Out of the FOG

Coping with Personality Disorders => Chosen Relationships => Topic started by: square on October 09, 2021, 02:44:53 PM

Title: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: square on October 09, 2021, 02:44:53 PM
H has serious sleep issues, sleeps all day and stays up past dawn. Alarm doesn't wake him. Takes no responsibility, shows no concern.

I'm supposed to stop enabling him, stop taking responsibility. But how can I just let him not pick up DD from school, let her have a panic attack, and I don't even know how it would get resolved. It's not like he'd just be 5 or 10 or 30 minutes late. He'd wake up at 7:30pm and not even think about it.

How can I just let him sleep through his shift? If he loses his job, who will suffer the consequences? All three of us. And who will be blamed? Me, bigtime. BIG TIME. I will have been the most childish, manipulative, narcissistic, evil, sociopathic, conniving wife ever in the history of humankind. Which I already am but this would just prove it all.

Up until recently he was mostly struggling to wake up and I only had to "rescue" him, I dunno, maybe a third of the time. But lately it's 100%.

And his attitude infuriates me. No concept of what is happening, just totally taking it all for granted. Never a thank you, never a whoops. Just "oh, is it time?" No reaction when he looks at the clock and sees he has only 10 minutes to shower and get ready. Just informs me he didn't have the time to take his dog out. So I have to do it. Again. Though the dog is 100 pounds and too strong for me to handle and I'm vision impaired.

What do I do?
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: Poison Ivy on October 09, 2021, 03:21:34 PM
I'm sorry this is happening, and I know the solution(s) won't be easy.

But one thing: Is there anyone other than your husband who will think this? "I will have been the most childish, manipulative, narcissistic, evil, sociopathic, conniving wife ever in the history of humankind." And why does it matter what he thinks at this point?
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: square on October 09, 2021, 03:32:54 PM
I... don't know.

But I don't feel ok stopping waking himup without informing him first. I feel like it would be wrong to pull the rug out without warming, and that self doubt would just destroy me.

But how do I shift the burden onto DD, leaving her at school with her having a panic attack and me just sitting there replying to her panicked texts saying, oh, I guess your father just didn't wale up, hope he does in the next few hours? That just cannot happen.

I feel more likely to "let" him lose his job. That will be a disaster but I can't "let" him not pick up DD.
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: Poison Ivy on October 09, 2021, 03:36:56 PM
You're definitely between a rock and a hard place, square. But if you do take action, for example, by not waking him up, you will not be a bad person! Really.
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: square on October 09, 2021, 04:06:07 PM
There's cognitive dissonance for ya. It's the reason I'm ANGRY.

It's all his responsibility and absolutely none of mine that he can't get his own ass awake loooooooooooooooooong after everybody else manages to get up. NOT MY FAULT. NIT MY RESPONSIBILITY.

It's ABNORMAL that he sleeps all day. And not a little bit "he's a night owl." AB FUCKING NORMAL. Like, SHOCKINGLY SO.

And it's ABNORMAL for a grown ass adult to expect a spouse to keep an eye on the time and majke sure he's up but not TOO early, and to dance around weird statements like "is it time for me to get up?" I DON'T FUCKING KNOW WHAT TIME YOU PLANNED TO GET UP.

What kind of answer was he expecting? No, I just came in here FOR NO REASON. We don't even TALK but I thought I'd just wander into your practically locked door and enjoy the squalor in your room and stare at you and you just happened to wake up right then.

So I know. But, man, when someone is absolutely convinced of your malicious evil, it's hard not to keep secind guessing a little bit. Especially since I would hear FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE about it. I feel like I need a clean conscience to throw that heavy of a weight off.

He sincerely, in his deepest hear believes he is doing nothing wrong. No-thing. The only problem, as he frequenty points out, is that I have absolutely ZERO EMPATHY.

So why would he object to a divorce? It would be a relief to divorce an evil narcissistic sociopath.

I just can't make the numbers work. How can I start over on $1390/month and zero prospects for the future? I can't even imagine having the ability to look at apartments. I see so poorly I can't even purchase things in a store anymore - can't see the items.


Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: notrightinthehead on October 10, 2021, 01:14:39 AM
No wonder you are angry and rightly so. I would be furious too. Your situations sounds pretty dire and it might look like there is no way out. With my NPDh I would have suspected that he did it on purpose, to show me my dependency on him.
With your DD I would definitely and furiously look for another solution to become independent on him. It's really bad for kids to be left at school when everybody else is gone.  I have no idea what you could do, maybe the school can help, maybe there is some aftercare available somewhere, maybe you could organize a lift for her,  maybe you could move closer to school so that she can walk home.  I would make this my number 1 priority and not stop before I have achieved independence from his mood or sleep patterns in that aspect of my life. 
After that you can inform him, if you must, that you no longer will wake him. If that is what you want and feel you must do. You could also just do it.
Do not give up! Use your anger and the energy that gives you to find a solution. Anything you can do to be more independent from him might be an improvement in your life.
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: square on October 10, 2021, 10:30:08 AM
DD just got her learner's permit. She'll have her license in spring and I'm sure H will let her take the car to school though there is potential for conflict - if she or another student scratches the car he probably win't take it well, though as with everything it depends on his Almighty Mood that day. (He could be quite understanding). And we'll buy her a car in summer, so this issue will last another 6-8 months and that's that.

Work, though, that one is stickier.

He is not doing this on purpose though he certainly could be TRYING HARDER.

Naturally, last night, after I posted, he texted from work thanking me for helping him. They always know when to throw a crumb, don't they.

I keep holding on for DD getting her license, plus her own car will help even more. We both feel like we could be so free then. Of course I would still be depending on her, sigh. I'd rather not, but she seems to want similar things as I do.

After that, I dunno. I just keep wishing H would just go away but that will never happen. I will have to make ugly choices, basically gnaw my arm off to escape the trap. There are no options that I see where I escape without losing a lot, and I see zero prospects for regaining anything at all.
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: square on October 18, 2021, 02:09:00 PM
I'm considering confronting him about this issue.

It's tough because I'm afraid to even gently mention something much less confront him on anything, he is in the darkest pit of the year (seasonal cycle), and it will all be for nothing. He does whatever he wants. He'll be better for a week and then slack off.

Still. I have two things really grating on me on this issue.

One is the obvious. I'm not responsible for waking His Majesty. I neither want to do it nor be seen as responsible for it.

The other is that his reactions just baffle and infuriate me. He's late to pick up DD... again. I wake him up. He says "am I supposed to get DD?"

I don't understand any aspect of this question. I reply, "well, I don't know. What arrangements did you guys make?"

I can't put my finger on what his reactions are. There's never any concern. Never any urgency. Never "crap, I overslept again!"

Most of all, there is no responsibility. Why is he asking me questions about whether he is supposed to pick up DD? It's like if I asked him if my report is due today at work. It has nothing to do with me.

When I wake him there is this attitude of... what are you doing here? Why are you bothering me?

It's infuriating because the attitude should be the exact opposite - gratitude and guilt.

There's no point.
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: square on October 18, 2021, 02:54:00 PM
Ugh, there are no boundaries I can enforce here.

Let's say I inform him I will no longer be waking him up to pick up DD.

On the days he does not get up, DD will be having a panic attack.

Furthermore, he may sleep many hours past school.

The upshot is that he and DD both will blame me. The feeling is that I know it's hard for him. Therefore I am automatically responsible.

Btw, things that are hard or impossible for me, like driving, do not have their responsibility transferred to H. He may drive but I am still responsible for it all, and I owe him an unpayable debt for every grocery shop and doctor's visit, all of which are solely my responsibility.

Anyway, there's nothing to be done. I wish I could at least figure out how to make him feel anything other than completely imperious about it. Like if I exploded at him every time he made his dumb comments, so he felt compelled to stop making them.

But it won't matter to him, he will just be angry and I assume anger is a comfortable and positive emotion for him. If he is angry, then he has done nothing wrong. He can judge his crazy wife and not think at all about his own actions. His anger means he has be wronged, he is a victim, and that's a very nice feeling to him.

If it were just work, I'd be willing to let him lose his job. If he gets fired and does not get another job within one month I'd just have to divorce him I guess. I wouldn't be able to afford to stay married, as simple as that. Of course I can't afford divorce either but it's cheaper than a freeloader.

But DD, I guess I'm going to have to eat a crap sandwich with a smile every weekday for the rest of the school year.
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: losingmyself on October 18, 2021, 04:47:12 PM
Square, I just wonder if you can arrange a ride for DD, either from a friend's parent, or bus, or other public transit.
As if you were doing this all alone, as it seems you are.  I can't imagine the frustration of having another human there in your house, who knows his responsibilities, knows your limitations, and still refuses to help.
So, you let him sleep, and figure something out. When he wakes up and realizes that DD is there, also he missed supper, etc, your response is "Yeah, I took care of it"  Maybe it's a little comfort knowing that at least for now, he's paying some bills, otherwise, he's not even there. Could it be practice for a time when you don't even live with him?
I think it's control, and he likes to know everyone had a tough time because of his actions, or inaction. If you let him see that life isn't impossible without him, he'll 'wake up'
I know he won't change, I have long ago learned not to count on that, but maybe there will be some small satisfaction knowing you took a little bit of power away from him.
Good luck to you and your DD
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: Poison Ivy on October 18, 2021, 05:01:49 PM
 :yeahthat:
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: square on October 18, 2021, 05:09:03 PM
Thanks for your reply.

If he wike up and DD was there, he would not even notice. If it crossed his mind he would just assume other arrangements were made and there was no problem. He doesn't eat with us so missing dinner is standard.

A friend's mom takes her to school in the morning and was bringing her home but DD asked to switch to her dad bringing her home - I think because the mom might have sometimes run an errand before nringing her home and DD just wanted to go straight home.

I do not feel okay asking this woman to take on H's parental responsibilities. The arrangement was made directly between DD and her, nothing to do with me or H.

Another thing that infuriates me. The friends get together on Sundays. H drives DD to and fro. He absolutely fumes about having to do "all the driving." I ask him how so? He only does Sundays. At the time this woman was doing all the school driving plus all get-togethers other than Sundays, about two additional days a week. This woman drives DD to the hairdresser AND PAYS FOR IT because hairdressing has been an issue for years.

H says school doesn't count because it's not that far out of the way. We are 1.5 miles out of her way - each way, then twice a day. 6 miles a day. 30 a week. Would I ever hear the end of it if he were driving 6 miles a day out of his way five days a week? I usually say he's BPDish but maybe he's a full on narcissist.

I'm sorry I'm so ranty, I'm at the end of my rope. It's not just this, thigs have just been piling up.

DD refuses the bus. Says it triggers her anxiety. In other cases I'd say she just has to deal but why does everyone else have to pay for H?

And, there's that implication there - that he's "helping" me. Would people think I was "helping" him if I picked DD up from school? It's very interestimg, isn't it?
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: square on October 18, 2021, 06:02:08 PM
Scientists use a number of markers to distinguish the BPD from the non-BPD of the species. One common tell is the "u ok?" text sent from work when the BPD senses its prey might be having a feeling other than total contentment.
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: notrightinthehead on October 19, 2021, 01:32:44 AM
Sounds like you have several options for your daughter's problem. The kind lady, the bus, the husband. I tend to be solutions oriented and to me it seems that your daughter is capable of sorting herself out. If she had a lift that picked her up reliably and she chose to cancel that and switch to her father, maybe she wants to experience what it is like to be picked up by her father. I would respect that. She is nearly 18 you write, so maybe it is time for her to experience that decisions have consequences. If there is a bus and she does not want to take it because of anxieties, maybe it is time to face her anxieties. Sounds to me a bit like you are in a situation where your loved ones, daughter, husband, make decisions about their lives and when they don't like the outcome they blame you or expect you to sort them out. I would take a step back and only take responsibility for the decisions I make.
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: square on October 19, 2021, 08:04:59 AM
Interesting, thank you.

Isn't deciding not to wake H something I need to take responsibility for though?

If I told DD, look, I'm not waking your father anymore, so if you're stuck at school don't come crying to me. She would arrange with the friend's mom for a ride (never the bus). And tell the mom "my mom refuses to wake my dad to pick me up from school anymore so can you do it?" And the friend's mom will say "well, that's reasonable, clearly the responsibility falls to me in that case."

How is it possible that there is not one way for the consequences and responsibility to fall to H? How is that physically possible?

DD is taking a sick day today. Therefore I don't need to wake H. Will report back when he wakes up and whether he has any concern over DD if he wakes up "late."

Thing is, if he wakes up late and actually has any feeling of stress over it, his laissez faire attitude will be reinforced when he finds out she stayed home. He will feel like "oh, the wife will wake me if needed, I'm not going to worry about it anymore" (as if he had at all).
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: square on October 19, 2021, 10:51:43 AM
Turns out he had an appointment this morning. He got his own self up - magic! So he knows DD is not at school and will sleep to 7:30pm without a single care.
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: hhaw on October 19, 2021, 02:39:40 PM
Square:

I can't help with controlling your PD, but I do want to share some newly learned,  healthy ways of interacting with my 21 and 19yo daughters I'm glad aI learned.

I've begin releasing outcome and my need to control things....(read that as protect/insulate/save) my daughter's from pain, failure and anxiety.

They're super capable, btw.  I wouldn't know that if I didn't get myself out of their way, which has been difficult, bc I didn't realize I neeeeded them to be OK for ME to be ok. 

I honestly felt that.... believed it... consciously and unconsciously.  This has been a journey in noticing what I'm doing, saying, feeling and asking myself why.....then getting very curious about the answers.....just noticing what comes up.  Sitting still.

It's easier to drop judgment if I replace it with curiosity, btw and banishing judgment helps me see what's beyond strong emotions.....which is my pattern of reactivity.  Reactivity narrows choice, ime.

If I resist or catch the reactivity....I open possibility to responsiveness, which means I have a choice to avoid knee jerk worry worry worry, fix it, savior mode, ime.

So.... I wrote all that to say this:

Stepping back, gaining emotional distance, setting up healthy boundaries in my life with everyone, including my daughter's, has freed me up to let the girls adult in a healthy way.  They respond shockingly well to it.

It's freed me up to know I believe in them and to express that to them instead of fixing/ protecting/ and problem solving for them.

It's been a magic balm to our relationships, how they see themselves and their belief in themselves.

It's not always perfect, but it's new and healthy and about everyone having space to notice and handle what's theirs.

Even if you're saving your H from losing his job....you can choose what you'll do around the dog, DD getting herself home from school, etc.

You have options.

Set boundaries around H keeping a job and remaining married,
or not.

H walking the dog or finding a proper home for the dear animal,
or not.

Allowing DD to resolve her ride home problem.....discuss her options honestly, express confidence she'll figure it out, let her....
or not.

She'll be driving soon.  She's 17yo and CAN learn to calm herself.  Perhaps a good trauma informed Therapist would be helpful to show her how to recognize and reduce anxiety for herself and the rest of her life.

You can't control your H. You can accept and make peace with that,
or not.

You can only control yourself and what you choose. 

Choosing serenity....getting your nose off your PD's character defects is a choice.

Good luck,

Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: square on October 19, 2021, 04:03:38 PM
Just a clarification - she's newly 16 and just got her learner's permit. Not an adult yet.

I will think about maybe discussing that dad may not be reliable for pickup and see if she has a backup plan she can live with. Not sure how that can work, though, since her friend's mom will be gone before she knows if her dad is coming, plus the bus will be gone as well.
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: Poison Ivy on October 19, 2021, 04:18:09 PM
There should always be backup plans for transportation.
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: square on October 19, 2021, 04:49:02 PM
Years ago I once took a taxi to pick her up from 7th grade. Very stressful due to my disabilities. I'm vision and hearing impaired. H was unable that time due to real reasons, not because he was snoozing.

So there's backup plans for emergencies - taxi or ask someone to scrap their afternoon plans to help. Not realistic for "H couldn't be bothered" a few times a week. And they all place significant stress on other people, and none on H.

The reality is that me waking up H every day and tolerating his childish games or brain damaged behavior (honestly not sure which is driving him asking me every day why I'm waking him up) is the only reasonable solution, short of H being an adult.

I just wish I could transfer the burden to him somehow.

Maybe I should just absolutely lose it on him every day. Make it incredibly stressful for him to ask me these childish questions. After a week or a month maybe he would learn not to do that? I'd still have to wake him up but maybe he'll stop giving me that look like he's utterly baffled why I'm bothering him?
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: Poison Ivy on October 19, 2021, 04:59:44 PM
I know you know this: The primary goal is for your daughter to have a reliable way to get home. IMO, everything else is secondary. I think you can fulfill your responsibilities in this situation by talking to your daughter and helping her, if necessary, come up with a solution that involves someone more reliable than her father.
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: square on October 19, 2021, 05:12:07 PM
Okay, I'l talk to her next week. (No privacy this week).
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: Poison Ivy on October 19, 2021, 05:22:36 PM
Good luck. My ex often was and is unreliable, and this behavior resulted not only in me feeling angry at him but also in me feeling sad for our children.  These situations are very challenging.
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: square on October 19, 2021, 05:52:43 PM
I'm aNgRy lol.

Prolly hard to tell, though  ;)
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: Boat Babe on October 20, 2021, 04:20:14 AM
Did you mention a bus? Surely that is the easiest solution. I may have misunderstood.
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: losingmyself on October 20, 2021, 08:16:16 AM
Square, in my home, me 'losing it' with H would provide him with the reasons to tell everyone that I'm crazy, and how I yell at him every day. It's just fuel for the fire. Using MC is the way to go, in my relationship.
Instead, the fear of people finding out that H is 'too lazy' to get up and help out is worse in his opinion. He always wants to look like the good guy.
He used to tell me this story about his X, how one time she left the dishes in the sink until they got moldy. I am positive that the rest of that story is that he told her, one too many times that she never ever did the dishes, when in fact, she did them regularly.  This is an example of how he wanted everyone to know how lazy she was. And this is what I think of when I think about giving him 'fuel'
I  don't think he'd change his ways if you reacted that way..y
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: square on October 20, 2021, 10:13:14 AM
Exactly the same on the dishes here! Verbatim! I "never do them"... despite doing 90-95%!

H is a hermit type and has no connections to people other than vvvvvvvvvvlc with mom and sis. He neither thinks nor cares about his image. His sloth is on display for all to see.

However, you are right that he will use it against me, just between the two of us.

OTOH I don't have anything to lose anyway. I'm already all the names he can call me.

He can and will use 15 year old examples, or completely make them up out of thin air.

I'm tired of walking on eggshells. It does no good. I've turned myself into a pretzel for nothing. It's his turn to tiptoe around me.

I've stuffed my every feeling and need down for so long, and still been belittled and humiliated for them. Most of the time I'm numb but then it erupts inside me because I can't resolve or even acknowledge it. It can't be processed or go anywhere. And irl on the outside it's just :)
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: square on October 20, 2021, 01:30:20 PM
I JUST HAD AN IDEA.

What if... I continue to wake H... but only when it's LATE?

So he is 5 minutes late. He has to take the consequences of an upset DD. But it's not ridiculous like leaving her there and ignoring her texts while the sun goes down, it's just five minutes.

I don't think he'd be able to pin it solidly on me, either. Not saying another PD couldn't, but I think in his worldview he'd have to admit he blew it - though he'd probably still snipe at me a bit.

BY GOLLY I THINK THIS IS THE SOLUTION.

Also if DD can't tolerate it, she'd have to discuss with Dad directly. If I talked to her, she'd just say "Mom says she won't get you up anymore" and I'd be blamed by both. This way, it would be "DAD STOP BEING LATE" and it would be between them.

:cheer: :cheer: :cheer:
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: losingmyself on October 21, 2021, 08:45:19 AM
Good luck with this idea. I hope it works out well for  you. I'll be curious to see your progress
Take care of you!!
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: Justanotherlostgirl on October 22, 2021, 08:37:38 AM
Square, I'm so sorry you're experiencing this. My stbx is also very unreliable, especially about picking up our child from school. It is so maddening when the behavior hurts children involved.

I know it's not in the toolbox and it's so passive aggressive, but I would be in there every day with a giant pot banging and jumping about. Gotta get out that frustration somehow 🤣

(Don't do this 😅)
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: square on October 22, 2021, 09:31:58 AM
I could do that all I wanted, actually :)
Wouldn't wake him up.

His super psychic powers have kicked in and he sensed I wasn't totally delighted about this issue and has been getting up in time. Will have to wait to implement the new plan. Will let y'all know how it goes when he slacks off again.
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: square on October 25, 2021, 01:54:03 PM
So my new strategy is that even if I continue to be a safety net for him - that safety net will have a lot of sag and maybe a couple of holes.

That way if he falls off, it's not a cushy landing but at least somewhat of a nerve wracking experience.

He has snapped back up to picking up DD without me waking him, for now. But he did have a day he got confused and thought it was his day off of work. Usually DD asks for a ride to a friend's around noon on Sundays, his day off. He then goes back to bed and sleeps till 7:30pm ir so. This weekend there were plans on Saturday instead. It seems he then assumed it was Sunday because of the request - which honestly seems concerning to me but he thinks it's just ADHD.

At a time that he would have to panic to make it to work on time/just a few minutes late, I asked HIM if he needed to be up, proactively placing the onus on him to answer ME rather than him asking me some asinine questions.

He answered no. Knowing this was almost certainly untrue, I accepted the answer and moved to leave. I had woken him, if he missed work it was all on him.

As I was closing the door, he suddenly asked what day it was. I said Saturday and left.

He got up and followed me, in a panic. Spent several minutes kind of fighting this information - if it was Saturday, why did DD need a ride? Well, they had plans. For several minutes he was more interested in fighting reality than anything else. I refused to get drawn into it emotionally. I didn't care if he was late. Didn't care if he decided not to accept that it was Saturday. Did not try to redirect him or suggest he needed to get going. Refused to be anxious about the situation. Refused to tey to problem solve or offer to help.

He finally got ready in a whirlwind and made it to work.

I think him having to shoulder the panic alone will keep him more on his toes and is good for both of us. I'm still a safety net but it will be a much scarier fall now.
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: losingmyself on October 25, 2021, 04:08:23 PM
 :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :
Awesome!
I love the idea of him fighting reality. He can't blame the day on you, so there was nothing left to do but get ready and go to work. You handled that beautifully, in my opinion.
I think you'll find that the safety net that you provide will get more and more holes in it, as you become more accustomed to it.
Good for you
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: square on October 25, 2021, 04:23:10 PM
Thanks!

Seems like "fighting reality" is a fundamental trait of PD.
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: Gettintired76 on October 25, 2021, 11:42:37 PM
That's exactly it fighting reality, they want the world to think they are there to most absolutely stable person on the planet, so they firmly convince themselves that it's the other person who is ill, who is the abuser, whatever their flavor of the day is. Then they gaslight the hell out of the other until they to are convinced.
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: square on November 13, 2021, 10:55:52 AM
Just an update.

Operation Saggy Safety Net continues to work for me. Notice my goal isn't necessarily his perfection in waking up but just a situation where the stress is mostly on him (granted not entirely).

H continued to do better waking up for a while but then one day he didn't. That day I genuinely lost track of time. DD texted and asked where Dad was. Whoops. I woke him up saying blandly that DD was waiting for him. He followed me into my room yelling at me for not waling him. Because that was the priority, right? I blandly said we could figure out whose fault it was after he got DD, which granted isn't the perfect MC response but I don't want to be perfect. He gave a few parting shots and left. He didn't bring it up again.

A week or two later I woke him up late - the saggy safety net. He asked me what time it was. I told him, and left, figuring he'd jump. But five minutes later, when DD was actually waiting for him, he had not gotten up yet. I went back and asked calmly if DD had another ride from school arranged. He got defensive and said he forgot, jumped up and left.

I said nothing at all about it but honestly have to wonder about dementia or other brain damage. He picks up DD every day. But that day he just thought I woke him up for no reason, I guess. When I do not ever do that, ever. But who knows, maybe it's not that unusual.
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: 1footouttadefog on November 14, 2021, 08:48:14 AM
Unplug the internet router at midnight.  Haha
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: square on November 14, 2021, 10:12:48 AM
Believe me, I've thought about it.

Obviously I'd never get away with it.
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: Jumping Juniper on December 11, 2021, 07:48:27 AM
Just a question here. Does DD understand the situation and have your back or does she side with your husband that it is your responsibility to be a human alarm clock?
I think the saggy net is a really good idea. PD's often use "plausible deniability" when gaslighting people and I guess this is a taste of his own medicine.
I can't help but thinking this dynamic is exacerbated by DD's response too. Maybe you need to be a bit saggy with her too if she is close to adulthood.
Maybe both of them want to be infantilised?
Obviously if she is a young child that is not possible (being a saggy net) but if she is close to adulthood she can be preparing herself for adulthood.

It just sounds as if you have two purposes 1) a human alarm clock 2) a human taxi firm

I know that PDs don't treat people as people but as objects so it is really easy with them thinking you are an object. In this case an alarm clock and taxi firm respectively.

I am concerned that the DD is involved with "mobbing" you but if I have got that wrong then I apologise.

Sometimes PD's recruit not PD's around them and that is how we get flying monkeys and people with fleas. Just wondered if you are being mobbed, made responsible and blamed by both of them here? Again sorry if I am way off the mark here.

I know DD is just a child but sometimes even children can learn toxic traits from a PD. I have a friend who gets bullied by her four year old grand daughter because she sees her mother do it too. Children have to mirror somebody and also sometimes they have to blame too.

Hope things are improving for you now.
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: square on December 11, 2021, 09:09:48 AM
DD does understand the situation. As for having my back, well, it should be the other way around. Not going to have her take fire on my behalf.

DD isn't aligning with H, just trying to get her needs met. She can't really count on her dad 100% so she counts on me. It would take a full adult to really seperate the responsibilities - because by then she would be responsible for herself, and being let down by Dad will be inconvenient and disappointing but not critical.

Also, to be fair, H is the taxi service, not me.
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: Jumping Juniper on December 11, 2021, 01:27:33 PM
Thanks for the clarification. Of course. Having you back was a clumsy thing to say I guess what I really should have asked does she know the truth... Yes a child should come first absolutely.

I would be tempted on bypassing the H for the lifts even if for just a little while and find another solution. If he is happy to find himself doing even less than that is a real tell.

I've noticed that some PDs use the whole not turning up or being constant unreliable as a way of bypassing responsibility.

Do you think he has narcolepsy or some sleep issue or just evading?

There is a saying I like "you can't wake someone up when they are pretending to be asleep".
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: Jumping Juniper on December 11, 2021, 01:54:01 PM
I noticed on an ealier post you said he had no problem waking up on his own for an appointment. That means this is 100% manipulation and avoidance.
I take it the appointment was for him? So he is amazingly able to know exactly when to get up for his appointment but not for his daughters sake? Right so that quote I said on the last comment is on the money.. He's pretending to be asleep.
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: Jumping Juniper on December 11, 2021, 02:01:55 PM
Quote from: square on October 19, 2021, 10:51:43 AM
Turns out he had an appointment this morning. He got his own self up - magic!
.

Magic indeed! Very selective magic though, only works when he needs to get up for his own reasons.
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: square on December 11, 2021, 02:08:17 PM
He has narcolepsy. Some really serious sleep issues.

I've not felt comfortable making other people responsible for my husband's responsibilities. It's one thing for someone to help me out because I'm disabked and I really appreciate it and will try in some way to pay it back. But another for someone to help my husband avoid his responsibility, whereas he won't be appreciative, not even notice that someone went out of their way for him. And in fact probably still feeling like he got screwed. And all over something he could do his own damn self.

Right now it's working to be the saggy net. DD gets picked up, and even if he barks at me for "making" him late I just remind myself that he is feeling discomfort, otherwise he wouldn't be trying to shift it on to me. That helps be to observe, not absorb.

He was mostly getting himself up again but lately I had been waking him up to use his new SAD light. I wanted to give it a good shot for the SAD light to work - but I'm done.

His mood really improved noticably, but now he is going to bed later and later. It's insane. I think it's close to 9am now. I give up. It's not going to work for him to go to bed at 9am and get up at 2pm to use the light. 5 hours of sleep when he needs 8. I don't even understand how he thinks that's fine. The mood is still ok but he is back to being completely checked out, running on no sleep. I'm sorry to say ths but it's like he's absolutely brain damaged. Completely clueless. Just "I don't know why I feel so tired all the time" and go to bed at 9am without a single thought.

I can't make him be sane.
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: Andeza on December 11, 2021, 11:14:49 PM
Pardon I may have missed it somewhere, but when he stays up that late/early what is he even doing? That kind of lack of self-awareness to me flashes the addiction warning lights. Like he's been consumed by whatever it is he is doing when he stays up so late that night turns back into day. I've know hardcore videogame addicts that did the same thing. One nearly flunked out of college even.
Title: Re: He’s stopped making any effort to wake up
Post by: square on December 12, 2021, 06:07:44 AM
He's using the computer. Some times he is working on his biz, sometimes just watching videos or reading stuff. He feels a great need to "unwind."

He has always had an extremely poor sense of time and doesn't keep track. He goes to bed when he just can't stay awake anymore, instead of keeping track of time like most people do.

He has ADHD and is a hyperfocuser.

And yeah, addiction is a factor for him, dunno if it's related to this issue, maybe. He was dependent on alcohol but quit 7 months ago. Switched to smoking instead, ugh.

Anyway, there's nothing I can do about it.