Hi and .. DWI, Custody, Divorce, No Contact questions!!!

[HappyGoLucky]

Hi
I just realized earlier this year that my husband is personality disordered, without a shadow of a doubt. It has taken me a year and a half from the time I seriously considered leaving the relationship (while still hoping and trying to save it) until now. I moved out, filed for divorce, got limited visitation because of his drinking problem.  Now he got a felony DWI for driving drunk with my kids in his car. I am overwhelmed with emotion, confusion and i need help processing this. I literally have an opportunity now to go NO CONTACT with him, and to have my kids have No Contact with him. They're only 4. They don't yet know what kind of monster he is. I could protect them from that for their whole lives. Yet I'm still taking phone calls from him in jail.  And I'm in conversations with his family about his treatment plan etc. Help. Please someone help me think clearly.

[SerenityCat]

Welcome!

Do you have support for yourself? Therapist or social worker? Would Al-Anon meetings be helpful?

Can you limit or drop conversations with his family about treatment plan etc? Medium Chill might help: https://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-2/2015/12/3/medium-chill You could be busy, distantly friendly but not all that available.

You could limit phone contact with him also. Be less available.

Maybe this would give you an opportunity to think more clearly and focus first on yourself and kids.

[Penny Lane]

Hi HappyGoLucky, and welcome!

I'm sorry that your situation came to this. But, I think you are so smart for seeing the opportunity to get the best situation for your kids.

Do you have a lawyer? I highly suggest a good divorce lawyer to talk you through your options.

Here are my two guiding principles on this front, gleaned from the coparenting forum here.

1. The kids are best off if they have extremely limited contact with the PD parent.
2. The PD parent will always be their parent, and that means the healthy parent has a duty to give the kids emotional resilience skills. Even if your kids don't see their dad for their whole childhood, he could come around later in their lives and you want them to be able to handle his manipulation.

Hopefully those thoughts can help you figure out where to go next, both in terms of court and in terms of parenting.

I think you know what you need to do here. How can you do it? What would you need in order to stop taking his calls? Even something simple like a bracelet or a rubber band around your wrist that you can snap and sort of "snap" yourself into reality. Start screening ALL your calls, not just theirs, so you're not tempted to pick up. Spend lots of time and energy with your young kids to ground yourself and remember who you're doing this for.

This stuff is so hard and so heartbreaking. You can and you WILL be the strong mom that your kids need.

[HappyGoLucky]

Thank you both for responding so quickly! Yes, i have a counselor I meet with weekly. She's helped me greatly! Slowly, piece by piece, she's helped me. I have a divorce lawyer and she's aware of the DWI etc. He doesn't have my address or access to my kids from day care. I plan on sending a short breakup text and then changing my number tonight.  I am beyond nervous. But if i can maintain No Contact.... then i'll have peace. Wish me luck. Pray for me. Send me good vibes.

[HappyGoLucky]

i forgot to mention that his family posted bond. He'll be out of jail in the morning. 

[PeanutButter]

I think you are absolutely a better than good mother for doing this to protect your children from the lifetime of bad effects that would be caused by being the child of an alcoholic! Im rooting for your success in NC. 

[Penny Lane]

Good luck! I'm rooting for you too.

[hhaw]

HGL:

You have to remember that you're setting the tone for how your divorce petition will be interpreted by the courts.

If you have contact with the PD, and allow him to make requests that muddy the waters as to your intentions.... you'll lose things you won't understand until months down the road.

I think a break up text would be better served by an attorney through legal papers, and divorce petition.  Severing his control over the children, their care, and decisions around the kids is safer, and you can always allow contact IF he's made a profound change you can believe in.

Protecting your children is the priority. '

You will never likely have a better place to ask the court for protections than you have now. 

Don't feel guilty.  Go no contact.  Have your attorney speak for you, and see  your T regularly.  You can tell your children that daddy has a sickness, for surely alcoholism is a sickness.   You can hold compassion for your stbx, yourself, and your children, and speak about the PD with compassion always.  That will help you, but don't mistake it for weakness, and letting him change the game. 

If you appear to be wishy washy on the divorce... you lose a lot in court.  People doubt you, they even punish you in the courts sometimes for not sticking to a good plan.

Your PD will beg, make promises, and flip flop mood wise.... don't let that into your head.  Don't do anything he asks bc he's making promises to give you an easy divorce, or whatever.

Just do what your attorney says, keep a small group of supporters in your orbit, and lean on them when you're confused, or thinking about letting the PD have his way on anything.

You extend compassion to the PD, and try to play fair, and you bleed, IME... your kids bleed (fig.)

Treat him like a stranger who poses a threat to you and your children, and you'll get through this with less trauma, expense and time.  Don't fear a trial.  A trial is the end of this, and PDs are big on making promises, then not following through, particularly when it comes to Agreements.   The PD will say he agrees to X and Z, then refuse to sign an expensively crafted Agreement when it comes time.  Hand write out any agreement you come to, if you must, then have it filed, stamped, and get your copy.  THEN it's an Agreement with a PD, but not if you have to send attorneys back to their offices to argue about details, bc the PDs almost always refuse to sign it anyway.

You have all the cards here.  PLAY THEM to the best of your ability, bc you're the good enough parent, and you'll do what's best for the kids.

Speak about your PD with compassion.  Don't extend much, if any, IME.

Remember your PD is a monster, in your opinion.  Your children are young, vulnerable, and helpless... it's your job to do your best to protect them, no matter how it "feels."

Good luck, and circle the wagons just in case your PD employs a scorched earth policy.  Some PDs will destroy themselves in order to hurt/destroy a spouse who's leaving them.   What does your gut tell you about your stbx PD?  How far do you fear he'll go to gain your compliance?

[HappyGoLucky]

Thank you all so much for the support, the good ideas, and just for "getting it" when not many people can. He's out of jail and checked into rehab. His bail bond states he should have NO Contact with me or my kids (any witnesses, victims, complainants, etc). Of course, he's acting like he doesn't know he just signed that paper. I got a new phone number and device for regular use and I keep my old phone turned off, except when I feel I can handle all the text messages. It's been such a relief just to be out of his reach. Without him...... my life is downright boring. (that's kind of a joke, but I don't have any other drama or issues or anything to cry about or stress about ... except for him).

Ok so next steps: divorce lawyer is requesting a trial date so we can enter the final divorce petition or whatever it's called.  By law, she has to give him 45 days notice. So in 6 weeks I hope to be divorced.

I hope he stays in rehab.

Then he'll have his court date for the DWI, at which point if convicted then they'll have to go through sentencing. and hopefully, end up in jail for a while.

.. i just cannot believe all of this is happening. He is not well. Some of the things he says, I wonder if he has brain damage, or if it's intentional, or if it's something else. For example, he alludes to me and the kids being the reason for going to rehab, if we'll just not give up on him, and if i don't cheat on him, and if we just give him 30 days, he's doing all of this for us. He says he'd never do anything to hurt our kids. Um... he already did! And I moved out in May and filed for divorce then too. I've never once said I would consider going back. So where's this hopeful, magical, let's-save-our-marriage vibe come from? Is he literally insane?

I don't know what happens from here. I am very concerned for his mental state and for what he might do once he realizes he's going to jail, he's not getting unsupervised visitation with the kids.

He's asking me for help to get his car out of the impound lot. How would you respond to this, if it were you?

I have to go now.. I'm going to get my girls dressed in their tiny cute little uniforms and drive them to their cute little daycare (sorry, private pre-k) and then i'll go to work to provide for them. And my life will be about my girls and me being happy.

[SerenityCat]

HappyGoLucky, you are doing so well.  You are focused on the health and safety of yourself and your children.

If I was in your situation, if asked by husband to get his car our of impound, I would not respond. I myself would keep No Contact. If his requests happened when he was supposed not contact you, I would report that.

Is this something divorce lawyer can help with? Or is there someone else you can report this too?

[PeanutButter]

Thank you all so much for the support, the good ideas, and just for "getting it" when not many people can. He's out of jail and checked into rehab. His bail bond states he should have NO Contact with me or my kids (any witnesses, victims, complainants, etc). Of course, he's acting like he doesn't know he just signed that paper. Regardless if he admits he signed it you can let him know that you are aware of it and will not be infuenced to not follow through I got a new phone number and device for regular use and I keep my old phone turned off, except when I feel I can handle all the text messages.Thats whats important that you are in control. You decide when/if you will have contact! My H does this with my unpdMIL. He has a phone that is for her only. It's been such a relief just to be out of his reach. Without him...... my life is downright boring. (that's kind of a joke, but I don't have any other drama or issues or anything to cry about or stress about ... except for him).
Ok so next steps: divorce lawyer is requesting a trial date so we can enter the final divorce petition or whatever it's called.  By law, she has to give him 45 days notice. So in 6 weeks I hope to be divorced.
I hope he stays in rehab. Hopefully he will but do not stake anything on this. IME Repeated and incompleted stints in rehab are to be expected IME with addiction.
Then he'll have his court date for the DWI, at which point if convicted then they'll have to go through sentencing. and hopefully, end up in jail for a while. Yes maybe this will avail him to more treatment therapies which could help him too. But more importantly IMO this will give you worry free no contact time.
.. i just cannot believe all of this is happening. He is not well. Some of the things he says, I wonder if he has brain damage, or if it's intentional, or if it's something else. For example, he alludes to me and the kids being the reason for going to rehab, if we'll just not give up on him, and if i don't cheat on him, and if we just give him 30 days, he's doing all of this for us. He says he'd never do anything to hurt our kids. Um... he already did! And I moved out in May and filed for divorce then too. I've never once said I would consider going back. So where's this hopeful, magical, let's-save-our-marriage vibe come from? Is he literally insane? My unpdxH use to be this way. It seemed like once he made up his mind he wanted to get back together it was a done deal. I think he thought it was solely up to him whether we were going to be together because of course I was always waiting patiently for him to come back to me. 
I don't know what happens from here. I am very concerned for his mental state and for what he might do once he realizes he's going to jail, he's not getting unsupervised visitation with the kids.
He's asking me for help to get his car out of the impound lot. How would you respond to this, if it were you? If I decided to respond, I would tell him that it is not possible for me to help him. I would tell him that I did not have the time or the money to do this. I might even say that I am surprised he even asked considering 'our non relationship status'
I have to go now.. I'm going to get my girls dressed in their tiny cute little uniforms and drive them to their cute little daycare (sorry, private pre-k) and then i'll go to work to provide for them. And my life will be about my girls and me being happy.How absolutely lovely (the picture in my mind from your description) you and your girls are making this new life which you all deserve and so much more! I know I dont know you IRL but I am really proud of your strength and courage. IMO many of us missed out on a mom like you growing up. You are a blessing to your children IMO

[hhaw]

Thank you all so much for the support, the good ideas, and just for "getting it" when not many people can. He's out of jail and checked into rehab. His bail bond states he should have NO Contact with me or my kidsANY contact with the children should be supervised, if it happens at all.  Don't give him an inch, bc he'll take a mile, and the courts will punish you for giving in.  The courts won't believe he's a menace if you treat him like he's safe.  You lose things you can't get back when you give in to the PD's begging, IME. (any witnesses, victims, complainants, etc). Of course, he's acting like he doesn't know he just signed that paper. I got a new phone number and device for regular use and I keep my old phone turned off, except when I feel I can handle all the text messages. It's been such a relief just to be out of his reach. Without him...... my life is downright boring. (that's kind of a joke, but I don't have any other drama or issues or anything to cry about or stress about ... except for him).   Be ready for some upsetting roller coaster emotions, HGL.  You might actually FEEL bored or empty without the PD drama in your life.  Please learn to meditate and breathe yourself past it, and all the difficult emotions heading your way.

Ok so next steps: divorce lawyer is requesting a trial date so we can enter the final divorce petition or whatever it's called.  By law, she has to give him 45 days notice. So in 6 weeks I hope to be divorced.   That timeline exists ONLY bv your stbxPD screwed up, and gave you an advantage.  You can undo that advantage in an email, or one point of contact.
I'd suggest going through attorneys for ALL contact right now.

I hope he stays in rehab.   Once he realizes you aren't buying his promises, he'll get out, and try other tactic likely.  Don't bet on his remaining in rehab.  Think think think about what you believe he'll do.  What does your gut say?
Honor your intuition.  Please.

Then he'll have his court date for the DWI, at which point if convicted then they'll have to go through sentencing. and hopefully, end up in jail for a while.   Keep your head where your feet are.  Right here and now, in this moment.
You can't count on anything to go the way it should.  Not when you're divorcing a PD, IME.  Also, setting your expectations, then having them dashed, over and over, is demoralizing.  SO SO hard to get over, again and again.  Just put together a great plan, work it, DOCUMENT like crazy... all those texts from the PD now?  Document them.  Copy them.  File them so you can locate them in an instant.   Know the PD will use anything you say or do against you, so just don't give him anything at all.
With all the upheaval, maybe the kids would benefit from seeing a good child T to get them through their father's removal from their lives right now. 

.. i just cannot believe all of this is happening. He is not well. Some of the things he says, I wonder if he has brain damage, or if it's intentional, or if it's something else. For example, he alludes to me and the kids being the reason for going to rehab, if we'll just not give up on him, and if i don't cheat on him, and if we just give him 30 days, he's doing all of this for us. He says he'd never do anything to hurt our kids. Um... he already did! And I moved out in May and filed for divorce then too. I've never once said I would consider going back. So where's this hopeful, magical, let's-save-our-marriage vibe come from? Is he literally insane?

I don't know what happens from here. I am very concerned for his mental state and for what he might do once he realizes he's going to jail, he's not getting unsupervised visitation with the kids.   That's what you're addressing NOW.
You're going to button up safety valves for your children's futures.  You're going to ask for everything you need, maybe more than what you really need, and you're going to ask for it in a way that tells your Judge you're invested in helping your stbxPD be the very best father he CAN be.  You'll always speak about him with compassion, and you'll do it without expectation... you'll share facts, and allow your listeners to come to their own conclusions..... don't ever tell anyone what they must do, say, or feel.  You can be punished for that, IME.  Simply state facts, keep it simple.  Just the burger.  Don't give the bun, or the condiments.  You have an easy to understand theory of your case..... your stbx PD is dangerous, drinking and driving with the kids in the car.... he can't help himself, bc he's ill, and if he could do better, he already would have.  He can't.  Don't get bogged down sharing insane PD details of what this man has done to you in your marriage.... PARTICULARLY details you can't substantiate with evidence.  Formulate your case around your evidence.  Get all your evidence together so you can go through it, select the important pieces, and state your case.

He's asking me for help to get his car out of the impound lot. How would you respond to this, if it were you?   He shouldn't be asking you for anything, IMO.  He should be asking your attorney to ask you. 

I have to go now.. I'm going to get my girls dressed in their tiny cute little uniforms and drive them to their cute little daycare (sorry, private pre-k) and then i'll go to work to provide for them. And my life will be about my girls and me being happy.

Your PD will have wild mood swings, up and down, nice to scary, upsetting your sleep, maybe threatening you.
Please hold his feet to the fire, and report every threat, every time he fails to comply with Orders, every time he touches you or the kids or contacts you through other people when he's not supposed to.  Every time you let him in, he'll believe in his heart he can gain your compliance, and he'll escalate.  He might escalate anyway, but your job is to send the message... this marriage is over, he can't beg, and gain your compliance... he can't make promises and change your mind.  The court will punish you for sending those messages.  Don't lose this opportunity to divorce with economy of motion, finances, and trauma.  You'll regret being kind to he PD if it costs you things you can't live without, IME.

[Andeza]

I'm always amazed when I hear about people that knowingly endanger their children...

I get the feeling that deep down you still want to help him somehow, but I just want to add, because I don't have a lot of experience to draw on in this case, that sometimes the best way to help someone is to let them carry the consequences of their actions. Like leaving the car in impound. Not like he can drive it right now anyway.

Wishing you the best outcome possible.