Still a little unclear on gas lighting and stone walling?

[Amy-Rose]

Hi,
I'm just wondering if anyone can clear this up. I think I understand what the terms mean I just have trouble applying them to situations.

Is this stonewalling?
I caught a friend out in a lie which she told to cover up unflattering behaviour and that definitely blew a hole in her 'false self'
Her only reply was: "I'm sorry you feel that way."
I said: "I'm sorry your behaviour makes me feel that way."
And she just didn't respond. So the conversation ended. She would often say nothing if you asked a question or said something she didn't like. Is that stone walling or just not replying?
Was that non response stone walling? Sometimes she'd often be evasive and not give a straight answer is that stonewalling as well?
Wanting to know for future reference.

Gaslighting
Again unsure if this was gaslighting or not.
A neighbour fostered two dogs from Ukraine and was requested the animals were not left alone too long. One was deaf and old and had trouble getting up off the floor.
The neighbour then went away for the day leaving the dogs alone for 17 hours. It's not uncommon for her to leave them 10-12 hours a few times a week. I felt this was wrong and so decided to have a gentle word. She immediately turned round and told me that dogs hadn't been left alone 17 hours, she'd just been in bed ill. (Someone else had actually sent me the train tickets she purchased using their computer and email proving she'd caught a 6am bus and caught the 6pm bus back, where shed gone was four hours away so she arrived back home at 10:30 that night.) I just told her I knew she was lying. Got the sorry you feel that way, then she said "funny how you didn't see me out walking them in the afternoon, proving I was home."
I knew she'd gone not just from our mutual friends proof but because I saw her go and come back.
Was that gas lighting? Since she was trying to plant uncertainty in my mind and make me question the truth? Again, wanted to know for future reference if I do have a good understanding of these terms.

P.S Both the dogs are fine. I had a quiet word with the rescue she was fostering from as I'm friends with the owner. Both dogs had an adoption date coming up in a week and would no longer be with her. The lady also assured me they had no idea the dogs were being left on occasions for 10 or more hours and that they wouldn't allow her foster again. 6 months later shes still has no pets. Just a heads up for those who might want to know what he outcome there was or why I didn't do anything.

Thank you for your time and help with grasping these terms.

[Big Bear]

Amy Rose,

Yes, I would agree that those are examples of stonewalling and gaslighting.

Both often have the effect of eroding trust in a relationship.  I believe that trust is the foundation for all relationships, so that these two behaviors can have serious consequences.

One key negative feature of stonewalling or the silent treatment is that the length of the silence is not defined.  There is an important distinction between stonewalling and a healthy time-out.  At times we can feel overwhelmed when confronted, and a healthier response would be to take a time-out.  For example, "I'm not ready to talk about that right now, could we meet in an hour to discuss this?"  There is nothing wrong with taking a defined break from a stressful situation as long as we're committed to coming back to resolve the issue.

In contrast, the stonewalling you describe lacks any commitment to come back after a defined time to resolve the issue.  In fact, the other person seems to be simply deflecting and ignoring your concerns.  I would say that all of the examples you provided would count as stonewalling.  In none of your examples was there a healthy, respectful commitment to return to the conversation after a defined period of time.  I hope that the distinction between a healthy, defined time-out and an unhealthy stonewall response could help clarify this issue. 

In the gas-lighting example stick to your observations and facts, these could help you stay grounded.  Also, if I was in that situation, I would be reluctant to believe anything that person said in the future!  (By the way, I'm glad the dogs found a new home.)   

Here are a couple links from the top 100 traits on this website (under the personality disorders tab):

https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/gaslighting

https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/the-silent-treatment

The top-100 traits omits "stonewalling" but does include a description of the silent treatment which is basically the same thing.

Hope that helps,
Big Bear

[Amy-Rose]

That's Big Bear for helping me clarify this for myself. Like you say a healthy "time out" is Ok if the situation still gets resolved.

Thanks for the links as well. It's just sometimes in life things aren't as black and white as when they are explained.

[Amy-Rose]

Funny about you saying about staying grounded in your truth (because they are so convincing) but a mutual friend sent me the train tickets she'd purchased (using our mutual friends PC) and I actually took pictures of them from the email on my phone so I could look at them while speaking to her to help me KNOW this did happen. I nearly began questioning myself, though.

Leaving any dog alone 17 hours is plain wrong. At 56 she should know that. But she made it worse with how she handled being caught out.

The dogs were homed together! In Cornwall, here in the Uk and live by the beach. Thanks for caring.

[moglow]

I don't see where the neighbor is trying to make you believe anything [gaslighting]. It may be that they simply felt they don't owe you an explanation and don't care to discuss it with you. For all any of us knows they may have had someone check in, let the dogs out etc. It doesn't matter and doesn't bear further investigation/discussion. However well meaning and nicely put, your "gentle words" may be resented and seen as intrusive. That you sought out and have obtained a copy of neighbor's train ticket [!] bears that out - that IS intrusive. I would also disagree with neighbor's leaving the dogs alone for so long, but a. IF I became aware of it I'd report it and move on, and b. stay out of it from that point. It may be best to just leave the neighbor be, to live their life as they choose.

[Amy-Rose]

@moglow - thank you for your input.
But she could have just said 'none of your business' instead of spinning a lie. Something she did quite often.  I didn't deliberately obtain the train tickets. A mutual friend told me she was lying. I asked how she knew and she sent them. It was more for me to see what she was like than anything else. I did report it to the rescue.
This wasn't really a question asking about whether anyone's behaviour was good or bad. Just if those were examples of that stone walling.gas lighting as it sounded like it to me from what I've read.

So far I've had one yes and one no, proving noticing these things are a little more complicated than some people might think. Some of it seems more down to personal opinion (?)  But again thank you very much for your time and honest opinion.

[moglow]

There's so very much gray area in personal interactions, and interpretations will definitely vary. She could have said many things, instead chose the path of least resistance rather than the overt bluntness of "that's none of your business." She sounds very defensive, she may indeed have other issues at the root of it that she doesn't care to discuss.

[Amy-Rose]

She seemed to want my friendship but she also seemed defensive on every thing - you couldn't ask any questions at all so it was very hard to get to know her. I just stopped asking her anything which made me feel impolite.
There was a lot more to it than that incident and I didn't bother with a lot of details as it was more the behaviour I was interested in and didn't want anyone to focus on the right/wrong of her/mine/our mutual friends actions.

I'm interested in studying Psychology and just wanted to be sure I'd got a good grasp of these terms as I think sometimes they get thrown around too fast and incorrectly.

Again thanks for your time

[SaddleBagger]

I don't believe either of these fit the definitions of the phrases.
Lying, maybe.
Disagreement about the facts, yes.

But even if they are lying it doesn't seem your position to point it out. There could be details you haven't shared that might change that but based on the info it seems like something one could note about them and then carry on with your life.

[Amy-Rose]

@SaddleBagger - thank you maybe I'm unclear then. Would you be able to give me examples then?

[SaddleBagger]

@SaddleBagger - thank you maybe I'm unclear then. Would you be able to give me examples then?

Sure. On your stonewalling example this appears more like she ended that conversation. You may have felt it was unwarranted, rude, inappropriate but it was one conversation.
Stonewalling is going to be longer term, and disruptive to your needs. For instance you have a partner who's being irresponsible with spending, you need to speak with them because there are expenses to be covered and whenever you bring it up you get silent treatmemt, subject changes or the blame flipped back on you, etc. You're therefore not able to come to a resolution about the money and there are negative consequences for your life.

Gaslighting
The PD is purposely trying to replace your reality with their own. The motivation is control. It's a targeted ongoing campaign with this specific purpose. Somebody simply lying to you is not the same thing.

[Amy-Rose]

@saddlebags

Thank you very much for your examples.
It cleared a lot up. But she does do the gaslighting. She doesn't just lie. She often tries to make you believe her lies but attacking the truth and making you doubt what you saw (especially when what you saw wasn't flattering to her).