Out of the FOG

 I just finished an excellent book that came out this year (2013), was only available in hardback, but is well worth the price. Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist, How to End the Drama and Get on With Your Life, by Margalis Fjelstad, PhD. It is published by Rowman & Littlefield Publishers, Inc.
ISBN 978-1-4422-2018-8 and ISBN 978-1-4422-2019-5 (electronic)

She paints a clear picture of the way BP/NP's view the world in a list of their 10 "basic needs and feelings." She says their feelings are absolute facts to them, are as intense as an infant's and are always someone else's fault. They assume we think like them, are anxious about everything not under their control and if we aren't constantly focused on them, they feel nonexistent. They have little or no concept of the passed or future, only the present moment is real to them.

She explains why they need a caretaker, how we got into that role, how to nurture ourselves, and ways to communicate with them that helps ease their anxiety.

Having read this book, I now understand that my uNPD has a serious mental illness and I need to let go of certain expectations. I found chapter 16 priceless- "Change-Creating Skills with the BP/NP." She explains boundary setting in a way that finally makes sense to me.

This is one I'll read again and again till it soaks in.

Thanks so much for posting the review of this book.  I immediately purchased it from Amazon and read it using the cloud reader so I wouldn't have to worry about BPDh seeing the book.  This is one of the best books I have read thus far about disordered people, what the mental illness does to the loved ones who are impacted, and how to move forward.  Excellent book!

Thanks for sharing this info about the book. After reading the following description on the web (copy and pasted below), I was extremely intrigued and bought it in hard cover to read today. I'll reply back again after reading it in its entirety in a few weeks to give my own impression of the content.

Thanks again for sharing the info headinblender, for I didn't even know this book existed and had just come out this year. It'll certainly be a good read since my FOO is infested with uBDP and NPDs. My uBDP and NPD mother and  enmeshed codependent dad are text book and not just uncomfortable to be around, but impossible to be around. There is no helping them, but I like to read what ever I can to enlighten myself and remind myself that going NC was the right choice. Maybe the book will help me navigate around some of the FOO (aka flying monkeys) that keep pestering me  :doh:

"People with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorders have a serious mental illness that primarily affects their intimate, personal, and family relationships. Often they appear to be normally functioning at work and in public interactions, and Narcissists may even be highly effective, in the short term, in some work or social situations. However, in intimate relationships, they can be emotional, aggressive, demeaning, illogical, paranoid, accusing, and controlling –in the extreme. Their ability to function normally or pleasantly can suddenly change in an instant, like flipping a switch. These negative behaviors don't happen once in a while, they happen almost continuously in their intimate relationships and most often, and especially with their Caretaker family member.

Here, Margalis Fjelstad describes how people get into a Caretaker role with a Borderline or Narcissist, and how they can get out. Caretakers give up their sense of self to become who and what the Borderline or Narcissist needs them to be. This compromises the Caretaker's self-esteem, distorts their thinking processes, and locks them into a Victim-Persecutor-Rescuer pattern with the Borderline or Narcissist. The book looks at the underlying rules and expectations in these relationships and shows Caretaker's how to move themselves out of these rigid interactions and into a healthier, more productive, and positive lifestyle – with or without the Borderline/Narcissistic partner or family member. It describes how to get out of destructive interactions with the Borderline or Narcissist and how to take new, more effective actions to focus on personal wants, needs, and life goals while allowing the Borderline or Narcissist to take care of themselves. It presents a realistic, yet compassionate, attitude toward the self-destructive nature of these relationships, and gives real life examples of how individuals have let go of their Caretaker behaviors with creative and effective solutions."

Thanks for the info.  I'm going to check out the book too.  The subject rings near and dear to my heart as I try to change behaviors in myself that enable these PD partners to set root in my life. 

Quote from: Victorious on June 26, 2013, 04:10:40 PM
...what the mental illness does to the loved ones who are impacted, and how to move forward.  Excellent book!

You are so welcome. I'm glad you found it helpful. I've been so focused on him, (as an NPD, he demands that), I didn't realize how much his behavior was affecting me! As she points out, even our breathing is impacted. I'll catch myself taking shallow breaths, (because I'm 'on guard'), and give myself permission to take massive intakes of air!

I feel like I understand him much better now, too. I'm more detached, but in a healthy way, more accepting that his illness is permanent.. part of his every thought and action.

Having that understanding is helping me focus on caring for my own needs, knowing that he can never fill them, he just doesn't have the facility to reach outside of himself. He is truly self-centered, but it his illness that makes him so.

Thank you for excellent reviews - so good that I intend to purchase A.S.AP :like:

This is a terrific book. Pretty expensive even on Kindle, but well worth it. I'm able to understand my role as caretaker and how I got here.

Someone mentioned this book in a post, and I immediately looked it up. I've just started reading it and am only about 30 pages in, but it's like the author has been taking notes on my life! I find a bit of validation and understanding in this book that I have previously only found on these forums.

I can't wait to read the part about getting out from under the caretaker role. Things have to change, and I just don't know how to make that happen. With this book, I understand a bit better why I find it so hard to make any change.

I ordered this book from the library, and by 5 pages in, decided I'm going to spend the money for my own copy. There's some things that I am chafing at/do not think apply to me, but: this is me. What a tremendously helpful book. Thank you all for the reviews & sneak peeks that convinced me to get it.

Just finished it.  I will be going back and re-reading parts. 


For the first time in my memory I feel positive and hopeful.  I will be reccomending it to anyone dealing with PDs.  Incredible read.    :thumbup:

Thanks to all for this great book recommendation! 

When I was a teenager, I told my parents I was having thoughts of hurting myself.  AT my very first session with the T chose, he insisted that my parents come in and participate.  He recognized right away that my family was uber-dysfunctional.  So we all ended up in family therapy coupled with individual sessions.   

As it turns out, that T was a bit of a kook.  He didn't believe in drugs (wish I knew then...) and treated everything as repressed anger.  "That cigarette is just you sucking in your anger!" or "When he/she does that, they're really saying FU."  In hindsight, whether his approach was right or wrong, learning to express my feelings better probably kept me killing myself. 

Nice story, but what's the point, right?  Well here is the takeaway from that regarding Dr. Fjelstad's book...  I AM PROOF THAT THE METHODS SHE DESCRIBES WORKED FOR ME ALREADY. 

After reading this book, it is now crystal clear that my mother is/was a 100% According-to-Holye's NPD.  The part about the reversed roles of children and their BP/NP parents (kids being more responsible than parents) was especially chilling.  She refers to Dr. Bowen's theory that if one member of the family changes, the other members will change by default.  27 years ago, that first T actually read to me a paragraph from that section in one of Dr. Bowen's books.  And he was dead right. 

I don't know if my mother ever changed as far as seeing herself as part of the problem.  But I definitely changed, and as a result, her behavior toward me changed.  I stopped worrying about her demands and started to do what I wanted because it was what I wanted.  I learned all her techniques (button-pushing) to start a fight (sometimes between me and my sis or dad).  I could see them coming and had myriad ways to shut it down instantly.  As a result, I learned to love to my mother from a distance (I call it "from behind the glass").  I accepted that her love would always come with conditions.  As a result, I have maintained a relationship with my mother through all these years.  Sadly, I ended up "marrying my mother." 

So, I'm excited about this book.  I know from experience that the techniques can and do work.  Now that I'm armed with the book, I can explain some of the sick rationales (rationale denotes logic and reason; maybe "irrationales" should become a word) for my SOs crazy behavior.  She covers different and and healthier ways to handle the problems.   

After reading this book, I am feeling far less hopeless about my current situation. 

I too "married my mother." I often wonder how this could happen. I got grew up, and got out of that house as fast as I could, and right into the arms of my BPD wife. Mind boggling to say the least.

I understand a lot more after this book but, it still boggles the mind.

I love this book.  I'm reading it for the second time.  IMO it's a must read for anyone who has a close relationship with a PD.

I finally finished the book and am started right back at the beginning again. I think this is a "must read" for anyone who has even the slightest caretaker tendency - regardless of the presence of a BPD or NPD in their life. I've learned so much about myself from this book. I feel like I finally see what is really going on in my life and why I have landed in similar situations in a lot of relationships.

There is a really great section that talks to what you can control and what you can't and how to better manage those things. I've been so emotionally defeated thinking that I can't control anything. I think we've all heard this many many times ("don't worry about what you can't control"), but I don't think I ever really understood the heart of it until I read this book. I'm learning to let things go that I have no control over because I understand it now. I'm also learning to create my own happiness, and how to take control of some of the things I thought I had no control over. It is so much harder said then done, but I think I finally see the light at the end of the tunnel.

There is a section that speaks to how a caretaker looks at a BPD / NPD relationship by comparing it with the different steps of grief. I realized that I was stuck and could not really ever get to the point of acceptance. Yes, there are things that I can't control, but there were some things that I was not controlling because I was paralyzed in the FOG.

For quite some time now, my life has been anxiety-filled chaos where most of my time was spent fretting over so many things, beating myself up for many different reasons, and wondering on a regular basis if I should just leave my H. Now I'm in a much calmer place where I try not to spend any effort on the things I can't control. Instead, I spend most of my effort trying to figure out what makes me happy and how to get more of that in my life. I've realized that the defeatist attitude I had before was actually putting me in the situations that I despised so much. This has become so much more than "should I leave my husband?". I'm now trying to figure out who I want to be and how I want to live. Once I get to that point, there may or may not be room for the BPD / NPD relationships in my life, but to be honest, I have bigger fish to fry right now...that part will work itself out once I know where I want to be in life for myself.

It seems a bit dramatic, but this book really has changed my perspective and my life.

Tired one--  thank you for writing your opinion on the book.  I'm going to order it today for myself.  What I get most from your post is that whatever this book has said to you, has caused you to focus life on yourself.  And that's something that I think most of us are missing on this forum.  We're so obsessed with what's wrong with "them", that we don't look at what's wrong with us.  We can't change "them", but we can change us.  That's all we have power over in this life.  Us. 

I've read so many posts on this forum, including my own, that completely focus on us examining our partner's behaviors.  We've become so codependent in this dysfunctional R/S, that we've lost focus on our own identities, dreams, goals, etc.  I'm also trying hard to get my attention refocused on myself.  And I actively and out loud say to myself often "keep your hands off other's problems".  Without being asked, I will quickly jump into solving other's dilemmas in life.  I'm trying hard now to recognize when I'm doing this so I can actively stop myself.  And if I am asked to help out with someone's problems, I need to learn how to not enmesh myself into the mess.  That's harder for me now.  How to help out, without taking over.  It's a continual learning process.

I case there is any doubt- I will add my review. Excellent book- I read it six months ago, it was the key to opening the locked door and walking through.
I have passed it on to another in need in December.

Quote from: MakingChanges on February 22, 2014, 10:59:29 AM
How to help out, without taking over.  It's a continual learning process.

I struggle so much with this one! I just started reading "I don't have to make everything all better". I'm not very far into it yet, but the author has made quite a few points around how to let other's own their own problems. I really have trouble figuring out what to say now that I'm trying not to own something that isn't mine to own. So far, it seems that the author gives some pretty good solutions to this.

Quote from: ontheroad on February 22, 2014, 11:45:58 AM
I case there is any doubt- I will add my review. Excellent book- I read it six months ago, it was the key to opening the locked door and walking through.
I have passed it on to another in need in December.

What an excellent way to put it - I do feel like I've been able to walk through that locked door. My perspective has totally changed. I even look back at some of my old posts (especially the ones where I'm clearly looking for validation) and think, "who was that person?". I love the way you put it!

The "locked door" analogy is excellent. I purchased the book a little over two months ago, and here I am now, living in my own apartment and focused on caretaking myself and not the uNPD. I've read so many self-help and relationship books over the past five years, and this was the one that really made me do something. The rest seemed to lock me into that situation, thinking I was helpless to deal with the issue.

After reading everyone's comments, I have downloaded this book from Amazon.  I've been working with a counselor who has worked with personality disorders in the past (I insisted that whoever my HMO assigned me to MUST have a good PD background and they actually delivered on this) and shared finding this website with her.  Perhaps - and hopefully - this book will complement what I'm doing in counseling.  I'll post an update in a couple of weeks. 

Spence26 - I hope this book opens doors for you like it did for the rest of us. I shared it with my T, and she said it was spot on in descriptions of how and why PD's do what they do, and ESPECIALLY in how and why caretakers do what they do. I've read a bunch, but this one made me see how to come Out of the FOG. Best wishes!

Thank you, all, for the recommendation. I have to read this book!

Okay, I've been reading this book for over a week.  I actually went and purchased a hard cover copy so I could annotate it and refer to it more easily than the downloaded version. 

Well, I thought my eyes were opened so I guess now they are bugged out... :aaauuugh:  I've actually had to stop annotating as entire pages were highlighted.  So many questions I had over the years, so much damage that kept building up that I could never figure out where it was coming from.  Well, finally the FOG is beginning to lift, I'm less mystified and the only confused person in the house is the DxNPD.  I'm nearly half way through the book (actually reread the first several chapters) and the inside of my cheeks are raw from biting back all the OMG!, OMG!, OMG!'s that I want to shout.  :jumping:  DxNPD would be shocked to know just how exposed he has become and even more so that the jig is up.  I'm actively reclaiming my life back!  You all should have seen the look on his face when I told him he would have his own checking account and would be paying the bills that have a direct effect on him (I didn't phrase it like that but he knew when I said he would be paying for Netflix and his own car payment what it meant).   :barfy: No Netflix doesn't bother me and if his car is repossessed, oh well.  Not my problem!

When the book points out how our lives are taken over living the BP/NP's life and we eventually give up ourselves and lose awareness of our own wants, needs, beliefs, etc., I began doing as the book suggests and writing down the BP/NPDs rules, etc.  That has been eye opening also.  I am also realizing that this may be a long process.  Yesterday, hub was in a rush to leave for work and was running close to being late.  My own anxiety level began climbing as I always would rush around and get his stuff organized and ready for him to head out the door.  Instead, all I had done was prepare dinner and left the rest of his work prep to him.  He stopped onto the patio for something and our new neighbors were outside.  He began talking with them and seemed to totally lose track of his rush to leave for work.  After a few minutes (he was now late), I stuck my head out and mentioned the time (I was relieving my own anxiety). 

Afterwards, when he was gone and I was reflecting on what I had done (stepping in), I realized I need to stop doing that.  But secondly, I wondered if this was part of how he gets us alienated from our neighbors.  This may sound convoluted (and most things with my NPD are), but wherever we move, within a few months, no one speaks to us.  And as new neighbors move into the neighborhood, the same thing happens, only quicker (not so many people to influence perhaps??).  I realized that what I did could be construed as controlling (and hub believes I control everything).  In the book, the authors point out that the BP/NPD see the caretaker as responsible for everything but, at the same time, they consider them controlling.  Anyway, over the years, I have learned of other ways my DxNPD hub has twisted people's opinion of me and this may be part of this mystery.  (Ex.  Hub told his coworkers I am a lesbian who wanted to date the women he was interested in and was very competitive in this so that when we would go to a work function, no one would speak to me.  Whether they believed hub's stories or not, I was persona non grata... :disappear:...and this isn't even the worst one). 

I see my counselor on Thursday and will be taking the book with me.  I have marked some pages where the author talks about things I have told my counselor that I couldn't make sense of.  Now I can. 

Will post again in a week or two. 

I think it's hard initially to decide what is caretaking and what is a kind reminder from you as his partner that he's running late.  I find that I'm at the stage now where I don't do much of anything for anyone anymore.  I swung the pendulum in the other direction.  I hope to eventually settle in the middle as I fumble through the process of not caretaking but learning how to be a healthy partner.

Quote from: MakingChanges on June 23, 2014, 02:48:48 PM
I think it's hard initially to decide what is caretaking and what is a kind reminder from you as his partner that he's running late.  I find that I'm at the stage now where I don't do much of anything for anyone anymore.

You are so right, MakingChanges.  So much time has gone into making sure DxNPD is doing what he is obligated to do, has said he would do or needs to do but would leave until I finally do it instead that figuring out what is really just mine to take care of makes my head spin.  :stars: The main thing is you are making that change.  We didn't arrive at the point we are at now all in a day...and reclaiming ourselves will take time, too.  To quote an old hair color commercial..."I'm worth it!!"  (and so are you!) :yourock:

Spence

I know we'll get ourselves stabilized eventually.  But I'm very aware that I don't volunteer for anything anymore and can't be bothered getting involved with someone else's problems.  I feel very uncaring, but that's where I am right now in my bouncing back.

Still not done with this book but am really taking my time and reading it well.  It was hard to read the section about giving up Hope, Guilt and Shame.  I wanted to run away shouting NOOO to the idea of giving up hope.  But then I realized I had already begun doing just that.  As I realize that dxNPDh is mentally ill and really cannot change (all the years of experience that have proven this to be true), giving up hope that he can or will change becomes a relief, putting down a load, a burden.  Giving up guilt seems a bit easier but giving up Shame when it has been a part of me as long as I can remember is a challenge.  To help myself in this, I have been working on letting go of ruminating (stop thinking about the PD and what was or what might be) and focusing on setting new goals.  I don't even know what many of those are yet except to exercise more so I feel better and to find a recreational group of some sort.  One way I am working on lessening Shame in my life is that I am making myself stand up straight and look up rather than walk with slouched shoulders staring at the ground.  I guess it is my own version of acting your way to right thinking.  When I walk with confidence I do feel better, but as soon as I slouch and avoid eye contact, my self-esteem plummets. 

Am so glad I found this book.  I see a therapist and between the two, I feel I am making progress.  At times, the book suggests topics I wouldn't otherwise think to broach with my T and at other times, it provides me with some insights in the PD or in myself.  Will again update when I hit another benchmark.  Spence

I think all of us here have a degree of codependency.  We all take on the broken and try to fix them.  Finally realizing that I can't make someone not have a PD, has been enlightening to me.  I can't control them or fix them like I've tried to do for so many wasted years.  The acceptance of this opens up our lives to so many choices.  Do I stay or do I go?  Can I accept this person as they are?  Am I OK to walk  the outside world alone because my PD partner is too dysregulated to be a true partner?  Or do I want to step away from it all, heal, and find a healthy partner that can be the person I want in my life?  We get one chance at life.  As far as marital vows go, I feel that if a person is mentally ill but won't seek help and actively work to make themselves a good partner to me; then the vow is already broken.  I personally have no problem stepping away if someone acts out at me.  That's not a life that I want for myself or my children.

The one negative comment I have is the suggestion she gives to use the  "I feel /I want" communication *template* with the N or BPD.

I always felt like telling my pdxh my real feelings and what I wanted to have from him backfired at me! It gave him far too much ammunition to deny and refuse me (more punishment) or sabotage- when we were still together.

She also suggest a final "Otherwise I will do xyz...as a result" Which to my Pdxh was nothing but an ultimatum and a challenge to see if I would really DO xyz. He never heard this in the spirit of open sharing and collaboration.

I realize it works with normal folks and works well, it's honest, open communication. Just never seemed to help me with Pdxh.
bonnie

Quote from: bonnieG on July 27, 2014, 12:51:57 PM
The one negative comment I have is the suggestion she gives to use the  "I feel /I want" communication *template* with the N or BPD.

She also suggest a final "Otherwise I will do xyz...as a result" Which to my Pdxh was nothing but an ultimatum and a challenge to see if I would really DO xyz. He never heard this in the spirit of open sharing and collaboration.
bonnie

Lot's of things that work on normal folks NEVER work on an NPD.  However, I have begun using the Cambridge communication model on rare occasion with some success.  The thing I find is it is necessary to keep the focus totally on my own thoughts and feelings about a situation, never mentioning the dxNPDh.  And the ultimatum needs to be simply what I am willing to do to accomplish what I want.  For example, NPD rarely will help with housework.  When I could still work, I had someone come in every two weeks to wash floors and vacuum thoroughly.  To cut costs when I couldn't work anymore, I no longer do that (I have MS). 

DxNPDh did not pick up after himself no matter how much I asked.  So I finally brought it to him that I felt physically drained just picking up every day and was finding it difficult to do the more demanding household cleaning tasks.  I said I would like us to set up a picking up schedule for each of us so I spent less time doing that and could accomplish more each day. I had to include myself in that list or he would feel picked on.  I concluded that if we couldn't do that, I was going to hire back someone to come in every couple of weeks.  And I meant that and still mean it.  We now have the schedule and no, he isn't great at following it unless I prompt him, but it has made a difference for me.   

My dxNPDh does not respond well to ultimatums or even to shared feelings probably because of the belief that others cause feelings so if I have any, then I must be blaming him.  Using this communication model on him when I had deep feelings of sadness, hurt, grief, etc., would blow up in a second.  But to accomplish something that is black and white seems to go better.   

I tried several different communication models with my exuNPD and none really worked out. I found it exhausting to have to constantly think about how I was going to respond to a statement by the PD, and since so many of his comments were based around anger I was constantly worried that I'd say the wrong thing and set him off.

In conversations with other people I never had this problem.

Quote from: Nicholas on July 27, 2014, 08:05:44 PM
In conversations with other people I never had this problem.

Bingo!   :cake:

Quote from: MakingChanges on July 27, 2014, 12:19:35 PM
I think all of us here have a degree of codependency.  We all take on the broken and try to fix them.  Finally realizing that I can't make someone not have a PD, has been enlightening to me.  I can't control them or fix them like I've tried to do for so many wasted years.  The acceptance of this opens up our lives to so many choices.  Do I stay or do I go?  Can I accept this person as they are?  Am I OK to walk  the outside world alone because my PD partner is too dysregulated to be a true partner?  Or do I want to step away from it all, heal, and find a healthy partner that can be the person I want in my life?  We get one chance at life.  As far as marital vows go, I feel that if a person is mentally ill but won't seek help and actively work to make themselves a good partner to me; then the vow is already broken.  I personally have no problem stepping away if someone acts out at me.  That's not a life that I want for myself or my children.

Very well put... Since becoming aware, I have that feeling of freedom. It can also be a little frightening to think I can really move forward to the life I want. May take some getting used to but I'm sure well worth being out of my comfort zone for a little while.

Quote from: Spence26 on July 28, 2014, 09:08:56 AM

Quote from: Nicholas on July 27, 2014, 08:05:44 PM
In conversations with other people I never had this problem.

Bingo!   :cake:

That was the difficult part. The PD was very good at convincing people of his expertise on any given subject and could seemingly quote things verbatim that he'd read decades ago and would regularly talk of his achievements or accreditations. It wasn't until I started to understand overt narcissism vs. covert narcissism that it made sense to me.

They present with high expectations of entitlement, always looking for favorable treatment, which of course interferes with all of their relationships, which they are unable to maintain satisfactorily.  They have an intense need for admiration, and work hard to seek out situations where their insatiable need can be met by others.  If, for any reason the desired admiration is not forthcoming, they will go into a rage.  They are so self-absorbed that it would rarely occur to them that others would have reciprocal needs.  Because of their need to be the "best", they behave in a haughty manner with others.  They often feel scorned or rejected, and in return they are scornful of others....

It is in the "having" that they feel powerful.  They also have a fondness for fast-tracking knowledge, so they will observe others whom they admire, then "model" that behavior, claiming it as their own, which means that a lot of the time they are frauds. They have no problem saying that they have achieved awards, (such as diplomas, degrees, accreditations etc), when if fact this is often untrue.

http://narcissisticbehavior.net/category/revealing-the-two-faces-of-narcissism-overt-and-covert/

Thank You! Thank You!! Thank You!!!  for all the reviews and posts on this book.

Downloaded it the other day and WOW! so happy I did! Halfway through it and I know I will be rereading it.

Ready to Reclaim My Life!

Nicholas - What an excellent site.  Thanks so much for sharing.  Lucky me, I have one of each, overt and covert.  I used to call them npd extrovert and introvert.  Ime overt npds are more easily "outed ", lol, as it were.  My overt npd son shows his traits and rage to others, because he is involved with so many people.  Nm mostly only tortures close family members, so casual people may not believe how toxic she is.  I have long been nc, and only discuss nm with dd, dh and on this board.  Luckily except for esf and gcbrother and family, all other extended family see her for exactly what she is.

Quote from: TurnThePage on August 07, 2014, 09:07:32 AM
Thank You! Thank You!! Thank You!!!  for all the reviews and posts on this book.

Downloaded it the other day and WOW! so happy I did! Halfway through it and I know I will be rereading it.

Ready to Reclaim My Life!

:yeahthat:

I just got it yesterday.  A great book. 

I've heard so much about this book and am interested in reading it. I'm not sure if my husband has NDP or something else. Do you think I would still find it helpful?

I can't decide to get it as an e-book or paperback. I like rereading parts and underlining passages that are meaningful to me, but I don't want my husband to find this  book either. I could probably hide it but he is snoopy sometimes.

Rainstorm,
Here are the names of some of the chapters.  Maybe this will help you decide.

Is My Partner Really a Borderline or Narcissist?
Why the Borderline/Narcissist Needs a Caretaker
What Is a Caretaker?
Emotional Distortions of Caretakers
Stages of Healing
Increasing Your Self Confidence
Anxiety-Reducing Skills with the BP/NP
Leaving or Staying

I bought the book in hardcover and threw away the dust jacket. Underneath was just a plain black book with the name on the spine.

Take care of yourself, :bighug:
hib


headinblender

Thanks for the info headinblender, it sounds like I'd probably get something good from it even if my h isn't one of those.

I know it may sound trite to say this, but this book changed my life.  I'd read a lot about NPD and BPD (my husband's diagnosis), but it really wasn't until I read "Stop Caretaking" that I truly understood what I was dealing with -- and how to save what was left of my poor, exhausted brain and heart. 

There was a while there when I had this book on my phone.  I'd look at specific sections that I had bookmarked before I went into the house at the end of the day -- when my husband used to get wound up.  The best thing I learned was that what he had WAS a serious mental illness and that this was not really anything I could do anything about.  Even though this realization led to a lot of grief at first, it was later very freeing for me.

Another vote for this great book  :like: It definitely feels as if the author has been walking in my moccasins.

My favourite part is chapter 19 Reaching out to others. As someone who is motivated by goals and milestones this chapter has inspired me to start planning my own "emotional fitness" program.

I admit, I have not read the whole book yet but I have a love/hate relationship with it. I must have ordered it through the library but couldn't figure out why I would do that as my NPDM had passed away, so I didn't feel I was "caretaking" anyone. But as I read the first few pages, I realized my husband is BPD. Hence, my hating this book. It's not fun to realize you have run away from one problem and right into another. It is a wonderful, easy to read book. I will be buying it right after I am done hating the facts it has pointed out to me.

I haven't read this book cover to cover but I have checked out the chapters that apply most to my situation and I cannot say enough good about this book and the author. Finally, things I had already learned about make much  more sense to me and I feel a lot stronger now having read this book. Check it out because it can only help.

Quote from: Buffythevampireslayer on March 26, 2015, 08:09:19 PM
I admit, I have not read the whole book yet but I have a love/hate relationship with it. I must have ordered it through the library but couldn't figure out why I would do that as my NPDM had passed away, so I didn't feel I was "caretaking" anyone. But as I read the first few pages, I realized my husband is BPD. Hence, my hating this book. It's not fun to realize you have run away from one problem and right into another. It is a wonderful, easy to read book. I will be buying it right after I am done hating the facts it has pointed out to me.

I sympathize.  I got this book as my H is dxNPD.  I discovered my violent alcoholic mother who is dead was likely BPD.  Yup, out of the oven and into the fire.  This book was so helpful in helping me to let go of my Caretaking behaviors.  I have quite a ways to go but I know what I need to be doing. 

This book really opened my eyes about my contribution to the difficult situation I am in. The bad news is: I don't really know what I want if I try to think about it. It seems so much easier for me to look out for what others want.  :stars:

It's pretty overwhelming to think about it all at one time.  I began by working on myself in the sense that I had lost track of who I was.  I didn't know my likes or dislikes anymore.  it was all about what dxNPDh liked or disliked.  A big victory for me was when I was preparing for a major vacation (the first in over 10 years) and I wanted a travel journal.  H likes all things Tokien or of that style.  I like other things.  He was with me when I picked out my journal.  I picked out one I liked after careful consideration.  He then said "oh, here is a Tolkien cover" and I almost reached for it instead.  Then I said, "oh, that would be nice for you but I'm buying this one".  He was surprised and I am sure miffed. 

Anyway, start with something small.  Maybe make a list of things you would like to change (focus on yourself).  Prioritize them in some way.  One of my goals was to rebuild my social life and support system.  I broke that into many steps.  It is over a year later and I have two new friends and reestablished with a couple of others.  Last night I started an art class (a very basic "no talent" class - it is actually in the course name, lol).  I'm just taken it for fun for myself.  I met a couple of ladies there who were friendly.  The class goes 7 weeks.  Maybe I will make another friend or two.  Or just a couple of "class" friends.  This was unthinkable last summer.

Good luck!

OpenHeart, that is wonderful!  I have been saying to myself for years now how I "need" to get a social life again, and haven't done much about it at all.  My love of solitude keeps growing, lol.  But you have inspired me to begin again.

For those people who are living with someone who has some form of mental illness such as OCPD, Borderline Personality Disorder of Narcissistic Personality Disorder - I would like to strongly recommend the book I have been reading:

'Stop Caretaking The Borderline or Narcissist, How to end the Drama and get on with your life', by Margalis Fjelstad.

There were revelations for me on every page of this book but most settling for me was the knowledge that I was not a 'codependent'. I had explored this notion for a good year recently trying to find answers to the ongoing drama of the marriage and my upset feelings. Fjelstad explains that because people with a personality disorder make such a profound impact on their family members, the family itself cannot keep functioning without someone taking the Caretaker role. This is exactly what happened and Fjelstad gives straightforward knowledge about the situation and advice as to how to make it much better.

She writes, 'Your hope for a better relationship needs to be transferred from trying to heal the the BP/NP to your own healing.' She provides strategies to make communication and functioning much better. For example, she writes, 'Do not discuss any uproar situation afterward...ask yourself whether you ever successfully talked things through with the BP/NP and had anything really change...Remember that the BP/NP really relates only to actions in the present moment and if the present moment is going well, keep it that way." In large, Fjelstad focuses on the Caretaker having self-responsibility, getting control of emotional reactions and ineffective responses to the crazy-making actions of the BP/Np in "different, more honest and realistic ways."

This book has been a great deal of help to me and I have already noticed a sense of calm in myself which seems to have also had an impact on my husband. I am working on the basis here that OCPD is a specific set of behaviors (e.g owning the truth and being perfectionist/procrastinating) but that there are elements of other conditions as well in some cases (e.g. my husband has OCPD characteristics but also can be highly emotional. In bringing up a family the caretaker role is one I assumed in an effort to ensure the children grew up whole.)

What I realized in reading the book was that I have been extremely creative in trying to find answers to my married life but that any creativity on my part was only a temporary fix for a ongoing personality disorder. It's Fjelstad's brutal honesty which is the compelling aspect of her writing style. The Caretaker has no choice but to stand up and pay close attention.

I'd love to discuss the material of the book if anyone here has read it.

Hi ChristinaK,

I am going to move this to our Book Review section if that is ok where you can see others responses to the book and hopefully get more of a conversation going. This is a great book!!

Latchkey

Thank you very much. I didn't know there was an area for books. That's great.

We moved it! Looks like you've found the book reviews!

Read this book last year. Re-read parts all the time.  Very helpful in understanding my uNPDw and father and assisting me along with the book, Boundaries. 

Periodically, I go back and read this book. Every time I do I learn something new or have a new light bulb moment. I think that most valuable aspect of the book for me was the author's absolutely clear and unapologetic message to the caretaker: 1)You can't change someone with a PD; 2) Your first responsibility is to protect yourself and your kids; and 3) There will very likely come a time when you will have to leave your marriage to the PD in order to save your own life -- and when that time comes, get out.

Wow open sky, I'm going to have to read that. I did leave my marriage to bpdh when it came to it. I'm struggling right now with fresh guilt, in behavioral health being taught to have empathy for patients and to not participate in stigmas and encourage family involvement because many mentally ill patients are "abandoned". Eesh.

I happened across Fjelstand's book by chance perhaps a year after reading Ross Rosenberg and Pia Mellody. Through Rosenberg I understood the process of 'dancing with the narcissist' and my initial attraction to the dance, but I didn't know how to get through the process he outlined in  broad brush strokes in the book. Through Mellody I understood that my problem in some way related to a lack of self-love and self-confidence, and that my childhood where my parents were perpetually involved in their work and their own relationship put me at risk, but the banner of 'codependent' never quite rang true. For instance, I had no dependence on drugs, alcohol or tobacco and never had had such a dependence. In nearly all other ways other than the relationship with what I came to understand was a person with a mental condition I was functioning well. I had come to see that I was an empath, very clued into other people and that I was a deeply loyal and hard working person who tended towards self-sacrificing to my own detriment. But,  it wasn't until I got a few pages into Fjelstand's book that it became apparent that at last the author was talking directly to me.

This book turned my life around in a matter of weeks. I learned the following:

- that I married someone long ago who is impaired with a PD; a good person and a loyal person, but someone whose condition has made life very bumpy and made him very sensitive; that any given day can be an emotional one based on events and how this makes him feel.

- that it had obviously seemed to me, unwittingly, that I had no choice but to take on the Caretaker role. "This collusion to make the BP/NP and the family look normal and function as a unit is the job of the Caretaker."

- that I needed to be aware of my own thoughts, needs and beliefs in order to maintain a separate sense of myself (I've worked hard on this for a few years through a meditative practice.)

-that at the same time as I was kind and considerate I needed to set boundaries; that I had been operating under a mix of dysfunctional and distorted emotions, thoughts and behaviors.

Here is what I have noticed since reading and re-reading the book.

- I am not afraid of anger. I don't provoke anger but no-one can prevent a statement not well thought through in every moment. When anger is expressed I am able to walk away from that upset, or to stop the interaction without dwelling on it and analyzing it. It happened. The emotion will peter out. No need to address it or ask for an apology or determine fault. Just move on.

- I seem to be able to foresee potential issues. I am more inclined to say what I would like to have happen, to do things myself, to act myself without needing a blessing, to ask for something, to give space to him and to myself, to seek and receive intimacy, to not be hurt when he is self-involved, to stay in the moment and to recognize that he must stay in the moment, to plan; to accept the reality of the condition and the limitations of that situation. In this way life got smoother and my own internal life settled.

-In essence, I have given up expecting things from him which he is not capable of giving or doing. He can be a wonderful husband but consistency is not possible, nor, apart from holidays and vacations, is it possible to lead an unemotional life. The day, or the hour, is likely to have considerable ups and downs as his emotions govern him. I don't internally fight this. I still massage life but I don't feel shattered when it isn't as I would like it to be.

- What I realized I have done for nearly a decade is to be fully immersed in his life and the repercussions of his decisions at the same time as I neglected to focus on myself and my own ambitions. The book enabled me to see that my life was out of balance, that I had in fact taken on the full time role of Caretaker and I needed to back off from the responsibility I had put on my own shoulders and learn to live lighter; carry less weight.

If you have been in the Caretaker role for decades it isn't easily changed. I searched for years for material and in the process of that found myself making friends with a person who I eventually came to see had NPD. It felt like the person had come into my life to teach me lessons and that I needed to go to the darkest of places before I could reach the light. No one book is likely to turn on the light entirely, that's more of a process...but if you only read one book, I would definitely recommend you read this one.

Ditto to everything you have said.  I didn't really identify as codependent although dxnpd was an addict for  several years until successfully went through his second treatment.   Unfortunately,  at least back then,  treatment programs were an ideal place to practice and perfect his MPS characteristics while it victimized our family.   This book was an eye opener for me and gave me tools to take back my life.  I, too, recommend it for anyone who is or was involved with a person with suspected or confirmed BPD or NPD.

Finished this book yesterday and I highly recommend it. It helps in my journey getting Out of the FOG and leaving the caretaker role. Some parts of the book are more related to people in a relationship with a BP/NPD but there are a lot you can learn from even being a daughter of a BP/NPD. This books helps to see clearly the situation I was in and give you suggestions on how to deal with it and start to live your life, freely.

I think this is a book I will always come back to when I feel a bit foggy. The main take away from this book for me: You have the right to live your life and chose what do you want to do with it, never forget that.  You cannot change anyone but yourself. You have the right to be free. :bigwink:

I'm currently reading this book and finding it very helpful. It has validated many things for me - that I'm not selfish, I do need personal space, it's OK to focus on my own needs and wants. It also has practical and concrete suggestions for ways to step out of the Caretaker role. I'm a details person so I need specifics. :) I feel less powerless, because I can see how I've been contributing to the relationship dynamic and what I can change even if my spouse doesn't.

Quote from: openskyblue on May 30, 2017, 03:43:06 PM
3) There will very likely come a time when you will have to leave your marriage to the PD in order to save your own life -- and when that time comes, get out.

This third thesis is giving me pause. I am committed to my marriage for the long haul, so finding the right balance in the advice she gives is a big goal of mine. However, I have already implemented several things from the book with good results.

Amanzing book. I have so many aha moments I have highlighted a lot of the book. Thank you for the recommendation. A very helpful book  :like: