Individuating aged 66

[Granny May]

I recently pointed out to my mother two occasions where she had totally over-ridden my husband and myself saying No to her.

For the first, she rang and said her best friend had covid and she (mother) had flu.  She needed a birthday card to be posted, and would we go collect it and post it for her?  DH said yes, but please put it outside her front door so that he didn't have to interact with her and catch flu (or covid) from her.  She asked if we wanted some ham that she didn't feel up to eating and DH said No.  He went round there, she opened the door, and gave him the ham.  (She now swears she never said she had flu and it was only the cough she gets from time to time.  We both heard her say she had flu!)  DH bought the ham home and threw it straight into the bin and thoroughly disinfected his hands.  I was not pleased at her.  Or him either really

For the second, she rang and asked me if we could collect a box of craft stuff from her best friend and take it to her own house.  I told her 'It's Father's Day and we don't know what time our son is coming, and we'll do it Later'.  Within the hour she was at our front door, which DH answered, and told him her friend was going out, was leaving the craft box on her front verandah, and it might rain.  If the freind was going out, why couldn't she drop it at mother's on the way?  Friend has a car!  Well, faced with mother's 'I can't do anything, I'm pathetic' face he caved and went to transport the box.  I was livid!!!  66 years to gather the courage to say No to her and she just totally ignored me (of course!!!) and got her own way, and quickly, in both cases.

So I brewed and stewed for a couple of weeks and then she phoned and I took a lifetime's missing courage in my hands and told her that I was not impressed, in fact had been very angry about the Father's Day issue.  I was so calm sounding, but very firm when telling her about it.  She kept trying to slide sideways, but I just brought her back each time.  Even when she swore she never had flu, I just told her that wasn't the issue, the issue was that DH had asked her to keep her door shut and said we didn't want the ham, but she'd ignored both requests . I was shaking sooooo badly, but I did it.  Was so excited.  66 years old and only just learning to individuate and say No.  I did a really energetic happy dance in the middle of the lounge room to get rid of some of the shaking, though it lasted about 12 hours to decreasing degrees over that time.  She actually made some small apology noises during the call.  Said that when you live alone you can get selfish, and that she'd try harder in the future.  Pah!!!  I told her I'd help her see if she was doing it again.  Me!?!?  I can't believe those words came out of my mouth!  She also said that the day of my phone call was the 22nd anniversary of her 3rd husband's death.  Word salad attempting to excuse her behaviours of the few weeks before?  A total fail mother.

Since then, she has worked steadily on my husband to try to convince him that I was out of order and that she believes herself completely innocent.  In fact she's 'confused' as to what I was saying, thinks she's done 'nothing wrong' and has been 'really upset' wondering where I got such weird ideas that she, Mrs Perfect Angel, has done anything wrong in her entire life.  Unfortunately DH said I may have been still suffering stress from his overbearing father, who passed away in May.  No, no and heck no, I'm fully recovered from that.  I was telling her about her concrete, irrefutable behaviour within the previous month.  But of course she will take no blame.

I've gently spoken to hubby and asked him to try to be careful not to water down my very valid behaviour in future.  I'm just sorry he wasn't here to hear the way I spoke to her.  It was so calm and firm througout the call.  Perfection if dealing with a non-PD person.  The blame lays 100% on her, for her own behaviour.  She kept trying to slide sideways, but I just brought her back each time.  I was shaking sooooo badly, but I did it.  Was so excited.  66 years old and only just learning to individuate and say No, and now I have to stay strong and brave and keep doing it.  It's so outside of my natural kindness, but it has to be done.  I'm cycling in and out of having the strength to see this out, but I absolutely must or I'll lose the strong position I've finally clawed back for myself.  Please tell me I have to do this.  Any ideas or sayings to keep me on track would be very welcomed.  I've taken one massive step forward, but need to make sure I stay there without sliding back.

[doglady]

Awesome work, Granny May! It's never too late - to individuate (that should be a rap/punk/metal song).


I'm really impressed that you were able to speak logically and that you didn't let your mother off the hook, even though you were shaking so much. I can totally relate to the physical anxiety one experiences when standing up to difficult parents. You were so brave. People with normal parents don't know how scary this stuff is.

I also don't think you were going against your natural kindness. I see it as you finally being kind to yourself. And that takes some getting used to! I do hope you can keep practicing it because this is definitely the way forward.

I'm concerned that your hubby isn't as strongly supportive as you'd like. I'm glad you spoke to him and I hope he doesn't undermine your future efforts in asserting yourself with your mother. A united front is so much easier. I think in future it would be better if he deferred to you when your mother is in his ear, as it seems he's getting triangulated. Your Mother sounds very skilful at boundary stomping and getting her needs met! Why just in one post, you've described  her lying, guilt tripping, using the death anniversary, manipulating your husband, ignoring you - that's a whole compendium of tricks right there.

I'm sure others on the forum will weigh in with many great ideas but I say: keep the strength and keep standing your ground. Get hubby on side and tell him what you need. Because if not now, when? Proud of you, girl.  and keep up the happy dancing!

[feralcat]

Hi Granny M. I'm with you. Stay strong.

I'm 66 as well. I didn't ( get pushed, by unPdM ) Out of the FOG till I was 60. Shes now 89. I do so wish I'd had my epiphany decades ago , and gone NC. Now I'm VLC . It would feel too unkind. I can deal with telephoning her, but seeing her in the flesh as I did a couple of days ago is arghhhh. I can't imagine living near to her as you do. I literally was imagining strangling her, before I left. She has zero self awareness, and it's all about meeeeee.
She's similar to yours. Mine was an ignoring Witch Queen type - towards me. Now she's masquerading as a Waif. Like yours.
But underneath she's intelligent, manipulative and divisive. I'm sitting it out.

My problem even at 60 was that I realised if I cut her off I'd lose my large extended family. Because who wants  to acknowledge reality ? And they're incredibly, and sadly, enmeshed. They complain about each other all the time but won't talk it out openly. I feel blessedly indifferent now....there are some good threads on here about indifference. Also check out Dr Ramani on this, on YouTube . Excellent.

My H also has an abusive M. But he's not Out of the FOG. He'd rather put up with discomfort than stand up for himself. And he obeys the person who demands loudest. Mil until fairly recently. (I don't demand , but I have become more stubborn . I say No now. Gently but firmly. She probably hates that. It makes life a bit awkward for him, but I also realise gives him someone to hide behind. It's taken a while ...well, 6 years actually. Just shows, never too old , Granny May).
It may be that you have to state YOUR needs loudly, not gently, or your H will not listen to you. The Sis who I'd supported massively once told me that she couldn't support me - when I needed it - because I didn't ask 'loudly' enough. Just shows. Nice - and reciprocal - isn't good enough. Selective hearing. Your H may have to learn to sit with his discomfort. You can't please all of the people, all of the time.
And how does your unPdM communicate with her ? How will you react if he ignores you ?

Have you read the book The Nice Girl Syndrome ? Has he ? People always used to call me 'nice'. Now I know that some rely on me to be 'nice'. I.e.rugsweep everything if it suits them. Not upset the apple cart. But eventually it destroys you.

[treesgrowslowly]

Good for you! Individuating is tough.

Coming to terms with who our parent is - and that our mother is selfish, is hard. Good for you. Some people go their entire lives without ever individuating!

My advice to you is this - try your best not to get pulled in to arguing with your husband. At times it will happen, so nothing about recovery is 100%, some days are harder than others.

If / when your DH wants you to defend / explain your rationale, your reasoning, your inner work, the things you've done to get here, the importance of this work to your own sanity, the history you have with her, the memories you hold that he doesn't (from your childhood, etc...) I would say, really really consider how much better you'll feel if you share those with someone who is there simply to listen - for now. i.e. a therapist or counsellor or friend or journal or online forum group!

Right now you need spaces where YOUR feelings are center stage, not his, and certainly not hers!!

Early in our individuation we become strong and more assertive and confident - and it really helps if we find people who can just be there to see that new side of us, and cheer it on. And the first people to do that, are people who are capable / trained to recognize the sincere value in what you are doing for yourself.

Our partners can love us dearly, but their own fears are going to come up when they see us individuate. They may or may not be able to hold space for our new level of confidence until they have some time to work through their own stuff. They have their own emotions to work with. They may not realize that they are taken off guard by our new level of individuation.

Like you said, you want to hold on to this new level of self-assuredness and confidence. That requires you to have time each day (in my opinion) where your needs are center stage. That can be through going for walks alone, talking to a friend who understands you, going to counselling or doing something that keeps you in touch with your very valid desire for individuation work.

Some of us write / journal and meet with counsellors, because in those times, our own needs are center stage. Some people read books or listen to music that affirms the value of confidence and courage - we find inspiration to keep going with our own inner work to individuate, by seeing how others did that work in their lives. Stories of adversity can be helpful as they help to re-affirm the power we hold to define our own worth.

Are there any historical figures or prominent people in society whose stories speak to you? Where you can see that they too, found ways to assert themselves and individuate? For me, artists who express themselves with their music really speak to me. They found a way to share themselves with the world and that inspires me to keep going with my individuation work in my own life.

After a long time of having a selfish parent, this is important for us to experience times where it is all about us. When we try to make our partners understand us, we are actually making it about them. If they can listen without judgement great. But for a lot of spouses, our individuation process brings up their own anxieties.

And eventually, our spouses will usually (hopefully) recognize that the individuation steps we took, were valuable, and made the marriage stronger. But that doesn't always happen right away. Many many partners will struggle with their own fears / anxieties / confusion when their mate starts standing up for herself / himself. Let him find his way to seeing how much better this is for both of you. How much freedom there can be in setting aside your mother's needs as hers, and separate from your marriage.

In time, a lot of people come around to see that.

In the mean time, you do not need to defend or argue or explain why your new level of assertion is a good thing. Connect with people who know that - here and where ever you can. It will help bolster you over the coming months.

Good for you and welcome!

Trees

[NarcKiddo]

You say "it's so outside of my natural kindness...".

I raised just this point with my therapist the other day. She made the following points:

What does being kind or unkind truly look like? (Not from the point of view of the PD, but objectively.)

You don't have to do everything someone wants you to do in order to be kind to them.

Kindness does not mean you constantly have to bow to someone else.

Being kind to someone else should not mean being unkind to ourselves over the longer term. There might be the odd occasion where we have to forego something due to the actual and immediate needs of someone else

.

[moglow]

About that kindness ...

What does being kind or unkind truly look like? (Not from the point of view of the PD, but objectively.)
You don't have to do everything someone wants you to do in order to be kind to them.

Kindness does not mean you constantly have to bow to someone else.

Being kind to someone else should not mean being unkind to ourselves over the longer term. There might be the odd occasion where we have to forego something due to the actual and immediate needs of someone else

Read that again!! There is nothing unkind about holding another accountable for their own behavior and choices. I know she wouldn't agree but that's neither here nor there. At the same time, actions will always speak louder than words - boundaries are about actions. What we choose when faced with [mis]behaviors will say a lot more than any words ever will. Boundaries aren't rules for others to obey but rather OUR determination of what's best for us then we follow through with respecting our boundaries in whatever way we feel is best.

Had anyone else done what your mother did, what would you have said/done - say a friend or neighbor even? Perhaps not answered the door at all [that's my go-to when I'm not expecting anyone!]? Or firmly said, "I'm sorry - as I mentioned on the phone we'll have to collect the box for you later." [Be kind but be firm]  The whole flu thing though!! My head would have exploded with that alone. First I'd provide her with stamps for her cards/mail going forward, she can drop it in the mailbox herself. What I *wouldn't* have done is take the package from her - i'd have stepped back and declined. Repeatedly if necessary.

My guess is, it's all about attention and she's forcing it however she can. You and your husb likely need a united front regardless. If he can't say no, then fine - he can deal with her while you carry on without him. You can still refuse to alter your plans or activities around her.

You CAN do this - be kind AND firm. You don't have to tell her why No is your answer - sometimes giving any information opens the door for complaints, excuses, justifications etc that you don't need. You can make your plans and not take her call. You can go about your day and not answer the door. If hubby answers the door and lets her in, fine. Speak, be pleasant and "I'm in the middle of ... I'll talk to you soon/later." You can carry on as you were before she showed up and he can entertain her. 

[Cat of the Canals]

This is such an inspiring post to read. I would love to get to a place of holding my PDmom and PDmil accountable while maintaining that level of calm.

As for maintaining this new assertiveness, just keep reminding yourself of how good and strong you felt, and how you held your own despite her best attempts to slither sideways. You've got this! 

[Liketheducks]

Granny May, I'm so inspired by your post.   Well done you!   I'm 10 year old trapped in a 54 year old body.   Individuating was SO hard for me.   Saying no or holding my parents accountable and I get so much push back.    Oh....and when they enlist my husband when I say NO.....Grrrrr.    Well done!

[Granny May]

Thank you so much everyone.  What heart-warming understanding and compassion from you all, I'm so grateful to you all, and to be here on this forum.  I love the 'feel' of this place.  Everyone is dealing in positives and focussing on healing, rather than ranting in stagnation.  I'm so grateful and impressed.

Awesome work, Granny May! It's never too late - to individuate (that should be a rap/punk/metal song).

LOL it really should!

You were so brave. People with normal parents don't know how scary this stuff is.

Thank you!  Probably the bravest thing I've done in my entire life, as freezing or running have definitely been my 'go to'.

I'm concerned that your hubby isn't as strongly supportive as you'd like. I'm glad you spoke to him and I hope he doesn't undermine your future efforts in asserting yourself with your mother. A united front is so much easier. I think in future it would be better if he deferred to you when your mother is in his ear, as it seems he's getting triangulated. Your Mother sounds very skilful at boundary stomping and getting her needs met! Why just in one post, you've described  her lying, guilt tripping, using the death anniversary, manipulating your husband, ignoring you - that's a whole compendium of tricks right there.

He used to absolutely refuse to believe that she (or anyone else) could possibly have any negative intent, and would tell me I was being aggressive as I spend hours trying to work through why these people had treated me badly and what I'd done to cause their behaviour.  We've been married 47 years, despite that , so he's come a very, very long way.  He can finally see that she goes out of her way to be pathetic so that everyone will help her and he's finally getting glimpses of the evil intent.  I'm very, very grateful that we've reached this point at last, and he can finally see that he has to man up and stand up to her as well.  He hates asserting himself as much as I do, but he's now willing.  And made the first step last night.  It's amazing.

Thank you for your wisdom and kindness.

[Granny May]

I'm 66 as well. I didn't ( get pushed, by unPdM ) Out of the FOG till I was 60. Shes now 89. I do so wish I'd had my epiphany decades ago , and gone NC. Now I'm VLC . It would feel too unkind. I can deal with telephoning her, but seeing her in the flesh as I did a couple of days ago is arghhhh. I can't imagine living near to her as you do. I literally was imagining strangling her, before I left. She has zero self awareness, and it's all about meeeeee.
She's similar to yours. Mine was an ignoring Witch Queen type - towards me. Now she's masquerading as a Waif. Like yours.
But underneath she's intelligent, manipulative and divisive. I'm sitting it out.

The time lost feels tragic doesn't it?  I guess we can only look at what we've achieved at last and be grateful that we did wake up at all.  VLC sounds excellent to me.  You've laid some groundwork and can always change the stakes if needed.  I can understand the strangulation dreams LOL  I often wonder if they are aware.  If yours is like mine and can act like a decent person in public then I have to think that they are aware.  They have to be!  That's the only reasoning that will start to convince my DH that it's deliberate on her part.  I actually have always made sure never to be alone with her for around 10 years now.  It really limits what cruel things she can say and has helped things a lot.  Her desire to appear angelic to others far outweighs her need to rubbish me.  Woohoo!

I do watch Dr Ramani, she's amazing isn't she?  I also love Jay Reid - he **really** gets it.  And Dr Les Carter, plus Richard Grannon if you don't mind his very down-to-earth manner and some swearing.  He's worth it.

My H also has an abusive M. But he's not Out of the FOG. He'd rather put up with discomfort than stand up for himself. And he obeys the person who demands loudest. Mil until fairly recently. (I don't demand , but I have become more stubborn . I say No now. Gently but firmly. She probably hates that. It makes life a bit awkward for him, but I also realise gives him someone to hide behind. It's taken a while ...well, 6 years actually. Just shows, never too old , Granny May).

I'm sorry to hear that, but very glad you cah see the difference your stubbornness is making.  Go you!!!  I've very sorry about your Sis letting you down so badly too, that sucks.

My NM loves DH to bits.  Thinks he's the absolute best because he loves her.  That'll do it with a covert narc eh?  I guess someone 'has to' love her so I let it be as long as he's not actively working against me and we're making huge strides in that at last, after a very slowly slowly for all these years.

No I haven't read the book The Nice Girl Syndrome, I'll have to watch out for that, thank you.  DH doesn't like to hear about anything unhappy (the original Pollyanna) so he wouldn't read a psych book unless his life depended on it.  He's one of those rare people who had a happy childhood and brilliant parents, lucky wotsit

Keep well and thank you so much for your thoughtful reply.

[Granny May]

My advice to you is this - try your best not to get pulled in to arguing with your husband. At times it will happen, so nothing about recovery is 100%, some days are harder than others.
[/quote\
Thankfully we're past that now, but it certainly happened in the past.  I'd always end up in tears with him accusing me of being 'aggressive' if I said what I thought I should have replied to the abuser (I have a few of course, not just NM).  I hadn't even said those things, too frozen at the time to think of them!  But he's slowly opened his eyes and come to realise the truth so we're on the homeward run now.  You're right, and I've read some parts of the replies here to him.  He does take notice of others' words more than mine really, so it's all good.

Right now you need spaces where YOUR feelings are center stage, not his, and certainly not hers!!

I **love** this!  I read it to DH and he took it in.  Did a little laugh of acknowledgement.

Early in our individuation we become strong and more assertive and confident - and it really helps if we find people who can just be there to see that new side of us, and cheer it on. And the first people to do that, are people who are capable / trained to recognize the sincere value in what you are doing for yourself.

Everyone here <3  I'm loving the understanding and encouragement. Fortunately DH still loves me.  From the quivering jelly, bent in two that I was originally, to the much stronger person I am now.  I do realise how fortunate I am and how rare that is.  He's always been my best friend, and I have never really had many IRL.  My current only friend is a lady half a world away that I've never met IRL, but we've been eFriends for nearly 10 years.  IRL associates always end up using and/or disappointing me too much.

I love journalling.  I've started to keep a record of the things NM does, and my reactions to the behaviour. I'll have to look out for an inspiring person as I don't have one, as you've suggested.  That makes sense.

Thank you very much for your wise reply and kindness, Trees.

[Granny May]

You say "it's so outside of my natural kindness...".

I raised just this point with my therapist the other day. She made the following points:

What does being kind or unkind truly look like? (Not from the point of view of the PD, but objectively.)

You don't have to do everything someone wants you to do in order to be kind to them.

Kindness does not mean you constantly have to bow to someone else.

Being kind to someone else should not mean being unkind to ourselves over the longer term. There might be the odd occasion where we have to forego something due to the actual and immediate needs of someone else

.

That's fantastic, thank you.  Words to dwell on that's for sure <3

[Granny May]

About that kindness ...
Kindness does not mean you constantly have to bow to someone else.
Being kind to someone else should not mean being unkind to ourselves over the longer term.
There is nothing unkind about holding another accountable for their own behavior and choices.

You're right.  Very right, thank you!  I've needed all of these amazing replies and they've been very real confirmation that I must stay strong and not throw away what I have so far gained.  Some may say 'at long last' LOL

Had anyone else done what your mother did, what would you have said/done - say a friend or neighbor even? Perhaps not answered the door at all [that's my go-to when I'm not expecting anyone!]? Or firmly said, "I'm sorry - as I mentioned on the phone we'll have to collect the box for you later." [Be kind but be firm]  The whole flu thing though!! My head would have exploded with that alone. First I'd provide her with stamps for her cards/mail going forward, she can drop it in the mailbox herself. What I *wouldn't* have done is take the package from her - i'd have stepped back and declined. Repeatedly if necessary.

Experience shows that if anyone mistreats me I leave them in my dust as soon as humanly possible.  I wish I'd known that NC was a thing years ago, but now that she's 87, with emphysema, I feel that I guess I'm in it to the end.  Plus living only steps away from her - but out of sight thank goodness!  We've installed a door camera so that we can see if it's her and ignore it.  I have often done so, but DH struggles.  Or did in the past.  I think he could do it now She said she was too sick to be able to make it to the post box, she had the stamps, and DH fell for it.  Unfortunately it was DH that went round there or I think I would have refused the ham.  He's a big softie, but has finally seen it in action through these 2 recent events and I think will be far more supportive in the future.  At last he can see her manipulative ways even if he can't see her evil, cruel intent towards me with her words because she only does it as soon as he turns his back, never in front of her.  And it was him that met her at the door over the craft box debacle.  But that was the final straw of him seeing the truth, so I guess in the long run it's been a good thing.  Hopefully

My guess is, it's all about attention and she's forcing it however she can. You and your husb likely need a united front regardless. If he can't say no, then fine - he can deal with her while you carry on without him. You can still refuse to alter your plans or activities around her.

Ha ha I love that!  He's had to shower her on one occasion because she was 'losing it both ends' and I can't cope with stuff like that.  I can barely stand to look at her, much less touch her, and much less clear up her extrusions!  Yes, it's definitely all about attention with her.

Thank you very much for your wisdom and kindness.

[Granny May]

This is such an inspiring post to read. I would love to get to a place of holding my PDmom and PDmil accountable while maintaining that level of calm.

As for maintaining this new assertiveness, just keep reminding yourself of how good and strong you felt, and how you held your own despite her best attempts to slither sideways. You've got this! 

Thank you so much!  I love that it has been a help to you as well.  I love the encouragement here on this forum, and the kindness.  I really did feel strong, it was blowing my mind while feeling incredible.  I love your word 'slither'.  She sure did.  Well, tried and failed 

[Granny May]

Granny May, I'm so inspired by your post.   Well done you!   I'm 10 year old trapped in a 54 year old body.   Individuating was SO hard for me.   Saying no or holding my parents accountable and I get so much push back.    Oh....and when they enlist my husband when I say NO.....Grrrrr.    Well done!

I thought I was the only one with a pushover husband.  You have my understanding there, it's so annoying isn't it?  You use all your strength to struggle out a No and you may as well not have bothered!  I'd laughingly suggest that we just respond to any parental request with 'Oh, ask DH, I'm sure he'd love to!'  But that doesn't help us grow and overcome does it?

I've been walked all over by anyone in the least inclined that way my whole life, in particular one ON cousin who's spent our lives trying to look more intelligent than I am.  She probably is, but I wasn't ever aware it was a competition.  When I think of the friendship and love we could have shared if she'd been respectful... it's such a shame.  I have felt incredibly lonely in life at times.  Potential friends always end up disappointing (if not, exploiting) me so I now stick to acquaintances more than anything.  One good eFriend to tell everything to, and the friendship of DH, which is wonderful in every other way except his lack of understanding of PD people.  I can't complain.

I love ducks!  I've been told I'm like one, calm on top and paddling like crazy underneath.  Dogs and ducks = love, peace, calm.

[Spring Butterfly]

 
I am so proud of you!!! You got this 100% and own it!!

Her response is very typical behavior and she's ticking so many of list of Top 100 Traits.

[Granny May]

I am so proud of you!!! You got this 100% and own it!!

Her response is very typical behavior and she's ticking so many of list of Top 100 Traits.

Thank you so much. It's amazing to be here amongst people celebrating my strength instead of virtually telling me I'm being too harsh with such a sweet old lady. As DH had always seen her.

I wonder if NM would be pleased with herself getting all those 'correct behaviour' ticks from the narc traits list? Probably. None of them have any true idea of what behaviours are best to excel at. Funny really, if we can manage to laugh about it.

It's lovely to meet you 

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi Granny May,

So great to hear that you and your DH are close as you described.

Great to meet a fellow journaling person too! Journaling has helped me so much in my journey.

It's a space to just let out the thoughts without having to be concerned with anyone's feelings. A space to just write how you feel! So great to do when going through the individuation experiences!

Trees

[mary_poppins]

It;s never too late to individuate. I like this saying, it/s true.

[Leonor]

  Our entire life is a journey of individuation

Who am I? What is right for me? How do I want to engage with others? Where do I want to go in this world? What do I like on my pizza?

These are questions we ask ourselves all the time; our answers evolve as we move through our journey.

May, I hear you punish yourself for being childish and ignorant and stupid. You're 66. You're not a Granny unless you have grandchildren, and that's a relationship, not an age. I hear you undermine your own growth with phrases like "it's about time" or "finally." That's not kind. In fact, that's a sneaky way your trauma is $#@ing with you- your mom's voice is still in your head, criticizing you for daring to put up a very reasonable boundary for yourself.

May, you have managed to individuate in so many ways. Do you have a home? A partner? A circle of acquaintances? A favorite pastime? Preferences for what color you like to wear, flowers, tv shows, artists, pizza toppings? Do you ever try something new and decide whether you like it or not? That's individuation. That counts.

But if you think that you only start with Mom, that's a setup for beating yourself up. Because Mom is so much more than the little old lady down the street. Mom is everything. Mother Earth. Mother Nature. Mother tongue. In the faith I was raised in, the greatest figure of love and devotion is the Mother of God. Think of monster movies: you get rid of the Bad Guy, but then you have to face off against his ... mom!

Okay, that's pretty heavy, but you get the idea: You don't start your adult life by dealing with mom. That's not the Start line.

Besides it doesn't sound so much to me as you not individuating from Mom, but rather that the way you relate to her is no longer working for you. She's 87. She cannot or will not bathe herself. You shouldn't be the go-to person for that, because it just isn't safe. If she struggles with day to day things, she needs a competent professional. That is not you and that is not DH.

So it might be time for you and DH to have a conversation about pragmatics. You can frame it in terms of what you can and cannot do for the little old lady down the street, when you can do it, and how to go about it. Don't spend time trying to "make him see," or trying to solve her problems. That will get you right back to square one, and besides, I have a feeling that Mom likes DH because he gives her access to controlling you (as the second-best thing), DH likes Mom because she showers him with appreciation, and you liked it because DH allowed you to stay in relationship with her without actually dealing with her. So talking about that is just going to drag you and DH into an argument when what you really want is to build a team.

Make this an agreement between you and DH, write it down and stick it on the fridge: "We talk to Mom on (day)." "We visit Mom on (day)." Anything outside if those dates and times is handed off to the pros: sink leaky? Call the plumber. Groceries low? Call delivery service. Rapid heartbeat? Call the ambulance. Period!

You're not late or stupid or slow. You're right on time! Everyone in our generation is dealing with elder care and the turbulent emotions and issues it brings. The fact that you can hold all of this in your awareness is amazing.