On the Ropes, Bleeding, Need Advice ASAP

[Jiminy Crickets]

So. My first post on the boards.

My situation is this, unmarried with possible uPD, we have a 13 month old baby together and are living in the same home. We have had a relationship for 5 years that has been broken by a series of break ups, threats to leave, and high conflict. Total time apart ~10-14 months during this 5 years. I am not sure why I put up with it for so long- codependent maybe? Either way we got pregnant together and voila, I was doubling down to stick it out. I went a little crazy along the way through COVID, managing a failing business I built (laid off 20 people, down to 5, negative equity now, revenues lost 75%)- developed a habit of huffing nitrous oxide, and checked out for a while. She left. We got back together. Id cleaned up my act and got my head screwed on tight again.  No other substance abuse issues during the relationship (alcohol as a college lad) Im 35, still running that business and now a Dad.

I dont know where to even begin- but right not I often feel like im losing my mind in the relationship. I dont feel like my old self- I feel fractured. She has threatened to leave so many times, having done so xmas eve actually handing me the baby and telling me "its over", to only come back 2 hours later sobbing on the backporch begging to not lose the family. AFTER threatening to call the cops and telling people i "put my hands on her" ( i did no such thing, and never have, except for the time she went screaming running hysterically through the house while pregnant- where she flopped on the bed and I grabbed her ankles trying to speak with her concerned she was going to hurt herself and the baby by running out in traffic (she has jumped out of the car in the middle of traffic before) or fall down the stairs, big mistake, ill never do it again but thats the only time i laid a finger on her) Anyways, back to now. Which is we are talking about seperating. She pulled out of marriage counsleing for reasons she has refused to tell me- I believe its becasue the therapist was calling her out on her own shit. I told her we either find some support and therapy to help us, or we seperate. She punted a decision until after this weekend training she is doing in Austin, TX this weekend.

At the core, i need to express whats going on, recieve validation, check myself if what I am experiencing is real, and if what I am wanting is real. The idea of being away from my kid 50% of the time- assuming I dont have to go through a huge court battle to get there- is a killer for me- yet I am so damn unhappy with things the way they are and am not sure if I can exist in the relationship.

So, since this is a board about committed to making it work- can anyone share how they made the decision to commit? How its going? What its been like? How have you had to alter your expectations of relationship? Life? How do you cope? Has anything gotten better? Do you just manage you, committ 100% and take whatever happens? Where do you draw a line? how do you not lose yourself in this process? How do you hold boundaries? Get your needs met? So many questions.

Additionally- a primary bottleneck for me is she is taking this stance that its unrealistic to expect to meet emotional needs in the relationship- she tells me she goes to friends, and herself never to me (not true but hey its her delusion) and that I should do the same. She keeps sending me article son interdepdence v codependence, yet I read these things and it clearly talks about the need for safety vulnerability and support in a healthy relationship. I think she is getting off on the word responsibility- as in we have to take responsibility for our emotions- which I get, i dont expect others to "SOLVE" my internal state, however at the same time, she seems to use it a a license and shield to treat me poorly and justify the distance, coldness, emotional affairs and other emotional abuse- unwilling to acknolwedge her impact to me, or hear my impact regarding her behavior. Consistently shuts me down when I discuss her behavior- telling me she only wants to hear about me. yet when I disscuss my emotions vulnerably with no mention of her- she gets angry and tells me she believes I am making it up and using it to manipulate her....to what end I do not know? Maybe feeling some remorse, or shame?

All of this from a person who wont talk to me unless an sincere apology that has space for all her impact and emotional history and stories-  for hours or days if I use the word peevish to describe her mood as I experience it, or become upset and confront when she is in the kitchen talking openly with her girlfriends about how she doesnt care about the relationship anymore and is not motivated to do anything to improve it-

I am gaslit constantly- she will tell me she did or did not say a thing minutes or seconds after it- become enraged when I want to revisist what was said- and push me away. At this point I want to put mics up all over the house to check myself- although Ive often been told I have a steel trap like mind, and have experienced a lot of conflict in the military and at home growing up with an often keen awareness when shits hitting the fan.

Anyone else experience this? What do you do? What books, podcasts and articles have been helping you the most? What shifts in myself should I consider starting with to survive this period and not lose my shit, get fleas, act out, or destroy myself or business in the process? What is your daily/weekly routine?

I am paying for everything- house, bills, nanny 3 hours/day 5 days a week, giving her cash for bills and spending money, covering groceries- comes out to about $52k year gross in total value of support (what she would have to earn to make the money to cover this nut), she will overspend by thousands and come back and demand payment- stating I am financially abusing her- she expected to have access to all the finances I earned while she was staying at home. yet we are unmarried, she breaks up with me regularly for long periods of time, has zero history of financial responsibility, and quit her job prior to birth without telling me forcing me into this breadwinner role. I am terrified of going belly up emotionally, spiritually, and financially.

On top of this- I am doing the grocery shopping and prepping the food for the week, doing my own laundry, cleaning etc. I DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH TIME< HEART OR ENERGY to endure this for much longer- i need a shift. Am considering pushing for seperation myself- or getting in touch with some higher power and comitting....

Thank you for your support in advance.

[escapingman]

Hi Jiminy and welcome!

Please reread your post, then tell me, why would you stay? It's not going to get better and there is nothing you can do to change her.

[bloomie]

Hi and welcome. You are dealing with a lot and when I think of a tiny child in the midst of what sounds pretty chaotic and unstable at times it makes offering my thoughts really easy. Something to ascribe to is to put your child first. The things you are wanting and looking for in this relationship are secondary to the most important and basic needs of your child to have, even 50% of the time, a safe, functional, sober, parent who is emotionally mature.

Here is a helpful article: https://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-2/2015/12/3/put-children-first

Looking at the relationship through that lens.. what your innocent child is hearing and experiencing without any hope of escaping or choice in the matter, may clear a lot of things up for you real quick as you determine the forward trajectory of your life.

Right now, this relationship may seem like the most consuming and urgent thing in your world. I can tell you that in time, when you burn out and get some time and distance from the labile, unsettling, toxic stew of the behaviors and patterns you describe here in your relationship and interactions with your partner you will still have a relationship with yourself and be looking yourself in the mirror facing how you have allowed your life, and the life of your child, to be shaped by this level of dysfunction. I am betting that is what will matter most to you.

A helpful read: 5 Types of People Who Can Ruin Your Life, Bill Eddy, LCSW

One of the most clarifying excercises Eddy offers us in this book is the 90% rule. Ask yourself, with some of your partner's behaviors, such as handing your baby over to you on Christmas Eve then returning in hysterics - Would 90% of people do that? Start working through all of the incidents and behaviors and ask that question. The gaslighting will start to clear, and you can recognize that possibly you are living with a high conflict person and if you are going to partner with her going forward you need to recognize and understand that and decide if that is what you want.

I love this mantra I learned when landing here at Out of the FOG: The 3 C's - You didn't cause it, your can't control it, you can't change it. The only thing we can ever control or change is simply always only ourselves.

Keep sharing and reading here. Look at the toolbox and join the conversations and as you do, it may help to understand this is a community of people who have had very similar experiences to yours - mine was in childhood as you could be describing my own mother when you describe your partner (and the dynamic between she and my dad was a nightmare for me and my sibs) - we will encourage you and we will support you as you figure out what is right and best for you. But, we will be honest with you that you are facing a tough road. We will walk it with you.

Sending wisdom and clarity to you!

[notrightinthehead]

Welcome!
In addition to the very sound advice you have been given above, i suggest you read the Toolbox, especially medium chill and non-JADE.
You mentioned Co-dependency,  there are wonderful groups where you can get support and strength, some of them have online meetings. And a book that helped me a lot: "Stop caretaking the Borderline/Narcissist" by Fjelstad. See you around on the boards.

[moglow]

I hesitate to respond at all, and can really only reiterate the advice already given.

My mother is a woman such as you describe. I was told for years "it'll get better as she ages." I call bullshit - She's now in her 80s and the only thing that's gotten better [finally] is my own insistence on stepping back and away from her chaos. No one was ever able [not sure if they really tried?] to rein her in or reason with her, as far as I know not even when she was a child. She was allowed to run roughshod over everyone in her path and she liked it that way. It was and is always her way or the highway, always someone else's fault and she was the poor victim of it all. Just ask her.

Growing up in her home was a nightmare, what I remember of it. The rages and meltdowns over every little inconvenience, miscommunication and her unspoken expectations and demands were ridiculous - and extremely volatile. None of us have bright happy memories with her. My parents divorced when I was in grade school and she remarried within the year. Nothing changed for us other than having a safe place to go/Daddy's house, where we eventually all moved.

Children have no choices other than those provided by the parents. While I understand and applaud wanting to commit to this relationship and your family, to what purpose? Unless and until your lady commits to and really digs down to change her behavior, this is who she is. Your child could be the golden child who does no wrong in her eyes [and ends up taking care of her instead of mom taking care of the child] or could be the scapegoat who does no right. Black/white, all/nothing, good/bad, may well be the world s/he grows up in and all s/he knows - and it will haunt that child. My mother played divide and conquer all our lives, with us being alternately either her best friend in the whole wide world or her worst enemy and she vilified us to everyone.

Bluntly, I truly wonder what possessed Daddy to have a family with that woman, and why she consented on any level. She was/is not remotely equipped to handle those responsibilities. The blessing now is her world has shrunken to nothing except whoever is willing to speak to her and that's severely limited because of how she's treated us all our lives. Know that our story is just one of the possibilities unless your lady choose to make some major changes.

What shifts in myself should I consider starting with to survive this period and not lose my shit, get fleas, act out, or destroy myself or business in the process?

It's not likely just "this period." I know it's beating you up, but you have to understand: it's not just you. It won't be just you. This is her life, your life, and your child's. There's a child to consider now and that child, his/her [physical, mental, emotional] safety, security and well being, HAS to come first.

[PlantFlowersNotWeeds]

A helpful read: 5 Types of People Who Can Ruin Your Life, Bill Eddy, LCSW

One of the most clarifying excercises Eddy offers us in this book is the 90% rule.

WOW - I didn't read Eddy's book, but I will now.  The 90% rules is a great tool to reframe thinking.  What I experienced in my marriage wasn't "normal" or "traditional".  It was a nightmare that somehow I thought I had to endure. 

My advice is that you seem to be questioning where you are in this relationship and where you want to be.  Keep questioning, learn about yourself, find time to be at peace with your child, you have one life - how do you want to live it? read books, use the tools, etc..
Grey Rock and Medium Chill are great tools - hard to do consistently, but it has helped me tremendously.   And, no, I'm not staying in my marriage.  I had to find my own time and way to figure it all out - it took me about 2 years.  It felt like a long time, but it was what I needed.  And again, with GR and MC - my STBX 's verbal abuse has reduced dramatically.  And when he does escalate, it has zero effect on me.

Good Luck - don't give up on yourself

[Healingslowly]

I really feel your pain because I'm in the exact same situation. I feel like I could've written the exact same post myself. I have just confronted my covert narcissist spouse and we are in couples therapy but I can tell by having confronted her about this, that she has no ability to understand That any of her actions could have consequences or that any of her actions could be considered wrong. I am the only person who could have any fault in the relationship.

We have a three year old and at this point I am waiting to see if she has the ability to be at all introspective and admit that she was wrong and take a serious look at her own NPD. Well I've heard many times at this as impossible I do know one overt narcissist very well who has done massive changes in his life. I actually just spoke to him today on the phone about what it was like to understand he is a narcissist.

So that gives me a little hope... But every interaction with my spouse takes that hope away.

I think for me, I will leave if I don't see a change is possible. I can't imagine not being able to see my daughters beautiful face every day, and the prospect makes me want to jump off a bridge. These are tough decisions. I also put a lot of weight on my own financial stability and health... But I think getting out will save your Health and without your health you can't enjoy any money you might have.

[PlantFlowersNotWeeds]

Healingslowly -

From my experience, even though my son is now 18, he's a senior in highschool, it's easier to parent without his PD father around.  As my son grew, my exchanges with him were always commented on, interrupted, belittled, etc....  his father always wanted to be the "better" parent, better at fun, at discipline, everything.  He sucked the joy out of a lot years.

Now, I can make my own path as a parent, with all of its mistakes too.  But it's mine now.

I convinced myself that I stayed in the marriage for my son.  But, I stayed because I was afraid and in the fog.   My son would have been fine, maybe even better, if I left years ago.

[Lookin 2 B Free]

Welcome to the new people!  When I first found this forum, I came to the "Committed" group to find out exactly the same thing ... Is anyone really working this out, and how?  I went back through a lot of old posts to see what I could find.

That was a while ago and what I recall is this:  One person who stopped posting had developed an okay relationship but was questioning whether the spouse was actually PD, or maybe just had some traits.  There were stories of a few of them finding some level of tolerability while using GR & MC ...  but none of those had the kind of support, companionship and intimacy most are looking for.

I found the "research" into what level of success people had and hadn't experienced to be valuable.  Maybe you'll find more than I did.

[sunshine702]

I have been in those high conflict relationship with my ex husband. I know it can feel really alone and sad and not knowing what to do.  And too embarrassing to tell anyone.  Forums like this really help to tell someone/anyone!  I really like Ester Perel videos you YouTube about relationships.  Some of her tips about communication really helped me in tough sad moments.  Also be sure to TAKE EXTRA GOOD CARE OF YOURSELF something nice for YOU (not the NItrus). Listening to cool music works for me.  Snuggling my doggie.  A strong cup of coffee and fancy burger.  Just something a treat for you.  You have to keep strong either way. 

[Cascade]

When I first found this forum, I came to the "Committed" group to find out exactly the same thing ... Is anyone really working this out, and how?  I went back through a lot of old posts to see what I could find.

I think a better name for this "committed to working on it" section should be called "committed to staying married".  Working on a marriage sounds like there is hope for a healthy marriage when for most of us this is not the case sadly.