Not such a walk in the park

[HowDidIGetHere]

Tonight a nice walk in the park turned into "I want a divorce for my birthday".

We were on a nice walk in the park this evening when we walked by a few people we don't know going the other way. My wife said hello to them as she often does. They didn't say anything back, which also isn't uncommon.

The issue is my wife thinks this lack of acknowledgement is very rude. Like always. And she commented about how rude it is. Like always.

She then proceeded to complain to me about how rude it is and asked me "don't you think?" Now, I "know better". I know the "right" thing to do is say "yes dear" and continue walking. But we have a kid now. I don't want to model going on about how rude people are for not saying hello or any other similarly mild "slight"

(Side note: She's very sensitive to people being rude. Me, other family members, complete strangers. I'm the only one she lashes out at though. It kinda seems like this might be an NPD trait? I've been learning more and there may be some covert narcissism going on.)

So I say "I dunno, it's not a normal thing for everyone to say hello to every stranger you pass. They also may not have recognized you were talking to them."  She then tells me how unsupportive I am. I ask how I was being unsupportive; that I wasn't even disagreeing with her. I was merely commenting that it's not the norm for everyone. She then says she shouldn't be surprised. That I don't support her in anything. I don't respond.

She then starts walking faster than me. (She later disagrees and is adamant that I slowed down to be a dick.) I'm pushing the stroller. I could keep up, but she's in a pissy mood and mad at me for no good (I think?) reason, so I maintain my pace. She gets a ways ahead, turns around and says "I guess I'm walking by myself." And takes off for home even faster.

I have the keys to the house so she's waiting outside for me. I ask if she wants to take the baby or stroller inside (has to go to a small set of stairs). She takes the keys and tells me to do both. So I do.

We get inside and it's anothet refrain of how unsupportive I am with a chorus of I'm a dick and an asshole and I ruined a perfectly good walk. And oh yea "I know you took the day off for my birthday in a few days, but I don't want to be around you, so don't be here."

She's alternating to not speaking to me (about anything) and telling me how horrible I am. I said I don't understand what I did that's so horrible and she said f*** you. I said I understand that you're really frustrated, but that sort of response isn't a appropriate. She said "I know what I want for my birthday. A divorce."

She continued to ignore me for a while, but things calmed down the slightest bit. I apologized for not validating her feelings, because I didn't. She asked if that was all. And then proceeded to say the real problem is that I didn't engage with her at all during the walk. Now this simply isn't true. There were some lulls, yes but we talked. She said all I did was talk to the baby.

Now I'll be the first to admit that I'm not the most talkative. I'm quiet. I always have been. But I don't think she can justifiably blame me for ruining the walk. (And all the other walks we've gone on apparently?) She expects me to apologize for this. I haven't. I don't think I've done anything wrong.

In the past I would have to keep the peace. But as cliche as it sounds, I think I need to stand up for myself to be a good role model for baby. I know he doesn't understand now, but I don't want him always thinking he's in the wrong and has to apologize for things that he shouldn't have to apologize for.

She said that I've been horrible for a long time. And that she's told me this. And that I've put no effort into being better. I pointed out that I'm the one who suggested couples therapy. That I go to therapy and try to work on myself.

She reiterated his horrible I was and that she wanted a divorce. I said if I'm really that horrible I understand why you wouldn't wan to be with me.

I honestly don't know if I handled this well or not. I don't know if I'm in the wrong or not. I (thank god) meet with my therapist tomorrow. But I'd love to hear your thoughts about this. Are there things I could have done to handle this better? Am I in the wrong (fully or partially)?

[SonofThunder]

Hello HowDidIGetHere,

The behaviors you are experiencing from your wife align well with the traits of a PD and I experienced them for two decades prior to my coming out of that f.o.g. (fear, obligation, guilt) prior to the last decade of my marriage.  There is much already written on the forum boards to answer your questions.  Please understand you are in the classic double bind; respond the way you did and suffer the consequences or "yes dear" and live under the weight of knowing the truth and knowing that your child is learning by watching you and your wife.  Its a lose-lose and designed by the PD for that purpose. 

Pitch your tent at the toolbox tab above.  One tab to the left is the personality disorders tab and the top 100 traits.  Familiarize yourself with the top 100 traits and then start to absorb the toolbox.  The toolbox tools are excellent, but please understand they may only shorten the intensity and duration of the traits you experience from your wife; but they will not reverse your situation.  Also please understand that the better you are able to implement the toolbox, the more distant your relationship with your wife may become and it will be obvious to both her and you. That emotional distance will also have it's own consequences.  Imo the main purpose of the toolbox is self-protection, but in my experiences, self-protection does not heal relationships with PD's. 

Regarding your specific 'walk in the park' encounter, the toolbox tools to implement would have been medium chill (grey-rock) and noJADE.  Utilizing those two tools would probably not change the ending result of her victimizing onto you, but it may have caused the drama to be shorter along the walk, although you may have still suffered through the silent treatment (her quiet and walking ahead of you). 

I was married for 30 years to a woman who would do the exact same thing you experienced and so I feel for you.  You are not alone. 

SoT

[notrightinthehead]

You wrote:   .....She then proceeded to complain to me about how rude it is and asked me "don't you think?" Now, I "know better". I know the "right" thing to do is say "yes dear" and continue walking. But we have a kid now. I don't want to model going on about how rude people are for not saying hello or any other similarly mild "slight" ...

You could have validated her feelings by confirming "you think they were rude and you didn't like the way they walked past." That way you acknowledge her feelings without agreeing with her. She might rant on from there and you can continue to validate her feelings or change the subject "I so enjoy a walk in this mild spring weather". A "yes dear" in my mind or a "....hm, ok" is also not agreeing, it's more what a mother would say to her child while thinking 'let her talk nonsense'.

What you did would work with a normal person who is open to the viewpoints of others and willing to question her own opinions. With a PD it doesn't work like that.

In my experience You can't argue with a PD and you cannot win a fight, they are always willing to escalate further.

I second what SoT wrote, the Toolbox applied religiously will calm your home life significantly but it will lead to even more distance between you.

Also, you need a plan for the baby.

So glad to read you are in therapy.

[square]

Yeah, I can certainly relate to that crazy story. For my husband, when he feels I have betrayed him by not exactly matching his feelings, it's "you don't agree?" Said quite darkly.

When I hear that, I know the day is ruined because I'm just not willing to do the dance to appease him. I'm allowed to have my own thoughts and opinions. Sometimes I actually somewhat agree with him but not as strongly or have some caveat.

As SoT said, it's a double bind. You either lose yourself and capitulate. Or you pay. Their response is explicitly emotional blackmail to make the cost of being yourself high.

There's no magic solution. Sometimes you can get away with a dodge like "you certainly felt they were rude." Sometimes they will catch that you haven't agreed and nail you to the wall for it. Logic won't help a bit - pointing out that they in fact are being rude to YOU, that they have changed pace, that they are asking something quite unfair of you, none of it. If they saw that logic, they wouldn't behave that way. But they feel perfectly justified so they continue.

Personally, I deal with it with medium chill. I go on the walk with no expectation it'll be nice. When stuff blows up, it doesn't really surprise me. I'm no robot so of course it's still disappointing but instead of going from "this is a nice walk" to "oh no the evening is ruined" it's just "we'll see how this goes" to "yeah I figured as much" emotionally inside.

Outside it's kind of a "yes dear" calm even if I don't actually validate him. He can poke and prod but he can't really change me.

I don't blame you a bit for not wanting to fold to the emotional blackmail and fall all over yourself to apologize for not being a complete minion. You can't change her attempts. You can care a lot less. It doesn't heal the marriage any, but you are not the one breaking it with absurd demands. Caring less does help you reduce the high emotional price.

[MaxedOut]

That whole experience sounds like exactly the type of thing my SO does. The sort of textbook validation that notright mentioned will usually get pounced on as quickly as any gentle mentioning of maybe they were not trying to be rude. The spiral into the Listing of Disloyalties because I "never stand up for her" "always throw her under the bus" and "put everyone ahead of her." Since she also fits facts to feelings, most likely the couple's transgressions and terribleness will grow in time also.

I am also where I struggle with validating/not validating the invalid. A slight shift often helps like "I can see why you think that was rude" or attention brush off "oh, I didn't notice. If they saw and heard that would be kind rude." Or humor "Maybe they're some of them big city folk where you learn not to make eye contact or say hi back. We might be too small city for their time."

Or finding values alignment points "Yeah, I have always been the type to say hi or nod when someone says hello. I think it's friendly and polite to do that." Or "Yeah, it's nice to say hi back or at least a nod or wave." Often I don't necessarily agree with the assumption of intent or black and white thinking but can find space here (and the intent my spouse is sure about is usually a possibility-I am no more of a mind reader than her). If that alternate view framing works it may open us space for a little more expansive reasoning ("I always try to say hi though I have definitely had times when I am so lost in my thoughts I don't realize someone said hi until after we passed each other and then it would just be weird." Or "yeah, this town seems about halfsies on whether people say hi back. It seems super regional. When I was in —- everyone said hi, to the point that it was a little annoying. And when I was in ———- people seemed unnerved when you said hi to them."

[square]

I'm writing some of those down, thanks.

In general, I've noticed that there are possibilities when not answering the question or statement directly. A SO asks you to validate them about their perception of an experience, and instead you make an observation on how common or not common it is, or what your personal guidelines for your own behavior are, and you have a decent chance of not needing to answer the original question.

I do not find this to be intuitive - I feel compelled to answer the question fully as I had understood it - but over the past few years have improved in the art of answering the question that I prefer to answer.

Had not thought of these, though, so have added them to the database, thanks.

[Lookin 2 B Free]

These from Square "Their response is explicitly emotional blackmail to make the cost of being yourself high" (brilliant) and "I'm allowed to have my own thoughts and opinions."

Of all the unbearable behaviors typical of PD's, I think this is the one I find most infuriating.  To be threatened, punished, banished, abused for daring to have a thought or opinion of your own; daring to be a separate person instead of a walking rubber stamp, a mini-me of them.  I got pretty good at finessing it as an adult and completely capitulated as a child.  If I had to live with it these days I think my head would explode.

I know that's not much help to you, HDIGH.  And I understand how high the stakes get when a child is involved and you want to give them the best possible environment and role modeling.  I'm really glad you are Out of the FOG enough to see the need to be there for your child.  They're little sponges.

Please let us know how you're doing.  Being a part of this community and also with a good T are wonderful tools.

[HowDidIGetHere]

Hey everyone! Thanks for insights, suggestions, and well wishes!

Things are... ok at the moment.

Wife's birthday came and went and for the most part was nice. Did everything I planned on. I had a period of abject terror when a bit before dinner she asked me "hey, do you want to go for a walk?"...

I internally thought hellllll no. After last time I don't want to do anything that high risk (lol) on her birthday. We went for the walk and it was nice.

There was almost a meltdown when the dinner I cooked was a bit subpar, but crisis was averted.

She enjoyed her gift and the card I wrote her. The special vegan cake (wife is off dairy bc baby is sensitive) was the best cake we've ever had, so she was happy. She thanked me for making it a nice birthday.

There's been some crap since then (which I'm sure I'll post about), but I'm in an ok headspace now