Update: the cat is out of the bag

[CinnamonBark]

Hi All:

The last time I posted here, the situation was that I had left my Narcissistic father on his own and moved away after 3 years of abuse living with him. He was starting to lose his mind, but this past summer he really went insane. In July, I went to visit him at one of his properties for the week 4th of July, and he was in such a manic state that he couldn't relax and wasn't taking care of himself (not drinking enough water, going out in direct sun instead of staying in home with A/C, driving really erratically). That week he made a family friend drive him to the ER 3 times because he was convinced he was having a heart attack, but all tests came back completely normal. It was over that trip that I realized I will have to go VLC for good going forward, and so that is what I did, until the end of August.

At the end of August he really went insane, he was frantically calling everyone in his address book harassing them and saying the craziest things (even the dentist called me about it!) and kept frequently going to the ER after not taking care of himself. I ignored him the whole time and family friends eventually stopped answering the phone. At the end of August, the hospital admitted him to the psych ward and that is where he has stayed. He is worse than I've ever known him to be: in complete narcissistic collapse- delusional and refusing to shower or eat anything that isn't pureed and spoon fed to him. He is also refusing to pay any bills, and is in an incredible amount of debt. I have been dragged back in to deal with all this because he refused to appoint a POA, so I will have to get involved and help one get appointed (it will be a family friend) and try with his family members to sell one of the properties which has become an issue.

The doctors and nurses and even the social workers are at a loss as to how to help him-they've told me its a personality issue and not a real mental health disorder, which I don't agree with (isn't NPD in the DSM?), but his social worker told me that she thinks my assessment of Narcissistic Collapse is accurate. None of the meds or therapies they have there have had any effect, and as a last resort they are doing an intensive course of ECT treatment. Has anyone else here had an elderly parent with NPD undergo ECT? if so, did it help them become more compliant/cooperative?

 In 3 weeks the hospital will be discharging him and I am honestly afraid for that time because he is threatening to harm himself already if he's on his own. His sister has agreed to come and spend a week or two with him and help appoint the POA/sell the house but I am kind of terrified of him starving himself to death or harming himself- I will feel very guilty. I wasted literally 20 years staying in his home, missing out on real life (friends, college, etc) to appease him which worked for a while but he is acting like he has nothing to live for if he cant terrorize me or anyone else around him. I've tried to speak with him on the phone a couple times, suggest fun things he could get into like the YMCA with other elderly people but he's decided he is ready to die.

 Any advice here would be appreciated, and thank you all for reading this. Just typing this out is helping me process what has happened. I myself am only 26 and am back in therapy to help me deal with the complicated feelings I have been having about this. He is my Abuser, not my dad and honestly him undergoing shock treatment feels kind of good, because I am hoping this will 'kill' some of the evil in his brain and stop him from being able to scheme or set up dramatic situations.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Wow, this all sounds so incredibly hard. I'm so sorry you are going through this. Amazing that the threats of self-harm are already there if her doesn't get the companionship he feels entitled to.

I only have experience with an elderly person going through ECT for severe depression, not narcissistic collapse. I think it's overall a controversial therapy. But I don't think there's much chance of it frying out the evil scheming abilities, or changing him in any fundamental way. I wonder if the comment that NPD is not a "real mental health disorder" is a reference to how near impossible it is to treat.

I'm so glad that YOU are receiving therapy. 26 years old you still have your whole life ahead of you to get out from under your father's fearful shadow.

[SaintBlackSheep]

Cinnamon, regardless of what happens to him, your story is just beginning. Please do what you can to release all the guilt you hold over his wellbeing. He is an adult. He is supposed to be able to take care of himself, and when he can't, there are resources available that don't include you giving up any more of your life OR your sanity to take care of him like he is a child and you are the parent. I understand the guilt you feel, I really do, but as an outsider just reading this, I can tell you that he is reaping the chaos he has sown. He is experiencing karma, plain and simple. He is experiencing the outcomes of his own lifetime of poor choices and poor treatment of others. He is NOT suffering from something you did or failed to do to/for him. YOU are in no way responsible for him or his wellbeing. You never were. If that were true, he'd already be happy and normal a long time ago when you lived with him. You know this deep down, like I do, but we all need to print it on our walls instead of "live, laugh, love," I swear!

[bloomie]

CinnamonBark - the strength and resilience woven in your words, your ability to articulate the difficulty and strife of your father's life and current condition is powerful to read.

Meds, therapies, interventions can only go so far in helping someone who does not want to be helped. I hope there have been other diagnostic tests to look for an organic reason for this extreme downturn. That is what the professionals are for, though. Your father is getting care you could never offer him and it seems like he is in the best place for him right now.

The crux of this seems to be getting real clear on what your responsibilities are in all of this. You are 100% responsible for you. Your growth, eduction, moral and spiritual development and character, managing your money and your relationships, building a good and beautiful life for yourself, and hardest of all... healing from the difficulties of having grown up in a home with a mentally ill father. That is enough. More than enough for one young, precious life. In doing that faithfully you honor yourself and you honor your father. Let no one tell you otherwise!

You are wise to gain assistance from a family friend to oversee the property and financial stuff and to let the professionals figure out what is best for your father going forward. If your aunt is willing, let her step in and see how things go with your father if/when he is released to home. Maintain your life and the sacred space you have created around you that has brought you peace and new hope for your future as best you can no matter what goes on.

And keep coming back as you are able and let us know how you are!! 

[Cat of the Canals]

The doctors and nurses and even the social workers are at a loss as to how to help him-they've told me its a personality issue and not a real mental health disorder, which I don't agree with (isn't NPD in the DSM?)

I wonder if what they mean is that because it's likely a PD, the traditional methods of treating mental health disorders (meds, therapy, etc.) are unlikely to work. Because you are correct, NPD is absolutely in the DSM. Having worked on a psych ward years ago, I do recall the staff being much more comfortable treating "traditional" mental illness: schizophrenia, bipolar, schizoaffective. The patients who came in with PDs were more difficult to treat, because there were rarely "simple" pharmaceutical answers the way there often was with schizophrenia, for example.

My grandmother did ECT for years. Her official technical diagnosis was bipolar disorder, but I have strong suspicions she had undiagnosed borderline personality disorder. Of course, she may have had both. In any case, she was quite happy with the ECT. I remember my mom being pretty dubious about it, but afterward admitting that "it seemed to be working."

[Boat Babe]

CinnamonBark - the strength and resilience woven in your words, your ability to articulate the difficulty and strife of your father's life and current condition is powerful to read.

Meds, therapies, interventions can only go so far in helping someone who does not want to be helped. I hope there have been other diagnostic tests to look for an organic reason for this extreme downturn. That is what the professionals are for, though. Your father is getting care you could never offer him and it seems like he is in the best place for him right now.

The crux of this seems to be getting real clear on what your responsibilities are in all of this. You are 100% responsible for you. Your growth, eduction, moral and spiritual development and character, managing your money and your relationships, building a good and beautiful life for yourself, and hardest of all... healing from the difficulties of having grown up in a home with a mentally ill father. That is enough. More than enough for one young, precious life. In doing that faithfully you honor yourself and you honor your father. Let no one tell you otherwise!

You are wise to gain assistance from a family friend to oversee the property and financial stuff and to let the professionals figure out what is best for your father going forward. If your aunt is willing, let her step in and see how things go with your father if/when he is released to home. Maintain your life and the sacred space you have created around you that has brought you peace and new hope for your future as best you can no matter what goes on.

And keep coming back as you are able and let us know how you are!! 

[CinnamonBark]

Wow, this all sounds so incredibly hard. I'm so sorry you are going through this. Amazing that the threats of self-harm are already there if her doesn't get the companionship he feels entitled to.

You know, thank you for pointing that out, it really says it all doesn't it. It's like a spoiled 5 year old- "if mommy doesn't pick me up from school I'm gonna raise hell!" 

[CinnamonBark]

Thank you all for your support. Seeing your motivating words has really helped me in the past week. It's such a strange situation to be in, but I am managing to hold my own boundaries firm, because I got 2 negative diagnoses last week for my own physical health.

I have not visited him in the hospital and two social workers have quit from dealing with him as well- even they are overwhelmed. I have gone over to his apt to sort bills ect, but I told his family to come and deal with him when he is discharged. They haven't seen him since 2017 so are going to get a very rude awakening- and they will be staying with him in his apt since they refuse to go to a hotel like I advised them to. I wonder how they will like him wandering around all deranged in the middle of the night because that had become a habit even before I left.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Hold on to that bit of data: Even the professionals are quitting this situation! 

Yes, his family is going to have to face the consequences of their choices here. I suggest you be prepared for hoovering from them. After Dad is discharged, you will be turning off your phone, leaving the state, busy with work, whatever you have to do. You are checking out and are not available to rescue anybody or even listen to how terrible it is.

You are doing so well with all of this. Even with good boundaries it's sure to be emotionally draining. Please take such good care of your own health!