Doubting self - feelings, thougts etc.

[Sunny_day]

I'm struggling with validating my feelings or beliefs regarding past emotional abuse, especially when I want to explain it to others. Historically this has been very hard for me and although I progressed well over years I still get the occassional nagging 'maybe it wasn't that bad, what do I have to complain about, I'm too sensitive?'. This is about early physical abuse/hitting, criticizing and comparing, verbal outbursts which left me feel shaken, constant overstepping boundaries - mental and physical (I used to compare it to mental rape because this is how it felt), gaslighting and triangulation. Some of these still occur if there is contact (I'm NC/VLC depending on family member). It took me years to  find my voice and learn to trust self. How do you deal with this?

[TriedTooHard]

This has been a very long struggle for me too, even though I've been actively working on healing for many years now.  It sounds like we've had a similar upbringing.   Its very confusing to sort out why I got things better than others in my FOO, and why there were good times mixed in with the bad.  So, I'm trying not to bother sorting that out anymore.

I think having some contact with the non-disordered FOO members who are still in the FOG causes this problem to linger much longer.  I've patiently waited for them to come Out of the FOG, hoping for some future support.  This takes a big toll on us.   

I am now trying to find a way to not shut the door completely on these non-disordered people still in the FOG, but to withdraw further.  The older I get, the longer breaks from them I need.  The first few times I took a break, I felt really bad, but its more and more out of self preservation.

[rubixcube]

Sunny_day, I'm really sorry. I know that confusion you're feeling well. Very well.

I still struggle with not trusting my perception of reality, and I'm still inclined to feel guilt and shame for what what done to ME. More than anything, it seems to me, this fog and doubt we feel has to do with the gaslighting. We were taught that it's not ok to express ourselves –our feelings, likes and dislikes. We were punished for it even with criticism, shaming, guilting, gaslighting, and blame. It wasn't until I realized that my childhood WAS ACTUALLY traumatic, and not just "not as bad as some other people's" that the lightbulbs started going off and I began realizing that I have CPTSD traits; am codependent; have CPTSD flashbacks when triggered by shaming, guilting, gaslighting, violence, and aggressiveness; and have been attracting narcissistic and damaged women into my life since I can remember.

There are two books I'm reading at the moment that I think are phenomenal and very eye opening:

• Complex PTSD by Pete Walker – https://amzn.to/2Qb2nzK
• When I say No, I Feel Guilty by Manuel J. Smith – https://amzn.to/2HqHU77

In Complex PTSD(I can't recommend this book enough) he says that shame is anger directed toward the self. I thought that was brilliant.
When we doubt that our past traumas were "as bad" as other people's I think it's a subtle shaming. Our traumas weren't validated or the reality of it all was forcefully repressed by our abuser, so we had nowhere to direct our anger safely so we turned it on ourselves. We use shame on ourselves the same way our abusers used shame on us, to control us. The beautiful thing is, we're adults now, and we don't have to treat ourselves like that anymore. We can kill that inner critic through being compassionate toward ourselves. I'm basically just echoing Pete Walker's words here.

Elsewhere I read about what some other types of anger are, and it was really eye opening. Combined with the anger/shame statement above my relationships are starting to make sense.

Shame: anger directed toward the self
Resentment: Anger toward someone seen as more powerful
Anger: Anger toward an equal
Contempt: Anger toward someone seen as inferior

We just keep on learning. Experience fills in the details and gives meaning to what we learn intellectually.

[Sunny_day]

Thank you, I completely agree about it being linked to gaslighting - being told over years that I'm more vulnerable, not clever enough, not able, and these being modelled in FOO by females. I love Peter Walker's books and will look up the other one, thank you for the reference.
All this has been triggered by confronting a member of FOO and being asked 'ok so what are you upset about?'- slightly different wording but the same meaning. It immediately led to me thinking 'I'm exaggerating, being too sensitive' - triggering my inner critic. Looking back I could have said 'I'm upset at you constantly undermining me eg when X or Y or Z happened and denying/ignoring abuse when it happens', in the end I just said 'if you really don't see why I am upset (after we discussed it before), there is nothing I can say to make it clearer for you'. 
Thanks for taking time to reply, this forum helps a lot.

[athene1399]

Thank you all for sharing. Your posts are very helpful. I've been struggling with my own narrative of my past vs my mom's. Up until now I've believed that I had depression for no reason. That was her narrative. I've finally made the connection that I had damn good reason to be depressed as a child. When she couldn't handle that, it got worse and then I internalized it, hating myself for being depressed when she told me I had no right to feel depressed.

I've also recently learned that guilt and shame are considered "manufactured" emotions. That means that we do not necessarily feel them in the moment, but we feel them after the event when our minds try to learn to cope. Like surivor's guilt. Some of what I felt was guilt for being upset about my childhood knowing it "wasn't as bad" as it could have been. That doesn't really matter. What matters is how I perceived it at the time. A lot of what was said/done to me made me feel like crap. The good thing is I am learning to process, be mad about things that I have a right to be mad about, letting go, and then moving on. Once you start to let go of the guilt and shame, you can start to really process what happened and learn to move forward. At least that has helped me.

Also, just because something "wasn't as bad" as something else doesn't mean we have no right to be upset about it. It was still traumatic to us. It still bothered us and led us to hate ourselves for so long (or experience shame and guilt for having feelings or needs that weren't met). We have every right to get upset, sit with that anger, and then move on. One of the hardest things for me was just to learn it's ok to be upset. And once you sit with the anger it goes away.

I'm going to check out those books you suggested, too. Once again, thank you all for sharing!

[TriedTooHard]

I forgot about how helpful Pete Walker's materials were for me many years ago.  Yesterday, I felt surprised at how I need a refresher on all of this.  I went through some of my co-dependency resources and remembered that this is like an addiction for me.  As a result, I might need to keep up with this for a long time. 

When we're brought up with an abusive parent, we become addicted to the intermittent positive rewards.   We confuse pain with excitement, and silence/calm is scary when raised in chaos. 

I don't understand why abusers go through this cycle of giving intermittent positive rewards (the good times along with the bad), but its helpful that its a known pattern and its not in our imaginations.

(credit to Kris Godinez)