops.

She's already told he's done being nice

Stay safe. Please don't answer the door or phone to them.

Oh I'm not, she came by here to get a paper for her taxes they parked way down the street and I was even allowed to to look at my daughter

So the shoe has not yet dropped?

So far Alls Quiet on The Western Front.

You are doing well Getintired, keep it up! Don't let her mess with you anymore.

I'm relieved to hear it.

Nervous for you though.

I don't know if the credit gets rejected outright at filing. I'm not sure if TurboTax et al have access to that data. Maybe only the IRS does. In which case your ex will not discover it until the refund hits the account.

Please continue to be on guard for this guy.

Yep and oh my lawyer said the kids in know way shape or form need to be around the guy. She does not believe he has miraculously changed. She is going to touch base with CPS, try to find his ex, touch base with their schools etc. We haven't filed yet but it's next.

Oh and there will be a surprise tox screen and she wouldn't be surprised if the make her do a psyche eval.

Oh gosh this is great news, sounds like things may start coming together. Really pulling for you guys.

Ty so much....does climbing Everest feel like this? Ain't even close to the summit and I wearing out. I'll keep ya'll posted.

The only thing that bothered was the fact that a) she barely let me talk and b) unlike the other lawyer I had she told me there is no such thing as full custody, that I had no choice but to share some kind of custody with my ex.

Those aren't great but at some point I just want sone real change, and she's talking about some hopeful things.

Also, further steps could happen later, who knows. This could snowball, I mean.

17th can'tcome soon enough, for a start.

So true two more weeks

But every time I got started speaking she would start talking over me, I almost asked her she wanted me to answer questions or not. She then started directing her questions to my sister telling her to speak for me. Then when I answered as to why certain thing didn't get done, she proceeded to tell me a judge won't except blaming the other party for everything in I need to take responsibility for things (which I absolutely do). I mean she absolutely agreed my ex will undoubtedly go in blaming everyone but herself and will get nowhere. But I didn't even get to let her know I already had the petition paperwork filled out.

Wut. Wtf was she even saying one word to your sister for.

Look, if she will be a bulldog for your kids, fine. I don't care if she's pleasant or rude or weird or what as long as the job gets done.

If she's not getting crucial info from you because she won't listen, that's a problem.

Maybe next time have your sister meet you after the meeting so you can get your support, but go in alone.

Maybe she has a problem with men. Idk but I hope she can get the job done.

She more or less disregarded the DV issue I know that. But yeah that's what I was thinking She told me I needed to step up before I start trying to get my kids, he'll I should be in heaven by now for all the "stepping up" I've done. When is my ex gonna be told to "step up"?

No kidding. No kidding.

Are you stuck with her?

If so, you're going to make the very best of it.

When you speak to her next time, summon your inner strength and calm. Talk slowly. Talk calmly. Look her in the eye. Address her politely by her professional name when you need to make a strong point: "Ms. Smith, I have been told full custody is possible. My children are being abused daily and are begging for help in the most heartbreaking ways."

When you feel rushed and pushed, slow down.

You're doing great. I forgot, did the job start this week or is it Monday? So you have the CDL all set? You've got a lawyer and despite everything, she's talking about some real stuff. It's starting to happen. Keep going.

I start Monday, I haven't got the CDL's yet I have to get my class E's back first, will probably get my D'S (what I had before aka "boxtruck" license). Soon as I get those back I go back to the trucking company and get started. I'm going to use my refund to get a house and a car. Hopefully everything is falling into place. It bothered me tho that when I mentioned the CPS investigations she kept evading what CPS said about my ex she just wanted to know what they said about me and wouldn't except that all I knew was what my ex said. But CPS told me themselves what Autumn said about her step dad nothing was said to me about anything be said about me and my family. The only person to say she said anything about me was my ex. It was like the lawyer got impatient with me and looked at my sister and said answer for him.

Sounds like she has a problem with men. I hope very much when she gets more info she understands the real picture and does her damn job.

Getting:

Your attorney wants every speck of truth so she can counter anything negative AND so she's not ambushed in court by opposing counsel....attorneys hate looking like fools, ime.

Also, it's likely she feels you're stuck going down rabbit holes in discussions, which is common for clients dealing with trauma, esp when children are at risk, ime.

When I say rabbit holes.....
I used to jump from one thing to another, talking about all the PD crazy things I knew happened.....I was frustrated and so freaked out I couldn't recognize humor or appear normal in a group.....so maybe the message your attorney is sending you is:

Think about your evidence before answering a question.  Your attorney is putting together a theory of your case to present to the court.

It's helpful to review your evidence and build your case and accusations based on documentation and what you can prove, bc I gotta tell'ya......the tendency to barf up our entire experience, as it happened and in exact detail, jumping from one thing to the next as I did.....can make us (the non parent asking for help) appear unhinged.

Also, when we talk about many crazy PD truths, without evidence, listeners easily assume we're exaggerating or lying, bc attorneys assume ALL litigants are liars anyway.


When PDs are involved, particularly, we must document carefully and pick and choose what allegations we'll make, ime.

It's better to be the litigant who is proven to tell the truth over and over.  The ex will be making all kinds of allegations she cannot prove......the goal is to put forth a good case without drawing negative attention to yourself and looking like you're apart of the problem, ime.  The ex will be doing her best to trigger you into outbursts and hope the Judge throws their hands up and assumes you're the real disordered person, ime.



1.  Think about the question before answering.  Consider your theory of your case based on your evidence.  Don't just tell everything without taking a breath while leaning forward in your chair, locking eyes with your listener, pinning them down with expectations for what they MUST DO, MUST FEEL and must think about.

It's important to tell a story people can make sense of....to " square up" and to do so without any expectations.  Simply state your facts, know how to put your hands on the evidence to PROVE what you've calmly alleged and leave your listener space to come to their own conclusions and get angry IN YOUR BEHALF. 

If you tell them what they have to do ...sometimes they get angry at you and punish you and your children, ime.

2.  When you answer questions, give only the hamburger, not the bun and usually no condiments it veggies.

Attorneys and Judges want a YES or a NO which I found very difficult to give without explaining my answer.

Please know your attorney will give you a chance to explain your answer and " rehabilitate you" IF that yes it no answer makes you appear in a negative light.

It's ok to give a yes or no that feels just awful..... you'll get a chance to explain it.  Trust and breathe......breathe from the bottom of your lungs to the top, slowly, like you're filling a vase. Finish morning showers with cold water for 5 seconds.  Splash cold water in your face.   It will help calm your brain and help you problem solve and be logical. 

You need to find a wat to calm yourself, bc your attorney is just a tool you direct and use.  You are your biggest asset and your childrens' best asset.

To stay centered while answering questions perhaps pretend you're speaking to a young child or nervous bird. 

Short, simple, calm, keep your voice low and don't rush on in any direction......speak slowly.....give short answers then stop talking.

Your important facts will have an impact if they aren't drowning in a sea of your experience, which has been irrational PD hell, I know.

Just remember your mission.

Go through your evidence.

Put together the best case you can and base it on your strongest evidence.

Resist responding or reacting to your ex's crazy statements and accusations.  You're the stable, consistent parent who has control over your emotions, right?  Show that to the court in every way and hope your calm demeanor is upsetting you to your ex.  Let her be the one to lose her chill in front of court officers, not you.  Her attorney will likely hate her, so....
And this is important.....
You be the litigant who pets his pony (attorney) speaks to her calmly, feeds her and brushes her.....you make sure your attorney doesn't dislike you.  Make sure your attorney doesn't have to worry you'll make a fool of her in court.  Make sure you don't blind side her while testifying and present evidence she didn't see coming or withhold something important she needed to know well ahead of time so she could strategize instead of throwing herself on her sword.

This is really important, ime.......
If your attorney or opposing counsel or anyone asks you a stupid or upsetting question ( and likely they will) treat it as an opportunity to educate that person and remember you're addressing a small child ir nervous bird you feel Goodwill towards, always.

You also should speak about your ex with respectful compassion, bc she's the mother of your children, likely disordered AND you don't want to appear like a vindictive person dragging your ex into court to punish punish her through the children.

You're asking for relief, protection and anything the court can provide for your children's safety.  Remain focused on the children and your evidence based case.......it will help.  I promise.

Remember, no snark, sarcasm or going down rabbit holes.  Use names so people know who you're referring to.  Speak slowly.....calmly....only the hamburger and make sure you can back every burger with proof.

Wishing you the best possible outcome.

Yeah I have had the experience of being so utterly overwhelmed by what was going on and the sheer insanity of it that I was "leaking" it wherever.

And when I finally sitting in fromt of a professional - a doctor in an emergency room when my H was having a psychotic episode - the dam would have burst if the doc didn't just cut me off and then leave me there. Doc just wanted one or two quick questions answered. I wanted HELP!!!

So if hhaw is right about that, don't feel bad at all.

Dump HERE. And get very streamlined and focused with the attorney. Just concise facts, that's it.

Thank you so much guys I completely agree but damn it's so hard.

I'm so tired this waiting, while she gets everything and it's like everyone is sucking up to her, and every step I take is in to a wall, it knew it would be hard but damn it's so painful.

Your forward steps, of which you'vetaken several, have not been to a wall. I know you haven't reached the destination yet but you are moving.

At the risk of sounding remotely sorry for your ex, which I do not in the slightest, believe me, her life is shit. Nothing to envy over there.

In fact, she's got a scary future ahead of her when that sociopath turns on her. And he will.

She's just built this IMAGE of how everything is. And like everything else, it's lies. All lies.

Leave her to her fate. Just keep going for the kids, that's all that matters. You're making real progress. Don't buy her story.

He already has I think, she has to ask permission to go to the bathroom. In some ways I think she may be scared of him and every thing  didn't escalate to this until after she married him. Now they're his family to do with as he chooses and they only respond to him.

Not surprised. So don't spend any of your precious energy envying her. You'd rather be you, in every way.

I hate to think of him breaking my little girls' spirits, for all their problems they have always been so full of life. He sat my son down and told him I was a convicted child abuser. I Am Not I have two driving on a suspendeds on my record. That is all.

He is horrible and I pray your kids will be free of him.

Sounds like your kids are not really buying the lies about you.

I don't think so I don't know since it's been zero contact it's killing knowing my daughter thinks I abandoned her after I promised I never would. She doesn't understand what's going on. I would like to know what experts she has taken her to. She was supposed to be home sick with Covid along with the kids.

Well I guess in a way it's good she actually spoke to me today, but I can't help but feel it's "ass covering" just so she can tell the court "look see, I let him know about stuff" . Now all of a sudden she wants me involved in the children's lives, she wants me to be "responsible" she wants me "to show" I want it" smh. Anyway I found out supposedly my daughter is now on 3 diff medications including Trazodone and very powerful drug. Now remember my ex told me the child was expelled, but now she returns back to school next week in a special classroom. And of course she asked about child support ( of which I absolutely no problem paying child support). And also she still wants me to go clean up her mess at the house she lived in here in town. I kept my cool even tho it's so exhausting to constantly hear everything so awful that I did. She stated that she has to help our daughter recover from what I did to her. But none of the behavioral stuff started happening until after she went back to her mother.

Good job keeping your cool.

Fine, she wants to cover her ass, great. More access for you while you're waiting for a custody decree that doesn't depend on her whims. (I hooooooope 100%)

She still insists me and or my family had something to do with CPS, when we had absolutely nothing to do with it. She claims "what was said" proves it but she refuses to say what was said.

Lies lies lies.

Maybe she suspects you. In which case she's hoping to get a confession out of you.

Otherwise it's just more pressure and leverage.

And lies, of course.

It sounds like your ex is trying to talk you into reacting to her crazy statements so she can blame you for whatever CPS finds.

I hope you're carefully documenting everything she says, writes down and does.  If you can't legally record conversations in your State it's better to text all communication to document it.

Even if you can't legally record, sometimes sharing recorded conversations with your own attorney helps  them understand exactly what's going on, ime.

Attorneys talk to other attorneys who talk to file clerk's, GALs and Judges.

Sometimes the right information gets to the right ears in surprising ways, ime.

Be mindful of your words, tone and attitudes when communicating with the ex.  She might be recording you.

She supposedly records me constantly but haven't really found any proof in all the years she claimed she did, I almost exclusively text her, so I have some interesting and very unhinged convos saved, that show how paranoid she is getting and how bent she gets at the mere mention of something being said of her hubby. I was reading through some other posts on here and I believe that am an empath , I crave to be loved and especially validated, however I will and have given up everything I own including my health to see to those I love are loved and validated. My ex always swore I was selfish, and in some ways you know what maybe I am, If paying a car payment instead of buying a super expensive b-day present is selfish yes I'm selfish ( my daughter cornered the market that birthday by the way) and if demanding she not scream and cuss at myself and our kids is being selfish again then yes I am selfish. And I am proud of that kind of selfishness. One poster spoke of how his ex constantly told him she couldn't wait till he died, I have heard that so many times myself, and more. I have had knives drawn on me bones broken, and been abandoned for days at a time. Months even. She constantly cry's about what she shouldn't be expected to do. She shouldn't be expected to pay for the kids food shouldn't be expected to raise them full time, shouldn't be expected to pay bills etc. She put herself in the situation she is in, nobody else, she made the choice to start seeing someone else and run me off, she made the choice to take off and not tell me where she is. She made the choice to keep the kids from me. My lawyer said ( and I agree) that I have to take responsibility for my part, I do , I take responsibility for trying my best for the past 15 to argue with someone who can't listen, I take responsibility for not getting the kids to doctors any better then she did but when they did go it was me who took them. I fought like crazy with her and every time I bucked her it was abuse and she wasn't going to deal with it anymore she would run and I'd never see the kids again, or even she would kill herself and the kids, so I would back down, let her do. Because I was scared and yes I see it now yes selfishly wanting to keep my kids. It is refreshing to look at things with new eyes sometimes. This site and everyone on here has helped me so much and I thank every one of you, I just hope ya'll walk with me a little longer, to see how this plays out.

I know how it feels to go round and round in my head. It's cognitive dissonance. All your senses, perceptions, experience, and logic is telling you that this way is up. Then she comes aling and says, no, that's down. She says it over and over. She says everybody agrees with her. She says it's been proven. Down, down, down, down.

You know it's up but hearing it's down over and over, by someone who has dedicated her life, mind, and soul to believing it's down, it just is hard to resolve in your mind.

The thing that helped me reduce that feeling by a lot - though I admit it's not 100%, but it's surely 90% - is accepting my H didn't really even believe that crap.

It sure looked like he did but I discovered tiny clues here and there to show that deep down he either knew damn well which way was up, or at the very least, was confused himself.

After that, there was really no reason to take him seriously anymore when he insisted up was down. I was on to him.

I stopped having to convince him. Best of all, I stopped having to go round and round in my head. Oh, sure, sometimes just a little bit, but that's it. Then I remember.

Your ex is a pathological liar. Her main victim is herself. She may delude herself to some degree but deep down she knows. SHE KNOWS.

The reason she pours all these lies on you over and over, more than to convince and control you even, is to convince herself.

To such a person, our frantic attempts to convince them otherwise feels like a win. She has made us question reality, otherwise we would not panic about it.

If a street crazy approaches us and screams about aliens standing across the street, we don't even bother to look, much less engage in actual discourse about the presence or non-presence of aliens. We ignore them or at most just say well good luck with that, and walk away without a single thought other than "whoo."

Your ex is a street crazy. Let her lies take up as much room as someone screaming at you about aliens. Just, lol, ok.

There is nothing she says to you, even "hello," that doesn't have some angle to it. You don't have to figure out, just let it roll off: lol, ok.

Couldn't agree more

How do you get past the hating yourself for not being there when your baby needed you?

By doing what you're doing - everything you can for her, and all of them.

Good luck tomorrow regarding the new job.

I'm trying I really am I am just so overwhelmed and scared I'm gonna fail and she'll succeed in making me the bad guy and then I won't ever see my babies again. It just feels like nobody takes seriously to the point I feel maybe she right maybe it all was my fault? Maybe if I had been more stubborn she would have listened more maybe I was to hard on her I'm just so mixed up right now I'm scared about what's going to happen at court on the 17th I mean is judge going to ream me on evidence I haven't even seen yet? I just don't know. I know this confusion is just what she wants but I can't help it. I mean am I being vindictive? That's not my intention but am I? I'm exhausted but I can't sleep, I can't eat, I can't enjoy anything without worrying if my babies are ok. I sent an email through a link on here for one of those hostile custody case coaches I hope to hear back from them, I will probably be starting work Tuesday as I still have a little bit of paperwork to do. But thank you anyway.

There is NOTHING you could have done to get through to your ex. She makes her decisions on an entirely different standard than logic and reason.

I don't know what will happen on the 17th but your ex has a pattern of throwing up lies with absolutely no evidence to back them. That kind of behavior doesn't land well in court.

You're not being vindictive. Your babies are not safe. You being vindictive isn't even on the map.

I'm sorry you're so stressed. I can really understand it. There are some things you can't control and you'll just have to give it to God, or the universe, because you can't carry it. It's not your burden to carry even if it means the world. If you can't control it, release it.

The job is important so do your best to compartmentalize. Doing it helps your children.

One day at a time. Things are in motion at last. The job. Then next Thursday.

I couldn't retain the one lawyer as she wanted the $5000 up front, however I spoke to another and he informed me that by law they have to provide me a lawyer at the hearing. Sooo we shall see.

When will you meet the lawyer?

I don't know the whole things being very shady he also informed me I may have to do a dna test on the kids since her husband is claiming they are his. I was supposed to have recieved court documentation and everything....I have not....I have called all over her county and been told the same thing..."we can't tell you anything, or we don't know the particulars, I did find out from the GAL that my ex is not keeping up with her. I warned her she doesn't take court seriously and will postpone and skip at will.  She has already skipped one meeting citing Covid. So I'm kinda driving blind with this. And it's scary

I got a reply from the hostile case advocate, and set up an appointment for a consult on the 14th. I hope things can roll smoothly from here.

The 14th, okay, that's Monday. Fingers crossed.

I can really understand why you feel you're just getting hit with one thing after another. Just make sure you don't carry what's not in your control.

Your ex not taking court seriously, I really hope that plays hugely in your favor.

I don't know she always seems to get out of everything soo we shall see

Gettin:

Please organize all your paperwork and evidence.

Evidence should include the children's birth cirtificates with your name on them, all the Divorce Decrees, Custody Orders and aything you feel will reflect well on you and poorly on the PD.

If you didn't receive or keep the divorce paperwork you can go to the County Courthouse Superior Court File Clerk's office and request those documents for a copy fee.  Please note, court documents copies that haven';t been filed and stamped are tupically not accepted as evidence in a court of law.

Evidence should be CLEAN and unmarked originals or copies.... whatever you have, but clean and unmarked.

IF you're going to make notes on your copies, make sure to use the the highly reflective YELLOW HIGHLIGHTERS, bc they don't copy very well. 

Since you have some time, consider organizing  your evidence according to topics like.....
Visitation
Medicine
Safety Issues
e mails
Texts

You'll have some cross referencing where certiain important evidence is in more than one category and that's OK. 

An attorney will appreciate your having evidence organized and in order for trial so you can both access documents as the trial moves along.

Most trials with PDs comes down to disproving the accusations they make on the fly, IME.  That;s why knowing where your evidence is will come in very handy at trial.

Another thing to consider is making 3 copies of every important piece of evidence so you can give one to the Court, one to opposing counsel and keep one for yourself in an empty file folder you can use to make notes on about the evidence you gave to the Court.

Having a clean notebook to write in during the proceedings is helpful for two reasons:

1. To write down important things you'll forget if you're not making notes and
2.  So you have something to focus while the PD and perhaps her witnesses and attorney make outrageous statements about you.... you want to keep your face calm and patiently wait for your chance to explain or disprove the statement.  You'll get your chance, bc the Judge will want to know and likely ask some questions of their own.  Your attorney should give you a chance to explain, as well. 

IF you feel giving a simple YES or NO will make you look bad.... it's OK.  Go ahead and give the answer bc your attorney wll have the chance to rehabilitate you on the stand.... you'll get plenty of time to explain whatever it was that sounded bad.  Stay calm.

I know I explained how to speak and remain calm...... to pretend you're speaking to a small child...... every stupid question should be treated as an opportunity to educate. 

DO NOT GET DEFENSIVE. Let the PD get defensive, make snarky personal attacking remarks and blurt out all kinds of baseless accusations she can't prove.  As long as you APPEAR to be the kind of person who can control yourself and be reasonable.... you have a good chance of watching your PD implode under the stress of Court where she's not winning and maybe is losing obviously.

So, go through all your evidence, get Court Documents if you need them,. bc you have the time... it's like going to get your tag.  You stand in line at the File Clerk's office and ask for what you need when it's your turn.  You get filed and stamped copies of your court documents..... you need filed and stamped copies if you 're using them in court.  While you're there, perhaps tell them who your Judge is and see if they have any information to help you make sense of how your Judge usually rules and might rule in your case.   Maybe you'll learn something helpful. Maybe you won't but don't ask, don't get.

I'd also call around to some family law attorneys and ask their the gals or guys answering the phone who they'd hire if they had your Judge in your situation.  If they like you and feel for your kids they'll give more detail about your Judge, how they typiclly rule and what you need to keep in mind.  Sometimes paying for an hour with an attorney will get you all you need AND keep your PD ex from hiring them, so make a couple appointments with the best if you still have time.  Sometimes you can speak to law clerks and legal secretaries who have just as much information.

I'
m saying this bc some judges are very fair and level.  Some are decidedly not. The more information you have the better off you are.  If you have an old man Judge who hates women and doesn't care about safety issues.... you'll know not to spend a lot of time hitting on the safety issues, give only the top 3 maybe, no more, and mainly for the record, just in case.  All you can do is your best, then put the story on the shelf and rest.  Take a lovely long shower.  Go into nature or take a walk somewhere calming....... but don't worry worry worry yourself sick and sleepless, bc it won't help.

When you've rested and feel calm, go back and do more trial prep, then put it down again.  Focus on making a meal you enjoy, or plan a new ritual to share with the children over the holidays when you see them again, but do not break yourself down with worry. 

Breathe.  Think about problem solving when you're calm and breathe a lot when you're not calm. 

Having all your evidence filed and organized will help any attorney you speak to understand quickly and without frustration. 

You don't want to be labled difficult or unhinged or crazy.  You DO want to be labled cosistent, rational, reasonable and likely to support the best possible relationship between your children and their disordered mother who you understand is doing the best she can.... don't judge her.  Stick to the facts and always ALWAYS refer to her with compassion, bc that's how you avoid being labeled a vindictive litigant who'll sacrifice his kids to the Gods of Hate and Veangence.

You should write out the most important things you need to do and check them off your list.  Practice speaking calmly and slowly..... keeping things simple...... just the hamburger no BUN!

Good luck








I find

PDs do get away with a lot due to their manipulation skills. Court is a place they have a harder time. I'm not making promises but this is a different ball game.

HHaw, have you been looking through stuff? Lol I invented OCD I have everything in triplicate and quadruplicate labeled and filed five ways from Sunday. And there's sooo much she doesn't realize I have.

GOOD  8-)

I've actually come to the conclusion given her history, that her statement yesterday the she wants me to take responsibility and have a part in the kids lives was her way of saying "hurry up and get a place so I can off load this kids on you and not have to deal with them anymore"

Because she was whining (if I may) about she shouldn't expected to work and take care of 3 kids and have to deal with all this court stuff all by herself. Anytime she ever had to do anything anything she shouldn't be expected to do it. The worst was leaving the kids in dirty diapers until I came home from work because she didn't "do" poop. Of course the kids got rashes from hell. My youngest bless her heart would get gaulded till she bled, then of course it was my fault because I didn't change her enough. OY! VEH!

It needs to be official, though. She may dump them on you but she'll come take them back whenever she wants and that's bad.

It's great she feels this way right now, though, maybe there's some leverage in it somewhere to make it official.

Getting:

I haven't kept up with your thread.

I'm not clear on any official visitation and custody agreement in place.

Are you listed as the father on your childrens' birth certificates?

Do you have a place large enough to live without the your children or have overnight visitation?

What are the allegations made to DFCS against your ex, her husband and you, if any?

If you'd like to practice giving a short, pointed hamburger version of your situation, I would like to read it.

Ok hhaw, short version as in what I know, firstly there is a custody agreement in place for my son 50/50, I am on the birth certs for the girls but now agreement because I lived with them their entire lives, the allegations are as follows against me that I alienated them against their mother and stepfather, and that my sisters hit them, allegations against her and stepdad, they are sexually explicit in front of the kids, he hung ( you read that right) hung my 11 yr old autistic daughter, he drinks and drives and while driving on a suspended license with the kids in the car, he is verbally abusive to all three kids, and finally, they have admitted to saying things about me and the kids family, there is a 36 page text he sent to their grandmother that is deplorable that in it he admits he told the kids exactly what he was saying, and my ex has said " the kids now know the "real" you." My ex in the past has had the nasty habit of running around nude in front of our son, and it is alleged that she allows her new hubby to do likewise, and finally my daughters (mainly the 11 yr old) have been displaying signs of sexual abuse.

OK.

More questions bc I'm confused.

I don't understand why you don't have shared custody of the girls too. 

Why haven't you been enforcing the shared custody agreement through the courts from the beginning.

  Has your ex been denying you access to your son?  I guess so, since you're on this board....I'm just trying to understand what's going on and what documentation you have to base your case on.

Why isn't there a visitation order in place for all minor children?

Do you have a living arrangement where you can live with the children?  Is that a problem for you now?

This is helpful, hhaw.

GR, allegations against your sisters are not allegations against you, unless the allegation is that you knew about and condoned the hitting, and permitted it to recur.

I know my sister had swatted my daughter on the bottom but did not allow it to recur and my sister had actually agreed with and received advice from me and others and had been working wonderfully with my daughter up until my ex took her back. As for the custody that is a long story....I fought with her for the entirety of the children's lives to establish my rights and she would refuse or set it up then cancel at the last minute. It took eleven yrs and the State pushing it for my son to get man and me to get any type of custody of him, and another 4 yrs for it to be filed. She and honestly the state we lived in had me convinced I had no power to enforce anything without her compliance.

OK:

I understand why the attorney was frustrated and I want you to know this isn't a criticism. This is just a heads up..... I can make neither heads nor tails from the information you wrote, G.

You didn't answer all the questions.

It seems you still don't understand what your rights are and I understand that. I was run around the bush by a civil attorney pretenting to practice family law once upon  time.  Each attorney I hired from that point had something different to say and they all dropped the ball in at least one way, typically many many many ways. 

Here's the thing....the laws are fairly straight forward, but attorneys "interpret" them in their own ways, often twisting them beyond identification.

I'm wondering if there's not a message board in your State for custody and visitation suits and information. 

From my own experiences, the courts want to split the baby down the middle, give each parent something to gripe about, make sure no one is happy, nudity only matters IF there's sexual abuse involved and parent's failure to communicate about medications matters to some Judges A LOT.  Some Judges don't care much about safety issues..... seatbelts, child seats, etc and some do.  An older male white Judge actually threw our children's T off the stand when she kept laying out the safety issues she identified against my PDs....... and then that Judge threw out all the laws and rules and oaths he took and ruled against me.

It was shocking, BUT my attorney made sure to put everything that Judge failed to do and wasn't supposed to do was read INTO the Court record so we'd win on Appeal and the Judge would have egg on his face when it happened. Judges hate to be reversed on Appeal. They hate it.  In this case, our Judge reversed himself very quickly, I suspect his very pregnant file clerk forced him, but that's just a hunch.  In any case, he reverseed himself then forced demanded we try the case again, which was expensive and gave the PDs a chance to hire an expert witness to refute the children's T, who was a terrible witness on the stand, but also hated by the Judge bc he hated me and was actually trying the PD's case FOR them.....it was kind of crazy, but sometimes things go that way. Judges are human.  GALs are human.  Court Appointed Ts are human and they tend to be jaded, overwhelmed and sometimes very bitter creatures. 

They don't know who to believe, so it's up to us to spell things out and make sense of them.  Never get caught saying something you can't back up with evidence and keep things as simple as you can.

I wish you luck

That's what I don't get? What was not to understand, she and the state we lived in made it clear I could not enforce custody unles she agreed ands she me er would I fought with her obverse it for  the entire time my children have been alive. Please tell me what about that statement is hard to understand?

I apologize I wasn't trying be angry I'm not I'm trying to figure out how I can be more clear and I did answer all the questions or thought I did

I reread my post some of it was typos, and that's not how I spoke to the attorney but it's hard to speak to someone about anything when they flap their hands at you and cut you off after 2 words. But anyway I am trying to get everything in order and get through this. But I'm starting to feel like just giving up because most of what she did I have no proof of and what I do have proof of obviously isn't going to matter in court, I just don't know what to do anymore. As for my son she (andI have texts proving this) swore the papers we signed in court were not what they ultimately turned out to be. And I didn't find out until four years later what custody I did actually have of him. And the court convinced me when we were addressing my sons situation that nothing needed to be done with the girls because we lived together. I have since then been pushing for the enforcement of my rights.

That's the best you can do, G and all you should expect from yourself.

I'm sure you've always done your best, as have we all.

Asking the court for clarity and any other relief you can get sounds like a good idea. You're doing that.

The question I asked and didn't see you answer was about your current housing situation and if it's set up to have visits or custody of the children. 

I don't think you understand what happened with the legals and that's part of the reason you're having trouble explaining it.

The court might explain the legals to you at the hearing and you should ask for everything you feel will benefit your children.... you don't know what the court will do,but you can depend on your ex to be who she is.

IF you give up now..... who will your children have to protect them?

I'm not giving up, I'm just so overwhelmed, I started having chest pains and waking up with massive headaches acouple weeks ago, The housing situation right now is I am living with my mother until I can get a place of my own hopefully with my refund, but no there's not really enough room for the kids here.

I may be mistaken here, and if I am please disregard...I think the confusion may be that GettinTired76 and the children's mother were never married. Hhaw has asked about the custody agreement, but since there was no divorce, there is also no custody agreement.

blunk:

I think you're right and I'm not trying to put more pressure on G. I want him to practice making sense of his evidece and putting forth a story people can make sense of before he goes to court.  The best thing my next to last civil attorney did for me was press me so I proved my case to her.....bc she constantly threatened to abandon or sabotage me and it was truly motivational, meant I pulled together my evidence, found a way to make sense of it as she ignored me just before trial and refused to help with trial prep UNTIL I pulled all my evidence together and made it easy for her to leaf through and find things.

I'm not saying it was good for my mental health. I'm saying her tactics shot me full of adrenaline and motivated me to do everything I possibly could to help myself.... and then....and usually after she'd broken and rendered me feeling powerles, did she pull up a chair to strategize and help me finish trial prep, mark exhibits and discuss all the positive things my case had going for it. 

I don't want to take G apart like that.... I would NEVER DO that to him, but  I want him to be as prepared as he can be for the upcoming hearing so his children have a better shot at getting the protections and visitation or change in custody or SOME kind of custody arrangement that benefits them.   If I don't understand the case, then it's hoped G DOES.  If G doesn't, it's hoped discusions like this one will help him nail down his case, understand his rights and line up his evidence to support the statutes he's counting on.  He needs to understand and talk about it so his listeners can follow and square it up.... it has to make sense.

G:  You're body is buckling undr the stress and pressure..... mine did too.  So many odd thing pop up.  So many unexpected symtpoms and distressing physical pains....... and they can feel like heart attacks, keep you on the floor, unable to get up.... fight or flight, freeze or fawn survival brain actually believes a danger, like a real TIGER, is chasing us!!   Our bodies are REACTING like there's a tiger chasing us!  That's a huge biochemical hijack in your system you CAN'T possibly think your way ot of. The more you try, the deeper you sink into the hijack, IME.  I'm writing this to give you hope, not knock the hope out of you and I'll try to explain better so you can make sense of what I'm telling you.... things I wish I could have understood when I was headed into court,  but didn't understand. 

Years after my court battles ended,  my trauma informed T taught me different ways to calm myself down.... breathing strategies was the first one.

Begin by settling yourself comfortably in a chair, sofa or on the floor, eyes closed, breathe in 10X, slowly, thru your nose, filling lungs from bottom to the top...like a vase.  Think about where you have  distress/pain in the body, then breathe again 10X same way .  Check your body/distress again..... find it.... put your hands on it..... usually it's in the chest, stomach or throat area.... sometimes the back in my case.

Name the pain/pressure... sharp?  Throbbing?  Burning?  Give it a number from 1-10 for intensity.

Again, Breathe 10X while focusing on the pain, just breathe slowly in thru your nose, bottom of lungs to the top. 

If it improves..... repeat the breathing excercise until the pain is gone or stops improving.  Once it's gone, open your eyes and notice the shapes and colors around you.  Take them in and continue breathing.  Notice the sounds and smells next.  Notice the cushion you're seated on... the space around you, beside and above and below you.  Breathe into that space and notice the space all the say into the universe..... vast and large... so much spaciousness. 

If the breathing doesn't help at all, focus on a part of your body that's feeling nuetral to you and go through the breathing process again.....

Breathe 10X focused on the neutral part of your body (Shins? Knees?)

check your pain

continue if things get better

If they don't improve, go push on a doorjamb with everything you have.... just push an breathe and PUSH.  Survial brain wants to ACT and escape the danger.....survival brain believes there's a tiger chasing it...for real, so PUSH and DO so the survival brain can calm down then....

try the breathing bottom to top of lungs 10X again.

Focus on the pain in your body.  Put your hands on it. Name it.  Give it a number.... yes, we're back to that, but it takes practice and hearing the same things again and again for them to become familiar, then possible, then to practice them and discover the unexpected relief they can provide, IME. 

Breathe 10X then check the pain again and often you'll find the pain gets better or goes away completely.  This was my experience. 

Sometimes it helps to picture breathing spaciousness around the pain, creating more space around it, expanding space...I picture pink cotton going into that space.

My T says this is unhooking the wires to the fight or flight survival brain which makes it possible to access higher brain functions again....logic, reason and creative problem solving skills which we all need very much when we have the least access to them in these situation.

A little more information to make sense of this...... if our brain thinks it sees a tiger in the jungle, it shuts down access to higher brain function/frontal lobe processing bc higher brain wants to make sure there's a tiger....wants to process the information around us.

Survival brain is primitive and REACTS to get us away from the danger. If you've ever been walking and thoght you saw a snake,notice you'll find you've moved many yards down the trail before you discover there was no snake...it was just a stick appearing like a snake.  Now the amygdala has been activated,  one is already shifted into fight or flight mode and reason, discernment and creative problem solving skills have left us. 

To get out of fight or flight we have to sneak up under it, activate the part of our body responsible for shutting off fight or flight, the Parasympathetic Nervous System (PSNS) 

It's OK to be overwhelmed but it's OK to understand you can cultivate practices to gain control over your emotions, expand your window of resilience and regain access to your frontal cortex after you've lost it.

Starting the morning out by ending your shower with water as cold as you can take for as long as you can stand will engage your PSNV.

Splashing cold water on the face helps.

Humming helps.... humming has always been a coping strategy my body defaulted to well before I understood it was a coping strategy to engage PSNV.  Our bodies are very wise.

Gargling deeply helps.

Pushing on doorjambs, walking backwards around a trash can, kissing the earth with slow mindful steps...... sitting in nature, figuring out our happy place........ if our brains think of a place and focus on it..... bring sights and sounds and smells and texture to the thoughts...... our brains are tricked into believing we're actually IN that place whether it's the beach, a meadow, a room, a bathtub, a pond, a moss covered forest..... our minds can be tricked into believing we're actually THERE.

For me, it took many sessions for me to discover my happy place, bc the trauma was so IN MY FACE.... felt so PRESENT.... every thought lead back to the trauma or some loss associated with anything happy I could think of.

Finally finally finally I sat with the task of discovering my happy place until I found it in the form of a big lush garden I'd cultivated when single and when my youngest dd was a baby. I had nothing but good associations around THAT..... walking outside, going through the door onto the wood deck, into the yard... noticing the grass, the sound of the summer insects, smelling the big lush tomato plants before I arrived at the garden.... touching the plants, picking up a basket and harvesting ripe warm tomatoes for the people I loved at that time........ noticing the texture of the tomato vines.... the lovely green smell of them...... noticing the blue sky above and fluffy clouds...... feeling the dirt with my hands feet, wiggling my toes in it...... tending to the vines... tying them up with cotton strips..... you get the picture.

Find your happy place, G and spend time going there....... see what calming strategies might work best for you. 

If nothing works at all.... try crossing your arms over your chest and gently patting your collar bones, like you're calming a baby.

Be super gentle with yourself..... cultivate tsuamis of self compassion.

Drop all judgements around EVERYTHING, inclluding the court hearing.  Just pay attention to what comes up around it.  Whatever comes up..... tend to it like you're tending to a child and continue to not judge.... just be very curious about it.

And breathe, G....... breathe until you notice you're doing it without thinking....... so you notice you're doing it in traffic or sitting on the sofa thinking about what you have to do that day..... breathe and know you're putting new brain pathways in place.  The more you tend to them, the stronger they'll get.

Not gonna lie..... changing our brain's default setting's takes energy and time and consistent practice..... we're practicing our entire lives.  Elderly monks never stop practicing..... we're all practicing.

If you continue practicing you'll notice some amazing and unexpected changes happen for you.  Hopefully you'll get visitation and custody figured out and have access to your children again soon.

Everything you're learning...... how to do what you can then put the story on the shelf and focus on joyful things
INSTEAD of WORRY WORRY WORRY coping strategies that break us down and make us sick.....
you can model for your children. 

You can research healthy boundaries and how to enforce those boundaries, G.... then learn, model and teach them to the kids.

Teaching is the next step in learning, so this is the perfect time for you to begin....while the children have a window of opportunity to learn healthier family dynamics....before they're seekign out mates and forming families of their own.

You CAN impact their lives, and your own, positively.  Anyone can and.  This is hopeful and something for you to think about when you have racing mind syndrome worry worry worrying without being able to escape it.

Practive sitting the worry down, physically putting THE COURT STUFF on a shelf and turning towards whatever appeals to you..... something I've mentioned OR something personal to you......but you're creating spaciousness AROUND the stress.

You're creating spaciousness to get your nose off the pebble of the court stuff, in this case.  When our nose is ON a pebble of worry, the pebble is EVERYTHING, taking up all our vision and attention and we can't get any perspective to notice the other pebbles, the trees, the rivers and brooks and dirt and grass.

The tecniques listed above are just some you can try out to create enough spaciousness to get our nost OFF your pebble and SEE it's just a pebble among many other pebbles...... you don't have to live with your nose glued to a PD pebble.

Part of your PD's strength is her ability to frighten and terrorize you INTO fight or flight survival brain mode..... and your ability to calm yourself down is a defense to her terror.

So breathing.........
patting your collar bones arms crossed over your chest, like soothing a baby...
noticing your body sensations and breathing into them......
pushing on door jambs.....
cold water at the end of a shower.......
finding and visiting your happy place.......
walking backwards around a trash can very slowly, focusing on your breathing......
walking very slowly into nature...... feeling your heel hit, then your toe.... pretending you're kissing the earth with each touch....

Something here should appeal more than others and so you just begin....

drop all judgment

give yourself tons of self compassion

get very curious about your thoughts and what you're doing... what others are doing and saying..... don't judge anymore at all

when you forget something, oh well..... notice it, forgive yourself and go back to focusing on what you'd like to focus on

When you're in the courthouse, make sure you take some time to sit somewhere private and go through whatever calming tactics you can manage.  Focus on a neutral part of your body, maybe?  Breathe into it. It's pretty simple and doesn't require much focus, IME.

  Law enforcement agents are taught tactical breathing..... breathe in 4 seconds, hold 4 seconds, breathe out 4 seconds during times of stress and fire fights, etc.  Whatever works for you..... practice it, but try some of the things from above and see how they feel.

Whatever your situation is..... it's better than your children living wiith an abusive man without any protections at all, IME.  I was made afraid about how my children's beds were made during our custody stuff.... and it didn't really matter.

If a check is made to your residence by DFCS, all they're really looking for is if there's food in the fridge, is there a place for the children to do homework and play, do they have a safe place to sleep?  All the children don't need their own bedroom to be considered safe, IME.  Get creative with sleeping arrangements but have answers, the best you can, and present them calmly, like you're talking to an anxious bird, and keep it just that simple........ so simple. Just the hamburger, not the bun or condiments or veggies, right?

Word things so a small child can understand.... that means you're clarifying all your thoughts and evidence and stories down to the simplest form....... then stop talking.  The more you write this out, the more you practice in front of a mirror.....the more you learn to bring yourself BACK to the hamburger and present moment the better chance you have of being understood,IME.

And you remaining level and calm in the courtroom will likely drive your PD bathshot crazy, IME.  You're PD is depending on unhinging you with her lies and stories and chaos manufacture... all the confusion she's managed to create over the years.

Think how much power you'll have over yourself, the PD and the Court hearing IF you master yourself and your thoughts and stay calm.... at least appear calm, even if you aren't. I know it's difficult. I know you'll hear things that make you want to drop your jaw, shake yuor head and point to the PD as the liar she is, but you have to keep your face straight, make notes about dealing with what she just said and put your hands on any documents you have to refute her story.

Rinse and repeat.

By virtue of remaining level and calm, not finger pointing or name calling.... you already appear more stable than your ex.

If you always remember to speak about her with compassion....... you'll avoid appearing like an angry ex trying to make his ex look bad while she's doing and saying everything she can to make you look bad and punish you.... the Judge will likely take note of this and give your words more weight, IME.

If you always go back to the children's best interests.... again and again, without getting upset.... you will show the Judge what your priority IS.  Your PD will do what she's always done and it's up to you to SHOW the court who you are, not let the PD narrative unhinge you so you appear like the person she says you are.

Often, when things don't look great for the PD, the PD will become very angry at the judge or you and that usually works in your favor as long as you aren't gloating or getting upset back.... just stay calm and keep making notes.... keep looking at whatever you brought to remind you what your missions.

Have a note with your mission statement:
Speak calmly, like you're addressing a child
Give only the burger,never the bun then stop talking. I had a bracelet I touched to remind me and bring me back to the mission.  Speak slow and calm, just the hamburger and stop talking.  Short and sweet.  Stop.
Alwas treat stupid or offensive questions or statements as an opportunity to educate.  Be kind, helpful and compassionate to everyone in that coutroom, G.
Once you become snarky or defensive you're losing your Judge, likely.  If you need a break you can ask for one....respectfully.  It's OK to ask for water or for a bathroom break. You'll get 10 minutes and you should use them wisely.... happy place or focus on the neutral part of your body but you breathe yourself calm and maybe choose a bathroom on another floor of the courthoue so the ex's husband isn't following you into the bathroom and upsetting you when it's imperative you find your center and calm yourself. 

You can go to the courthouse early or several days ahead and map out the courtroom you'll be in, where several bathrooms are, where the cafeteria is, bc you might end up having lunch in the middle of your hearing...... just don't sit near the PDs.  Maybe grab something and go to a quiet spot outside or on another floor..... you'll only have a half an hour, so make the most of it.  Regroup, nourish yourself, drink plenty of water, if you can bring a bottle of water intot he courtroom, do so.  They won';t allow anything but water, likely. 

When the bailiff asks you why you're there, tell him you're on the docket, give your name.  He'll have you sit somewhere in the courtroom, waiting for your turn OR he'll have you wait outside the courtroom.... just do as he asks and stay busy with your notes or calming strategies.  You're enough, G.  You can make yourself safe, even when the PDs are nearby.  Just avoid any eye contact at all..... I once smiled and waved to opposing counsel... I didn't even see the PDs staning nearby and so the story became me gloating and smiling and waving AT the PDs instead of the truth.... I was just out of my mind nervous and hurrying to the Courtroom and not at all prepared to find myself face to face with the PDs........ like I said, I didn't even SEE them, just their attorney, so be prepared to see the PDs.  Be prepared to ignore their glaring at you, or saying terrible things under their breath to you or out loud to you and make sure you head to a bathroom on a different floor so you aren't further freaked out or startled or triggered in the bathroom. 

There's no one policing the hallways or bathrooms and opposing litigants end up close to each other, face to face in bathrooms IF they aren't thinking ahead and being proactive.  Be aware of your surroundings.  Have something in your hands to focus on.  If you make eye contact, accidentally, just nod and look away or look away with zero emotion. 

You won't have many jobs when you're in the courtroom, but staying level and calm is at the top of your list.

When you're case is up, you'll go to whichever table the bailiff points you to.  Bring all your evidence, likely in boxes with lids, settle them, settle yourself, have your water and notepad and pen ready. A folder to put copies of any evidence you place into the court record..... one to the court, one to you and one to the PD or her attorney.  Make notes about it on the file folder you place it in. 

Place evidence your ex instroduces into the record IN that file as well or have a second file folder for that.  Make notes about each piece of evidence.

it is hoped you can produce enough evidence to show the Judge you are always telling the truth while the PD isn't producing any evidence to back up her crazy stories, over and over again.   Try to form your story around the evidence you have.  It really helps keep your story clear and simple....... to show the Judge you're a truth teller. 

That's why you allege what you can prove....... and I don't know how you prove what the DCFS case worker discovers.  i don't know how you prove what a child said was done to her, but you can get affidavits signed and notarized by witnesses or people who have information that will help your case IF witnesses aren't going to be called.   You can speak to a domestic violence organization or several of them and find out what you CAN do.  Get ideas. You can bring a domestic violence advocate WITH you to the hearing and they'll help shield you, steer you, keep you on track and aware of your rights.

I know this bc my PDs brought one with them to one of the last days of one of the trials..... and that lady was all over me. She actually made something up and told the judge I'd done something... she was fierce and I wish that for you too....it never occurred to me to go to the domestic violence groups or ask for that kind of help, bc I was too freaked out and unable to problem solve very well, but you can DO that for yourself now.   I took a class on handling a divorce better for the children's sake,but I don't recall resources being easy to find.  FIND yours.  Ask for help and advice and what usually happens in these caess like yours and ask about your Judge and can you have someone attend your hearing WITH you? 

You can have any supporters who help you stay level attend that hearing with you.... just make sure they're not going to get upset or draw negative attention or upset you in the courtroom. 

But breathe and remember the mission.  Maybe take a photo of your children with you to remind you what you;re fighting for and stick with the burger the burger the burger. It's for the kids the kids the kids.  Breathe, breathe breathe... tecnical breathing, like law enforcement agents under fire.

You do your best then put the story on the shelf and release the outcome.  Suspect expectation and you'll notice you have more clarity, more choice, more ability to see the entire picture...nose off the pebble.

That's a lot, but I wish someone had put all that down for me 15 years ago and explained it.

I wish you the best possible outcome for you and your childre, G

Your right Blunk however a custody agreement was drawn up and filed for my son she's just ignoring it. And thank you very much your advice does help a lot h.

I had a very enlightening conversation with my daughter's GAL today, they may very well be escalating my daughters case to an abuse and neglect case. Seems my ex thinks she can disregard a court order on a whim.

I'm liking the GAL.

What court order is that, G?

They had ordered that my daughter be psychologically evaluated, my ex skipped the court appointed appointment.

It's actually the county my ex lives in's CPS that is pissed at her and wanting to escalate the GAL just happens to agree

It appears your ex isn't even trying to fool court officers at this point.

Let's see how that works for her.

My thought exactly but again self sabotage has always been a big thing with her, (observation) so she can sit back and complain about how awful things are and how everyone is after her. Eh*shrugs

Let's hope she self sabotage completely! Good luck G, this is starting to look a bit more promising.

I couldn't agree more, I was reading through the text her husband sent her her mom, I actually think my ex wrote it pretending to be him, the wording was exact phrasing that she has used on me. I've studied linguistics and speech patterns, it's amazing what you can catch when you study how some talks lol. And and persons texting style can be a dead giveaway too.

Quote from: Gettintired76 on February 12, 2022, 04:46:12 AM
I couldn't agree more, I was reading through the text her husband sent her her mom, I actually think my ex wrote it pretending to be him, the wording was exact phrasing that she has used on me. I've studied linguistics and speech patterns, it's amazing what you can catch when you study how some talks lol. And and persons texting style can be a dead giveaway too.

My uBPD/NPDw does that, she sends me texts pretending to me my daughter but using the exact words and phrases as she would user when she text me from her own phone. They really don't understand.

Couldn't agree more

Your ex asked about child support, you said.

Is there a legal agreement for child support or is she just squeezing you?

If legal, which child or children is it for?

If it's your son, you said you have 50/50 legal custody. (That you are not getting).

If it's your daughters, you have no custody agreement in place for them.

I finished my obligation in child support for my son there is no agreement for my daughters. So technically right now there aren't any agreement s on any of them.

Omg I'm excited for Thursday but I'm scared as hell to. I don't know which way to go lol. I'll let everyone know how it went.

Excited and scared is the logical way to feel!! I hope it's a turning point for something much better.

Me too square, is it wrong of me to hope the judge is black because of my ex's hubby's racist rant at her mother? LoL I don't particularly think it's going to go over very well anyway.

G:

How do you not yet know who the Judge assigned to the case is? 

I haven't been given squat, the only reason I even know there is a hearing is because I personally called the GAL, my ex nor anybody else has told me anything. All I know is that the judge is a woman. That's it.

Let's hope that either way, the judge does not appreciate racist statements, or child abuse, or child neglect.

Good luck! I hope to hear a great update tomorrow night!

The State took legal custody of my daughter today, her mother still has physical custody of her, she has one more chance and they take her completely

I wanted more, but that's progress.

I wonder why they didn't at least order 50% physical custody for you.

It seems like they are going on the assumption she has 100% custody when there really isn't any agreement giving her that.

In her county she has them believing he's the custodial father so they wouldn't even hardly speak to me

I guess I don't understand how, with you being the father (and so named on the birth certficate), and no legal agreement nullifying your access, how she can "convince" anyone that you have no custody. And it's a legal matter, not just something she can BS on.

Perhaps it's just a state law I'm not familiar with, that fathers have zero claim unless married to the mother (or custody secured in the court).

You need to find out asap what you can do to receive custody should your ex lose it. Because at this rate we're looking at foster care, and you want to avoid that if at all possible.

I mean, I know you are seeking custody, but what if in one month she loses it. I don't know anything, but could you right now be going through the process of being approved as a foster care provider yourself?

My DD's best friend was raised by her grandmother when CPS took her away from her parents. The grandmother had to be approved by CPS or something.

So I don't know anything but this is where my mind is going.

Or how close are you to petitioning for custody?

She claims she had a meeting with CPS after the hearing and they had done a video interview with Autumn yesterday and she made allegations against me and my sister but they wouldn't tell her what, just that they advised her to keep the kids away from until the investigation is over. What investigation I don't know.

She claimed that your DD had made allegations?

I'm guessing your ex's story is way overblown.

But you urgently need to get lined up for custody. From what you're telling me, even if your ex loses custody, you're not on the list.

Anyone you can contact, the GAL, the CPS contact, anyone, make sure they know you seek custody and ask what you need to do.

And did the meeting with the custody counselor on Monday yield anything?

She missed the appointment Monday then I missed the reschedule today. The judge told they set a the first meeting in an emergency but they didn't have my contact number which is funny because CPS and the school both have my number and address.The GAL and the court have my number and address now, so no more excuses. My ex swears CPS sat and told her everything I said and added some stuff (I never once told them they were useless). She did know everything I told them tho although I don't think I said anything about drugs. She claims they had a good laugh at me ( funny how that seems to be with everyone she meets). That's what she always says to try to devalue me or shut me down.

Right, what she says to you is 100% manipulation. She is fishing, devaluing you, trying to convince you that you've lost, that you have no standing, etc. It's just a boatload of crapola. Just a sample of the crapola floating around her head.

So do you have a new meeting scheduled or you're expecting to hear tomorrow? If you don't hear by afternoon you'd be smart to call them, before the weekend.

She is claiming now that "the professionals" have declared my daughter is a sociopath and not autistic, that she is evil and manipulative and should be given up on for the safety of the other two.

Lies.

Btw, if you have that over text, the "professionals" should be quite interested in that statement from the mother.

I do and an admission she she left the kids for over two months here and at their trailer up the street. But everything has been I did something to my D or my family. It's our fault she lost custody yada yada yada she can't do anything now and oh well at least now she'll get what she needs.

I know it's easy for me to say and another thing to do it, but don't give her crap any space in your head. She is just manipulating you, nothing more.

What matters is evidence. I can't promise the system is fair or gets it right but evidence is what is supposed to matter. She can flap her gums all she wants but she's already looking like an unhinged liar to them - as she lost legal custody and is on probation for physical.

You can't stop her from making up stories about how it's your fault. But that's all it is. Stories.

She's spiraling. She is not in a strong position at all.

You could get into a strong position. You have the opportunity.

Don't take the lies of liars on board. Make a plan. Execute the plan.

On it!

 8-) :applause: ;D :phoot: :banana: :uhhuh: :sunny: :thewave:

I spoke to CPS, they are pissed at her, they are actually getting the Director involved. None of what she said is true, and her saying they are catering to her and giving her confidential information could compromise every case they are working on. They said there are not now or ever been any accusations made against me or my family by her or my daughter, there is no nor has there ever been an investigation against me. They will be getting in contact with the school board here in my county to see that she can not be trusted with home school, and I told them explicitly what my plan was for my daughter, which they agreed wholeheartedly with. The supervisor is totally in with me on this. Oh and they never EVER said my baby was a sociopath and to give up on her. I wouldn't give up on her anyway, even is she was. Sociopaths can be treated and controlled in the proper environment, it's a mental disorder not a crime or death sentence.

Remember this, next time she talks to you remember how it's always just lies lies lies. You may sort of believe her but then you always get confirmation that it's lies. Remember it so the lies don't affect you as much in the future.

I am glad you got confirmation of the lies. And of course they didn't say DD was a sociopath and to give up on her.

I knew she wasn't hell she cried for four hours after watching Benji the Hunted simply because he got left out in the rain, lol the child has the biggest heart of anyone I ever met.

Yeah, I can definitely believe that  :)

With everything going on at court the other day the one thing that was on her mind was her dog and cat she wanted to make sure they were ok.

What a sweetie she is.

I plan on suing her county's  Social services and school board for infringement of rights they lied to me and the court they told the judge they didn't have my contact information after I gave it all to them the day after the "incident". Oh and my daughter the sociopath? Fell asleep in court. SMH

I thought the sociopath thing was a lie from your ex.

That is, they lied to me about keeping me in the loop and calling me about stuff. The were negligent when they handed him custodial rights without checking whether there were any orders in effect at the time.

I understand your anger, Gettintired76. But because so much is going on with your children, I recommend focusing first on protecting them (keeping them safe, getting visitation and custody, and so on).

G:
You might need a spot of cooperation from the school and faculty, which is typically not available, IME.

IF they'll be willing to make statements about your ex, perhaps you can forgive them for falling down on the job bc your ex gave them false and misleading information.  It's not the schools job to sort out custody orders and visitation arrangments. It's the job of the parents to get in there and advocate for themselves and their children,IME.

Don't get me wrong....I'd be upset too,but you have to look at this realistically.  Do you have the resources, time and mental capacity to to start a battle on a second front? Things get very confusing quickly.  The school might do what they can to punish you rather than make their mistake right and do their best by you.

Yeah I agree with both you completely thank you for leveling me out your absolutely right. And I finally found a lawyer who seems to give a @&%#.He is going to handle it Pro Bono. Keep wishing me luck I absolutely need it.

Congrats on finding an attorney who cares about your children, G.

IME, that's an imortant piece in the legal battle. 

If he's worth his salt, he'll phrase the importance of the situation to the school so they feel compelled to rat out the ex and her husband as the CAUSE of the confusion over custody and your rights. 

I don't understand what you told the school or what they told you.  I hope you documented the communication so it's easy to sort out and SHOW the Court how wires got crossed.

You want the school to advocate for your children and do the right thing,which the attorney will explain, IME.

If you provoke and threaten them they'll batten down the hatches and have their own attorney run interference for them.  That may be how they handle it anyway.

Did you document communcation with the school? Send e mails with contact information and a copy of the custody order? Fill out paperwork stating who was allowed to pick the children up in carpool and who wasn't?

Well done, G. 

Sounds like progress.

How did you find this attorney and why did he say he was handling your case>?

The attorney sounds great, really happy.

I agree you should just stay on a suuuuuper friendly noncombative basis with the school, school board, and social services. But I understand the feeling of frustration.

Unfortunately as of right now nothing is documented I have only spoken to my daughter's school twice and they asked for my contact info and some medical info my ex left out as well as a possible explanation for both of my daughters disaster of an academic history. I don't have as much of a problem with the school as I do one particular caseworker at CPS who can't seem to put her bias feelings behind her.

G:

Is the attorney representing you in an actual Court Action? 

Is there a case you plan to file or one that's already begun and you're joining as a party?

Do you understand what the attorney is going to do for you? 

What did he say he'd do?

How did you find him?

Why did he say he'd take your case?

If your ex is failing to comply with an enforcable Court Order..... the court will force compliance.

I have the feeling you believed lies the ex told you and felt powerless..... you stepped back for a while?  Is that what happened and now you're stepping back in to sort the truth and protect your children from their mom and her husband?

I never believed her and I never stepped back I have been fighting since January just to get answers but she somehow gave him (her husband) custodial rights so I have now been left effectively out of the loop. Lol your rapid firing questions at me I don't quite know how to answer.

G:

I don't understand what case, if any, this attorney is representing you in.  I'm not sure you understand what this attorney will be doing for you?  Is he filing a new case on your behalf?  Are you filing a contempt charge against the PD for her failure to comply with the 50/50 custody Order?  Are you entering into an existing case involving the PD and DCFS? 

The questions about the attorney have to do with WHY this attorney took an interest in your case ..... sometimes the PDs overplay their hand and bring fiery anger down on their heads from attorneys who might otherwise not care at all if the PD had been a little more subtle, IME.

Your ex doesn't seem like the subtle type to me.  My real interest is whether or not the PD DID something TO YOU that seemed really bad, but turned out to be a blessing in disguise bc this attorney was moved to advocate for you bc of the PD's bad act.  It's best not to assume anything is good or bad until everything is over, IME.  I wish I'd known that 15 years ago.

About the rapid fire questions..... expect many from your attorney and a Judge if you get that far. 

Practice giving just the hamburger, without the bun..... and do so without evading questions.  It's very easy to ramble around, in and out of rabbit holes when we've been through abuse.  It can drive attorneys and Judges and expert witnesses nuts when they're used to YES and NO answers.   It takes mindfulness an practice to figure out how to stay focused on hamburger answers to edcuate your audience without creating more problems than you already had, IME.  I'm pretty sure I never mastered the YES or NO...... but I did manage to give hamburgers and resist getting defensive.  Super important, IME.

You find a way to give as much information with as few words as possible.  Always treat my questions as rhetorical..... answer them if you feel like it or don't.  As a parent.... everything is connected and every threat is overwhelming..... it's difficult to keep coming back to the hamburger and appearing level.  You can do it.

When we remain calm.... we're more responsive and have more choice about what we share and when..... attorneys and Judges expect a VERY SHORT answer....and you better give it when they ask for it, IME.  You'll have a chance to explain it, but give the short answer, even if it sounds bad at the time.  Don't get defensive.  Treat every question, even the upsetting ones as an opportunity to educate your audience.  There's a time and place to ramble...... you can ramble all you want on the board. That's what it's for, iME. 

My ex lost custody of my daughter due to neglect (failure to meet educational and medical requirements) the attorney is taking the case to try to help me get custody of her and her siblings. This attorney will be helping me file the paperwork needed to seek custody as well as speak for me in court. And no I don't think my ex could be any less subtle subtlety was never her strong suit.

I'm thrilled to hear you confirm it's about getting custody!!

G:

I know I've pushed you on this board and want you to gain some perspective around it, if you can, bc it's helpful. 

In my last family court action,which was a custody and visitation suit, my attorney behaved very abruptly, very snarky, very doubting Tom-ish and only later did I realize there were benefits to this, as follow:

1. My attorney was facing off with me in a rougher manner than any opposing counsel was going to question or pressure me, not only firing questions at me BUT BANGING ON A glass table top so it flipped into the air OR throwing papers into my face dangerously OR yelling at me she was ditching my case and I would have NO attorney for the trial coming up....... this meant she, my very competent and cut throat attorney:

a) could see how I handle pressure under fire and...(she wanted to know if I was going to blubber or get defensive)
b) she could see if I had the evidence to back up my case bc she had zero interest in trying a case where she looked like a fool AND LOST.

Looking back, I see it was clear TO HER that wasn't going to happen and we're not dissecting her very PD behavior here, bc I disagree with tormenting a struggling parent who's children are being harmd.

What you and I are doing here....
We're looking at shifting your perspective so you can SEE what opposing counsel, a Judge and any experts WILL SEE when you speak, present evidence to back up EVERYTHING you allege and IME you should allege only those things you can prove, bc it clarifies EVERYTHING.  IF we present truths we can't back up with evidence, it's just more crazy PD noise and it makes us appear as unhinged as the PD, IME.

My hope is for you to avoid the mistakes, as you can, and put forther the most compelling case possible to advocate for your children.

IF someone fires questions at you.... esp if they're really hurtful questions that make you see RED...... I hope you figure out how to handle them BEFORE you're in front of the important people making decisions about your case.

Once you're in the Courtroom your attorney will be in acceptance mode.....
if you AND your ex lose custody of all the children.... your attorney will accept that outcome, bc he can only do what he can do.

It's really up to you and you have limited time and opportunity to convince a Judge who habitually reads the first 2 lines of any paragraph in a legal document before losing interest and moving on, bc that Judge is overwhelmed and jaded and perhaps bitter about the system and the people pleading cases before them.  Not your fault, but something you NEED to be aware of and prepared for.

THIS is what you're up against. 

So.... that said, get all you can out of your attorney.  Since you have your paperwork organized, maybe ask your attorney to play devil's advocate to help you prepare the best case possible.  Not all attorneys will sharpen their nails and dig into you to make sure they don't fall on their face. 

My attorney began caring about my case AFTER the PDs DID THINGS TO HER..... up to that point, she really didn't care about me or my children.  You have your attorney's care, not sure how much, but you seem to and that's HUGE. 

You have a small taste of someone firing questions at you with expectation. 

Envision a snarky Judge or GAL pelting you with snarky questions about the PD's accusations about the bracelet scratching your arm........ picture people assuming you abandoned your kids and ex when you left and alleging you're an unfit parent to take custody of any sort of these children NOW.... picture people alleging you have an unfit home to house your children and

1) Pull all the evidence you have to SHOW the court you're fit.

2)  Pull all the evidence you have to SHOW the court how your home will adequately house your children.... I'm talking sleeping arrangements and food plans and fire extinquisher placement in the home..... what school and morning and eveing routines and bedtimes will look like AND where the children will play and do their homework.  Photograph it and make copies an put it in your binder under housing. You'll have photos under school too...... homework station, plan to get them to school, home from school....bus stop or carpool.  Who will drive them?  Where is the bus stop?

3) Whatever you foresee being a problem, think about it ahead IF YOUR ATTORNEY ISN'T the sort to play devil's advocate, YOU picture what the ex will allege and be ready to do your best to educate your audience.

Never ever ever ever get defensive.
Always pretend you're speaking to a young child and address your listeners with a calm voice, simple words and keep everything very SHORT.  Remember KISS........ KEEP IT SIMPLE SILLY.

That's the mission and deviating from it makes it more difficult to get the jobs done, IME.

STRESS can help you pull your case together.  PANIC can destroy your ability to reason and problem solve.  Remember you're going to freak out and that's OK.  It's tunnel vision and your biochemistry will be hijacked....just accept it and KNOW you'll calm down, esp if you breathe, and the time AFTER the freak out can be very productive as far as preparing your case goes.  Adrenaline and fear are powerful motivators.

I would also add pictures of the children with you and your family to your binder.  Photos of the kids doing things they like. 

Have answers prepared regarding what you love most about each child. What you miss and what you feel you have to give to each child.  Think about each child's deepest deficit and write it out, address it and how you'll go about helping the child overcome and persevere through it.  For instance, if a child is behind in school, who will your child's teachers BE at the school in your district? What programs are available?  GO and speak to the teaches and faculty at that new school, if it's a new school and put together a plan WITH that teacher.  It it's the current school, speak to the current teachers and faculty. 

Can you get the kids into therapy?  THAT would be great.  If so, with who?  Get them on waiting lists now if there's a wait and always remember to speak in terms of KISS.  Don't get defensive.  BE the calm in the eye of the storm that's coming and KNOW you're modeling this for your children when you get them back.

Good luck, G.

And I love you for it hhaw lol you keep me thinking and moving!

folks we had to lock this for length- it's gone well past the standard 5 pages

gettingtired if you want to paste this link into a new thread to continue here's the address https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=90404.120