Trust

[all4peace]

I have a very simple question. If you have had a significant breech of trust in your relationship with your PD parent, has trust ever been restored?

To my bones, in every part of me--mind, body, soul--I do not trust my mother. It doesn't matter what she says. It doesn't matter what she does. I absolutely do not trust her. I've been in T for more than 2 years now. I've worked hard and nonstop. I've healed so much, changed so many viewpoints, learned new ways of being in the world, lost anxiety, gained calm, stopped being reactive instead of responsive.

And still. I do not trust her.

Do you think it's possible to be wrong? Do you think childhood wounds can lead us to mistrust parents who are actually trustworthy, or have become trustworthy? Or do you think we can safely trust ourselves to know who to trust and who not to?

Sometimes I think I'm just being unfair, or haven't healed enough.

[WomanInterrupted]

You wrote:

If you have had a significant breech of trust in your relationship with your PD parent, has trust ever been restored?

In my case, absolutely NOT.  Once I figured out just how much unBPD Didi and unNPD Ray would lie or twist things around, and manipulate facts to get what they wanted or to work an agenda, I did not trust either of them as far as I could throw them - which wasn't very far at all.

I didn't trust them as a child, and after I was on my own, I had little to do with them for a very long time, as they were out playing King and Queen of their own little world, but once they started ageing and having
health issues, I began to realize I *still* couldn't trust them.

It started out as a niggling feeling of, "I think I'm being played..." that grew into, "WTF!?  I'm never letting this happen again!"   

My favorite phrase about either of them is how can you tell when Didi and/or Ray is lying?

Their lips are moving. 

The restoration of trust involves two parties (or more, if involved) actually working on restoring the trust to the point it was before the problem(s) occurred - such as a cheating spouse needing to prove he's changed and won't do it again, and the spouse seeing through *word and deed* that this is actually the case.   

The wronged spouse begins to let her guard down, and hopefully the relationship can be saved.   

But our parents don't do a *thing* to prove they've changed or they're trustworthy - conversely, they prove time and time again that they're looking out for their own hides, and any damage or consequence to us *doesn't really matter.*

A mother "borrows" $500 from her adult child, knowing she had to pay it back by a certain date, or her AC won't be able to pay his/her rent - but doesn't pay it back, may even smirk about it, or shrug it off, or joke, "Well, you should have figured when you gave it to me that you'd never see it again!" - or throws in a FOG-inducing line about nobody paid her to change your diapers or clean up after you when you threw up.   

My unNPD MIL was like that, about money - if you "loaned" it to her, you never saw it again - and it was never mentioned again.  She stole money from her grandchildren by bilking their parents out of $600 that she never paid back, after she said she would - then wondered why the parents wanted to lower contact with her.   

Didi and Ray didn't want money - they just wanted ALL my time and attention focused on them and would do just about anything to get it - which is why I lowered contact and used Medium Chill.  Those two things alone made the lies even *more* apparent, when their stories would change so quickly to try to "motivate" me to action.

The only thing it did was make me distrust them even more and cut back further on contact.   

Didi lied so many times about doctors thinking she had caaaaaaaaaaancer that I didn't believe it when she really DID have terminal cancer!

Even when she was in a Hospice facility, I figured it would take a few weeks for them to figure out Didi was snowing them and bounce her.

That's how bad it got - she wasn't the Boy Who Cried Wolf, but The Waif Who Cried Cancer.

If your gut, instincts or Spidey Sense are telling you not to trust your mother, listen to them.  They're not wrong.   

Even if, at first appearance, it may *seem* like your gut is wrong - just wait for the scenario to unfold in full, and your gut will probably be saying, "Told you so."   

You're not being unfair - you're being pro-active in protecting yourself  from abuse, damage, or exploitation at the hands of somebody who has proven, over and over again, she just doesn't *care* what happens to you, as long as she gets what she wants, when she wants it.

 

[Call Me Cordelia]

Didn't you recently confront your parents in front of your T? And it went pretty  ?

Trust is earned. And when broken, it's the responsibility of the one who broke it to demonstrate change before they get it back. Never mind how much work you've done. What about your mother? Has she shown herself trustworthy? Even if that answer is maybe, no human is entitled to your trust. It's a precious gift. You're respecting yourself by being wary in my opinion. With PDs who have an inability to accept responsibility in the first place, trust is a dangerous business.

My trust has been broken too, irreparably I'm thinking. That's their stuff. I go to therapy to heal, not restore trust.

[Boat Babe]

I don't think that trust is necessary for healing. Possibly your wish (yearning?) to trust them is an unhealed part of your inner child that needed it then but no longer needs it now. Find and nuture that part of you and give yourself the trust you so badly needed then. That is the path I believe.
Part of healing is learning to trust yourself, to know you will keep yourself safe and act from a place of wisdom and compassion. At this point, you can safely inquire into the trust issues you have with your parents and find an authentic inner response that you know in your gut to be true.
I am at the stage in this journey (I'm 61)  where I understand everyone's story in my immediate FOO and am able to do lowish contact with my mother whilst remaining kind but not taking any of her shit on board. She knows this now and has actually dialled down the drama, cos she knows it gets her nowhere. Do I trust her? Dunno. Doesn't really matter anymore.
Much love to you 😁

[moglow]

I honestly don't know about restoring trust because I've never trusted my mother. I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt on a variety of levels and situations, and I honestly don't remember her living up to it. I think she faked it the best she could for as long as she was able, but inevitably her true self won out. She has been completely unapologetic when that happened, it was always someone else's fault that she failed.

When I finally opened my eyes, I noticed how many times mother said "don't tell X this came from me but ..." Or how often things I said to her came back to me in a roundabout way but slightly twisted where I looked worse and/or she looked better. Then I saw the uncontained glee when she repeated gossip or mocked others, heard her say hurtful things about them she'd said to me. And laugh about it.


I think if someone tries and shows you they can be trusted, it's different. I think you build that trust slowly and starting with small things. At the same time, those childhood wounds you speak of show us the truth. Yes we saw through the eyes of a child, but did we feel safe? Nurtured? Were WE trusted? Was there consistency? We learned from a young age that certain people couldn't be trusted. We felt it, lived it every day.

I think as we heal that instinctive feeling still rings true. While we may try harder to hold on to hope of change (they are our family after all), acceptance still comes. Healing can be as simple as seeing people for who they are and dropping all expectations or hope of change.

[illogical]

...Do you think it's possible to be wrong? Do you think childhood wounds can lead us to mistrust parents who are actually trustworthy, or have become trustworthy? Or do you think we can safely trust ourselves to know who to trust and who not to?

Sometimes I think I'm just being unfair, or haven't healed enough.

When it comes to dealing with PDs, I think the "standard" has to be higher for them to regain my trust, than it would for a "normal" individual.  My NM was a pathological liar.  When someone repeatedly lies to you, over and over and over (redundant, I know) when it becomes "a way of life" for them to lie to you and betray your trust, what about them has suddenly changed to make you think they are not going to do the same in the future?

Personality disorders are not diseases, in the sense that someone can take medication and "get better".  Sure, if a PD agreed to go to therapy and was honest with the therapist-- not likely with a Cluster B-- they might be able to manage their disorder.   But as is said frequently on this forum "I didn't cause it, I can't cure it and I can't control it."  Not very likely a Cluster B is going to repeatedly lie to their child and then when their child becomes an adult, does a 180 and suddenly becomes this caring, honest person.  More probable that history will repeat itself.

Which is why, personally, I judge or assess a PD on their behavior.  As the old adage says, talk is cheap. 

My humble advice is to look back at your journal entries on how often your parents have lied to you and betrayed your trust.  I doubt that those instances would have been confined to your childhood.  More likely it continues today and it's not going to suddenly stop happening. 

It's easy to have misgivings about breaking away, slide into the fantasy that it's somehow your fault-- this rift-- that if only you had done this or that, or if only you would do this or that, they would come around and all would be well.  But that's likely your grooming talking, that voice of your parents that keeps popping in your head saying they did nothing wrong and it's all your fault.   

[practical]

I know you have worked on your healing, but has your mother worked on changing? As far as I remember from your story you don't only have childhood wounds, she has kept adding more wounds over the years including now.

Sometimes I think I'm just being unfair, or haven't healed enough.

I think this is part of thinking you are not good enough, of self-blaming and it sounds eerily familiar. You have done so much, given your M so many chances, went to therapy with them, nothing changed on their side. Healing doesn't mean forgetting, doesn't mean making yourself vulnerable to a person who has a track record of hurting you. That you don't trust her is a sign of growth in my book, you have learned to take care of yourself, to listen to your gut, your own story.

In my case, if my mother had apologized and shown signs of change, of not repeating behaviors that let to the break in trust (triangulation, wounding with words on purpose, projection, painting people black/as villains, self-victimization, manipulation ...) I might have trusted her again over time, but she didn't. I had no reason to trust her again, just like I have none to trust F again and so stay away. It would actually have been foolish to trust her again. I did many times over and over because I wanted a mother, a father, wanted to give them another chance, not be judgmental, and I ended up with more wounds.

For me the bigger question is, how do I regain the ability to trust others, people who have done nothing to me, but I'm waiting for them to as soon as I make myself vulnerable? As I picked dysfunctional people for a long time as friends - it was what I knew and they appealed to my rescuer/fixer side - I repeated what I had experienced with my parents, now it leaves me with little trust in others and in a way in myself to make the right choices, to be able to protect myself.

[Amadahy]

Of all the things broken in me, my gut is not. I love Nmom, but will never ever ever ever trust her. I do work on trust overall with others because of what has been done to me, but I thank my stars that I love myself enough to know that with her trust is not safe.  My lack of trust in her is actually a measure of wellness and self care.

(((Gentle hugs, if wanted)))

[bloomie]

all4peace - a simple litmus test for a willingness to even consider attempting to rebuild trust with someone who has wounded me so deeply for me is to ask myself: has the person demonstrated an ability to self reflect, acknowledge and make amends for their abusive and character disturbed behaviors toward myself and others?

In my own uPD mother's case the answer was no. She was safely ensconced inside the fortress she had built around herself that protected her from catching even a glimpse of her true reflection in the faces and lives of her children. Aided and enabled by my father she proved herself incapable of forming bonds or authentic connection with anyone but my father - and that relationship was a tumultuous nightmare for many decades.

She was unsafe and unavailable for anything but a superficial relationship with her children and grandchildren and insisted, through master manipulation, a mean streak, intimidation, and a whole lotta FOG, that those superficial relationships served and flattered and honored her. Always.

No matter the show for others, the warm smile, the "onstage" persona. She was terminally character flawed and broken and left deep wounds and scars on all of her children and never, to my knowledge, expressed one single solitary regret or smidge of remorse.

It has taken me years of hard inner work, therapy, countless books, recovery work, and hours on my face praying and examining my own heart and character before God, to be able to write the truth of my experiences as my mother's daughter and to trust my perceptions and make important decisions, such as if to trust, from those conclusions.

It is a marathon dear all4peace - this coming to terms with who our mother's are for us. Keep doing your work and taking your important steps forward.

[all4peace]

I realized I didn't have a clear definition of trust:

trust
/trəst/
noun
1.
firm belief in the reliability, truth, ability, or strength of someone or something.
"relations have to be built on trust"
synonyms:   confidence, belief, faith, freedom from suspicion/doubt, sureness, certainty, certitude, assurance, conviction, credence, reliance
"a relationship built on mutual trust and respect"


What I think I actually want is to accept how much I don't trust my M without feeling like I'm being cruel or unforgiving. I've been through a long T and healing process. I know how much change can happen. I understand that she also could change. But I don't trust that she has. And I don't like feeling this sense of confusion.

I also realized today that in my and DH's families, there's Private Behavior and Public Behavior. We are now experiencing our parents' Public Behavior, which is very different from the private. It's confusing.

WI, I think your last sentence nails it. I know our parents want "good family relationships" but they don't see any relationship between their behavior and achieving this worthy goal. I can only imagine how exhausted you were by the time Didi actually did get cancer, and why you wouldn't have believed it.

CMC, the meeting was simply pointless. It wasn't angry or hostile, just totally  M played her helpless, compliant, loving waif role to the hilt, and F simply was stuck in absolute bewilderment. I absolutely love your last sentence. Thank you. I need to remember this over and over. I got therapy to heal, not to restore trust.

Boat Babe, I understand why it might seem like I long to trust them. I don't think I do. I think my inner child is freaking out that maybe my adult self will try to find trust where it shouldn't be found. I'm intrigued by your description of your relationship with your M. I think you have what I'm aiming for. A minimal level of contact that is NOT reliant on trust. Most extended family events are hosted by my parents. If I want to see the extended family (and I do), I have to develop some level of contact with my parents.

Mo, thank you! Wow, everyone's last sentences are profound! Yes, that rings very true. Being more whole could look like accepting that one's own parent is not trustworthy, and stopping feeling guilty for seeing that.

Illogical, my M is also a pathological liar. She never stops lying. As WI said, if her lips are moving she's lying. It's nonstop and nonsensical. That's a huge reason why I don't trust her. Not just because she lies, but because I think it would take profound change for someone who is a pathological liar to become healed and trustworthy. And I don't think that's happened. She lies about lying about lying.

Yeah, what M is saying is that she has "tried and tried" and we just won't let it work. That it doesn't matter what they do, we won't let them in. 

Practical, I'm so sorry for how having untrustworthy parents led you to unknowingly seek out that same dynamic in other relationships.

Confusingly, uNBPDm has apologized profusely in writing to 3 family members for things she didn't do or were so tiny as to be ridiculous, acknowledging vague "things she needs to work on" while outright denying the ACTUAL things each person has brought to her. It is an absolute mind *#$@. In our therapy session, she bald-faced lied to me and T about a very specific thing, while dismissing my very specific concerns as "not true." My very specific behaviors and incidents were simply written off by her as "not having happened." So in her mind she has humiliated herself with all these apologies to all these people, while the reality is that she has acknowledged not a single thing that she has actually done. It is so 

It's literally to this level:
Us: Mom, you're destabilizing the family with all the lying and triangulation.
Her: (sob) I'm so sorry for not making your favorite dessert 15 years ago!
Us: ???? Mom, the actual issue is a lack of trust.
Her: I've apologized and apologized, and done everything I could and you just won't forgive me! (sob) You're just so angry/controlling/unforgiving!
Us: 

Amadahy, thank you so much. It's come full circle. It began with my gut, and it will end with my gut. Maybe that's my lesson here--I've always known I couldn't trust her. Now I've worked through tons of stuff from the last decades, and what I can still count on is my gut. She is not trustworthy. That doesn't make me a bad person to not trust her. I can still be kind, and I can still have my boundaries. But I don't trust her.

It often makes me think of Green Eggs and Ham. I do not trust her, Sam I Am. Not then, not now, not in public, not in private, not with my kids, not with my husband, not alone. I do not trust her.

[all4peace]

Bloomie, thank you. It is good to be reminded this is a marathon. Acceptance, forgiveness... it doesn't just happen once, at one level.

I think a big problem for me is I don't really "do" shallow relationships. I don't really know how to. I don't see the point. I'd rather be alone than be in superficial untrusting contact with another human. While I can weigh the pros and cons in this situation, and while I can step outside of my comfort zone for those reasons, it still goes against all that comes naturally to me.

There's also the fact that our Ms will try to force us into a role that isn't true or comfortable. For me to be in contact with M, I will need to repeatedly enforce my boundaries, which are based on total mistrust of her. I just don't want the fight. And I'm unwilling to be a prop.


For all of us, I'm sorry we didn't get the moms we needed. And as women, I think maybe it cuts even deeper because it has such an impact on how we see ourselves and who we want to be as women.

[bloomie]

I think you have what I'm aiming for. A minimal level of contact that is NOT reliant on trust. Most extended family events are hosted by my parents. If I want to see the extended family (and I do), I have to develop some level of contact with my parents.

I think a big problem for me is I don't really "do" shallow relationships. I don't really know how to. I don't see the point. I'd rather be alone than be in superficial untrusting contact with another human. While I can weigh the pros and cons in this situation, and while I can step outside of my comfort zone for those reasons, it still goes against all that comes naturally to me.

I really, truly do get the tension of these two very valid and powerful truths. Connection and relationship is the core of who I am as well. That said, the love I have for my extended family was the motivator to accept what I could not change.. my mother was incapable of authentic, honest, reciprocal, consistent connection with other people, with the exception of my father.

That doesn't mean I was choosing a superficial relationship with her or ever would choose this, but I did accept this as her tacit choice and how she does relationships. This was something that was out of my control and not mine to decide. My choice was to either accept and work with the life package I had been given or let go of contact with my mother and lose other loved ones that are dear to me.

It kind of seems like we reach a crux and have to make the decision how to go forward with a parent we cannot trust in the larger context of our lives. I chose to continue to have LC, firm boundaries, and a kind and respectful relationship with her for the greater good of myself and my family. It was not an easy decision and never an easy relationship with either of my parents.

Now, that the story of our relationship has played out I know the end and I have never regretted that decision.

[practical]

I think a big problem for me is I don't really "do" shallow relationships. I don't really know how to. I don't see the point. I'd rather be alone than be in superficial untrusting contact with another human. While I can weigh the pros and cons in this situation, and while I can step outside of my comfort zone for those reasons, it still goes against all that comes naturally to me.

I get it, I'm not a big fan of shallow relationships either, but  there is an added wrinkle in this, which makes it more painful and harder to bear. Unlike a shallow relationship you might have with a work colleague, where you talk about the weather and it never gets personal, the shallow relationship with your M is very personal in the sense that is there to protect you, is all you can do, and is the expression of the damage caused and the healing you have done, the shallowness is a boundary. You are no longer enmeshed or trying to make her see sense and you also sadly cannot have the close but open relationship you might see between parents and adult children in a non-family.

Confusingly, uNBPDm has apologized profusely in writing to 3 family members for things she didn't do or were so tiny as to be ridiculous, acknowledging vague "things she needs to work on" while outright denying the ACTUAL things each person has brought to her. It is an absolute mind *#$@. In our therapy session, she bald-faced lied to me and T about a very specific thing, while dismissing my very specific concerns as "not true." My very specific behaviors and incidents were simply written off by her as "not having happened." So in her mind she has humiliated herself with all these apologies to all these people, while the reality is that she has acknowledged not a single thing that she has actually done. It is so 

It's literally to this level:
Us: Mom, you're destabilizing the family with all the lying and triangulation.
Her: (sob) I'm so sorry for not making your favorite dessert 15 years ago!
Us: ???? Mom, the actual issue is a lack of trust.
Her: I've apologized and apologized, and done everything I could and you just won't forgive me! (sob) You're just so angry/controlling/unforgiving!
Us: 

It doesn't seem like she is able (or she is unwilling) to grasp the larger picture. Those sound like the apologies of a 5 year old, including expecting to be forgiven and it all be forgotten - and if you really would hold not getting your favorite dessert against her, she would be right, than you would be the problem. So maybe focusing on something so minor s the wrong dessert is also a way of blame shifting? Or as I said, she cannot grasp the larger issue due to emotional immaturity? This is something I have grappled with my parents, it is the question of what came first, the chicken or the egg. Ultimately I just left it alone as an unanswerable riddle, and focused on what I needed to do for myself, which was boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.

What I think I actually want is to accept how much I don't trust my M without feeling like I'm being cruel or unforgiving. I've been through a long T and healing process. I know how much change can happen. I understand that she also could change. But I don't trust that she has. And I don't like feeling this sense of confusion.

You can forgive her without putting yourself in harms way again. Forgiving is different from forgetting, but has been linked together in our minds, I'm not sure why. Forgetting would make you uncaring towards yourself, cruel towards yourself, as you would open yourself up to more harm. You are also not mean or cruel to her by any moral standard by protecting yourself, how she experiences your boundaries is not something you can control, if she things you are unforgiving that doesn't make it so. I think you might actually have forgiven her already from what I have read of yours, not sure you could have gone to the therapy session with your parents with at least some level of forgiveness, you just cannot forget, and for me that is called learning from experience and self-care. As Bloomie said, if your M had changed you would know it, and I'm sure you would be the first one to welcome her, the mother you never had.

[Boat Babe]

I'm reading this thread on the train to London, welling up and looking out of the window (luckily it isn't crowded!).  Mixed emotions. Sadness for myself and you all, for all that we experienced as children. And also wonderment that here we are, strangers, sharing our stories, thoughts, findings etc in the most respectful, caring and enlightened manner.

All if us trusting each other and being trusted in turn  God, we're good!

[WheezyPenguin]

There's also the fact that our Ms will try to force us into a role that isn't true or comfortable. For me to be in contact with M, I will need to repeatedly enforce my boundaries, which are based on total mistrust of her. I just don't want the fight. And I'm unwilling to be a prop.

This is the problem for me.  I could do a shallow surface relationship, but my M tries to force it closer.  She has said in the past she Won't Be In Non-Authentic Relationships (by which she means more distant than she thinks it should be).  It would be a constant fight to maintain my boundaries.  And being a prop - that is what I am.  I've referred to my M's attitude towards holidays and special occasions as the Pageant of the Happy Family, and I'm not willing to do that anymore.

[all4peace]

Bloomie, it was a little startling to see those 2 quotes together, as they obviously don't work well together. Wanting a shallow relationship and not doing shallow relationships. You focus on the point, though, really the only point--we have what we have. Do we want to accept it for the sake of what is linked with it, or walk away?

Practical, you clarify for me why this particular relationship is different with regards to shallow. With others, shallow is what happens before we try to deepen the relationship. In our cases, shallow is after tremendous damage has been done to the relationship or all that was ever possible.

Boat babe, thanks for sharing in this thread!

WheezyPenguin, what an awkward and uncomfortable dynamic. And how painful to feel like props in the Happy Family Story.

[moglow]

A4P, I don't much do shallow either. I look at those as "grocery store" relationships, where you're polite and cordial and drive on. Lord knows there's rarely any inkling of interest from her side, and now substantially less on mine. Sometimes that's all we have, all we're going to have.

There's also the fact that our Ms will try to force us into a role that isn't true or comfortable. For me to be in contact with M, I will need to repeatedly enforce my boundaries, which are based on total mistrust of her. I just don't want the fight. And I'm unwilling to be a prop.

Very true. I don't trust mine as far as I can throw her either. She's proven over and over from the smallest betrayals to the major letdown, she's all about her response in the moment. What I (or others) need, think, or feel in that moment are totally irrelevant.

I think that's what's helped me separate and this not be as painfully personal anymore. It really isn't just *me* she treats this way - I'm just another body on her list. I've heard and seen the same patterns throughout my life, mother cycling through "friends" or favorites. She gets "it" out of her system and seemingly moves on to the next, but it's never really over for her. Mother pulls up ancient grudges and grievances at will (when she wants a mad) and justifies her behavior, but glosses over whatever specific problems you bring to her attention. She's solely focused on where she is in her internal war, doesn't recognize your issues with her - until it's convenient or justifiable for her.

I was really pretty shocked when I found the distance to sit back and really look at it all. It truly is a lifetime of severe dysfunction, and she's seemingly oblivious to her part in it. Well, until she needs to play martyr ...

But those boundaries? They really aren't the bugbears they/we think they are. We've just been taught that they don't apply to mothers. Never mind that we use boundaries all day every day in interactions with other people, never think twice about it. We NEED them, regardless of the relationship. That mother disagrees? Not really our stuff, is it? Deep down at a gut level, I think we  do know what's best for us as individuals - we're just fighting the shoulds and oughts and FOG.

[eternallystuck]

'Or how often things I said to her came back to me in a roundabout way but slightly twisted where I looked worse and/or she looked better'

Yep, I totally feel you on that one. They always have to come out looking like the saviour, the martyr, the victim.  That is one thing I have noticed that's pathological for my m- she can not tolerate any instance she is left exposed, she will find a manipulative way to frame me as the aggravater, the loonatic, the dependent, the failure, the one that doesn't let it go. For me I can't pinpoint one 'big' betrayal by my m, my lack of trust has been cemented by constant betrayals. Small & Heavy. Particularly alarming was her thirst to gaslight me after falling out with a friend who disrespected me. If I set a boundary & ended that toxic friendship she would use it as ammo against me, siding with the toxic friend, in a bid to smeer me, even having never met said friend. So she'd Try & warp my mind & groom me to take disrespect from others aswell. Which worked for a while. When I was younger it left me confused & she could feed off my self doubt/lack of experience more but not now with the certainty I have in adulthood. I have seen various attempts at her trying to work her magic on them too& get cosy to them. More alarming, is my realisation that she really does deliberately try to drive a wedge between me & my siblings. It wasn't paranoia as she constantly told me to throw me off. I see it clear as day & cant ignore it. That an m can be so narc to the point of pitting her kids against each other, is a testament to what kind of a person she is deep down.I don't regret that realisation, as it's what keeps me grounded in my boundaries & reality. A mother likeis not to be trusted, not one bit. They exploit their roles & intimacy in your life, the yearning you have to fit in & have a family & so we have to disconnect or at least distance ourselves in order to build a healthy life & avoid being coerced & controlled. 

Anything vulnerable or sensitive she knows about me is weaponised whenever she feels like it. There's no pause for thought, no consideration of the gravitas /impact of what she is doing. At the time they might show faux sympathy but they will later turn this into ammo. They're aggressors by nature, they do not know how to bond or exercise restraint.

Like moglow said, my m too is all about her 'response in the moment'. Her kneejerk diatribes & pathological need to dominate, is what prevents us from ever having a sincere relationship  or open dialogue.

I too really struggle with shallow relationships & that definitely stems from my M. I can't stand phoniness, cowardice, lying, manipulators, thieves. It's like my insides are warning me against missing the flags & repeating that again in another intimate setting. I don't think you can get a bigger betrayal than that of your M, so it's fairly natural we become more hyper vigilant & suspicious of folk. I've found learning to trust takes some time & considerable errors of judgement before you learn to find safe people again. And I think it's healthy for us to discipline ourselves & rest in solitude sometimes instead of being a slave to emotions.

I think you made a really good point about losing our expectations of hope & change. For me that has been the most mountain shifting factor in my healing process. Stop selling myself a dream, since it only hurts more. Following the carrot we dangle above our heads, is what prelongs the abuse IMO.

[blacksheep7]

Trust.  Such a key word in a relationship.
If there is no trust, there certainly can not be a healthy relationship.  It is living in Anxiety of not knowing what to expect, or in our case with PDs knowing what to expect, the lies, manipulation etc....anything but the truth or honesty for that matter.   Not having our best interest at heart but their own.
For myself, it was the facts,  actions, and the betrayal that were louder than words.  NM proved to me over and over again that I can not trust her.
I learned to trust my gut, my feelings that were normal and on track about my parents and FOO but were rejected and ridiculed.

It  certainly was a tall order to accept who they are.   

[not broken]

Anything is possible; however, NO, I do not think you are wrong.  When someone shows you who they are, believe them.  If you are asking, it means you see and have seen the patterns. I have recently learned that guilt and hope are the two things that have clouded my judgement in past, as well as now about being wrong, unfair or selfish when it comes to my parents. I see my FOO for what his behavior truly is,  covert NPD and a mother who was unavailable emotionally- as an adult I see her as having suffered a great deal of abuse and trauma in her life. Sadly, I have only learned about the guilt and hope just in the last year by seeing a T that specializes in trauma- emotional and verbal abuse by my husband who is undiagnosed NPD.  It is a difficult pill to swallow having come Out of the FOG to realize that I have made excuses for him for about twenty years; and sadly I can see that I learned the art of excuse making for others as a child while also feeling responsible for everyone's feelings while mine didn't matter. 

I think it's okay to feel resentful, angry, scared, sad, hurt, and everything in between.  I also think we need to feel it and face it so we can move it aside to pass through and find happiness for ourselves.  We will look back at it from time to time, and I think that's okay.  We just can't carry it with us on our journey forward. If we do, at some point, in some relationship, it will suck the life out of you.  If you have to choose between being in a relationship (whatever kind of relationship that is) AND NOT being your authentic self OR  being in a relationship AND being your authentic self-  CHOOSE YOU, and allow yourself be okay with your choice. Odds are the other person in the relationship is doing the same for themselves.  Which brings me back to my original thought: When someone shows you who they are, believe them.

btw- I am still working on this, and in no way do I claim to have accomplished this.  It is what I strive for and am working on every day. I  am so sorry for the pain you are experiencing and I wish you strength in trusting and being your authentic self.

I have a very simple question. If you have had a significant breech of trust in your relationship with your PD parent, has trust ever been restored?
And still. I do not trust her.
Do you think it's possible to be wrong? Do you think childhood wounds can lead us to mistrust parents who are actually trustworthy, or have become trustworthy? Or do you think we can safely trust ourselves to know who to trust and who not to?
Sometimes I think I'm just being unfair, or haven't healed enough.