When the kids realize and how hard it is

[Penny Lane]

So my younger stepkid, SD13, is the same age as when her older brother started asking a lot of questions about their mom, their parents' relationship, why are things so bad between them, etc. Now SD is kind of doing the same thing. Because she is who she is, this is much more adversarial to her brother. A lot of "you need to go easy on mom" to her dad, etc. It's been tough and we've been doing the same thing we did with SS16 - very light touch, provide (minimal) factual information, encourage her to not try to fix anything between her parents. She's been trying to insist that she wants to know what goes on between her parents.

So that brings us to the past month or so. DH and BM's relationship has gotten much less adversarial over the years (not none, but less) and they rarely have real run-ins. But they had to interact a few weeks ago and it was in front of SD. And BM went after DH and it got fairly ugly. Then the last time SD was at her mom's house, she returned really, really mad at DH about it. She was telling me how crazy he is, how her mom is a victim, on and on. I was trying to gently walk her through it, giving her context about why her dad has the boundaries he does. And I shared with her a few of the reasons that DH tries to avoid face to face interactions with BM and why we feel so uncomfortable with her at our house.

In my defense, SD WITNESSED THESE THINGS. Specifically one time she saw her mom come to our door, screaming at her dad, trying to push her way into the house. And SD saw the police come. That wasn't the only thing I told her but it was the main one, in the context of "this is the reason that your mom can't just come by our house whenever she wants."

I guess she doesn't remember or has blocked this all out, because this was all news to her and she started crying. I think I upended her worldview and her view of her mom. She has gone along thinking that her mom is just a poor struggling single mom trying to do her best (those are the words BM uses to describe herself) and DH totally shuts her out of parenting and makes things harder for no reason. Now, it turns out that there are big huge reasons that BM has never bothered to mention. SD feels lied to, she's really mad at her mom, she doesn't really know what's real. She is really, really struggling with this.

I apologized for telling her and she said she wants to know this stuff, she's glad I told her. I told her it is NOT her job to sort out who's right or not. The point of telling her wasn't to make her mad at her mom (again, I didn't think I was breaking any news. SHE WAS THERE.) I was trying to connect the dots of "when you act like this toward someone, there are consequences to that behavior." Still, she is miserable. I am as a result miserable and feeling incredibly guilty.

I think the kids eventually will need to learn the facts of how their mom behaves, to protect themselves if nothing else. But I also feel that they are too young to see this ugliness right now. I think their childhood will be better if they don't know.

But THEN I think, will their childhood be better if BM alienates them from their dad based on lies and omissions? Was SD truly happier when she was mad at her dad for something he didn't do? Or is she a little relieved to know that her perceptions of her dad are true and what her mom says about him is false?

BM has really put us in a no-win situation. She has set it up so that the kids can like either her or DH, but she's trying her hardest to make it not be both. This is terrible for them! They are made of her and of him, and I don't want them to hate someone who contributed half of themselves.

SD and I had a long talk afterward. I told her that her mom's bad actions, while they were a defining part of DH's relationship with BM, don't have to define SD's relationship with BM. BM is certainly at her worst with DH, but SD has seen a much greater part of her and more of the good things than I've seen. All of our parents have flaws, and as you grow up you see the good and the bad and hopefully incorporate the good into yourself and leave the bad with the older generation.

And then I felt like I wasn't validating SD's reasonable feelings so I said it was OK to be mad or sad or however she's feeling.

And THEN SD started asking me questions like "Why did they get divorced?" (The answer is her mom cheated on her dad and left.) I told her that's not my story to tell, but I think she's going to ask DH at some point, and that will open another whole can of worms I feel. (SS has never asked this - we have had a lot of talks about his mom and his dad, and he never even touched on it. I'm a little surprised it didn't come up until now, but I think he had enough self preservation to know that he doesn't actually want to know).

Soooooo what do we do now? How do we navigate helping this kid who is hurting? When we're sort of at the center of the issue she's hurting about. And also what to expect when a kid starts seeing their PD parent with a more objective lens? I imagine it's terrifying and also a little validating. But I really have no idea how to navigate this or what to do next. This feels like a really pivotal moment in SD's relationship with both parents, and with me, and I don't want to mess it up (further than I already have). Help!!!!!!!!!!

[Rebel13]

Hi Penny Lane! This sounds like such a difficult situation -- but I would say you have done great so far even though you are feeling bad about how the current situation played out. It sounds like you have a great relationship with your stepdaughter and she is lucky to have you!

I'm not a parent and I don't even play one on TV, but I do read the ChumpLady blog, which focuses on infidelity with a large side helping of managing relationships with the disordered. Every so often the issue arises of how to talk to kids about a parent's infidelity. ChumpLady and most of the commenters there agree that telling kids the truth in a calm, fact-based, age-appropriate way is best for them. I'm not sure what the right tone and language for a 13-year-old would be, but maybe something like, "When people get married, they agree not to have girlfriends or boyfriends. Your mom got a boyfriend and your dad didn't like that, so your parents got divorced." ChumpNation seems to think that teens and even younger kids can understand that social contract and that violating it isn't OK.

I feel sorry for your daughter to have to navigate a relationship with a manipulative and controlling parent -- I definitely know what that's like! But I also have a stepmother who once told me, "If I had a daughter I'd want her to be just like you," which was wonderful to hear, and I'm sure your stepdaughter sees and appreciates her relationship with you. She's lucky to have a good relationship with a caring mother figure at her age. I wish I had!

Good luck and best wishes to you in navigating this, and don't be too hard on yourself. You are obviously doing your best!

[bloomie]

Penny Lane - Sitting this screen hearing your heart for your family... may I just say that your self control and ability to think on your feet addressing heartbreaking realities with your dear SD leave me in awe!

Brought me to tears the tenderness and humility that you bring to one and all. Sheesh!!! So very well done!

I don't believe you are responsible for the damage here. Please rethink that. The dishonesty and misdeeds of the step mom are the issue. And yes, for your dear step kids it hurts a lot to see these truths and the consequences of their mother's choices that are echoing in all of your lives.

One way I have found to talk through tough stuff giving it a bigger context and avoid (as much as possible) directly maligning someone my children love is to talk about something like why a marriage ended or why someone is not allowed to come by the house at will is to talk through the idea of sowing and reaping... or gardening, if you will.   

We all have seed to sow. Our thoughts, attitudes, choices belong to us and we all have decisions every day what kind of soil we sow those precious seeds into. This step mom chose to, when committed to their dad, betray him and violate her vows and promises and, ultimately, his trust. The 'fruit' of that decision is the marriage was broken beyond repair. And that is hard to see and painful for everyone, but no one can go back for a redo.

The 'fruit' of that step mom lying to her daughter, misrepresenting so many situations and interactions is starting to be something this precious young woman is grappling with. In my humble view, this is how we talk through the responsibility we all have to live honestly and with integrity because there is no avoiding the harvest of our lives.

We can love and forgive others. We can better understand why they may do the things they do and why they sow the beautiful seeds that belong to them on fallow ground expecting a rich and abundant harvest  , but ultimately, your sweet girl needs the wisdom, compassion, caring voice of a woman (you) and daddy (DH) who loves her first, sacrificially, before themselves and who has sown into her life every good thing so she can flourish.

Keep talking to her and answering her questions with wisdom as you are. Keep holding space for her grief, confusion, disappointment and know that she has good soil from which to grow!

[notrightinthehead]

Penny Lane, your SD is 13 years, this was about the age when my kids began asking critical questions. They wanted explanations and formed their own opinions. I think you did really well. Telling the truth respectfully and kindly is a form of love. We all know how confusing the world view of a PD is and how easily one can get tangled up in their point of view. You are offering clarity. With that comes the freedom to decide for herself.
Just continue what you have been doing. You are doing good.

[xredshoesx]

PL I also think you did a fantastic job balancing what was age appropriate and necessary for her to know.  gentle hugs.

my stepmom was the one who helped me navigate the chaos of what really happened between my biological parents because she was along for the ride since I was between 8-9 years old but I didn't meet her until I was an adult.  tbh i'm closer to her than anyone else in my dad or mother's family...

I think it's ok to tell dear SD that you didn't want to tell her until she was ready to understand the dynamic of being married/ in a relationship and it can be a growth moment for her to understand deeper so when she picks her person she has a better chance of being in a healthy relationship.   (something I didn't get until after wasting time with an abuser)

you've got this and you are doing a fantastic job

[Call Me Cordelia]

I too think you are doing super! You are doing awesome holding onto both truth and boundaries. "Not my story to tell." So true and so on point. Most of what goes on between the biological parents is just not the child's business, although I certainly sympathize with her wanting to know and understand and maybe feel a little bit like she has some power here. But when the child has seen certain things, not allowing history to be rewritten to make bio mom the victim, sticking to known facts. I believe you are being very kind and charitable to all parties here. Especially bio mom. I think your kindness and light touch on her story in particular is going to speak volumes to SD, even if it doesn't seem obvious now. The contrast between bio mom setting up a competition and making it about herself vs. your kindness and putting your stepdaughter first is huge.

[xredshoesx]

something else I just thought of- my younger sisters are 14 months apart.  only one remembers the worst of my father's behavior when he drank to their mom and they both witnessed it as an ongoing thing. 

[Rose1]

Penny Lane, you have said the right thing. First she did witness what you said and if it's blocked out it will likely come back at some point.

The main thing is you answered truthfully and validated your SD because she must have known there was something not right for her to bring the subject up at all.


Kids need to have their feelings validated, but they also need their perceptions validated and often they are trying to cope with cognitive dissonance. Do I really remember what I think I do?
Is dad as bad as mum says he is - he doesn't seem to be? Why is she saying this stuff? Etc

It's very difficult but if you are there as you are (awesome job by the way) and she can ask you anything and know she won't be fobbed off, or told she's making up stories or whatever pd mum says, that will help her a great deal.

It will also lessen the risk of her being groomed into the golden child, and lessen the risk of parental alienation taking much hold. And hopefully she won't be in her 50s before she realises pd has irreparably changed her life like a lot of us here. You're her safe spot.

My oldest DD is now 38. She was the golden child briefly and then she was painted black. But her bpdf sadly could not control his desire to hurt and damage our relationship by quite vicious parental alienation at times.

As she got older into her young adult years she needed strategies to manage bpd because a lot of the bad behaviour was turned on her and she became the target. She went NC at 24. If I had told her that her father wasn't really like she thought, that he couldn't help it, etc and just gave her the same line her ubpd grandmother did, I think we would not have the great relationship we do now.

In recent years she has been dealing with cptsd and although issues in her own life contributed to that, her therapist feels her issues with her bpdf started the whole thing. There were a lot of issues I didn't know about at the time. But I did see her handling some really well (suicide threats etc).

As she got older her bpdf could not understand how treating her like he did me was going to ruin another relationship but that was the fruitage of what he sowed - good analogy Bloomie.

DHs children are a bit of a mixed bunch depending on how much they had to do with their pdm. One of his sons was given this advice by a family friend "it's not my place to comment on your parents relationship but I can tell you this. Look at your parents, see the one who is happier and doing what is right, and copy that one". He has somewhat done that but is still very much in golden child fog. I sometimes think that's more destructive than being the scapegoat.

Anyway, keep doing what you're doing. Oldest d was really wanting answers by the time she was 16 including medical information but every kid is different.
Being the sanity check, shoulder to cry on and sane respected person is very valuable to a child.

[atticusfinch]

I agree with everyone here. You handled the situation so beautifully, especially considering how delicate of a balance you had to strike. I often have to do the same with my kids, and it is an ongoing learning process.

It seems to me that part of what kids in these situations are feeling is a loyalty conflict. One thing I said to my biological kids when they got a stepmom was that they had my permission to love her and that doing so didn't make them disloyal to me. Sometimes I think kids in PD situations just need to be reminded that is okay to love each parent, and that loving one of them doesn't make them disloyal to the other.

(that said, they obviously need to do what it takes to feel safe at the PD parent's house, so, at least with my kids, I help them understand that they don't need to defend me to their dad or get involved, which is something the PD parent usually pressures them to do. I told them it is okay for them to keep in their heart what they feel or believe to be true, but they don't need to say it out loud to their dad, as it would just cause conflict.)

I often think about what my life would have been like if my parents had separated or divorced (pretty sure my mom is NPD), and I think I would have appreciated it if my dad had validated my perceptions of my mom's abusive behavior while also giving me permission to still love her and have the best relationship with her I could, considering her limitations. Does that make sense?

You're doing great. You've got this.