Struggling with phone calls

[Rocketman]

This may sound silly but I'm struggling quite a bit with phone calls. I'm fairly low contact with my Nmother, maybe some of you are familiar with the obligatory regular phone call to the Nmother/father for the sake of supply and to be lectured at will. This was the first thing to change when I started counseling/healing in general, I simply did not want to provide that supply. It has been challenging.

I've tried to manage those calls from a standpoint of "what do I need and what do I have the capacity for?"  That has led me to simply not talk to her very often. We've never really had much in common and conversations weren't super pleasant. It was just to stay "out of trouble" as sad as that power over a grown ass adult is, and even the GC sibling refers to them as "maintenance calls".

Anyways, I visited right after New Years and didn't really talk for a few weeks after that then got a phone call as I was on my way to an appointment. I intended to call back that day but I ended up not having the time. No worries, I'll call when I get the chance, I thought. Shortly after, some non-family stuff happened and it's occupied a lot of my non working time for a couple weeks. I've had several bad days anxiety-wise and simply don't have the capacity and on one of the good days thought "I've got some momentum, I'm going to do something good for myself" and ended up not calling again either.

I really am trying to objectively focus on what I need, it's just difficult when those calls were never about connecting and listening to each other to begin with. Purely 1-way, and it's just hard to find that compatible with feeing like I deserve respect like any other human on this planet. I've felt a little bad at times and then realized I haven't wanted to watch the new season of Ozark. I've been a fan of the show since its release and have been waiting for this new season. But it's very grim and is definitively not what I've needed these past few weeks. So that levels me a little but I've just struggled with this still being relatively new, I'm still working to figure this particular out. Sorry for the rant, I'd love to hear some of your experiences.

[Tribe16]

Hi Rocketman,

I stopped calling my mom regularly last August. We'd gotten to the point of talking a couple times a month, and her icy cruelty weighed on me for several days after the phone call and I couldn't deal with it anymore.

I did call on Thanksgiving and New Years, but it was on speaker phone with my husband present. I knew she would behave better if she knew she didn't have me all to herself. I have sent several cards and a Christmas gift. Once in awhile I need to send a text response. I keep it very surface, triple-check myself for not putting anything in a letter or text that can be used against me later.

Do you have to call? Would it be easier to keep in touch in writing? Take care of yourself Rocketman.

[Cat of the Canals]

I've been in "limited phone call" mode for about a year now. I used to call several times a month out of duty and sometimes overt guilt trips from PDmom. (She loved sending her flying monkeys to tell me that I needed to call her.) The first few months are definitely the hardest, but it does get easier. I spent a lot of the first 2-3 months filled with doubt and questioned myself a lot. But over time, that centering of yourself and your needs starts to feel not only normal but necessary. Sometimes she calls three or four times before I have the mental space to return the call (I rarely answer her calls), and I no longer feel much guilt about that. So my advice would be to ride out the discomfort. It's worth it.

[Rocketman]

Hi Rocketman,

I stopped calling my mom regularly last August. We'd gotten to the point of talking a couple times a month, and her icy cruelty weighed on me for several days after the phone call and I couldn't deal with it anymore.

I did call on Thanksgiving and New Years, but it was on speaker phone with my husband present. I knew she would behave better if she knew she didn't have me all to herself. I have sent several cards and a Christmas gift. Once in awhile I need to send a text response. I keep it very surface, triple-check myself for not putting anything in a letter or text that can be used against me later.

Do you have to call? Would it be easier to keep in touch in writing? Take care of yourself Rocketman.

Thanks for your response. Turns out she ended up sending a message to my spouse telling them to say hi to me since it's been X weeks since she'd heard from me, untrue btw. But this was manipulative and not fair to my spouse. So I sent her a message about that. As expected I got criticism for how I act, so I don't think I'll be calling for the sake for taking my punishment. Text responses, to your point, seem to work better because I can focus on what's at hand and not leave an open door for whatever drama is floating around.

[Rocketman]

I've been in "limited phone call" mode for about a year now. I used to call several times a month out of duty and sometimes overt guilt trips from PDmom. (She loved sending her flying monkeys to tell me that I needed to call her.) The first few months are definitely the hardest, but it does get easier. I spent a lot of the first 2-3 months filled with doubt and questioned myself a lot. But over time, that centering of yourself and your needs starts to feel not only normal but necessary. Sometimes she calls three or four times before I have the mental space to return the call (I rarely answer her calls), and I no longer feel much guilt about that. So my advice would be to ride out the discomfort. It's worth it.

Hey it sounds like I'm talking to one of my siblings!  Minus the commitment to healing...I'm in a very similar place, just being aware of what capacity I have and what I feel comfortable with.  It's brought me peace and I've been maybe a little too protective of it.  Unfortunately last night showed that manipulating my wife is on the table for getting to me, which is unacceptable.  So I just told her that much and asked to address me directly.  Hopefully you haven't experienced something similar.

[moglow]

Rocketmen, my brother! This doesnt sound silly at all and you're not alone. Mine used the phone/phone calls as a weapon for years and Lord help us when someone taught her how to text several years back. It wasn't enough that she'd drip her bile via voicemail but then she did the same with texts. When we actually spoke on the phone, rarely was there any interest in me whatsoever - she went on and on about her personal woes, asking about my brothers and their families [um, you could ask them!], gossiping about people I may or may not have known. No recognition or appreciation that I also had things going on or just wanted to have a pleasant conversation.

When I started standing up for myself and/or calling her on the bile and changing the subject, everything shifted. She became downright nasty on a much more regular basis. Let a conversation get uncomfortable or me simply voice a different viewpoint and she'd ramp up a rage, using that as an excuse to hang up on me. Then she'd text and call back and leave more voicemail messages. And text. Then somehow she wasn't getting my text responses anymore but she continued to text. So I'd call and get her voicemail and she'd only call back when she knew I was at work. So yeah. It was a weapon for her.

Thing is, none of those conversations were remotely enjoyable or even informative. They were dump-fests and checking boxes until she got bored with i. She just wanted a response, ANY response so she could take off running with the next episode. She "needed to vent!" as I was told several times. The more time she spent alone, the worse it got. She'd cut off her sources and eventually cycle back around to me, and I became less and less available for it.

One thing I can recommend, set your own internal timer. Let it go as long as you're willing then end the call - there's someone at the door, you have an appointment, something boiled over on the stove, what have you but you have to go. Talk to you soon! When you do talk, keep it neutral - I learned to not share anything personal, not even my deeply felt beliefs or opinions. Knowledge is power and some will use that against you. I learned to not voice opposition to whatever she was angry about, just not worth the fallout there either. How's the wife? Fine. Kids? They're well. Job? Staying busy. Money? Hahahaha No. Need to know information only and turn it back to them. Be boooooooring! Lecture? HA! No thank you, I need to go clean my room now. Hahahahaha!

[Lilyloo]

No not silly in any way! I have not talked to mom on the phone in years.  The only contact is FB messages, and it's all about her! Its either whining or bragging  about what all the siblings have done for her.  I recently told her I'm off messenger too, so I blocked her.  I told her I may be back or I may not! LOL  We have to protect our peace, we just have too!!  Oh how great it would be to want to talk to them, but that is never happening.  I used to think it was  possible, but is not reality.

One thing I did learn, was not to engage. If she told me she had so many problems, I did not say anything but, "sorry for your troubles, and take care, have a good day. I refuse to listen to it. They are not the only person on this earth with troubles.   

You are doing the right thing, in taking care of you.  I'm sorry for your struggles.  I feel like you do, all we wanted was a pleasant conversation. Its sad to only hear about golden siblings, and our moms sad woeful life. WE MATTER TOO!!

[bee well]

Hi Rocketman,

I too, can see where you are coming from. Phone calls are a constant issue with my MIL. I struggle with the guilt but it's getting better.

She keeps on haranguing about the same things. Virus, money, how awful other peoples' kids are, how we worry her, why we "never" visit, Bla Bla Bla...A few days ago her stomach was so bad she couldn't eat. The next call she was in a restaurant with FIL in between courses of a full course meal with a kg of steak. I sensed she was about to unload on me and I just cut it short---"Sorry, gotta go I'm making our lunch, have a fabulous Sunday, then handed the phone back to DH. Hubby looked at me like "what? I thought you were going to talk to her this time." Me: "Nope" :=)

Advice I have gotten here, like what is quoted below, has been helpful to me, although I don't get it right everytime, I keep trying.

From Moglow:

One thing I can recommend, set your own internal timer. Let it go as long as you're willing then end the call - there's someone at the door, you have an appointment, something boiled over on the stove, what have you but you have to go. Talk to you soon! When you do talk, keep it neutral - I learned to not share anything personal, not even my deeply felt beliefs or opinions. Knowledge is power and some will use that against you. I learned to not voice opposition to whatever she was angry about, just not worth the fallout there either. How's the wife? Fine. Kids? They're well. Job? Staying busy. Money? Hahahaha No. Need to know information only and turn it back to them. Be boooooooring! Lecture? HA! No thank you, I need to go clean my room now. Hahahahaha!

And Cat of the Canals wrote:
Sometimes she calls three or four times before I have the mental space to return the call (I rarely answer her calls), and I no longer feel much guilt about that. So my advice would be to ride out the discomfort. It's worth it...
_______
So where am I going with this Rocketman? As you can see you are not alone here...It's your time, and you have every right to take care of you. (It's funny how it doesn't usually enter into "their" mind that you could be busy with important things of yours, or maybe you just don't feel like talking or whatever.) ... I hope you will "ride out the discomfort" as Cat of the Canals says and just keep up with your boundaries (For me that's what lessens the guilt.) When possible I turn the phone off and don't check messages when I don't want to  be bothered. MIL will later say, horrified "You didn't answer the phone!!!" Me: "Sometimes I don't answer the phone..."

Speaking of which the phone is now ringing incessantly...I wonder who that is???

[Sneezy]

Phone calls can be so tough to deal with.  One thing that sometimes helps me is that I can remember back to when there was one phone in every house, often attached to a wall.  There were no answering machines or caller ID and certainly no cell phones.  And somehow we all survived just fine.

I try to think of my phone as a tool.  I bought it for me, to make my life easier.  But no one else gets to force me to use my phone.  I don't have to answer it just because it's ringing.  I get to use this tool that I purchased on my terms.  It's mine, I bought it, I get to decide how to use it.  Don't let anyone bully you into answering or immediately calling/texting back if you don't feel like it.

[Tribe16]

Phone calls can be so tough to deal with.  One thing that sometimes helps me is that I can remember back to when there was one phone in every house, often attached to a wall.  There were no answering machines or caller ID and certainly no cell phones.  And somehow we all survived just fine.

I try to think of my phone as a tool.  I bought it for me, to make my life easier.  But no one else gets to force me to use my phone.  I don't have to answer it just because it's ringing.  I get to use this tool that I purchased on my terms.  It's mine, I bought it, I get to decide how to use it.  Don't let anyone bully you into answering or immediately calling/texting back if you don't feel like it.

Sneezy, this is so good. I love the idea of giving myself permission to use my "tool" as I see fit, and that I get to decide. Logically we know these things to be true, but it boosts our ownership of that thought when someone (like you) spells it out logically and clearly for us. Thank you.

[Rocketman]

Thank you everyone for your comments.  This shed quite a bit of light on how fragile the self worth I've worked very hard to develop recently still is.  I know I can compartmentalize when my mother resorts to using terms like "I just don't understand you" all while saying she misses talking to me.  What she misses is the control she had over me.  I do want to get to the point where I can grey rock through conversations, I've been able to do it, but it takes quite a bit out of me. 

Sneezy, I really appreciate your perspective on phones and tools.  I try to treat things in a utilitarian manner, so this spoke to me.  Texting/social media/perpetual connectivity became normal when I was a teenager, and even at that point I thought arguments about who texted when/posted what/etc etc was a bit immature.  I have to remember that my mother operates under the same rules as everyone else.  It's just a bit difficult when you try to apply that to the person who determined your self worth for so long. 

[Blueberry Pancakes]

None of this is silly to me at all. I have used similar terms "maintenance calls" and "to stay out of trouble" when calling my parents. The thing is, it just bubbles back up again and seems you can't get ahead of it. Using medium chill and grey rock help and maybe things don't escalate, but I still feel drained for days afterward. It seems like the phone becomes a weapon. I do not answer calls, but I get a physical wrenching feeling in my gut upon seeing their number on callerid.       
         
My parents also use terms "I just don't understand you" with exasperation and then say how much they miss me. I agree what they miss is the control they had. I have wondered if it also reflects a lack of object constancy. Our new behavior (boundaries?) of limiting calls is the opposite of what they would approve. I think just having this awareness and staying on track with what feels right to you in spite of how it is received is alright. You do not need to take responsibility for their emotional state, their happiness or how they respond when things do not go their way.

[Hilltop]

Hey Rocketman, no this isn't silly at all.  I haven't had phone calls with my mother in years.  The calls were not pleasant for me either.  My mother often puts me down or insults me so any contact with her left me feeling awful.  Really the calls for my mother were simply information gathering exercises.  Information for gossip is everything for my mother.  It would take me ages to get over contact with her and it took me a long time to really see that.

I actually got rid of our home phone and now only have a mobile.  My mother will not use any of her credit to call me, if it's going to cost her money nope.  So she will not call me on my mobile, even for my birthday, back then home phone was cheaper to call.  I'm assuming now it would be unlimited calls/texts but I don't know what plan she is on, I just know that she still won't call. She has asked a few times if we have a landline but I will never do that again.  I find text better with her as she will not insult me by text.  With the written word I can show others.  It also took me a long time to see this. How different she was in person/phone to written text.  This itself shows me that she knows what she is doing.

So yeah like a lot of other PP's the phone can be used as another source of tension.  I think the initial change is the hardest.  Perhaps work out how much contact you feel like having and then do that.  Grey rock, medium chill can work great.  Personally for me, I found that eventually I was still low energy after talking to my mother simply due to what she was saying so even if I was using grey rock, it didn't help me with the insults.  I would say grey rock is great for boundary pushing or information gathering where you can use grey rock/MC to shut down that conversation but not reacting to insults still left me feeling awful, so for me, I took away that line of communication.  It was a good step for me.

I think it's great you have stepped in to stop your mother going through your wife.  Boundaries are a great thing.  Hopefully after trying a few different things you will find something that works for you.

[donutmoonpanda]

Such a timely post for me. My new year's resolution this year was to cut back on calls with pdmom. Not just calls, but also text messages. It's been tricky. I expected her to be flustered with it at this point, but she's backed off quite a bit. I actualy got some much-needed space. Then she sent me a gift out of the blue 

I never know which way she's going to when I start setting boundaries. She can be mean blaming pdmom or the poor pitiful whiny mom who wants to enmesh with me. Honestly, I want the mean one. It's so much easier for me to be authentic and boundaried when she's being mean and pushy. But she whips out the sad "save me" vibes, my old conditioning just whirs into action and I have to stop myself from just giving her whatever she wants.

I have to say, not speaking to her has done wonders for my mental health. It's not just "out sight out of mind," I'm going to therapy and reading about self-care and recovery. But not having to be this inauthentic person each week, sitting through an hour or more of her talking about herself and the same old problems, gossiping about the same people, complaining about money so I'll pay her bills, never asking about me or my life. I'm generally happier. I feel lighthearted and more authentic in my other relationships. And without the weight of her judgment and all her neediness on my back, I can actually be spontaneous with my life for the first time.

I've promised myself not to call her until I actually want to speak to her. It just hasn't come up yet.

[sunshine702]

Back in 2010 I started picking up my dog doo in the backyard when I had to do the maintaince calls (wow perfect description)   it was a needed chore but the symbolism spoke to me. 

Fear. My dad. Could you call (lecture)
Obligation.  When there are multiple voicemails and I get anxiety.

GUILT.   I actually accidently put her calls straight to voicemail while banging on my phone at work once...and just sort of left it like that.

I doin't feel very heard a lot. 

All of these comments are very helpful
I thought I was the only one.