Trying to find acceptance

[SonofThunder]

Absolutely, Andeza. Catch-22 says if it's forgiven, it can't be that much of a problem anyway. If it's not forgiven, then you're a bad person.

When my PD's believe I've gotten over/beyond something that they did to offend me, they believe that I'm forgiving them, when Ive made no audible/written comments or actions/reactions symbolizing 'forgiveness' other than my quietly moving on.   Sometimes my uNPDf will actually state an apology to me which is always a facade, proven so by an attempted repeat of the same offense in the not-so-distant future. 

Therefore the facade-apology or their perceived receiving of forgiveness is a 'start-over' button (video game analogy) and in black and white thinking, the past is erased.  MoGlow got neither and in MoGlows situation, it sounds as if her PDm is still game-on, and in a very creative, psychological, proactive NC-nullifying action by mother NC'ing herself.  So with the lob-back over to MoGlow, it was not a point for MoGlow but only a volley.  Interesting is that MoGlow's mother shows zero concern for the 4 month NC, but is aware and concerned only with a neutralizing revenge.  Mind game experts they are indeed.

SoT

[SonofThunder]

. Very different message from what I've always been taught - forgive and jump right back in with my clean conscience knowing where it will go if they don't choose to change. Forgiveness isn't carte blanche for more abuse, in other words. Light bulb moment!!! I'm choosing to walk away from her and more harm, finally learning that it really is okay.

MoGlow,

I agree with that, if forgiveness is meaning that i purposefully, mentally give the wrongful action to a more capable, higher power to handle.  You wrote "jump back in", followed by "choosing to walk away" so i will assume "jump back in" means mentally get my mind right back to healthy NC protection, not re-engage with mother. 

I very much appreciated the extra PD forgiveness twists by Andeza and Call Me Cordelia, which are 100% unpreventable mental twists on the PD's part, and there is no toolbox tool to prevent that thinking.  Therefore with the self-serving twists of :

1. Assumed forgiveness by target = PD reset to more abuse (by Andeza)

2. Assumed forgiveness by target reduces the severity of the wrong in the mind of the PD (by Call Me Cordelia)

3. PD's assumed un-forgiveness by target (MoGlow) = PD is still 'game-on', and continues to abuse. (In your specific case, mother NC'ing herself in the standoff as an attempted neutralizer)

Therefore no matter what, the PD abuser has a mental escape route (I win or game-on!), therefore true forgiveness by the target = silently giving the PD-offense to a higher, more capable power to handle, and getting on with protected life, is indeed an excellent boundary tool, because it is designed to control ourselves with no attempt to control another and offers ourselves full mental protection to move along. 

Imo, forgiveness is very much like a cleanup crew at the concrete boundary protective wall at a road construction project.  The worker (MoGlow) erects the concrete protective boundary (NC), and then in PD mother's recognition of the NC, she purposefully crashes into the wall in revenge, but only wrecks her own abilities.  MoGlow, who's going about her business behind the protective wall, recognizes that mother tried to distract MoGlows work, but simply calls the highly capable cleanup crew to take mother's mess away from the wall (MoGlows silent forgiveness) and the job-site is all cleaned-up again. The boundary wall is still up and strong, protecting MoGlow's ongoing work and ready for another PD attempt to get around/through the barrier. The cleanup crew is on-call 24/7.

SoT

[moglow]

SoT, you used the word "game" several times, not knowing that mommie dearest does that as well. Part of her snarling voicemails was indeed commentary about supposed games I'm playing, the silent treatment she's being given. She's (or at least was) not grasping the differences here, that me not having anything left to say isn't silent treatment or any kind of game. It's not and has never been entertaining or enjoyable to me, certainly not hearing her spiteful jeering laugh at my expense. She truly doesn't get it or see what she's done.

And those apology scenarios are spot on! I suspect mother sees apologies as weakness and assumed exactly as described. Once years ago when backed into a corner about the abuse, she spat "FINE! It HAPPENED! So WHAT?! What do you want from me???" Some remorse, some regret, an apology for how unnecessary it all was, recognition of all the damage done? "You want an apology?!! I'm SO sorry. Feel better now?!" If I had to guess, that's where her resentments of me really snowballed. I dared confront, ask for explanations, if I'd imagined it all those years. You don't do that in her world - you suck it up and try to make her rages okay, make the continued abuses okay. Always kowtowing and placating her, trying to appease the demons within.

Any confrontation or attempt to actually have the difficult conversations brought full on defense mechanisms and contempt, with the confrontee just wanting it to all stop. She'd break it off rather that actually respond then go silent for a few weeks followed by some random text or message. My response (any response) was seen as "it's okay" and the original subject wasn't revisited or resolved. It just festered. That's not what happened here. There's no mo grovel - and now she eliminated the only way she could reach me or try to force yet another confrontation of how awfully she's been treated. She's not getting that presumed apology she feels is due. I would imagine she doesn't approve at all how this game ended.

[SonofThunder]

MoGlow, a few observations on your last post.

1. You used the 'game' language in your original post with "I blocked her cell phone due to the way she treated me, now she's cut off her home phone in retaliation of sorts, throwing that ball back in my court."  I simply mirrored that tennis/volleyball game type of language because you experience it, and I also experience the 'volley' with my uPDfather.  It IS a game to them; a game they will lie and cheat to win. 

2. Hypocrisy is, imo one of the hardest things to deal with and in my experiences (i just discussed this in a different thread), Hypocrisy and Projection are joined at the hip.  You just typed:

"Part of her snarling voicemails was indeed commentary about supposed games I'm playing, the silent treatment she's being given. She's (or at least was) not grasping the differences here, that me not having anything left to say isn't silent treatment or any kind of game."

Yes, you not having anything to say isnt silent treatment, but her "throwing the ball back" by accusing and cutting off her own phone service, is imo the hypocrisy and projection of her "snarling voicemails", which in my experiences reveals her motives of her own silent treatment; her own recognition and admission that shes indeed playing the manipulation game. 

3. The IDD cycle is Idealization, Devaluation, Discard.  Your words:

" There's no mo grovel - and now she eliminated the only way she could reach me or try to force yet another confrontation of how awfully she's been treated. She's not getting that presumed apology she feels is due. I would imagine she doesn't approve at all how this game ended. "

That is how i have experienced discard with my uPDw every time we cycled.  When devaluation only led to my self-protective distance vs me asking "why, what can i do to make this better" (uggh....my caretaking past), she would then "throw the ball back" in extreme silent treatment (not silent at all) and pretending I didn't exist. 

Before coming Out of the FOG, the pressure of the discard of IDD would bring me back around and my apologies (for nothing i did wrong) and saying yes to the happy-wife high jump bar being raised higher once again, led full circle back to Idealization (start-over game button).  So, are you experiencing discard from your mother?  If  so, I want to recommend where I am today;  staying PUT in Discard, by the use of I=Indifference and never cycling again.  I have tried 'matching' the discard by mirroring what she does to me, but my PDw cant stand the taste of her own medicine, so that only led to raging devaluation while also being discarded at the same time (too much anxiety for me).  But, having a stay-put, MC attitude of indifference to anything under the IDD umbrella, is perfect.  She can love-bomb, name call, silent treatment and SoT is just MC indifferent toward it all, staying the course of moving forward with good things in my life. 

SoT

[moglow]

Her discard or no isn't my problem or a consideration, not anymore. We've both made choices and the likelihood of me changing mine are slim to nonexistent. I don't see the point.

[SonofThunder]

Her discard or no isn't my problem or a consideration, not anymore. We've both made choices and the likelihood of me changing mine are slim to nonexistent. I don't see the point.

MoGlow, was mentioning solely for further potential consideration and understanding of your own active mental focus toward her volley-actions toward your non-action, which i believed was your topic of the thread. 

Imo, 'indifference' isnt a proactive choice needing to be made by me, but rather an attempted prefab'd mindset that im spending as little mental energy as possible on my PD's proactive discard.  Since i can only control myself and I know my PD's will spend energy attempting to scramble my mind, the preplanned indifference is indeed helping me to shrug off the missiles of discard, that my PD's keep trying to shoot over my boundary walls. 

I believe you stated that you just didnt have anything to say to her vs her accusation of giving her the silent treatment, but your initial post on this thread states "choosing no contact with a parent is not an easy path".  Imo, choosing NC is surely not silent treatment, but is proactive.  Therefore, imo, indifference is a proactive mindset but for me, and rides shotgun with my proactive understanding.  So I analyze my PD's behaviors to gain full awareness of my surroundings for my advantages, but choose to mentally not give a darn, while relaxing as best possible, behind my toolbox boundary walls. 

Wishing you the best on 'finding acceptance'. 

SoT

[moglow]

I can't imagine being married and living in it every day, having a choice and yet not. All or nothing thinking is hard for me to watch even at a distance. Trying to find and embrace indifference to the dramatics?? My hat's off to you.

I struggled for years trying to find middle ground with mother or anything approaching indifference to the dramatics. Finally really grasping that doesn't even exist for her, everything really is all/nothing, good/bad, black/white with no shades of gray? It takes time, admittedly shouldn't have taken nearly this long or done so much damage. I was intent on changing something that wasn't mine, forcing a relationship that didn't exist for her. We both had visions of what it was supposed to be and neither saw the other. I didnt/don't want obligatory agreement with her and her treatment of others, she failed to see others in general. It's a very sad and narrow life view, actually a wonder that I've escaped it on any level.

[moglow]

Im jumping in here late in the game and this may sound cold, but its true for my uPDfather.  I had to think about this a lot when I heard it stated to a caller by the wonderfully blunt (and many times correct) Dr Laura Schlessinger.   

The caller kept referring to her 'parent'' and 'dad' in her story and this person's emotional attachment that dragged her into continual emotional abuse and manipulation by him.  Dr Laura asked her what makes this man a 'parent'.... a 'dad'?   There was silence on the other end of the call, so Laura continued on with what makes someone a parent and a dad, and abuse and manipulation weren't in the job description.  Therefore, she stated this man was no more her 'parent' or 'dad' than a similar-aged grumpy man who lives down the block....

So when the emotions start to boil up hot regarding my fathers actions/reactions, I relate to Dr. Laura's words and they simmer down a great deal colder. 
SoT

Just reading back over this, and thank you. I typically refer to mother as "mommie dearest" of Joan Crawford fame. The similarities are/were eerie and I noticed it many years back, read Christina Crawford's book when it came out (the book's worse than the made for tv movie, btw). I watched people stepping up in J Crawford's "defense," as if they had any clue what she was like behind closed doors, realized that's what so many others see in mine as well. People see that surface charm and may even sense an edge, but few see the flip side. It's calculated, all a big act.

I played the game far too long, bought into the "but she's your mother," first by her then by others when she moaned about how awful we all were. All the while she showed little interest or compassion, seemed hellbent on tearing us down. Even so, it's hard to put down those societal messages.

Again, thx for sharing - it does help when my brain slows down. I'm so tired of it all.

[Boat Babe]

Big hugs Mo 💖💪

[moglow]

Thx, BB. I can sure use that right about now.

[Boat Babe]

Try the Self Compassion Break. It's on the Mindful Self Compassion website. Easy, simple, very effective.

[SonofThunder]

Im jumping in here late in the game and this may sound cold, but its true for my uPDfather.  I had to think about this a lot when I heard it stated to a caller by the wonderfully blunt (and many times correct) Dr Laura Schlessinger.   

The caller kept referring to her 'parent'' and 'dad' in her story and this person's emotional attachment that dragged her into continual emotional abuse and manipulation by him.  Dr Laura asked her what makes this man a 'parent'.... a 'dad'?   There was silence on the other end of the call, so Laura continued on with what makes someone a parent and a dad, and abuse and manipulation weren't in the job description.  Therefore, she stated this man was no more her 'parent' or 'dad' than a similar-aged grumpy man who lives down the block....

So when the emotions start to boil up hot regarding my fathers actions/reactions, I relate to Dr. Laura's words and they simmer down a great deal colder. 
SoT

Just reading back over this, and thank you. I typically refer to mother as "mommie dearest" of Joan Crawford fame. The similarities are/were eerie and I noticed it many years back, read Christina Crawford's book when it came out (the book's worse than the made for tv movie, btw). I watched people stepping up in J Crawford's "defense," as if they had any clue what she was like behind closed doors, realized that's what so many others see in mine as well. People see that surface charm and may even sense an edge, but few see the flip side. It's calculated, all a big act.

I played the game far too long, bought into the "but she's your mother," first by her then by others when she moaned about how awful we all were. All the while she showed little interest or compassion, seemed hellbent on tearing us down. Even so, it's hard to put down those societal messages.

Again, thx for sharing - it does help when my brain slows down. I'm so tired of it all.

Surely!   

My now elderly (yet feisty and physically fit) PDfather is the facade personality in my lineage.  His parents were a mixed set.  My grandfather (his father) was a hero of mine.  Such a wonderful man in many-many ways, but his wife (my grandmother) was the problem, where an underdeveloped boy became my PDfather. I have done a ton of digging around the history there to discover how my father became a PDadult and then also what made my caretaker mother, the ultimate target-wife for my PDfather.  A verbally abusive and situationally manipulative match made in hell. 

Part of my coming Out of the FOG, is my 90% NC with my PDfather.  I cant 100% because i own the property (different part of the country than me) in which they live, so i have some dealings with him in relation to it. Plus, i purposefully have MC-positioned myself (using my distance and neutral non-judgmental attitude) with him to be the one family member he can now tell all his dark secrets, which helps me understand what he's doing (PD behaviors) in advance so i can keep a watchful, protective eye on my sweet non-pd mother.   If he starts turning his frustrations toward me, which can happen, i quickly end the call.  Where he lives, he is a facade-angel to the community and complete hell to my mother and brother's entire family. 

As for 'acceptance' (your thread title), the only thing i have is 100% acceptance that he is a PD and that i will expect full PD behaviors from him and will use the toolbox to protect myself and my mother in possible ways because of my location distance. 

SoT

[moglow]

Yep - my acceptance is that md is who she is, giving up any expectations of change. Her exit from my life should be a non-issue, given her historical lack of interest other than her need for drama. But I bought into it decades ago, and my exit is a frustrating process. I see how she became pd, and also her conscious efforts to maintain those behaviors come what may.

Thx for understanding, for the boost.

[moglow]

Meanderings ...

This time last year I was shoulders deep into buying my first home - we were still waiting for results of property appraisal to verify if/how much the bank would finance. I'd already had to pull a contract on a different house due to failed inspection, so this one was even more nerve wracking. What a huge event [and relief!] it was to have done it finally, yet as excited and terrified as I was by the whole process, I couldn't and didn't share any of it with md. She was too busy throwing rocks and trying to make me responsible for her lack of relationship with other. Our every contact during the last half of last year was one complaint and random explosion after another. As far as I know she still has no idea, not even that I moved in last Thanksgiving, It's a big reminder how removed she is from my life, how little involvement or interest there's been.

This has been a long time coming. Taking another deep breath, moving my heart and brain forward again ...

[Andeza]

Congrats on one year in your home, moglow! That's fantastic!

[moglow]

TY!! It kinda sucked to not be able to share it, but nah. Mine all mine - yeah I'm still a bit giddy over it at times!

[SonofThunder]

Congrats on one year in your home, moglow! That's fantastic!

  I tip my hat to you moglow!

SoT

[moglow]

It's been a big year in my house, in several ways. 😎

[Fortuna]

It is hard, for me it was grieving the relationship I had wanted with my mom, the one that occasionally showed up where we went somewhere fun, she made only helpful suggestions and complimented my efforts, my taste instead of criticizing every single gosh darn things she could, being a sour puss not matter what event I put together and always feeling like a disappointment. I chose NC due to her actions, I was done with trying to 'hash it out', telling her I wanted to be treated civilly, I just told her her actions weren't appropriate and wasn't taking it anymore and blocked her.

But in a dark little spot in my head, what I really, really wanted was for that to finally, finally be her wake up call, that she couldn't treat me like that or she'd lose me, that the idea of losing me and access to my kids might, just might, shock her into getting her act together. I held on to a bit of hope that she loved me and kids more than she liked to be mean, to be a victim, to cause drama. But on the rare occasion she tried to contact me, it was more of the same dismissive, rug sweeping, never taking any measure of responsibility for any of the things she had done. saying its because 'we don't communicate well' (Damn skippy we don't, cause she can't figure out the word 'no') Her attempts aren't the attempts of someone that loves the other person, only someone that refuses to see their part in things, refuses to be wrong, would rather die alone than be civil to the people that love her.

In the end, that's what I'm grieving. they fact she'd rather be a victim alone than even be nice to me and the kids.  It's a hard pill to swallow and each new rug sweeping technique she uses makes me remember how big it is and how it would be really nice to have a mom that loved me to share things with. But that isn't who she is, and I'm not willing to be treated the way she wants to treat me.

Know that your mom has made a choice, you can count your worth to her in the $30 a month of a landline phone, just like I could count my worth to my mother in the $10 difference in a plan ticket she tried to use as an excuse to get her way. It's sad, and worth grieving for what might have been. I'm so sorry your mom can't value you as you deserve, but choose to focus your precious time and energy on the people that show you your real worth, how priceless they see you, and know you mom is the one really missing out.

[moglow]

Update: It's six months since I spoke with md, received one brief voicemail from her two months later that announced that she was disconnecting her home phone. I'm sure she assumed I would unblock her cell phone and she could resume the one sided text "relationship" she seemed fond of, claiming to not get my responses but continuing to blast me with her bitterness. But no, so silence since then.

I mailed md a semi-generic Snoopy Christmas card and received an even more generic happy holidays card with my new address on it. So she didn't attempt until she saw that I had, not even to mailing to the post office box she had for me previously. I wasn't ready this year to not reach out at all, but it's still somewhat of a disappointment to know she merely met my gesture and not one breath more. She didn't question the address change or provide any well wishes, no indication she'd appreciate any further contact of any kind. One brother got a text from her Christmas eve, my youngest brother received a Swiss Colony cheese box [I wasn't aware Swiss Colony still existed, and it's entirely possible those cheeses have survived from way back mall-kiosk days. I think he should hang on to it intact and send it to her next year, but I digress ...]. She's taken her assumptions of us and run with them, still unable to have or build anywhere near normal relationships with any of her own children.

Mommie dearest too, is done. I'm not entirely sure if anything ever began for her where other people are concerned. I served as her whipping boy and punching bag [figuratively and literally] for over 50 years and this is where we are. This morning I realize that overall I just feel flat where she's concerned. I'm not angry, anguished, bitter or anything else really. I don't miss her, yearn to talk to her, nor [at last!] do I cringe when the phone rings.

It's a brave new world, ladies and gentlemen. Blessings to all!