Demands to forgive and forget

[Sidney37]

How do you deal with demands by relatives to forgive and forget along  with guilt that your attempts to "punish" your parents  are going to cause them to have strokes, heart attack's  or commit suicide?  Do I say nothing?  Do I block everyone I know?  Do I explain the difference between forgiveness and reconciliation? 

I'm not punishing.  I'm protecting myself and my kids from verbal and emotional abuse.  I'm not being brainwashed as is being told to anyone  will listen.  My parents can't and won't see that what they do and say is abusive.  They think the therapists I've seen are brainwashing me.  They think I'm lying to therapists to get attention. 

Right now I want to move to another country and change my name so no one else will blame me!  Is blocking all I can do to make it stop?  I'm hearing all of this in the midst of the holidays and it's just too much to take. 

[lotusblume]

Sidney,

Don't let them get to you. My mother played this card my whole life:

"You're going to give me a headache!

You're going to give me/your father (another) heart attack!

When you weren't speaking to us your father had to go to the hospital because he couldn't breathe! "

It's the most awful, manipulative form of guilt inducing fear used to tow you back into line, to control you.

The only thing those people saying those things hope to achieve is to force you into compliance by guilt that doesn't belong to you. For you to OBEY.

The only guilt that really belongs to any of us is the guilt of our consent, that we allow them to force us to agree with their reality at the cost of our own.

Stand up for yourself, internally. If you say something to them externally, the outcome won't change. You can't change their minds, don't let them change yours.

Call on your inner strength, truth, and love of yourself and your own life.

[moglow]

My nice response if required to give one: thank you for your concern, I'll keep that in mind. (Repeat as necessary, stiff smile in place)

My more realistic response: I appreciate your concern but I dont care to discuss it other than with them. I'm sure you understand.

[MamaDryad]

I will say that blocking is the best thing I ever did for myself in this context.

I may be heartless, but in my case, that line of reasoning often backfired on the flying monkeys, because over the top suicide threats from my mother (going back to my early childhood) were one of the first things I was able to recognize as Not Normal and, eventually, as emotional abuse.

I'm much more affected by picturing her living out her life alone and miserable. But even then, she is the one who has driven away everyone who cares about her. She used to blame me for her loneliness too, but as an adult, I can see that for what it is.

I'm sorry you're struggling right now. If this is all that the people who are doing this bring to your life, I hope you can eventually block them.

[Call Me Cordelia]

I'm so sorry you're hearing those shameful messages. It was like that for me too, and every now and again another "forgive and forget" from some ignorant person pops up. It stinks.

I agree with LotusBlume that people who lay on the guilt do not have your interests at heart, even if they are convinced they know what is the "right" thing. Their goal is to get you back into compliance with the exact system that hurt you so deeply in the first place. That's a hard truth to swallow, especially when you did believe them to be people who loved you and had your back.

You don't owe any such people any explanation whatsoever. The guilt they are plying is not yours, because it is not coming from a place of truth. You know and we know you are not punishing, so those accusations can be safely dismissed. You cannot cause someone to commit suicide by acting to protect your children. That is all nonsense and awful awful emotional blackmail! (They're obviously concerned about your parents' physical and mental health but what about yours?!?)

Blocking is a perfectly legitimate response here imho. I utilize it myself. I do tend to give flying monkeys one chance, because it is really a hard thing to understand. I've said something like, "This was a very difficult decision to make, but it was for good reasons I don't care to discuss with you. I understand you mean well but really it's not your concern." And go from there.

[Psuedonym]

Hey Sidney37,

If they're anything like my M, and I seem to remember that they are from previous posts, your relatives are probably sick and tired of the endless whining and moaning and telling of how they were wronged saga over and over again. 'You need to forgive and forget' is most likely a euphemism for 'please God make it stop, I can't listen to it anymore'. Well as a wise man once said: tough shit. They're grownups and they can deal with it. I'm sure many people have already figured out that there's something wrong with your parents, and the ones who haven't are either slow to catch on or have something going on themselves.

As the other posters said, you don't need these people in your life. They are either not bright or toxic, and you don't need any more of either.

[StayWithMe]

A useful response would be to ask whether that person has forgiven you. Forgive you for what will be the question.

Your response will be:  Have they forgiven me for whatever I did that caused them to treat me the way they did.

I bet you they will never ask you again.

[TwentyTwenty]

Sorry to hear you are going through this.

"You certainly come across very God-like, being able to peer into my heart and even know my deep inner thoughts such as whom I've forgiven and whom I have not! How wonderful to have such divine insight! But I believe that you are mistaken, you actually mean 'you should  RECONCILE the relationship'; which is totally apart and separate from forgiveness... Reconciliation MAY come after forgiveness; but not always.. And that is something you are most assuredly not qualified to ask of me, since you have nothing but lies to base your assumptions on. Now, please tend to things which you have first-hand knowledge, and don't make such idiotic requests of me again."

BTW - You're blocked. Have a nice life.

[Nominuke]

My FOO accused me of punishing them with NC, whilst simultaneously maintaining that they hadn't done anything wrong and were the best family a person could wish for. I pointed out that I was protecting and that for them to consider it punishment surely there was some reason for my actions. This was met with short silence, before a resumption of the gaslighting.

This taught me that there was no point in reasoning with them, they only wanted a return to the status quo.

I was left with a choice of that or NC. The choice for me was easy as I had a FOC to protect.

The downside is that NC with the PD also meant NC with the rest of the FOO. But to be honest the well was so poisoned with them after years of abuse and smears that it wasn't really a huge deal in the end.

[p123]

OP - its hard because relatives dont see the whole picture. They get drawn into the abusers lies to and ability to act like a victim.
You're spon on though. You're not punishing anyone you're protecting yourself and you're family. But no-one sees that.
In my experience, eventually, when the FMs have more dealings with my Dad THEY WORK IT OUT. All of a sudden it all changes when the tables are turned on them!

I've seen it with my Dads sister, his cousin. Starts out I'm the worst son in the world, then they realise. My brother never has though - I suppose some people...

Yeh just block them for now. You dont need the negativity. Look after yourself...

[theonetoblame]

"forgive and forget" is such an inappropriate term to begin with. Sure, we can forgive, and doing so is for us. Forgiveness allows us to release the power a perpetrator has over us by letting go of our emotional response to what has happened. Forgetting is impossible though, we'll always remember the harm, the scars will always be there as a reminder to us. To forget would be a type of dissociative denial and not a healthy outcome.

IMHO, a victim "forgiving and FORGETTING" is something that serves the perpetrator, not the victim. When a victim "forgets" what happened the perpetrator can go back to their internal state of denying that it ever happened. If the victim agrees to "forgive and forget" it also means they abdicate their right in the relationship to ever bring up the topic again and if they do the victim is then painted as the problem.

I had forgiven my parents, but not forgotten. Over time, I needed to discuss with them what happened as it was still causing me harm and many of their behavior patterns were continuing with me and with others. I walked into a huge wall of denial, they had assumed I had both forgiven and forgotten and then accused me of being the perpetrator (DARVO'd the crap out of me). This was the final straw for me and the point when I went permanently NC.

[StayWithMe]

IMHO, a victim "forgiving and FORGETTING" is something that serves the perpetrator, not the victim. When a victim "forgets" what happened the perpetrator can go back to their internal state of denying that it ever happened. If the victim agrees to "forgive and forget" it also means they abdicate their right in the relationship to ever bring up the topic again and if they do the victim is then painted as the problem.

QFT

Could someone explain to me why forgiving is so important if, when doing so, it does not change the day to day nature of the relationship?

[Kiki81]

My response would be: Everyone wants something, and I'd shrug.

[TwentyTwenty]

StayWithMe; forgiveness in my situation is a definitive action for myself - not the adversaries. Rather than be bound to feelings of resentment, being taken advantage of, abused, etc.. I chose to forgive my FOO and make a new, happy purpose-filled future focusing on the important elements of my current family and child rather than let something out of my past define me.

For me personally, it was a clean, defined acceptance to not hold on to an ill-willed cloud of harm that was directed toward me - for my own well being, not theirs.

Reconciliation, however is impossible with my FOO. Reconciliation does not = forgiveness. Reconciliation deals with the day to day relationship, not forgiveness, IMO.

[GentleSoul]

Sorry to read what is going on.  I had a similar experience with my uPD mum.  I allowed myself to get hooked back in, within a very short time, she got nasty again.  So I withdrew and went NC for several years until she passed when I spent a very small amount of time with her.

They DO NOT change!  It is within them, nothing to do with us or the people around them.

[StayWithMe]

StayWithMe; forgiveness in my situation is a definitive action for myself - not the adversaries. Rather than be bound to feelings of resentment, being taken advantage of, abused, etc.. I chose to forgive my FOO and make a new, happy purpose-filled future focusing on the important elements of my current family and child rather than let something out of my past define me.

For me personally, it was a clean, defined acceptance to not hold on to an ill-willed cloud of harm that was directed toward me - for my own well being, not theirs.

Reconciliation, however is impossible with my FOO. Reconciliation does not = forgiveness. Reconciliation deals with the day to day relationship, not forgiveness, IMO.

Thanks for that.

Did you tell them that you forgave them.  If so, how did they react?

[theonetoblame]

StayWithMe; forgiveness in my situation is a definitive action for myself - not the adversaries. Rather than be bound to feelings of resentment, being taken advantage of, abused, etc.. I chose to forgive my FOO and make a new, happy purpose-filled future focusing on the important elements of my current family and child rather than let something out of my past define me.

For me personally, it was a clean, defined acceptance to not hold on to an ill-willed cloud of harm that was directed toward me - for my own well being, not theirs.

Reconciliation, however is impossible with my FOO. Reconciliation does not = forgiveness. Reconciliation deals with the day to day relationship, not forgiveness, IMO.

Thanks for that.

Did you tell them that you forgave them.  If so, how did they react?

My experience of forgiveness allowed me to stop replaying the events and to release my anger about them. Forgiveness also allowed me to let go of the situations and to stop a pattern of imagined confrontations/justice seeking in response to having been hurt. The combination went a long way to reducing the frequency of stress and "fight or flight" arousal which had become toxic for me. Letting go was good for me emotionally and physically.

[Sidney37]

Thanks everyone.  It's been an especially hard day - the first NC Christmas.  I'm an only, so my parents have spent every Christmas with me for my entire life.  Having others put this pressure on me to forgive and forget is hard.  It's really hard.  Thanks for the support here. 

[theonetoblame]

Thanks everyone.  It's been an especially hard day - the first NC Christmas.  I'm an only, so my parents have spent every Christmas with me for my entire life.  Having others put this pressure on me to forgive and forget is hard.  It's really hard.  Thanks for the support here.

I am also an only child. I have cousins who had a very toxic childhood with my mother's sister, they had each other. When it came time to confront her, they did it together. They were both shared witnesses to what had happened and through their shared strength their mother accepted responsibility for her actions. She actually told me they had confronted her and that her kids were abused growing up ... wow....

I was on my own when I tried to confront my parents. Without a shared witness, it was my word against theirs and they stonewalled me at every turn and piled on with the DARVO. To this day, I don't think many in the extended family actually believe my side of things. As time has moved on, it has mattered less and less. I was more concerned about their opinions that was really necessary.

It gets better Sydney. The first couple years were tricky and I still had lots of flying monkeys and wasn't fully NC that way. It was after the chatter and manipulation finally stopped completely that I started to really heal. Look for that horizon, it's a good place!

[TwentyTwenty]

StayWithMe; Yes, I stated that I forgive them at the very start of our separation.

They attempted to use it as leverage toncorner me into allowing things to go back to 'things as usual' and began gaslighting to avoid having to take responsibility. From there they began flat out lying, smear campaigns  and became criminally threatening and began stalking and harassing me. My lawyer and I issued cease & desist orders and called the police when they tried to enter our guarded, gated community against clear orders.

We are now no contact for 2 years, and things couldn't be better.