Awakening

[escapingman]

I am absolutely stunned and I don't know how to deal with this. DD came home from school and told me her head teacher had been talking to her, this is the same teacher that met with me and SW. She has always been very sympathetic and very much on our side. Now she had been interrogating DD pressurising her to want to see her mum, when DD kept saying no she suddenlly changed tactic and started questioning DD if I am influencing her, she kept saying no but the teacher kept pushing. In the end DD went really cross and asked why she kept pushing for her to see her mum when they don't push GC to see me, to this she answered that GC has expressed she doesn't want to see me. WOW. Different rules for different children as DD also said she didn't want to see her. Teacher then starting to tell DD how much her mum is missing her and want to see her. Unbelievable. To top it all up, teacher then asked DD if she was jealous on GC for living at MIL's house with MIL and mum. DD is now convinced that the teacher has been bribed and she is in bits.

I just can't believe I am going to have to take on the entire system to protect my girls.

[escapingman]

This might actually be it. The teacher have acted on the instructions of the social worker, and apparently what has done is not allowed. I spoke to my teacher friend and she is 100% sure they have broken the rules. I think I will make a formal complaint next week.

[hhaw]

Make sure to know exactly what the rules are so you can tailor your complaint language EXACTLY so you don't get dismissed.

[SonofThunder]

Make sure to know exactly what the rules are so you can tailor your complaint language EXACTLY so you don't get dismissed.

 
This will be very interesting to read what occurs if you are correct EM and rules were broken.  Agree fully on hhaw's advice and being very professional and thorough about the follow through. If STBX had any coercion tactics on the SW to act in that unprofessional manner, the SW may reveal it as this plays out.

EM, will your attorney/solicitor be made aware and potentially involved in your formal complaint as well?  #truthwar

SoT

[escapingman]

I am going to get advice next week on how to proceed, if it takes another week so be it, it will only give them time to mess up even more. I could clearly see how the SW had bought into STBX reality in the last meeting and now has got the teacher on her side. Since they are running their agenda based on lies I can't see how they can win, they may push DD so far it really ends up with egg in their faces as they truly believe I am alienating her. The way they treat the two girls differently is something I would love to see them defend when questioned.

[SonofThunder]

The way they treat the two girls differently is something I would love to see them defend when questioned.

...by a lawyer?  In front of a judge? 

My stbx (when privately questioned), lies, defends, manipulates and tries to shut down the truth. You dont know the emotional makeup of the SW.  Imo, a lawyer confronting In front of the public record and a judge, would be great imo, in your case.   If you covertly and truthfully find out laws are being broken, and that the SW and teacher are being possibly coerced through stbx's skills, using GC as a tool in coercion to emotionally abuse you through their aim at DD, I believe you may have a valid lawsuit. You may also validate the need for a protective order during the lawsuit and beyond, for both you and DD and possibly GC as well! 

A lawsuit such as this, may bring up recorded testimony of the lies that have been told by stbx, to coerce the SW, therefore stbx exposed.  You're going to spend the money either way EM, giving it her in alimony/distribution or using it on a lawyer if you have a really valid legal case against the system, including stbx. 

Protecting children who cannot defend themselves, is imo the goal  and through that necessary goal, exposing stbx and all involved and therefore ultimately, how both GC and DD need legal protection.

SoT

[hhaw]

Again, having your very best evidence in a binder, ready to deploy when lodging your complaint with the head of the school, whomever manages the SW, your attorney, etc is very helpful, ime to explain/prove your case, as you go, so you're never giving facts you can't or haven't proven.

Not sure how to include the taped abuse, but seems relevant to me.  Very.

[escapingman]

I am not sure which route I will go down, but I will take advice and go down whichever route seems the best. Honestly not sure I want to use the same legal team as I think they were to "nice" in the end. Next week I will talk with a charity in the UK specialising in this kind of things, hopefully they have some good advice.

[hhaw]

Ask the bikers for referrals, maybe.

[SonofThunder]

Again, having your very best evidence in a binder, ready to deploy when lodging your complaint with the head of the school, whomever manages the SW, your attorney, etc is very helpful, ime to explain/prove your case, as you go, so you're never giving facts you can't or haven't proven.

Not sure how to include the taped abuse, but seems relevant to me.  Very.

+1

SoT

[escapingman]

STBX, MIL and GC are behaving more and more irate and DD is getting more and more angry with them and the whoke situation. Apparently GC is forwarding everything she post on one of the social media platforms, moat likely to STBX. She is getting very upset about this and confronted GC with a message, after denying it (you can see it as marked as forwarded) she replied that she,was crying her eyes out following such accusations  - identical language as STBX would use so we both know who is sending the messages and us in charge of the phone. I think we are getting closer to armageddon.

[SonofThunder]

STBX, MIL and GC are behaving more and more irate and DD is getting more and more angry with them and the whoke situation. Apparently GC is forwarding everything she post on one of the social media platforms, moat likely to STBX. She is getting very upset about this and confronted GC with a message, after denying it (you can see it as marked as forwarded) she replied that she,was crying her eyes out following such accusations  - identical language as STBX would use so we both know who is sending the messages and us in charge of the phone. I think we are getting closer to armageddon.

Imo, that kind of smoke-screen of negative and petty activity is to keep you busy in that area while stbx flanks you through the SW and school system, based on your prior conversations,  which is a smart move by your stbx. 

I would advise you to not focus on the smoke-screening through the use of your kids, and stay hyper-focused on potential law-breaking through the SW and school, which if is true, could really expose your stbx in the legal public record. Your mental time and focus is also energy spent, and stbx would surely prefer you play cleanup with the kids, while she flanks you in very capable areas.

Again, I encourage you to focus on the areas where stbx is actually waging her major battles, not the side skirmishes which draw good forces away from the necessary areas of focus.  DD can work on that area and she is capable of toolbox behaviors.  They can be taught to her without using PD language.  Then you can focus on exposing stbx's wrongful manipulation through the use of publicly funded employees, school systems and the court. 

SoT

[escapingman]

SoT, it's not distracting me but give me more hope she will drop her mask soon. This coming month will be huge in all aspects. I am hopefully being able to talk to a charity tomorrow, the lawyers if needed. Not decided yet if I want to use the same legal team as before. It's though.

[square]

I would love for you to find a solicitor who is extremely smart, totally gets it, and is willing to take this by the horns.

[hhaw]

Not sure if this is overstepping board regulations, but now might be the time to consider making an appointment with a kick arse attorney practicing outside family law.

Would suggest corporate and/or criminal attorneys who are stellar litigators without fear.

These guys can look at your problem, possible cases and current case with fresh eyes and suggestions outside the box family law practitioners are confined by, ime.

If you know people who can refer you personally....thats best.  if the attorney is intrigued AND likes you, it's better.  I used to work at a law office and have friends who used to practice or worked with attorneys, so there was that, on top of my case was interesting and I received free "opinions." 

The more kick ars the better and by kick ars I mean
1.  Wins a lot of cases and
2.  Is first and foremost a litigator with one or more employees who support the mission to dominate in courtrooms.....with reputations of dominating courtrooms.

I hired a corporate litigator who was dropped into cases like a commando when things were going sideways.  Expensive, but he believed in my case, cared about my children and ended representing me in a trust case AFTER giving me hours of free advice in family court and fraud cases.......it was refreshing to have an attorney admit he wasn't clear on the laws or possible responses, do his homework then come back with facts AND possible actions based on his belief system and not based on "status quo" plodding through the mindless filings and responses attorneys in the family court system file on auto pilot without considering the special circumstances of dealing with PDs and children at risk, ime.

That attorney also gave me names of possible allies AND removed fear around laws, explaining what the ones we were actually dealing with meant vs all the fabricated b.s. attorney interpretations of those laws I was reading from opposing counsel which was intimidating to my counsel.

I learned to dissect legal language, address/counter every word/accusation  with specific evidence and stop my attorneys from screw ups that ended with me back in court litigating the same case again bc we won on the wrong issue and the verdict was reversed based on a technicality, which happens when litigating with PD individuals who push to keep us tied up in court till we're broke, insane or both.

Winning isn't really winning if your attorney is dialing it in, like your case is any other case, assuming deals are deals and Judgments will stand.  IME PDs tend to hire sneaks who do terrible things our attorneys don't believe will happen UNTIL we're bleeding on the ground, spitting teeth (fig.) 

You're inside the machine, EM.  You lack perspective. You need perspective, referrals and someone to tell you how to win every case and avoid time consuming nonsense other attorneys are working towards, ime.

Or not,

[escapingman]

hhaw, I totally get that. My solicitor and Barrister where really nice people, but that was the problem, they were nice. They didn't challenge the judge when she needed to be challenged, and there was no real space for me to intervene as it was already to late. I have joined a charity here in the UK that has monthly meetings locally, these meetings says will include barristers that will give advice, next one is in the beginning of February and that might be a very good one to get some insight and recommendations. I am going to talk to people before this, but I am not going to open up the case again until I have the right team and I know we will win. Hoestly, I still have no idea how I didn't win hands down with the evidence I had last time.

DD was in a very bad mood this morning, she did not want to go to school. She tried to get me to call in sick for her as she suspected the teacher wanted to see her today and try to get her to see her mum. If this continue I am not sure what to do, shall I keep her off school?

[SonofThunder]

EM, I'm in no position to advise on matters with children, but regarding my opinion to your question:

Going to school is a normal function for DD, and a normal function for your family; meaning you and your stbx decided that the school system in which your kids attend, is a chosen education system at this time for the EM family. 

Imo, keeping DD from a normal and expected function may have some negative effect on you as a parent in this case.  Also, i know you are fighting on the front lines and that distracting skirmishes are occurring on your flanks, but:

1. DD needs to practice/learn the proper tools in dealing with difficult people, even people who may be used as flying monkeys.  Teachers, coaches, employers, parents etc..  DD can just utilize her MC/GR and boundaries.  Just because the teacher may inquire, does not mean DD has to respond in any engaging manner.  The school is (im assuming) a teaching arm paid for by taxes of the citizens.  Therefore, DD is there to learn, not to have her home life and family life guided by the flying monkeys of the teacher, the SW and ultimately your stbx at the command.  Imo, DD should go to school with the toolbox.  The toolbox can be taught without PD terminology.

2. If you suspect illegal behaviors at school by the teacher through the SW, then DD going to school is more potential evidence.  If DD is aware of your concern of the activities that are outside the acceptable policies of the school system and/or district and/or law, then allow DD participate with you in collection and her own self-protection, as should learn to play a crucial part in helping herself.  She can MC/GR the teacher and stay focused on learning.  DD can document the time, place, people involved, and what was asked of her and keep a secret journal.  DD can take pictures of her journal for backup in case the journal is confiscated.  DD can even, after enough wrongdoing, help you in powerfully reporting the wrongdoing to the proper authorities.  Her potentially taking an active role in her own life is difficult, but good training.  In fact, it could be empowering for DD and she may feel like a secret agent working on her own behalf. 

Again, these are simply opinions of what I would do with my own daughter, but ultimately, this boils down to a good teaching moment for EM to his daughter, so when she is a legal, empowered adult, she is a strong and equipped one.  It also boils down to her and her dad, as a team, protecting themselves at this moment in time, as minors don't have full legal adult capabilities and dad suspects his stbx and her flying monkeys have crossed a legal line.

I wish DD strength in her mission of self protection, knowing that Dad is right there alongside.

SoT

[hhaw]

Echoing, SoT:

Giving DD voice....helping her feel empowered and capable of having input and power over outcomes involving her can have potential to outweigh shielding her from the adult debacle around her, ime.

All things being equal, protect her.

Things floating sideways......better to allow DD to advocate for herself for best possible outcome in her favor, of course.

Stbx wields GC as a weapon without consequences, so far.

You're being accused of using DD and alienating her from her Mum and sister while allowing contact and supporting it till DD was emotionally harmed to the point you were forced to stop contact.

All the while, GC has zero contact with you, sanctioned by SW, even as SW disrespects DD's wishes and safety requirements regarding contact with her mum.

And so....what I see is blowback from sendingvwishy washy messaging, as nons so often do.

If you say contact between DD and stbx is ok.....you basically admit there's no danger, risk or problems with stbx seeing DD.

GC never wavered in her messaging, imo, bc her mum is holding strict control over GC, her messaging and it's tied onto gaining your and DD's compliance.

Period.

The Odd might not be rocket scientists, but they beat us every time (in the beginning) with consistent messaging, ime.

Your sybx will always have

1.  Mutual protective order which cancelled out her domestic violence and appeared to be a mutual admission you're both offenders....from where I stand and as you can see, from other court officer's POV.  It was a devastating tactical error on your attorney's part.  This is you learning the hard way.

Allowing DD to see her milum sends message all is safe and we'll.....the SW got that message.

These are the ways we sabotage ourselves in PD divorce court, ime.

A series of small tactical error after error.  If your stbx was won the home with you, it's likely you'd be giving away more, compromising your case, in order to gain small measures of peace while stbx strengthened her case against you.

You're out now.

Best to get ON TOP of your messeging and don't send one more mixed message you aren't sending for tactical reasons, ime.

SW understands DD has self harmed and you've documented its tied directly to contact with stbx and flying monkey sister.

It might be time for a protective order for DD against stbx, MIL and perhaps GC IF that contact isn't controlled and hits like stbx is IN DD's ear.

Not sure how to handle that, b7t having a competent and respected T/expert advocating alongside DD would definitely have a positive impact, ime.

I'm sorry this is happening to you and your children, EM.

[escapingman]

hhaw, I can honestly tell you that it did not matter whatever I said, did, signed with the 2 judges and the social worker I have been involved with. In their eyes it cannot be possible that a poor mother has been abusing her own children, even with evidence could it has been as bas as reported, but now when the poor mother has been made aware it is not OK do behave like she did all is safe and fine as how could a mother abuse her own children? The first judge I had was praising STBX for leaving the house, had I not signed a mutual agreement the judge would never have forced her out and I would still be away from home. The second judge was so weird I never stood a chance from the start, that I still got custody of DD is a relief as she could have judged in whatever way she did, in the end she went against the SW's recommendation that further work needed to be done to find out what was going on, I am grateful for that as what she meant was how she could find enough evidence to recommend both DD and GC to live with STBX.

I am really deep in the trenches, but I have a clear picture now, and I know I am completely on my own. That's fine, but very lonely.

[escapingman]

Got a referral for DD to talk to a mental health practice specialising in young people and self harming, had an assessment and they revealed it's 15 months wait list. How can they possible have these long waiting lists for children when they need help immediately. Annoying to say the least and DD isn't impressed having spend an hour talking about her struggles for it to then be so long to being taken on.