Narcissistic parent and chronic illness (how did you go NC)

[mary_poppins]

I'm sure there are people in my situation, that's why I am asking.
How do those of you who have a narcissistic parent suffering from a chronic illness go no contact without losing their mind from the guilt, shame and obligation? My PD dad has cancer and i feel i need to be 'there' for him even more now than usual. However, I am kind of fed up with both of them but with my father especially. He is the centre of attention 98% of the time and I kind of think that he's using the illness to garner more supply.
It's unfair because whenver I was sick and he had to be there for me, he totally ignored what I was going through. He never actually asked me if I felt better (I had a mild version of Covid) or how is it going. Never. He pretended as nothing was going on. And now he wants my attention and empathy?
I'm really pissed.

[JustKat]

Hi MaryPoppins,

I've been through this so I get the roller coaster of emotions.

I'll be completely honest about my Nmother. When she was diagnosed with cancer I just didn't care. I kept remembering the times she denied me medical care as a child as a "punishment" for being a bad kid, and well ... Karma. She also used her illness for five years to garner more supply. In fact, it occurred to me that she was initially faking cancer and over the course of five years actually contracted it. When she died I was relieved that she was gone and couldn't hurt me anymore.

It was harder with my enFather in the years after my mother died. I felt guilty for not visiting him. He was aging, and I kept holding onto hope that he would reach out to me in a genuine way, maybe attempt to make things right. Instead, he spent six years sending me cards with guilt messages in them. I was a bad kid for not visiting him, he was getting old and I should be there, on and on. Not once did he tell me that he missed me, that he wanted to talk, and (really wishful thinking) that he was sorry. He died last fall and I never heard any of those things.

Like you, I was always ignored when I was sick or experiencing hard times. It's more than unfair. It's downright cruel. I never contracted Covid but during that period my father sent several hoover cards and never asked how I was doing. I kept asking myself, what if I had contracted Covid and been hospitalized or even died? Would he have even cared? The simple answer is no.

If you feel guilty, ashamed, or obligated it's because they've raised you to feel that way. You're not obligated to take care of someone who mistreated you. It sounds like your father is getting his narc supply met through other family members, so if you want to stay away, then do that. Take care of you.

[guitarman]

You need to decide what your boundaries are and firmly stick to them.

Decide how much time you are comfortable spending with them, if any at all.

Change need to, must, could or should into want. What do you WANT to do?

I have an uBPD/NPD sister. She always thinks she has serious life threatening illnesses. I was afraid to go no contact with her in case all her imaginary illnesses were in fact real.

I have gone no contact with her. I care but can't cope. I can't keep getting back on her emotional rollercoaster with her.

I have put my needs first. It's OK to do that.

Give over the responsibility of you caring for your loved one to the professionals.

Other people don't really understand what it is like caring for someone living with a PD.

You have to do what is right for you first. Whatever you decide will be the right decision because you made it.

If you stay in contact it will never be enough. They have an empty hole that can never be filled no matter how much money, time, care or love you put into it.

Whatever happens remain calm. Don't feed their narcissistic supply.

Observe, don't absorb.

Become a lighthouse not a lifeboat.

We need to work on building our self esteem. Then we are better able to cope.

You can send your best wishes from afar, if that is what is required to keep you well and healthy. You matter too. Your well-being is important. Your mental and physical health are important.

You've probably already done much more than anyone else would ever do.

Talk to yourself with your adult calm voice. It's what I do. I calmly tell my inner critic that I've already done enough. I've been generous, kind and loving. My inner critic and inner child keep telling me that I should be doing so much more. But they are the voices of my abuser talking to me.

I now call my uBPD/NPD sister my abuser and I am her target of abuse. It's how I have redefined our relationship. Abusers are all about power and control.

You are not alone.

Keep calm. Stay strong. Stay safe. Keep posting.

[easterncappy]

When I was a teenager, my dad had one of his typical meltdowns and managed to make my mom feel terrible for him. I was instructed to go outside and tell him how much I love him and how important he is to me to make him feel better. I was really uncomfortable doing it, but I did it anyway... I wish I didn't. By that point in my life, the possibility of any warm feelings towards him was non-existent and quite frankly, I didn't really care how he felt. I knew it was all manipulation. Besides, when's the last time he cared about how I felt?

I only shared that because... you need to think about how much of this you actually want to be doing vs. how much of it you're doing because of FOG, family pressure, "how it'd look" if you didn't, etc. You might really regret wasting your time, energy, and sanity spending God knows how long looking after some guy who more than likely doesn't care about you at all (sorry if that's mean - but PD parents do not have normal feelings towards their children).

Any time my family tries to guilt trip me about how cruel I am for keeping a distance from my dad, I always say "if he wanted to be a part of my life, he had over two decades to learn how to treat me nicely". Usually shuts them up. And unless God works an actual miracle, one day it'll have to be "if he wanted to be comforted by me as he died, he shouldn't have spent over two decades severely abusing me".

I knew a lady whose dad was just like mine. It was uncanny, our childhood experiences were almost identical. One day, she got a call from a relative saying that she needs to go to X hospital because her dad was dying. She went, and it was just awkward. Her dad didn't really care, and it was just "uh... okay..." as he died. She felt relieved. Unfortunately, the whole experience ended up sucking her back into a lot of family drama that she had avoided for over a decade before his death, and her mental health suffered so greatly that we don't talk anymore.

I think it's good to comfort the dying, but not when the cost of doing such is your own dignity and mental well-being. Does he even really want the comfort? Or is he just gathering supply, starting drama, and being a generally miserable PD parent even on his deathbed? And if you're worried about how it'll look, don't. Any family members close to him know what he's like, and have decided that his behavior is somehow worth it. Anyone who is going to hear you out is going to hear you out, and anyone who has "taken his side" has made their decision too.

[Boat Babe]

One of our members said that their mother died whilst still giving everyone the finger. Says it all really.

As to how much time and energy you decide to offer is almost impossible to advise. I would use my rule of thumb in all decision making processes regarding PDs.  Imagine you are sitting with your best friend and this is their story. What would you advise them?  I bet you big money you have a clear and instant reply. This is because you can make a rational decision unclouded by fear, obligation and guilt. Now, apply this excellent advice to yourself Mary Poppins! Sending hugs as you navigate this difficult time.

[mary_poppins]

@JustKathy

Thank you, Kathy for your perspective. And for validation. Yes, it is cruel to completely ignore your own child/adult child when they are sick. PD dad did the same thing when I was small and was sick with all sort of things. He never once made a cup of tea for me or asked me 'Are you feeling better?'
You don't need to make any effort to ask this sort of thing. I mean, you would ask a stranger how they are doing and if they feel better, right?

I guess the anger comes from the fact that this person never ever cared about my health (and showed it clearly) and he now expects me to be there for him and treat him like he's such a poor soul who's struggling to get better. This is how I grew up: I needed to show care and concern for my parents but they didn't have to do the same for us. It's a one way relationship and god forbid I changed the rules.

[mary_poppins]

@guitarman
Thank you for your very kind words. I made some notes.
My boundary now is that I don't want to be involved in caring for my father. My mother is reponsible for that. (she is actually his caretaker and I find it odd because she's the malignant narcissist in the family and she's covertly trying to sabotage his health-example, she's giving him the wrong foods so his immune system can't fight the illness ).

I actually did not care for him because, in my opinion, they all treat me as a scapegoat. As if they've made a pact to keep me out of the situation with the health of my father. They all talk about it and make plans of getting him better (I'm sure my mother is constantly trying to coverty sabotage this plan) and keep me out of it regarding the information. That's what they've done all my life. Whenever the family had to take a decision regarding something important, Mary would be the last one to find out (if at all). I guess I have always been the scapegoat because I was away for many years and did not like to gossip with them and get into their drama.

Thank you for saying that whatever I decide is the right decision for me because I have made the decision. You have no idea how much this helped me on a subconscious level.

[mary_poppins]

@easterncappy

Thanks for the thoughts. You are correct. I might regret spending my time and energy caring for someone who doesn't care about me at all. It's horrible to admit that but, looking back over the childhood years, I was sick a few times and PD dad was nowehere there to be 'there' for me, to comfort me, to make me a cup of tea. He was always gone, somewehere with work or with friends.

'Does he even want the comfort?'
This is a great question!

Now that I think about it, maybe not.
My father is also struggling with type 2 diabetes. I caught him one day fighting with my mother who told him that he should not eat pies because of his high blood sugar. He then said 'I can eat whatever I want. It is me who's going to die, not you.'
So yeah, he may not care about his health and if he doesn't care, it won't matter to him if I am there for him to help him or not.

I feel as if my father has decided many years ago that he's going to destroy his own body with alcohol, junk food and pills. Unfortunately, he has managed to do that.
He seems aware of the fact that it was all his doing.

BTW, I just wanna mention that he is not on his deathbed. He's undergoing treatment so all is well for now.
But I get your point.

The bit about your friend going to her father in his last hours of life is telling. PDs will die with hate in their hearts for their children. I gotta accept that.

[mary_poppins]

Thank you, Boat Babe.

If Mary Poppins was a friend I'd advise to do what she feels it's good for her to do. To put her health and mental well-being first.
That's what my instinct tells me.

[Boat Babe]

Thank you, Boat Babe.

If Mary Poppins was a friend I'd advise to do what she feels it's good for her to do. To put her health and mental well-being first.
That's what my instinct tells me.

There's your answer Mary. 

[feralcat]

Mary. You're right. They don't care, the ignoring types. Especially if to be ignored, whilst also parentified, is your role in the family. They're incapable of 'seeing' you. Unless it's to diminish you when any attention you get, or deserve, is deemed to be competition. Or reducing your ability to do stuff for THEM.
I get what you say about the covert sabotage as well. Both my unPdM and unPdMil did this to their late husbands. EnFIL was disabled in the end but still was still expected to push her in a wheelchair. Now he dead she's got an electric scooter, and wants to have her knee privately done. Her kids of course arrange all this.

[overitall]

Hi Mary,

I can share with you what I have experienced recently...background story is I was NC for almost 10 years....had to attend several family events where my parents were present...approximately a year and a half ago, after attending an event, I felt sorry for them because they had both become so old and sickly...stupid me, I reinstated contact. 

My uNPDf had cancer and has a feeding tube, etc.  Five years ago, (while I was NC) he attended one of my children's wedding and made it a point at the wedding reception to go around to everyone (100+ people) to say his "farewells, because he was dying"  My child was in tears and he definitely put a big downer on the entire event....Low and behold, five years later, he's still alive and kicking!!  He LOVES the attention he receives because he's sick....he milks it like you wouldn't believe...the sad puppy dog eyes, the poor me, etc.

Behind his facade is a narcissistic, selfish, immature, shell of a person...I spent the last year and half picking him up every Sunday, taking him to church and returning him home (only to have to deal with my uBPDm, who I cannot stand at all)  I would stay at the house for about an hour and then leave.  On the ride home from church, I heard about how this person said this, and that person did that etc., etc.  I guess when you're that old your life becomes very, very small.  uBPDm spews venom about everything in life; she has always been a miserable person and literally does not have one friend (never did--stayed at home for over 60 years watching TV and complaining).

During the course of the year and a half, I very clearly remember why I went NC.  Both parents complain, criticize, bicker, lecture, etc.  NO ONE cares about them (Um, don't I come every week and deal with you?)  Both siblings live local and don't come around..both too "busy" even though retired, while I am still working full-time.  I witnessed them complain and gossip about EVERYONE, every single person they have any contact with is "free territory."

I am very very independent (had to be because both parents never did one thing for me)  I left home at 17 and never went back.  Well, my uNPDf did me a favor...a HUGE favor.  He told one of my adult children that he was sure I was taking him to church on Sundays because "I want his money."  There it is...while I was taking him to church, worrying about whether he would fall, he was worrying about me wanting his money!!!

Called both of them the same day and informed them both that I would no longer have any contact whatsoever...Further confirmed that I never asked for money, never received money in my entire life, and that they could find someone else to deal with their crap...uNPDf tried talking to several of my adult children, who all confirmed to him that they agreed with me and that they would most likely never see me again.....

I am FREE, FREE, and FREE!!  No guilt---I tried and did nothing wrong and it still is not good enough...  

Remember who you are and who they are...don't waste your time trying to please them, because you are only an object to them...when they can't manipulate you, they will find someone else to get what they want.  Those of us with PD parents understand...there is nothing you can do to save them from themselves

[easterncappy]

Behind his facade is a narcissistic, selfish, immature, shell of a person...I spent the last year and half picking him up every Sunday, taking him to church and returning him home (only to have to deal with my uBPDm, who I cannot stand at all)  I would stay at the house for about an hour and then leave.  On the ride home from church, I heard about how this person said this, and that person did that etc., etc.  I guess when you're that old your life becomes very, very small.  uBPDm spews venom about everything in life; she has always been a miserable person and literally does not have one friend (never did--stayed at home for over 60 years watching TV and complaining).

During the course of the year and a half, I very clearly remember why I went NC.  Both parents complain, criticize, bicker, lecture, etc.  NO ONE cares about them (Um, don't I come every week and deal with you?)  Both siblings live local and don't come around..both too "busy" even though retired, while I am still working full-time.  I witnessed them complain and gossip about EVERYONE, every single person they have any contact with is "free territory.

I'm very sorry that you went through this, unfortunately it's basically what happens every time adult children of abusive parents feel a need to reconnect with their abusive parents. OP, take notes and also remember my friend who got sucked back into her family's drama on her dad's deathbed and became so bad off for it that I genuinely don't recognize her. These people are not going to change. If you stop talking to them, they view it as "woe is me" and not "what did I do to cause this?". It's good for you to go NC but it's probably only going to make them worse, if anything.

In fact, the only time I've heard of a PD parent "changing" during NC was in an article written by a supposedly reformed PD mother. She wrote probably the longest "please congratulate me for going to therapy and changing myself" self-absorbed diary entry I'd ever seen. I suspect that what happened is that her children told her what she ought to do to keep them around, and she decided to do it the PD "me me me" way. Of course, this is all suspicion, but when you grow up with these people, you learn to read between the lines very well. My husband's PD mom has been "seeing a psychiatrist" for a couple of years... I recently learned that he's been telling her that everything she did to abuse my husband when he was a minor was actually perfectly okay, and that he also supports her "talking to God" (she claims to hear voices in her head). So, even in the extremely rare case that an abusive PD parent does do the bare minimum to "fix" things, you can be sure that they'll find a way to do it totally ass-backwards.

Yet the parent-child bond is so sacred that even if PD parents don't bother to "change things", we still want to secretly hope that deep down inside, maybe, there's a good, loving parent underneath layers of trauma or whatever we think "made" them this way... right? Even at 25, with a family of my own, I would do anything to know what it's like to have a good, loving mom and dad. But if you come from an abusive system, it's best not to blindly follow the natural feelings that people have to love their "imperfect" parents. It's just going to hurt you in the end, and quite frankly most of these parents couldn't care less if their kids are in their lives or not.

I had a friend who worked with the elderly and said that the nice ones only grow nicer, and the mean ones only grow meaner. I'm not taking that as an authoritative psychological statement, but I think there's she's onto something. I think she was probably dealing with a lot of PD parents and grandparents whose children and grandchildren didn't talk to them that much anymore, and they were increasingly bitter about it in their old age, never once stopping to think "huh, maybe I'm the common denominator here". Nope, everything was "woe is me" until they died. The trope of the sad, sweet grandma sitting alone in a nursing home going "why, oh why won't my children visit me anymore!"... is actually about a bitter PD woman who drove her children away and can't own up to it.