“College” words

[Sidney37]

I'm not sure if this should be in the behaviors section or here.  I guess I'm just venting and reminding myself why I'm going NC and blocking phone members today.

A behavior that my DH recently noted that my uPDm will use is to say something very mean and then if I call her on it, she will say it's because she didn't go to college. 

If I tell her  that something she said was hurtful, upset me, etc. she won't apologize.  Instead she cries that I can't hold her responsible for her actual words because I went to college and she didn't.  I know how to pick the proper words to use and she doesn't.  She can't help it if her mother refused to let her go to college.  I should be grateful that I got to go instead of picking on her because she didn't.  It's not her fault she says what she does.  It's because she didn't go to college.  I know how to pick words better and I'm so mean to her for criticizing her because she didn't.  She writes off everything she says that you call her on by saying it's not her fault because she didn't go to college.

Do other PDs do this?  How do you even respond?

[all4peace]

Argh, this is an icky one.

When DH and I once had a 4-way conversation between us and his parents over decades of really poor behavior, one thing enFIL said it that the problem was that I was so much more intelligent than MIL. Wrong on more than 1 level and I probably looked like: 

I think it's just one way of being in denial. "It's not that I'm mean, it's just that you know all the words!"
Sometimes people say "I was just kidding!"
Or "You misunderstood me!"

The only thing I can think of would be to pause next time, and ask her to specifically clarify what she means when she starts with something outrageous. Make sure she genuinely has a chance to clearly state what she means. It's kind to her and it could help with the dynamics of this situation.

In uNBPDmil's life, everything was somehow about her victim status, her finances, lack of privileges, education level, everything. "Must be nice...." was the beginning of many a sentence directed at me. To me, it seems to be just one more way to be an unfaired-upon victim rather than taking responsibility for one's own life, words, actions.

If you want to throw out some actual examples, I'd be happy to brainstorm with you on possible responses

[Cat of the Canals]

Wow. It's almost impressive the length they will go to play the victim instead of taking responsibility for their words and actions.

Not only is this basically a DARVO move (because she ends up accusing YOU of being the mean one), I think this also qualifies as a form of "moving the goalposts." You are trying to discuss Topic A (your hurt feelings) but she turns it into a discussion about Topic B (she didn't go to college, boo hoo).

I think the way to counteract any "goalpost moving" is to calmly redirect back to Topic A. (Remaining calm is key, because they almost always go somewhere emotional when they try to change the subject.)

"I'm sorry you have regrets about not going to college, but right now we're talking about how it hurt my feelings when you said X."

It doesn't always work. Especially with PDs. They are experts at avoiding the topic at hand if it's something they don't want to talk about.

[illogical]

I agree with all4peace and Cat of the Canals-- this is your mother playing the victim.  "Oh, poor pitiful me, I didn't have the advantages I gave you.  I didn't go to college and therefore can't frame an intelligent response.  Oh my!"  Total bullshit.

IMHO, I wouldn't even try to give a logical response to that.  It won't matter what you say, she will whine, whine, whine and then some.  All roads will lead to circular conversations, e.g.,

You:  "What exactly are you saying here, that I'm more intelligent that you?"
Her:  "I gave up everything so you could go to college.  You have had so many more advantages than me."
You:  "Okay, but you still can think for yourself."
Her:  "You just always find a way to put me down."
You:  "I'm not putting you down.  I'm just saying you can think for yourself."
Her:  "That superior attitude of yours always comes through.  You think you know it all."

And ON and ON and ON, ad infinitum.  Don't take the bait.  Don't try to JADE.  The only way to get away from her abusive self is to drop the rope and don't engage with her--

Her:  "I didn't have the advantages you had of going to college."
You:  "No, you didn't.  [switch subject]  It looks like today is going to be a nice day."
Her:  "You always find a way to put me down."
You:  "I'm sorry you are in a bad mood.  I'll talk to you later when you're feeling better.  Bye now!"  [you hang up the phone]

Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.  No JADEing.  No taking the bait that she wants you to take, i.e., that she is the POOR PITIFUL mother who GAVE ALL so you could have everything, etc.

Now that you've blocked her on phone, texts and emails, hopefully you won't find yourself in a situation where you have to defend or explain why you have a life.   

[Call Me Cordelia]

Soon before things blew up and I was losing patience with my Nparents I would simply laugh at stuff like that. That is a new one. But so much of what they said was just completely bonkers. They were absolutely serious. But I laughed. Did the job.

[WomanInterrupted]

Good grief!   

You mean you had to go to college to learn the words please, thank you, and I'm sorry?   

They taught you to be polite in college?  Not to be overly-critical of others?  Not to make demands on other people's time, then act like you're doing them a favor?  They taught you how to give a sincere apology?   

I thought most of us learned that stuff in kindergarten or grade school, or picked it up from others, while attempting to mimic normal behavior we weren't taught.   

I agree - it's a DARVO attack, in one sentence. 

And thankfully, you won't have to hear any more of it, now that her number is blocked. 

She can Extinction Burst her little heart out, your DH can read this stuff and say, "Holy crap!  Does she have NO shame!?" - and save it all, in case you need to contact a lawyer about a Cease and Desist letter.

It won't be legally binding, but it's on a lawyer's letterhead, and sure as hell SOUNDS official, so she may not know it's merely a suggestion - but one that paves the way to a restraining order, if needed.

Oh crap - sorry.  Some of those were college words.   

[daughterofbpd]

My M never used that line but I agree it's DARVO. Mine would say I was too sensitive and wanted to think the worst of her. I once told her "that's not very nice" (in a calm voice) when she said something rude and she went on a tirade about how I am mean and always picking on her.  PDs don't like being called out or having to reflect on their behavior so they flip the conversation to what you've done wrong. It looks like you've gotten some great advice for dealing with this. I agree with allforpeace - try asking her to clarify. You can even summarize her words "Are you saying.....?" That gives her the opportunity to either confirm or retract her words.

[athene1399]

I'm going to be snarky here, but "It's never too late to go to college mom" is a good reply.  I'm sure she'd have something to say about that, too. Someone had a similar thread somewhere about "your abuse wasn't as bad as mine". This feels a lot like that and defiantly DARVO. I am sorry this happens.

Probably the only solution is to stop calling her out on the bad behavior. She will never admit to it and will always have an excuse, leading you to be more frustrated. It's hard to respond without JADE, so i think not responding (or just not calling her out on it) would be best IMO.

College has nothing to do with bad or good behavior. I'm pretty sure there's no "not being a jerk 101". She's just trying to make you feel guilty for something she's ashamed of never doing herself. That whole "must be nice to have done this..." attitude. I hate that. 

[Sidney37]

Thanks all.  I think this was more of a vent and has this happened to you post.  I've blocked her cell from my phones this week, so there will be less of her drama going forward. 

DH and I talked later last night about this college DARVO.  We realized that the college explanation never happened by phone.  He was surprised it didn't happen when he tried to talk to her over the weekend by phone until we realized this.  She tried hard to gaslight him and lie to him about me.  He didn't take her bait.  In person, she'd go straight to the college defense.  It seems to only happen at my house.  If you don't take the bait on the college explanation she cries that she wants to go home and that she's never going  to visit again. 

It's amazing the tactics they use that when they tell them to others almost sound totally reasonable and loving. 

[AnneH]

uHPDsis actually went further in college than I did; she has a PhD and a PhD profession and was NEVER satisfied with my (obligatory) show of admiration at how HARD she had worked to get where she was (NC 7.5 years). My degrees are in foreign languages and yes, I have traveled more than she has and obviously have more foreign language skills as her degree is in another area. The poor thing had a TERRIBLE fear of flying (that is, flying over to see me; not of work-related flights that are just as long). Anyway, whenever I made the most minor everyday choice she would always make a huge deal over it and chalk it up to my having lived abroad. When enbro would ask whether I wanted milk or water for dinner and I chose water, uHPD sis would explode with "Oh no! Of COURSE AnneH won't be drinking milk with dinner! They don't DO THAT in Europe!" If I set the table in a way that was not exactly the same as uNM's, she would say "I guess that must be the EUROPEAN way." When I accidentally fell asleep during a romantic comedy and BIL first asked if I had enjoyed it (I said yes) and then announced that I had actually been sleeping, she said "I guess it was boring because it wasn't EUROPEAN." etc etc etc. So yes, I think it is common for PDs to use whatever experience or skills we have against us to play the victim. I would just ignore her.

[athene1399]

It's like they weaponize their insecurities to use against us. "I can't help it, I didn't go to college like you!" "Oh, it's not good enough because it's not European!"  It's like they try to make us feel like crap for our accomplishments.

[SmartyCat]

In my family, the PDs find it unacceptable if they aren't "winning" the conversation. They eat up articles on "how to talk to" people from other religions (ie, "win" the conversation either through dazzling logic or quickly shutting the thing down). If someone makes a simple request (on the order of "please tell me when and where we're meeting for the funeral"), they spin it into how college has robbed that person of common sense and they should just KNOW. And yeah - if they don't feel they're winning a conversation, it must be because they don't know all the fancy words to make something completely offensive be accepted and even admired as their due.

[illogical]

...if they don't feel they're winning a conversation, it must be because they don't know all the fancy words to make something completely offensive be accepted and even admired as their due.

This made me lol!  So very true!!!!