Out of the FOG

Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men
by Lundy Bancroft (Author)

Paperback: 432 pages
Publisher: Berkley Books; unknown edition (September 2, 2003)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 0425191656
ISBN-13: 978-0425191651

Summary from Amazon:

"He doesn't mean to hurt me-he just loses control."
"He can be sweet and gentle."
"He's scared me a few times, but he never hurts the children-he's a great father."
"He's had a really hard life..."

Women in abusive relationships tell themselves these things every day. Now they can see inside the minds of angry and controlling men-and change their own lives. In this groundbreaking book, a counselor shows how to improve, survive, or leave an abusive relationship, with:

- The early warning signs
- Nine abusive personality types
- How to tell if an abuser can change, is changing, or ever will
- The role of drugs and alcohol
- What can be fixed, and what can't
- How to leave a relationship safely

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Review: I read this book years after I divorced my abusive BPDexH. It confirmed a lot of what I had suspected and validated my suspicions that many men use abusive behaviors because that is what they have been taught and it serves their purposes.

It also helped me heal and realize that certain patterns of emotional or verbal abuse that can so easily be used to control another are quite common and pervasive in many relationships. In my life, unfortunately, there have been numerous men and women who fall into the abusive category.

I like how it broke down the different types and simplified but at the same time expanded on the different ways that abuse can appear.

I don't think it gave me a lot of hope for change and in fact made me realize that the only way a person can change is if they want to and if they get real therapy addressing the behaviors as well as the core issues.

Also, this doesn't just cover men, it covers women as well who are abusive, angry and controlling.

I have seen a few threads that have brought up this book and I think others here at Out of the FOG will benefit from reading and look forward to hearing what others think of the book.

-Latchkey

i recently finished reading this and found it revelatory.  i've been "hip" to the fact that my stbx has PD problems for some time, but reading in black and white so very, very many things that happened in our long relationship and having them defined as abusive has really helped me put the whole regrettable business into perspective. 

it came recommended by my T who suggested i free myself to mark the book when i found anything especially pertinent and i'm afraid to say that once i'd gotten over the initial horror of defacing a book ( :aaauuugh: ) i found myself marking something on almost every page.  often entire paragraphs and not infrequently whole pages. 

what this book has done for me is really highlighted that many many of the behaviours i just assumed i was being "touchy" and "difficult" about are NOT OK or acceptable within good relationships.  i guess i've always had bad relationships, but now i can see where i've been going wrong, what it is normal to expect and that i deserve better.  EVERYONE  deserves better. 

particularly illuminating was the section on the abuser as parent, which has explained so many of the problems we have and still do suffer as a family - problems i could never quite understand and always assumed to be "normal family shit".  as a result i have booked my kids in to family relationship therapy and am hoping for healing and improvement, so HOORAY for this book :D  whilst written in a very accessible style it's not an easy read by any means, containing as it does such stark truths, but i really cannot recommend it enough to anyone needing to clarify the situation in their relationship in order to move on. 

I've read a lot of books about abusive relationships over the last year. This was by far the best, the most illuminating, and the one I'd recommend to anyone who wants to understand more about abusive relationship dynamics.

I really highly recommend this book. It does not use PD vocab but names abusive and controlling behaviours. It really helped me getting a perspective on how his seemingly irrational behaviour is all part of a controlling pattern.

I gave this book to my best friends as well because there is a great section on how abusers recruit allies among friends, therapists, officials. My friends realized themselves he used them to control me emotionally.

I have noticed a pattern with my SO. He will do something rude such as ignoring me when I am talking to him. Can anybody else relate to this?I'm trying to have a conversation with him while I am suddenly looking at the back of his head??? He says he can hear me. He will also go to another room in the middle of a conversation or he just changes the subject completely.  At this point I explain this behavior is the considered rude and ask  him why does he always do that. His mother and father should have taught him that but  they are both uNPD. I am trying to give him insight into his PD by pointing this out in a non threatening manner.He feigns ignorance. After a time he will engage in some passive aggressive behavior to push my buttons, pick a fight and leave the house. Normally he complains that I'm not ready for work early enough. We car pool but my shift starts half hour later. He does not communicate that he wants to leave earlier than normal. It escalates to calling off the engagement if I can't leave 10 minutes early (which means I am an hour early for my shift everyday). I compromise by driving instead of riding with him if I need to run an errand before or after work. This is infuriating to him.I'm not ready to throw in the towel because I know he has insight into his behavior. The real issue is that he is so controlling he doesn't want me to drive to work without him because he is jealous I'm going to meet up with my ex or whoever.

Wow...I really thought I was the only one...
My soon to be ex bpd would always walk out of the room in the middle of a conversation.  He would ask a question, and as soon as I would start to answer, he would simply walk out and walk away.  Did it to me all the time.  I would bring it to his attention as rude, (in the most caring, nicest, and monotonous voice, as to not be told that I was speaking with a "tone,") and of course, it was always my fault for being too sensitive. 
He even told me I was "like a piece of glass" and I had to "toughen up."  Toughen up for what?  To be able to take more of his sh*t?"

I have just started reading this book (about 150 pages in) and I have already recognized so much of my stbxbpdh in these pages. I'm hoping that it will help me come to terms with what I've been through, or at least help me to understand the abuse. I know I can't get through everything alone, but it helps to understand and not feel so alone.

I had purchased this book maybe 12 years ago or so when not yet dxNPDh had gotten much worse in his behavior.  At that time, I began considering a divorce and had talked with a Sister at my church who was very supportive.  I had asked H to see a marriage counselor with me and he said "sure" (this is how he handles everything...says yes but uses it to manipulate over time).  So I found a counselor, she met with us once and then met with us individually with H seeing her first.  When I went in for my meeting with her, she was so sympathetic to him, I was stunned.  His lack of sleep (I'm the one with chronic insomnia and have since I was a child), his back pain (I was headed for back surgery at that time, not him) and so on and so on.  All my "issues" had become his and now I sounded quite lame when I went into the same things.  Within a couple of weeks of meeting with her, things had blown up.  When I called her, and I said he was being quite abusive, she asked me in a strangely odd voice "do you THINK you're being abused"?  I never went back to her.  I had begun reading Lundy's book but I remember now that I had only read the descriptions of the various types of abusers.  I had been attending an educational/support group for abused woman at our local shelter at that time, too.  Anyway, in the midst of this time is when I discovered H was having another affair and it threw me so off kilter I can't explain it.  It was so out of the blue and I basically fell apart.  I never went back to the shelter group and I stopped reading the book (H knew of this book as it is hard to keep anything private from him unless I find off site ways to hide them).  At this point, I learned about a marriage program for couples in troubled marriages and we ended up going to it.  For a couple of years, it seemed we were on the path to recovery in our marriage.

Anyway, after reading a few comments about this book on this site, I decided to download it to my Kindle (I hadn't yet recalled why I couldn't remember most things that were being mentioned from the book) and began reading it yesterday.  Today, much of this came back to me (talk about amnesia which someone has started a thread about) and I really realized how much I had been taken for a ride back then.  It really was all manipulation to get me to not pursue the divorce (his gf had dumped him I later learned) and he did major Hoover and damage control so I would thnk he wanted so much to change.  As I read chapter 14, so much came clear.  :doh:

Right now, I feel like such a f*cking fool.  He is easily as bad as he ever was and worse in some ways.  No respect, verbally abusive and aggressive.  His taking the house off the market, which I figured must be cause the poor guy felt panicked, was likely purposeful for his own goals which, as always, remain secret. 

So here it is Valentine's Day, and I am spending it relearning what I once knew about abuse and had let myself become FOGged about.  I bought two chocolate covered strawberries when I grocery shopped earlier and I am going to enjoy them with a glass of wine I also bought myself.   Let H take his entitlement and victimhood to the bedroom when he realizes I ain't sharing (the bedroom is a sex-free zone). 

OpenHeart,
You are not a fool. You are normal. He's a tool who doesn't deserve a good woman like you.

My pdxh decided to start texting me today of all days, after months of silence. V day was his favorite break up day and since we are now divorced nearly 2 years he feels *safe* in sending me 12 lines full of just emojis of hearts, flowers and smiley faces.
WTF??? What is he 13? (no, he is mid-fifties)

I chalk it up to him trolling for extra supply.  I didn't reply.

These PD men don't change, they don't recover. They have hiccups of occasional normalcy in an ocean of volcanic crazy.
What I know NOW is normal men have hiccups of crazy in years of ordinary normalcy.
Stick to your exit plan, save yourself. You'll wonder later what took you so long.
Bonnieg

My first lamp. 

I learned he knows what he is doing and he is doing it on purpose because it works, even though he is "sick". 

I learned I can't fix him, he has to get help for himself.

It was incredibly validating.  I read my life story on those pages.  I wasn't crazy, other people experienced the same things.

That lamp helped me see how bloody and bruised I have become.  But the path out is there and others are along the way to help.

 :yeahthat: :yeahthat:

Quote from: We3 on February 22, 2015, 01:50:09 PM
My first lamp. 

I learned he knows what he is doing and he is doing it on purpose because it works, even though he is "sick". 

I learned I can't fix him, he has to get help for himself.

It was incredibly validating.  I read my life story on those pages.  I wasn't crazy, other people experienced the same things.

That lamp helped me see how bloody and bruised I have become.  But the path out is there and others are along the way to help.

Bancroft's book is one I kept and didn't pass on to a friend or the thrift store, once I felt I no longer needed it.
It's that good.
It also has helped me view other 'acting out" people such as bullies in the workplace, or chaotic family members- with a view to what is normal and what is not.
it's a great resource.

bonnieg

This book is very insightful, highly practical with real life examples and advice, and very validating to read.  I listened to it on Audible.  It made me realize I had been living with a Demand Man.  I have bolded those statements which apply particularly to my individual circumstance.

I have been reluctant to call my partner's behavior abuse.  It's a hard thing to admit.  But if these bolded statements are what a professional defines as emotional abuse, I have definitely suffered from it.  I don't plan to enlighten my STBXh that he displayed emotionally controlling and abusive behavior, because I really don't think there is a point to it.  He will simply deny it or justify it, or more likely, turn it around on me somehow.  In the future, my goal is to recognize the signs of abuse early and often, and never allow anyone to control me with anger, manipulation, and the silent treatment again.

I recommend this book to anyone struggling with physical or emotional abuse in their relationships.

"THE DEMAND MAN

The Demand Man is highly entitled. He expects his partner's life to revolve around meeting his needs and is angry and blaming if anything gets in the way. He becomes enraged if he isn't catered to or if he is inconvenienced in even a minor way. The partner of this man comes to feel that nothing she does is ever good enough and that it is impossible to make him happy. He criticizes her frequently, usually about things that he thinks she should have done—or done better—for him.

Is every highly demanding partner an abuser? No. There are specific elements to the Demand Man's style:

1. He has little sense of give and take. His demands for emotional support, favors, caretaking, or sexual attention are well out of proportion to his contributions; he constantly feels that you owe him things that he has done nothing to earn.

2. He exaggerates and overvalues his own contributions. If he was generous one day back in 1997, you are probably still hearing about it today as proof of how wonderfully he treats you and how ungrateful you are. He seems to keep a mental list of any favors or kindnesses he ever does and expects each one paid back at a heavy interest rate. He thinks you owe him tremendous gratitude for meeting the ordinary responsibilities of daily life—when he does—but takes your contributions for granted.

3. When he doesn't get what he feels is his due, he punishes you for letting him down.

4. When he is generous or supportive, it's because he feels like it. When he isn't in the mood to give anything, he doesn't. He is positive or loving toward you when he feels the need to prove to himself or to others that he is a good person, or when there is something that he is about to demand in return; in other words, it's about him, not you. The longer you have been with him, the more his generous-seeming actions appear self-serving.

5. If your needs ever conflict with his, he is furious. At these times he attacks you as self-centered or, inflexible, turning reality on its head with statements such as, All you care about is yourself! He tends to work hard to convince outsiders of how selfish and ungrateful you are, speaking in a hurt voice about all the things he does for you.

At the same time, the Demand Man is likely to be furious if anything is demanded of him. Not only are you not supposed to demand any favors, you aren't even supposed to ask him to take care of his own obligations. If you ask him to clean up a mess he's left, he responds, I'm not your fucking servant. If you ask him to pay money he owes you or to work more hours to help out with the household expenses, he says, You're a typical woman, all you want from me is my money. If you complain to him of how rarely he is there for you, he'll say, You are a needy, controlling bitch. He keeps twisting things around backward in these ways, so that any effort you make to discuss your needs or his responsibilities switches abruptly to being about his needs and your responsibilities.

The Demand Man is sometimes less controlling than other abusers as long as he is getting his needs met on his terms. He may allow you to have your own friendships or support you in pursuing your own career. But the effects on you of your partner's extreme entitlement can be just as destructive as severe control.

The central attitudes driving the Demand Man are:

• It's your job to do things for me, including taking care of my responsibilities if I drop the ball on them. If I'm unhappy about any aspect of my life, whether it has to do with our relationship or not, it's your fault.
• You should not place demands on me at all. You should be grateful for whatever I choose to give.
• I am above criticism.
• I am a very loving and giving partner. You're lucky to have me."

It is by far the most informative and empowering book I have read.

Brilliant book. It really helped me make sense of stuff in my head, would recommend it to anyone.

    I finally read this book after seeing ti recommended on this site many times. What an eye-opener! This website has helped me begin to come Out of the FOG but Bancroft's book has been like a giant flashlight showing me the way and illuminating my whole almost 30 year marriage.  I have often said that things really got bad with my H about 4 or 5 years ago, but after reading this book I realize that I've been suffering abuse for nearly our whole relationship. I always wondered why our r/s seemed so hard, so complicated, why I felt so angry and frustrated when dealing with him.  I would ask my Mom for advice because she and my Dad has such a great marriage, I tried to apply advice from our minister, from self-help books; nothing ever seemed to work.  Now I know why. This book cleared up so many questions I had and validated my experiences like nothing else ever has. I found myself highlighting and making stars and exclamation points in the margins as I found point after point that hit home with me.  If you are on this website for help then you NEED to read this book!

Just read it, along with the Daily Wisdom from Why Does He Do That? Both are great and illuminating....if a bit depressing. Sad for me to see how difficult/impossible it is for them to change, especially if they don't even recognize there's a problem. My husband is also a Demands Man, fits the description perfectly.

As a note, I have been in DV counseling for a couple months now, and my counselor gives me photocopied chapters from this book each visit to read before my next visit.  So I must say it is such a good book that DV assistance programs use it to help their clients.

Indeed, it is good reading.

This book has opened my eyes to so much.  At this moment, any doubts I had have been pushed aside. 

Lundy Bancroft, having worked with abusive men in a therapeutic setting, gives a glimpse into the workings of the abusive mind.  For anyone who has asked themselves "why?", you will find at least some answers. 

I haven't finished the book yet, but I can hardly put it down.  For my own safety (emotional), I only read when H isn't around.  In the descriptions, I recognized H in The Water Torturer, The Demand Man and The Player.   It wasn't just his description of that type of abuser, but his description of what, as a victim of that abuse, the SO would experience/feel.  That was so validating, especially with The Water Torturer.   I always wondered what was wrong with me that everyone saw H as a nice, easy going guy and LB describing that as a method of abuse (what it always felt like to me), allowed me to literally sigh with relief. 

Very insightful and helpful book. 

I finished this one and found it very validating.  I read it based on a recommendation...even though I wasnt a victim of abuse.  Well, I kept identifying more and more with the book.  Yes, he does that.  Yes, that is exactly what our conversations sound like.  Etc.  I now see that I was being emotionally abused.  There were items broken here and there and physical intimidation, but he didnt strike me, so I wasnt comfortable calling it abuse. 
This book helped me tremendously.  It was nice to hear from the perspective of someone who works with abusers how reluctant they are to change.  She does touch on some issues with personality disorders, but the focus is mainly on men without them.  I still identify with a lot of it.  I really felt a sense of relief when she explained how drug abuse doesnt cause a man to be abusive.  I had excused so much "because he has a problem and cant help it." 
The book really strengthened my resolve.  I was left with a sense of "none of this is your fault," which is good, but I'm now focusing on my own beliefs and behaviors and why I allowed that sort of treatment in the first place so I dont repeat it.

Lundy Bancroft is a man. It’s a large part of what makes this book such an essential read for all women.

Most books on abuse are written by women and almost all of them are written from the perspective of the victim.  Very few dig in to why the abuser does what he does.

Bancroft has run a court ordered program for men convicted of abusing their partners for decades. He has seen “the other side”. This is why his message of “they do not change” is so powerful. Not only has he seen this first hand, he has first hand and intimate experience with the abuser. He has very little contact with the victim and hears first hand, in rooms full of men who are also abusers, so these men are more likely to be upfront about what and why. This is a side very few women ever get to see and the book offers invaluable insight into the dynamics of abuse in intimate relationships.

When I read this book there was a section where the man was saying the exact same things a friend’s husband was. The EXACT same. I sent her a copy of the book. She read it and said “it was interesting but it doesn’t apply to me”. There was a section there he word for word laid out what her husband was saying and doing. Yet she simply wasn’t in a place to see it as abuse. We are so conditioned to think of abuse as physical only. It takes a lot of courage to open ourselves up to the fact that we are in abusive relationships. I was divorced by the time I was able to acknowledge the reality of my marriage. I blamed myself for all his actions and excused everything he did.

Read this book in 1 day because I couldn't put it down (I skipped the chapters about workplace, etc because I was reading it about my xPDh).

I have already recommended it to several of my girlfriends even though as GettingOOTF said above: when you are not ready to admit it is abuse, you will think it doesn't apply to you. I know I was in deep denial about this myself because my xPDh was not physically violent in the extreme ways and he knew how to put on intellectual charm for manipulation. So I thought he was too decent of a guy to be called an abuser. I spent YEAR protecting him and his ego anyway, always hiding our relationship problems because I was busy trying not to get others to see him badly. I had bought into the lies of lovebombing phase pretty hard.

Anyway, back to the book, as all folks have said: if you're in a relationship where you feel something unhealthy is going on but you're not quite sure, please read this book. If you just ended an unhealthy relationship and are trying to understand what happened and how to avoid it in the fture: read this book. Honestly, I'd broadly recommend this book to all young women, I sure wish I'd read it years ago.

Has anyone found this book helpful for those of us who witnessed toxic dynamics between their parents?