Out of the FOG

Coping with Personality Disorders => Dealing with PD Parents => Topic started by: jennsc85 on November 04, 2017, 06:53:42 PM

Title: The surgery saga continues
Post by: jennsc85 on November 04, 2017, 06:53:42 PM
So, last night my mother went to the ER and was there for 13 hours according to her. Apparently nothing was serious enough to warrant surgery… Imagine that.she texted me when she woke up today and there was no mention of me refusing to take her to the emergency room yesterday. She texted me when she woke up and was texting all the normal stuff about her health problems and how horrible she feels etc. etc.

She asked me to pick her something up at Walmart which has been  happening  every other day since her surgery if not every day. I was going to Walmart for something for myself anyway so I figured I would get it. Well, one thing turned into a list of things which turned into me going to three different places looking for things. She actually told me that she didn't like the toilet paper brands at Walmart so I would need to go to Kroger to get them instead. So I did all this but I was furious the entire time. My kids were with me and my two-year-old was throwing a fit because he was bored I was upset because I was taking time away from things that I needed to do at home. And I've decided that I just can't do these daily errands for her every day for the next six weeks.

Would it be a good idea to send her a text message addressing that? I was thinking of saying "Mom I'm not able to go out every day or every other day this week to get things. I will go one day a week. Otherwise I know Walmart has two day shipping. I just can't keep going as often as I have been this past week."

I was going to JADE And tell her how my kids were upset and crabby and how I'm using extra gas to go all  over the place and how it's stressing me out and how I'm not having any time with my family… But I realized that that wouldn't do any good because she won't care. She would have some response about how she's more important because she said surgery and blah blah blah and I don't really feel like hearing that.

Do you think what I came up with is ok? Or is it too confrontational? Not clear enough?  I'm mad at myself for getting roped into it today I guess I thought that where she had been at the emergency room for half a day it would be nice of me to pick her up some stuff while I was going to the store that I was going to go to anyways. But as usual it turns into wat more than it supposed to and I just can't take it. How do I keep myself at a distance from all this while still helping until she's more able to do things herself? I'm thinking of implementing a break when this is all over but for the time being how do I stay sane?
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: Seven on November 04, 2017, 07:03:30 PM
My idea would be to look for errand companies in your mother's area.  You cant keep doing this.  It's too ridiculous.  Or you say "I will do it MY way or otherwise you can find someone else to do it!!"

Or just say "im peacing out.  Done!! Fin!!"  DO NOT JADE.  She knows what she is doing to you, she's doing it on purpose, and she needs no explanation. 
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: moglow on November 04, 2017, 07:19:09 PM
Quote
She actually told me that she didn't like the toilet paper brands at Walmart so I would need to go to Kroger to get them instead...

THIS is the hill she has chosen to die on: toilet paper??  Seriously, read that again.


She's toying with you because she can. She knew she was having this surgery (how far in advance??) and still failed to make adequate preparation. Her stuff, not yours.

I could roll with it if the cat only ate particular brands of food (mine are that way) but still. She knew weeks ago and could/ should have prepared. She didn't because else knew she could guilt you into it. AND apparently she's managed to research what's available where, so you have to make yet another trip. Think about that.

My advice - see if there are errand services in her area, provide her contact info for them. For you (if it'll appease your sense if obligation), agree to running x errand on y day and that's IT. She gives you a list and you bring it back, leave it on the porch. Period. When delivery is complete, you mute her calls/texts.

Find some boundaries here, build a damn wall if you have to. You are not on call 24/7 unless you allow it. Really. You're not. What, really, can she do if you fail her (and you will Because she set it up that way)? Not a thing other than cry and complain. Nothing.
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: MIB on November 04, 2017, 07:42:30 PM
Hmm, I might not say something proactively, but rather the next time she asks, I'd reply (by text), "I'd love to help but I won't have the chance to go shopping until Xday. If you can wait till then, I'll grab them then. If not, you can ask Whoever to pick then up or order them online and have them delivered. "

Do you think that could work?
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: Zebrastriped on November 04, 2017, 08:24:16 PM
jennsc85, if you don't want to run the errands, don't.  Alternately, I agree you need to set some boundaries here.  I'm available to my parents for short number of hours, one day a week.  It morphed into errands, which suits me fine, its better than in the house with the two of them toxic dancing.  Routinely, my dad and I visit 4+ stores every errand day because this thing is only available at that store.  Because there is no planning, my dad has visited the same store two days in a row.  Totally a drag for him, he hates shopping.

Your response sounds fine to me, except that based on my experience, you might want to limit the number of stores.  I see that you have experienced this already.  So, potentially, its
"mom, I visit Walmart on Wednesdays.  Give me your Wally list Tuesday night and I will drop off Wed afternoon on my way to __________ (fill in the blank with a specific time thing ie. get kids from school, be at bus stop).  Thus, you can exit swiftly and not be pulled down the rabbit hole.  It took me a good couple of years and some misfires to become errand Alexa, so it may take you time to find a balance between your sanity and her need.
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: raindrop on November 04, 2017, 09:07:53 PM
Hi Jenn, I just caught up on your other thread. You've started taking steps to free yourself and it's scary: The backlash is scary from M, and maybe freedom is scary too - for me it's going to be about finding an identity outside FOO, and that's actually pretty hard! But so worth it! Do send that text, either in response to the next request or proactively. "I can't run errands this often. I go to Walmart on Thursday and I can pick some things up there for you then. For anything else, call the delivery company, here's their number."

You're doing great! Don't stop, keep  pushing. I know you're exhausted but you can do it!
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: VividImagination on November 04, 2017, 09:48:41 PM
One thing I find very interesting...once you set an ironclad boundary ("I will not take you to the hospital") she never mentions it again once the crisis has passed...she moves on to another way to make you jump. Set the boundary here and see what she moves on to next. Her available list of ways to control you is shrinking since her threats never come about...I guess the hospital police were too busy to pick you up.

Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: jennsc85 on November 04, 2017, 10:03:54 PM
Thanks for the suggestions, everyone! I like the Idea of waiting for her to ask me for something rather than just putting it out there because she might take that as being confrontational or something. I guess I thought it might be better to tell her ahead of time so that if she says tomorrow or the next day that she needs x y and z I would have already told her that I couldn't get it so she could make other plans. Does that make any sense?

I just feel like I have no semblance of how to get control of this whole situation with her. I let it get completely out of hand by agreeing to do anything in the first place. It just feel so wildly manipulative that I went out on Thursday and got her $200 worth of groceries that she picked out and there's STILL stuff she needs. How does that even happen? If you know that you're using half a tube of this special cream every day then freaking order 10 of them! She's done stuff this my entire life and I am just so sick of it.
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: raindrop on November 04, 2017, 11:11:00 PM
Yeah she's totally doing that on purpose, she's pushing boundaries to see how far she can go, like kids do.
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: jennsc85 on November 04, 2017, 11:32:13 PM
One thing I find very interesting...once you set an ironclad boundary ("I will not take you to the hospital") she never mentions it again once the crisis has passed...she moves on to another way to make you jump. Set the boundary here and see what she moves on to next. Her available list of ways to control you is shrinking since her threats never come about...I guess the hospital police were too busy to pick you up.

I hadn't even thought of this, but you're right. Several months ago when I said I wouldn't pick her up from an appointment and I got the ST for a week... she initially just ignored what had happened and only threw it in my face later on that she was left waiting in the rain and whatnot. Other times I've told her "no" she just acts like it never happened. I honestly hadn't even noticed until you mentioned that! Today the only thing she had to say was that she wished my 6 year old was 10 years older so that she could stay with her and help her after this surgery. God, no. My worst fear is my kids being roped into the same crap that I've been roped into.

But anyways, no, the hospital police did not come after me! Surprise surprise! I guess it was another empty threat. I really was worried last night that because she gave them my name that I'd be summoned to the hospital or something. I still feel like she has so much power in so many ways but I suppose a lot of that power is just manipulation that's been implanted in my brain since...forever. I just worry that one day one of her threats will have some actual clout.
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: VividImagination on November 04, 2017, 11:57:04 PM
That's an easy fix. What viable legal threat can an aging parent hold over an adult child?

Unless you have signed some sort of paperwork naming you as healthcare proxy or POA or there are filial laws in your state (easily searchable online) that require children to care for their parents, there is nothing.

My favorite tactic of visualizing the worst thing a PD can do so you can prepare yourself works here also. Research EXACTLY what you are responsible for in your state in regards to your parent. You will probably be pleasantly surprised. Then you can rest easy knowing that the threats are empty, as they all have been so far.

She knows the terror she causes in you, and she happily does it to get what she wants. Your poor kids....she sounds like she's already planning who to replace you with when you bail...please protect them!!!
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: jennsc85 on November 05, 2017, 12:11:24 AM
I've never signed any kind of legally binding paperwork like POA. The only thing I've ever done is sign something saying that she understood she was sedated for a surgery she had like 6 months ago.

Unfortunately there are filial laws in my state. I contacted an elder law attorney who said that they have not been used in our state in many, many years. They told me that unless I'm extraordinarily wealthy I shouldn't worry... apparently the most well known recent case of filial law was in Pennsylvania where some guy had to pay for his mother's nursing home but he was a multi millionaire, according to what this lawyer said.

I'd really like to go for a consultation just to ease my mind but it's something I can't afford right now. I guess I'll try to put that worry in the back of my mind. Even if it did happen, I'd rather go to jail than be forced to care for her.

I think she thinks my kids will be my replacement if something happens to me or if I eventually refuse to help her. I feel like I should tell my kids something but at 6 and 2 I don't know that they'd really "get it" yet. They are around her as little as possible which I think is the best defense at this point.
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: VividImagination on November 05, 2017, 12:36:21 AM
They are around her as little as possible which I think is the best defense at this point.

It is. If they have no attachment to her and she hasn't indoctrinated them with FOG, then when they are adults they will have zero interest in the crazy old lady.

I'd really like to go for a consultation just to ease my mind but it's something I can't afford right now. I guess I'll try to put that worry in the back of my mind. Even if it did happen, I'd rather go to jail than be forced to care for her.

I really wouldn't worry about it. Although I'm not an attorney, the fact alone that your mother had access to very large sums of money (the large settlement and large checks she receives from her father) but yet squandered it would lend a great deal of credence to the fact that she was in fact much better off financially than you, a working (I assume middle class) parent with a family of four. This is easily traceable, as I'm sure all of these payments have passed through her personal bank account. I would assume that a parent with an income as substantial as your mother's would be laughed out of court if she demanded filial support. A parent must be indigent for this to even apply, Your mother is far from indigent, and although I do not doubt she would quit her job to drive her agenda, she must be able to prove is she is totally and completely unABLE to work, not simply unwilling. That is not indigent...that is lazy.
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: Spring Butterfly on November 05, 2017, 12:40:39 AM
Quote
feel like I have no semblance of how to get control of this whole situation with her
You're on the right track with boundaries. You got the idea with no JADE.

Quote
saying "Mom I'm not able to go out every day or every other day this week to get things. I will go one day a week. Otherwise I know Walmart has two day shipping. I just can't keep going as often as I have been this past week."
In the second half of your boundary statement you outline clearly what you will you will do and even offer a suggestion for how she can help herself. The first sentence is entirely optional and may feel less confrontational if you concentrate your statement on what you can do rather than what you cannot or will not do.

Quote
she gave them my name that I'd be summoned to the hospital or something
my smart mouth MC inner tween brain says "pfff make me" :tongue2:
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: WomanInterrupted on November 05, 2017, 01:18:37 AM
Addressing your issues, in no particular order:

1.  "Mom, I'm going to the store on Thursday.  That is the ONLY day I'm going to the store.  If you need something before then, order it from Amazon.  Otherwise, have it delivered from Walmart."

If she whines or pitches a fit, you're going to have to pull out the big guns:  "Mom - I said no, so stop it.  The discussion is over.  Goodbye."

TOO BAD about the Walmart toilet paper.  If she doesn't like it - she can order something she does like from Amazon.  Otherwise, she can go to Kroger and get it her damned self!   :evil2:

And yes - she had plenty of time to stock up, especially on cat and dog food!  I know milk and bread are a little trickier, but that's why she has a FREEZER.  :roll:

To expand on something Moglow said - we have a couple of cats who are picky eaters and one who is on a restricted diet.  I'd be loaded for BEAR in that department if I knew I wasn't going to be able to get out or around for quite a while.  I wouldn't leave it to chance - or for the last minute.  I'd just buy a few extra cans a week for a few months and be comfortable in the knowledge that no matter what, the Wrecking Crew has food.   :)

So, all these trips to the store - no more.  Once a week, if then - if she's lucky and you don't block her for continually sending you on endless Quests.   >:(

I'm sorry - that toilet paper thing really pissed me off FOR you.    >:(

Then again, that Walmart toilet paper could come in handy if you wanted to TP her house!   :bigwink:

2.  I notice she got herself HOME from the hospital and didn't call or text 10,000 times for a ride.  There was NO mention of a ride - just that she was home.

So she IS capable of doing things for herself and like a child, is pushing your boundaries, to see what she can and can't get away with!   :roll:

3.  Filial responsibilities - most states trot them out in cases like you described (very wealthy adult children), but usually use them as a scare tactic when an aging parent needs to go on Medicaid, but won't give out the extensive information Medicaid needs.   They "threaten" the adult children to get the parent to comply - or have the adult children to find the info, if the parent either can't or won't.

That's why I had an eldercare attorney - not because I'd be on the hook, but to shelter some assets and slay the Medicaid Monster *for* me - because it really IS an impressive beast and I wasn't going to tussle with that, all by myself!   :aaauuugh:

4.  You're NOT going to get in any trouble with the hospital if you don't answer their calls, don't return messages, don't show up, or don't do a thing if she goes back in for whatever reason.  You are NOT a responsible party!

What you ARE is contact info/next of kin - that's all.  If you had a procedure, you'd give them your DH's contact info, and maybe the info of your BFF - it's on file as a "just in case" precaution.

When a hospital calls you about something important, it usually goes like this:  Do you know if she's got a DNR in place?  You don't?  Okay...we have to treat her like she doesn't.  Thanks for clarifying that.

Or:  "Ray is in the treatment room and wants his teeth.  Can you bring them in?  No?   Okay, I'll tell him."   :roll:

Unless you're the Medical Proxy, they probably won't call you for anything.

5.  If you don't WANT to do anything for her, you don't HAVE to.  You can give her a warning about ordering things from Walmart and Amazon and block her number, if you want - which I'd DO at this point because the woman acts like an anxiety-ridden sadist, who gets off on torturing you!

I suggest blocking her number because every time you put up a boundary, she escalates - and she's going to keep right on doing it until her dying breath.

Not only will she have you running for HOURS a day, if you let her, you'll be over there *every single day* with another medical or veterinary crisis du jour, she'll start making demands YOU give her enemas or glove up and remove that nasty impacted turd!

OR...I can't even believe I'm typing this   :blink:...you may start getting calls that it's an emergency, you have to come NOW, RIGHT NOW and *look at the poop in the toilet!*  There's something WRONG with it!  She needs you to SEE it!   :barfy:

Every single one of these things happened with Didi, and every single time, she got, "No - I can't do that.  You need to speak to your doctor.  I can't help you."

Didi wasn't bludgeoning me with a billion calls and texts a day, so I was in a much stronger state of mind - your mom is *relentless* at constantly wearing you down and trying to erode your confidence.

Since she's never going to give up, blocking her is the path of least resistance for *your* state of mind.   :yes:

You've GOT THIS!   8-)

 :hug:
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: daughterofbpd on November 05, 2017, 03:33:34 AM
That's insane, how could one person "need" that much stuff? My grandma had this thing were she thought she needed to stockpile everything "just in case" which was kind of ridiculous since she had several people who would be willing to run to the store if she was ever in danger of running out of something (and trust me, she never got anywhere near close to running out of anything). Maybe it's an anxiety thing? Even so, by giving in to her "needs" every time, you aren't really helping her get over that anxiety and realize she will survive if she doesn't have 32 extra rolls of toilet paper on the exact day she wants them. These things aren't NEEDS, they're WANTS. She will survive without them and if she really believes that she can't then she can order online. So yeah, having to have a specific brand of TP is not a NEED. Also, I would suggest offering up ONE shopping trip per week (when you do your own shopping) to ONE store. If she forgets to have you buy something, she can wait until the following week. Or she can order it herself. I think she's playing games with you also, very pleased with herself that she can command you to run all around town for her.

You have actual NEEDS that aren't being met right now: the need for peace, the need for rest (emotional and physical), the need to have the energy to care for your dependent children, the need for quality family time with your FOC, the need for some time to yourself, the need to not be emotionally abused.... Now, don't all those things sound more important than your M's extra rolls of designer toilet paper???

Sorry if that was too tough love. I think you are doing great but you seem really exhausted and over-worked and I'm afraid you can't go on like this much longer. I have a 2 year old, btw, and I have no idea how you are managing all of this.
 :bighug:
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: daughter on November 05, 2017, 12:08:16 PM
As I recall, your mother's in her early 60s, and maybe has a wealthy father who is still alive?  (Or is that Dinah-Sore?) Regardless, your chances of an elder-care legal-suit are nil.  Your legal responsibilities for managing life-needs and household requirements of a woman in her 60s are ZERO, so long as you DON'T SIGN any legal documents assuming POA, custody-care, or hospital discharge papers confirming that you're responsible person for her.

Jenn, you and Dinah-Sore are at significant risk of becoming captive full-time caregivers to your reasonably-healthy NPD mothers.  You're both TOO AVAILABLE. 

Your mothers likely have years life ahead of them, but seem dependent personalities who rely upon other family members (principally YOU) to function as their life-manager.  This needs to stop, for both of you, before your truly jeopardize your own emotional well-being, neglect your own families, marriage, and children, and get "swallowed-whole" by your overtly narcissistic and extremely demanding mothers.  These expectations and demands foisted on you two are unreasonable, overwhelming, and demonstrating a toxic degree of control and self-entitlement.  I think both of you need to create significant new boundaries, reduce amount of time available for "mom attention", and begin to respond to these demands with rote response: "mom, it's time to move to a senior-care facility or hire a caregiver; I'm unable to devote this amount of time to you, because it's causing far too much disruption at home." 

And then screen your calls, and respond to her calls only every second day, then every third day, and so forth, until you're at once-a-week contact, at most, if contact is desired by you.  Your mother have persistent "learned helplessness"; her demands are ultimately rewarded, time and again, causing a Pavlovian response of "bark enough and I get a treat" self-entitlement.  Hereon, consider "emergencies" as genuine only once she's in ER and ER has called YOU - our npd-mothers have a terrific sense of self-preservation and self-care; so in genuine emergency, their own 911 call will be made

My hyper-needy "queen bee" NBM was routinely "sucking all the oxygen" too.  My otherwise enviably healthy NBM is a hypochondriac, who NF routinely drives to ER (never ambulance, note) at least once a month, for years, with exaggerated symptoms that never result in any diagnosis beyond "anxiety".  NBM has had many self-diagnosed "cancer scares" and "heart attacks", none medically confirmed.  Even NBM's routine cataract surgery turned into a three-week daily doctor visit demand, until opthatomologist "fired" her from his office.  These theatrics were routine while I was still "dutiful daughter", with yes, the "drop everything, come now" dictum expounded by both NBM and my enabler-enforcer NF.  During decade before my NC decision, I stopped responding to the calls, let them go into voicemail, sometimes calling NF to say "call me if it's anything really", sometimes ignoring episode altogether.  Yes, I finally chose to go NC, for many reasons, I was the maligned SG, in addition to being "dutiful daughter/good girl", but these looming eldercare responsibilities, me as obvious future designated "go-fer" caregiver, truly worried me.  I've one sibling, GC "princess" nsis, incapable of doing anything for anyone, (who interestingly my NBM and NF did every little household and childcare task for her, note role-reversal, while nsis did zip for anyone in my family).  My NBM and NF had zero responsibilities for their own parents' eldercare, yet nonetheless they often expressed their presumption that I was their "eldercare plan".  I feared being chained to my NBM and NF in their final years.  The last 5+ years of peaceful NC have been a blessing to me. 

We don't "owe" our difficult parents our constant attention; a mutually-respectful and empathetic relationship is needed before "needs" can be reasonably addressed.   
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: Malini on November 05, 2017, 12:30:17 PM
Quote
Didi wasn't bludgeoning me with a billion calls and texts a day, so I was in a much stronger state of mind - your mom is *relentless* at constantly wearing you down and trying to erode your confidence.

Jennsc85 - when I read WI post - this jumped out at me and reminded me of many a torture scene I've watched on TV. Relentless, not letting people catch their breath, breaking them down until they are too weary or in so much pain (and your emotional pain is just as real as any physical pain) to resist. Just making them feel continually under siege and fighting for their lives until they give in.  :aaauuugh:

She is going to try and wrangle you back into dutiful daughter mode without any consideration for your well being or the wellbeing of her grandchildren, etc., only her needs are important and she'll try and get you to toe the line at whatever cost to you (her daughter  :roll:).

You can put a stop to this, you can prioritise your children's needs over hers, you can prioritize your health over hers. You've already done so well during this crisis, it's scary and you've been so brave.  Your actions are already bearing fruit in the area you tackled, it's working. Your 2 year old really does need you to look out for her needs and care for her. Your mom is an adult and has a ton of other options to get her needs met.

As dutiful daughters, we are so used to putting aside our own needs to cater for our parents shenanigans. I found it easier to set boundaries, in the beginning of coming OOTF) when I kept the wellbeing and happiness of my children as the primary goal for doing this. And this included not just refusing to be at my parents beck and call 24/24 but also ensuring I was in good mental shape myself to be the mom I wanted to be.

Thinking of and rooting for you.  :bighug:




Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: jennsc85 on November 05, 2017, 03:34:00 PM
Daughter- "Your mother have persistent "learned helplessness"; her demands are ultimately rewarded, time and again, causing a Pavlovian response of "bark enough and I get a treat" self-entitlement. " This is the absolute truth. My mother has learned, her entire life, that if she causes a huge enough scene that she will get her way. Everyone in her life who was in a "caregiver" position for her was always so fearful of her rages and reactions that they'd eventually relent rather than deal with her wrath. I'm in that category too. It's difficult for me to stand up to her because she is SO persistent. She told me once that "No" to her meant "Try harder." She doesn't think of "no" as "no" she sees it as a challenge and does whatever she has to in order to turn it into a yes, and then she berates the other person for not being more cheerful about helping her.


She actually just texted me telling me something that she needed that she had NO IDEA she was going to need. She asked me if I was going to the store today and I said...

"No, and I'm not going to be able to make trips to the store for stuff more than once a week." I told her to pick between two days that I gave her and told her I am not able to keep going every day or every other day and that Walmart has 2 day shipping on almost everything, as does Amazon....

She said "I know that" and told me that being in the ER for 13 affects one's memory and that she wasn't thinking of this item yesterday  but that she needs it NOW.

I'm going to try really hard to hold strong to this one. It sounds like something she really needs but her dog and pony show yesterday stressed me out about as much as I could take. She just said "This is a HEALTH CARE NEED! Not an f-ing cell phone accessory, Jenn!!!"
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: jennsc85 on November 05, 2017, 03:48:03 PM
OK she just said "You would be a prime candidate for elder abuse."

I'm torn between ignoring it and saying "Fortunately I'm not a caregiver for an elderly person."

Stuff like that scares me so bad. She couldn't actually get me in trouble for elder abuse for not getting her health related item, right?
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: moglow on November 05, 2017, 04:17:05 PM
Jenn, I wouldn't respond at all.  She's now said something you can't unsee and she can't just gloss over - claims/accusations of elder abuse aren't funny regardless of how baseless they are.  Mine's done some of that as well, and is one reason I refuse to visit or be alone with her.  She's absolutely capable of throwing a fit and changing it up to make herself appear to be a victim.  From what you've said, I'm not altogether sure yours wouldn't do the same. 

Again, your mother is toying with you.  You haven't refused to do anything for her, far from it.  She just keeps upping the ante and "forgetting" to tell you what she needs.  And lest we be unclear - are these needs or wants?  There's a difference.

You have nothing to be scared of here.  You've jumped and fetched and carried for how long now?  Seems to me if there were something actually needed, that would have been way up on the FIRST list, not thrown out there as an afterthought.  Surgeries and hospitalizations give you after care instructions, discharge orders.  It's lined out very specifically what a patient needs to do and not do, prescriptions, etc.  There's not a lot of gray area there.

She has a car, Jenn, yours unless I'm mistaken [or am I thinking of someone else?]?  She has options she's choosing to not avail herself of, because she's expecting you to step to her tune.  This is all about attention and playing victim.
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: Iguanagos on November 05, 2017, 04:18:25 PM
Consider this your get-out-of-jail-free card. she is pulling out the big guns now, waving the threat of elder abuse in front of you thinking that will work since her earlier ploy did not.

For me, this would be a red line. If anyone, any parent or anyone really, threatened me with elder abuse, for my own protection I would need to cease contact.

I don't see how you not running to the store for her suddenly remembered item can in any way constitute elder abuse. But I do think you may want to consider the risk to you and your family of continuing contact with her.

So if it were me, I would probably see an attorney and say that this is where she was heading, and I want to end contact and make sure my family is protected.

This may be more extreme than what you were wanting to consider, but just wanted you to have some things to think about. IMO, raising the spectre of elder abuse was a grave mistake on her part.
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: Spring Butterfly on November 05, 2017, 04:35:19 PM
She can say anything she want, it has NO teeth. If the item is needed it's up to her as a grown adult to work with her medical team or pharmacy to get the item. If they won't work with her it isn't critical.

Her claims are baseless, empty, threats. And make no mistake, that *is* a threat, and one not to take lightly but not for the reason you think. The reason to take anste back is if she willing to throw the law at you, threaten you with prosecution, she is someone to stay far far away from to protect yourself and your family. She will stop at nothing therefore you are forced to keep your involvement on the very fringes if at all because if you get too close you may do something that puts you at risk.

For example if she's willing to threaten elder abuse for failing to get her what she wants, for failure to jump when she commands jump, then what happens if you're in the house alone and she falls or takes a tumble? What if in her mind you wanted her to fall or she imagines you tripped her? Scary stuff.

Lease proceed with caution and take a screen shot of that message for your records.
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: WomanInterrupted on November 05, 2017, 05:36:50 PM
I'd definitely start keeping records of her threats to report you for elder abuse.

BTW - refusing to go to the store is NOT elder abuse!   :roll:

I wouldn't respond to her *empty threat.*

If she were ever to report you, she'd LOSE you for good - it wouldn't be in your best interest to have anything to do with her, and WHY on earth would she want somebody around that she considers abusive!?

Her "logic" makes no sense.   :stars:
 
She's upping her game and *trying harder* in response to your NO.

Please don't give her the satisfaction, and turn your phone OFF - she can't threaten you if she can't reach you.   :)

 :hug:
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: wisingup on November 05, 2017, 05:52:34 PM
I'm pretty sure elder abuse requires you to actually "do" something to her, not refuse to do something!
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: VividImagination on November 05, 2017, 07:08:39 PM
That would be the final straw for me. My boundary would be no more physical or face to face contact. If I remember correctly, hasn't your mother accused of physical abuse in the past after hurting herself? Something to do with attempting bruise her own arm?
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: jennsc85 on November 05, 2017, 09:14:12 PM
I can almost feel myself starting to hyperventilate...

I just sent my mother an email. It was kind of lengthy but I think it was mostly void of emotion and there was nothing damning in it.

I told her that when I tell her "No" I expect her to respect that. I told her that I will not continue to be called abusive, controlling, manipulative, etc.

I told her that the most important relationship in my life is the one I have with my children, and her abuse accusations and endless texting, etc. are jeopardizing that relationship and I will not let that continue to happen.

I also added in there that her accusation of elder abuse is not something I take lightly. I told her that it makes me very hesitant to continue to help her whether or not it was said in the heat of the moment, because battling an elder abuse claim is something that would take its toll on my family and that's not something I wish to deal with. I also couldn't help but say that I'm not her legal caregiver and not legally responsible for her.

I told her I need a break from her for several days and I'm sorry if it's convenient but something that I need to do for my hhealth and my family's health and that I would get back into contact with her when I'm able to.

I can't help feeling like this was a mistake. I just don't want to keep ignoring the things she says and acting like they were never said. I felt like they had to be addressed. I'm going to block her number tonight and I am so nervous.
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: moglow on November 05, 2017, 09:24:18 PM
Well, you said what you needed to say.  That elder abuse comment would have hit me pretty hard - always remember she put that out there, in spite of her repeated attacks on you.  She's projecting, but again, that's not your stuff.  Go ahead and block her number so she doesn't blow up your phone with texts, but be aware she's probably going to respond to that email.  You DO NOT have to explain further, justify yourself, take up her argument  or defend any decision you've made for yourself and your family.  She can, and likely will be mad. You aren't responsible for her feelings, but you do have to take care of yourself regardless of her decisions. 

Hold tight to your family.  Breathe in the silence from her incessant phone calls and texts. Get and stay busy with your own family and friends, and take the focus off constantly trying to appease your mother.
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: wisingup on November 05, 2017, 09:36:33 PM
Jenn - big step, way to go!!!  So very proud of you. 
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: jennsc85 on November 05, 2017, 09:38:36 PM
Moglow- You know what's funny? She actually texted me a couple hours after the elder abuse comment and told me that she was sorry for getting so "personal" but that next time I needed to "think" before I texted her.

Me! I need to think before I text! Seriously?! All I said was that I couldn't pick up her something!!

Then she said that she has a difficult time accepting that I dislike her but she appreciates all my help.

I didn't respond to either of these texts. But I just need a break from this. I can't keep ignoring the things she says and then letting her continue on and do it again and again.

I used to respond to her mean texts with things equally mean. Then I graduated to ignoring  her but ignoring I feel like just makes her think that what she's saying is ok and that she can continue saying it.

I don't know. I just am so worried about that email. I have never initialed a "break" from her. The only breaks I've had in my life are short silent treatments from her.
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: jennsc85 on November 05, 2017, 09:41:59 PM
That would be the final straw for me. My boundary would be no more physical or face to face contact. If I remember correctly, hasn't your mother accused of physical abuse in the past after hurting herself? Something to do with attempting bruise her own arm?

Yes, you are correct. Several years ago when she slapped me in the face and I told her I should call the police she made motions of bruising her wrist and asked what I thought the police would have to say about her having bruises on her wrist from me "grabbing" her.

Why that wasn't the final straw, I have no idea.

I'm so tired of all of this. And the elder abuse claim really upset me. The last thing I want is to be roped into something like that. I'm not her caregiver or legally responsible for her but she sent me a link to "what is elder abuse" and it says if a caregiver OR someone who is assumed to be trusted by the elder, refuses to do something (neglects the needs of the elder) that is a form of elder abuse.

Just by virtue of being her daughter do I fall into the category of a trusted person in her life? That's scary.
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: HotCocoa on November 05, 2017, 09:50:44 PM
No, you don't fall into that category by refusing to pick her up something at the store.  I believe this is part of what is going here with her sending you that link.

DARVO - Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender.

Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: Malini on November 05, 2017, 09:58:10 PM
The email is really well worded. You're slowly taking back a bit of control, even if it doesn't feel like it. My favourite bit is the ending - that you'll contact her when YOU'RE able to. It's clear, non-foggy, and gives you the option of choosing how and when you recontact her.

It would be great if you managed to turn your phone off and do something nice for yourself or with your family now to give your body  and mind a chance to get a breather and come down from being on high alert and in maxi adrenaline mode for the last couple of days.

 :hug:


Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: VividImagination on November 05, 2017, 10:00:39 PM
by a caregiver or another person in a relationship involving an expectation of trust

You are not her caregiver, and the email you sent was a GREAT insurance policy against ever being called that.

The "person in a relationship involving an expectation of trust" refers to nursing homes, paid caregivers, assistants, attorneys, etc. People that would physically or financially abuse an older person. If it meant adult child it would say adult child.

Let's break it down this way, Jenn...let's say I'm your daughter's kindergarten teacher and she is demanding I put her in my car and take her to McDonalds because she is hungry. I refuse, as she has lunch at school that is perfectly fine. Is this neglect? Abuse? Elder abuse and child abuse are not far from each other, and what pertains to one can often be compared to the other, except financial.

Whatever your mother "needed" from the store was not a necessity...she wanted it, or she wanted more of it. If it was that gall-durned important, she would have remembered it when you went to the store.

It's a bluff. She's pulling out the big guns to get you back in line and it backfired. She will figure out how to take care of herself, just like she did the other day.

You can't abuse someone that you don't see or talk to. You did the right thing. You always panic when you set a new boundary, and you always realize within a day or two that this dog has no teeth, just a big, damn, ugly mouth.

Block her and enjoy your family.
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: Iguanagos on November 05, 2017, 11:23:48 PM
This feels terrifying, because you’re saying no to someone who always had power over you.  But she doesn’t have power, except for the residue still hanging around in your mind.  The more you are able to draw and enforce boundaries that work for you, the smaller and smaller that residue of power will be.

As others have said, and as your own email said, you are taking a break.  So truly, give yourself that break and block her for a while.  As long as you are hyper vigilant, anxiously checking your phone for her texts, you aren’t really “on break”.  She’s still front and center in your mind.  So I encourage you to do a break, a real break, where she’s blocked from texts and email for a while and you have a chance to exhale and think about other things – I would suggest at least a week or so.  Even that short time will give you back so much of your own power.  You will realize and truly feel that power, and that will help propel you forward into other healthy choices.  Your FOC will become front and center, as it should be.  She will recede into a smaller and smaller space in your mind.  When you do choose to re-engage with her, it will be from a position of calm strength.

I read somewhere that if it helps, think of your parent w/PD as a very tiny person.  Literally, a really tiny person.  They can stomp and scream and threaten all they want, but what can a tiny person really do?  It helps to counteract the conditioning of us, when they were large, omnipotent and all-powerful, and we were tiny helpless children.  So I pass that along in case it helps.  You can do this!
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: raindrop on November 06, 2017, 12:08:01 AM
Jenn, WELL DONE. That was a massive step and yes, you did the right thing. You really did. Ignoring is way better than hitting back - I just realised this recently.
I've always just been a doormat but my brothers both counter my Ms aggression with aggression of their own. They'll have huge fights with her, but they've never been disinherited. Mistreated, yes. But none of the three of us were ever disinherited (as far as I know) until me, just last week. Why? Because i refused to respond to her rage and when I did talk to her, I was as MC as I could manage. I've been puzzling over that and I'm pretty sure it's all about power.
Jenn, when your mother gets you angry and upset it shows her that she still has power over you, and she *loves* that. But if you flat out say, as you've just done, that you won't respond to being tantrummed at, and take back your own rightful power by setting your own terms about when you want to see her, and *sticking* to them... Well, she won't like it, that's for sure. Because she's losing control over you. And that's really a good thing! Now you can start to focus on being your own master. But first, block your mom, enjoy the silence, and have a rest!
:bighug:
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: Spring Butterfly on November 06, 2017, 01:06:12 AM
Wow so awesome! Please do take time to still soothe, make time for healthy self care. Loooong overdue.
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: WomanInterrupted on November 06, 2017, 01:29:14 AM
Jenn, your email was a massive giant leap in the right direction and I have to agree with Vivid -  no matter what she says or does, you have PROOF you're not her caregiver *in your own words.*   :yahoo:

Save her threat, save a copy of your email, save her response and that link - you may need them some day.  You just never know with some people - she's probably just screaming WORDS, but I'm firmly on Team Always Cover Your Ass.   :ninja:

You told her you need a break and what does she do?  Continues to contact you!   :blowup:

Please - block her number for as much time as YOU need.  She doesn't have the RIGHT to keep abusing you.  She is not ENTITLED to run your life, insult you, threaten you, make endless demands, then act like a spoiled child when she doesn't get her way.

YOU have the right to peace and quiet!  YOU have the right to BREATHE without her calling or texting you every two seconds because she can't stand to be alone with her own thoughts.   :yes:

You did it once - you can do it again, but for a longer period - and please be sure to alert work security about your stalker or mentally ill mother, who is getting worse and should not be put through to you, no matter what she claims, because she's desperate for attention and refuses to get help.

I'd say, at the end of a few days, before unblocking her number, reassess your situation - are you enjoying the peace and quiet?  Are you enjoying having your life back?  Are you enjoying not running all over hell and back because she only likes Kroger toilet paper? 

Are you enjoying the FREEDOM of not having her acting like the phone is your electronic collar and leash?   :sunny:

If you are - consider keeping the block in place.  Stasia did it and she seems to be doing *much* better since she made the decision - and I'm still very, very impressed and proud of her.   :)

Your mom WILL figure out things without you - you know she can.  She just likes to manipulate others by screaming and threatening them - you said it yourself.

Well, since you know that's what she does, you know stopping her will involve NO CONTACT and blocking her access.

It's drastic, yes - but people like your mom often force us to take drastic measures to *protect ourselves.*

I promise you - she WILL get on with her life and her first priority, once she realizes she can't get through to you, will be finding Jenn 2.0, who will get sick of her sooner than later, so she'll find Jenn 3.0, 4.0, 5.0 - and so on.  She will *always* be able to snow some poor soul into helping her, overstep her boundaries, and move on to the next person.

That's just how people like your mom roll - and I saw the same thing with unBPD Didi.  She went through people like most of us go through tissues during allergy season, and when they eventually dropped her like a hot potato, it was always *their fault.*   :roll:

She WILL be okay - for the next few days, next week, next month, next year - next *ten years.*   :yes:

She will be FINE without you. 

And you will THRIVE without her constantly bashing you over the head, to keep you off-balance and *compliant to her whims.*

I am SO proud of you, Jenn!   :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :dance: :groovey:

 :hug:

Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: Terichan on November 06, 2017, 01:34:08 AM
I agree, you're doing great. You've spoken your mind, told her what you need to say, and taken action as well (refusing to bow to her endless demands, not answering her incessant texts, not caving when she pulled out her threat of "elder abuse", as well as blocking her on your phone). You're not just saying empty stuff to her, or begging her to stop what she's doing -- you're showing her that you're not gonna take this any more, in word and in deed. You're showing her that YOU have changed. She's pushed you past your breaking point. And things aren't going to go back to the way they were before.

And a big ol' yeah that to what everyone else said, take your break from her and use it to recover from her abuse, her manipulating, her threatening. Take that huge step back from your exhausting, demanding mother and focus on your FOC, the people who should be the focus of your life, your energy, your love. And that includes yourself! Your husband needs you and especially your small children need you, but don't forget that you need you too. And with your mother out of the forefront of your life, you can get you back.

Huge hugs. Your mother has exhausted me, and all I did was read your posts! We're all here, standing with you to give you strength and healing.
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: FromTheSwamp on November 06, 2017, 01:38:47 AM
Jenn, your reply to her was beautiful.  Now I'd follow it up with a big heaping dose of time to yourself. 
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: SunnyMeadow on November 06, 2017, 11:10:10 AM
I can't help feeling like this was a mistake. I just don't want to keep ignoring the things she says and acting like they were never said. I felt like they had to be addressed. I'm going to block her number tonight and I am so nervous.

Your email to her is excellent - I'm so proud of you! I hope you block her number for more than one night though. Block her until Wednesday  :upsidedown:

She isn't worrying about how to word any reply to you, she isn't worried about your feelings when she's being toxic to you. Please don't worry about her.
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: jennsc85 on November 06, 2017, 11:38:55 AM
Her number is blocked. My plan is to keep it blocked for a couple days. I hope I'm able to do it. I feel so nervous but I have to keep asking myself "What can she really DO to me?" I come up with all these possibilities and I'm trying to tell myself how unlikely they are.

I feel good about the email I sent (if she even read it). I feel like she needed to be called out on the things she says and that she needs to realize she can't just throw around threats and allegations and have me write it off as her just being upset or emotional like I always do.
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: moglow on November 06, 2017, 12:44:09 PM
She can't force you to take care of her, drive her or hold her hand.  Now that she's thrown out the elder abuse comment, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever for her to suggest or demand anything further along those lines.  What *does* make sense is you taking a step back here, and you're doing that.

You are not wrong and never will be wrong for laying down boundaries that protect you and your family.
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: Fiasco on November 06, 2017, 01:51:41 PM
Her number is blocked. My plan is to keep it blocked for a couple days. I hope I'm able to do it. I feel so nervous but I have to keep asking myself "What can she really DO to me?" I come up with all these possibilities and I'm trying to tell myself how unlikely they are.

I feel good about the email I sent (if she even read it). I feel like she needed to be called out on the things she says and that she needs to realize she can't just throw around threats and allegations and have me write it off as her just being upset or emotional like I always do.

 :cheers: :yourock: :waveline:
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: blues_cruise on November 06, 2017, 02:08:53 PM
That would be the final straw for me. My boundary would be no more physical or face to face contact. If I remember correctly, hasn't your mother accused of physical abuse in the past after hurting herself? Something to do with attempting bruise her own arm?

Yes, you are correct. Several years ago when she slapped me in the face and I told her I should call the police she made motions of bruising her wrist and asked what I thought the police would have to say about her having bruises on her wrist from me "grabbing" her.

Why that wasn't the final straw, I have no idea.

 :o That's terrible. :hug:

Her number is blocked. My plan is to keep it blocked for a couple days. I hope I'm able to do it. I feel so nervous but I have to keep asking myself "What can she really DO to me?" I come up with all these possibilities and I'm trying to tell myself how unlikely they are.

I feel good about the email I sent (if she even read it). I feel like she needed to be called out on the things she says and that she needs to realize she can't just throw around threats and allegations and have me write it off as her just being upset or emotional like I always do.

The chances are that she will just stew in her own anger and disbelief that she is finally losing control over you, as that's what it's all about. Even if any of scenarios you are imagining did come up, I can guarantee you that you would get through to the other side. It probably feels terrifying at the moment because she's brought you up to tend to her every whim and as a child it would have felt like you had to do so in order to avoid her wrath. You don't need this coping mechanism as an adult though and you don't have to answer to anyone but yourself. Your children and your health need to be your top priority, not her. If you get back in contact and she's still threatening you then you are more than entitled to take a break again until she's willing to be more reasonable. You really are doing the right thing. :hug: 
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: daughterofbpd on November 06, 2017, 04:20:18 PM
 That email was great, Jenn. Good job. :cheer:
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: jennsc85 on November 06, 2017, 10:26:54 PM
I've had her blocked for the entire day and this may sound completely ridiculous to someone who doesn't have a parent with a PD but...

Aside from the guilt I feel, I really haven't felt this peaceful in a very long time.

The other times I've gone a day, two, three without talking to her, it was initiated by HER and I was sitting there waiting and waiting and dreading her getting back into contact with me.

This is the first time I've ever initiated it on my own. It was a really odd but nice feeling to be able to eat lunch at work without responding to 10 texts about my mother's health problems and questions. It was amazing to be able to do something as little as cooking dinner without worrying about my phone beeping with her incessant texts. It was almost unreal to be able to help my daughter with her homework and talk to my kids and my husband without the fear of my mother in the back of my head.

She has literally taken up every piece of my life, some without me realizing it. I hope I can keep this up for another couple days.
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: VividImagination on November 06, 2017, 10:33:50 PM
She has literally taken up every piece of my life, some without me realizing it. I hope I can keep this up for another couple days.

Every time the guilt creeps in tell yourself, "I'm taking MY LIFE back." Imagine it as a huge expanse of floor that has been covered in a tarry black slime.  Then imagine yourself and your FOC in one little corner with a sponge and a spray bottle of Lysol, scrubbing until it's white and gleaming. If you stop, the slime will engulf you, your kids, your DH and just.keep.going. Your life. Just keep scrubbing until that ENTIRE floor is yours. You can do it.
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: Spring Butterfly on November 06, 2017, 11:35:05 PM
Jenn, it's been a long time coming and that sounds absolutely glorious! It must feel really good to finally be able to breathe!! Live life!!
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: WomanInterrupted on November 07, 2017, 01:17:39 AM
Well done, Jenn!   ;D

It feels different because she's not giving you the ST and you're not giving her the ST - you put up a boundary to protect yourself.   There's no anger involved - just self-preservation.  :)

Sure, you may have been angry when you did it, but your anger was a *catalyst* for this positive change!   :cheer:

It really IS amazing to realize just how much people like your mom creep in like an invasive species and take over your every waking moment with their endless demands and complaints!    :stars:

In moments of quiet, you realize, "My mom really IS the human equivalent of kudzu!  I'd better start cutting that stuff back before I'm trapped inside it, forever!"   :aaauuugh:

By cutting it back, I mean putting up MORE boundaries.

However...I think I'd KEEP this boundary (the phone block) in place *permanently.* 

YOU can make this feeling of peace LAST.  You can eat lunch, make dinner, help your DD with her homework ALL without interruption *if you want to.*

For me, those would be REALLY big motivators.   :cloud9:

So...at least consider extending it another week.  At the end of that week, consider adding on another week - and if you weaken, go back and read her last texts about elder abuse.  It might scare you enough to reconsider removing the block!

BTW...if you decide to extend it, don't tell her.  The boundary is FOR YOU and *not*  her, because she can't change and won't respond to boundaries.  You've already seen how well that goes.   :mad: :bawl: :dramaqueen: :pissed: :bawl: :dramaqueen: :dramaqueen:

Personally, I wouldn't give her another chance.  I'd cut my losses and savor my life without her.

You're ALLOWED to do that.  You just have to give yourself permission!   :yes:

 :hug:

Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: Terichan on November 07, 2017, 01:23:26 AM
It was a really odd but nice feeling to be able to eat lunch at work without responding to 10 texts about my mother's health problems and questions. It was amazing to be able to do something as little as cooking dinner without worrying about my phone beeping with her incessant texts. It was almost unreal to be able to help my daughter with her homework and talk to my kids and my husband without the fear of my mother in the back of my head.

That's awesome! And this is what your life, your own life, is supposed to feel like. How it should be. How it should be all the time. By actively blocking your mother you're finally getting to experience what it can be like. And this is after only one day! WI's right, you can make this feeling, this freedom, last as long as you want it to. It's your choice, not your mother's.

Hang onto this feeling! Imagine what your life will be without your mother sucking all of your energy out of you on a daily basis -- you can totally do this!!
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: bopper on November 07, 2017, 01:50:59 PM
Moglow- You know what's funny? She actually texted me a couple hours after the elder abuse comment and told me that she was sorry for getting so "personal" but that next time I needed to "think" before I texted her.


Next time she texts you....wait a loooong time. Then if she says "Why aren't you responding" then you say "I'm thinking"   :cool2:

You can now decide if you want contact or no contact.
If you to decide on limited contact then you say "It is clear to me that you are not happy with the level of assistance I give you.  You need to get an aide that will help you with daily chores. I cannot do that anymore."
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: bohemian butterfly on November 07, 2017, 02:15:57 PM
Her number is blocked. My plan is to keep it blocked for a couple days. I hope I'm able to do it. I feel so nervous but I have to keep asking myself "What can she really DO to me?" I come up with all these possibilities and I'm trying to tell myself how unlikely they are.



 :yourock: :fireworks: :boogie: :cascade: :cheer: :chickendance: :banana: :elephant: :fireworks: :party: :woot: :waveline:

Great work!!!!  Sooo happy for you!!!   Enjoy the peace, you TOTALLY deserve it!!!!!!   
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: jennsc85 on November 07, 2017, 02:36:03 PM
Thanks for the encouragement, you guys! I have her number blocked today still and was planning on keeping it that way until tomorrow...

I guess sitting at work makes me overthink and worry because I've come up with endless possibilities of what she's planning to get back at me. She did not ever respond to my email.

My grandpa texted me during my lunch and asked me to call him after work regarding something with my mom. I asked him if I should be worried and he said he didn't know.

Now I'm shaking I'm so nervous about what he is going to tell me. She's probably told him what she's planning. Should I unblock her number to see if she texts something? I'm so nervous about what he has to tell me.
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: Fiasco on November 07, 2017, 02:45:00 PM
Please don’t reward her frenzied push to get your attention by giving her attention. You are not a surgeon or an ER doctor or even a psychiatrist! You’re Jennsc85 and you’re doing great. We’re rooting for you!
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: VividImagination on November 07, 2017, 03:02:04 PM
1. She texted you back after the elder abuse comment because she realized she finally went too far . She was afraid of losing her slave, so she went into damage control. But then of course, she managed to blame HER bad behavior on you.

2. She is using your grandfather as a flying monkey. Don't fall for it. She will learn that next time she crosses a boundary all she has to do is cry to Daddy that defective daughter is no longer functioning and he will fix it by bringing you in line.

He doesn't know if something is wrong with her? Really? What a misleading statement meant to instill FOG. If there was something wrong with her, he'd know...she'd have screamed it at him in detail.

Ignore it. Your body is begging you (shaking, anxiety) not to engage with this toxicity. If something happens to your mother, she can call 911. She has before and can do so again. Keep that phone blocked and ignore your grandfather for a few days. He's safely taken care of, and your mother needs a crash course in growing the hell up.
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: WomanInterrupted on November 07, 2017, 03:04:56 PM
Don't unblock her - and don't respond to him.  This is nothing more than a cheap ploy and a way around your phone block - which I'd now keep in place for a minimum of a week.

If she'd going to use your grandfather - and I do mean USE - as a messenger, you might want to consider restricting or blocking him, too.

You're worried about her plotting her revenge - there is NOTHING she can do to you.

Not a thing. 

Think about it.  What can she realistically DO to get back at you?

If she does manage to come up with some sort of half-assed plan intended to hurt or smear you, it's only going to make you pull away MORE and not get back into your Dutiful Doormat box.

Any plan she concocts probably isn't well thought-out and will have quite a few negative consequences for her.

Keep that in mind.  *She's* the one who will suffer the consequences of her rage.

Your mom is taking your, "NO" as "try harder."

Please don't fall for it.

This is all about her need to be in CONTROL.  She calls the shots!  Not you! 

All she has are words and empty threats - and you don't have to hear them from her or your grandfather, whom she's using as a Flying Messenger Monkey.

Stay the course.  Keep breathing.  You've GOT this.   :)

 :hug:
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: Terichan on November 07, 2017, 03:29:02 PM
My grandpa texted me during my lunch and asked me to call him after work regarding something with my mom. I asked him if I should be worried and he said he didn't know.

Now I'm shaking I'm so nervous about what he is going to tell me.

Ugh, this is so manipulative. Your mother is totally using your grandfather to sneak around your phone block, he might or might not know you blocked her but she sure does and she's using him as a tool to get to you. And look what it's done to you already, you're nervous and worried and shaking once again. And yeah, I call BS on him "not knowing" if you should be worried or not. Total BS. This is a trap. Don't fall into it.

I wouldn't respond to your grandfather either, or if you feel you have to say something, let him know that you're NOT going to discuss anything about your mother with him. Period, end of story.

Your mother is already testing your boundaries. Don't let them break, keep them up, remember the peace you felt yesterday, don't let your mother using your grandfather as a flying monkey destroy that peace. You still deserve your own life free from your mother's incessant demands, that hasn't changed just because she's recruited her father into this whole mess. STAY STRONG!
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: bohemian butterfly on November 07, 2017, 03:35:55 PM
Agree with everyone.  Please don't fall for it!  Total flying monkey! 

You are free Jenn, you are a free human.  You do not belong to anyone in your FOO. 

Sending you love and strength right now.  You can do it!!!  You are free!  She can't hurt you, she is powerless!!!!!

 :udawoman:
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: bohemian butterfly on November 07, 2017, 03:42:32 PM
One more thing......

I remembered that you posted in "PD elderly family members."  In your post, you wrote, My grandfather (her dad) is likely N as well and he has enabled my mother for her entire life. Financially, emotionally, and otherwise. He was not always very nice about it but he has always been there to pick up the pieces of her life.

That is your answer right there.  He is doing what he has always done...........

Sending you strength and love!!!  Remember, regardless of how you feel, you have more power than you think and you really and truly are free!!!
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: Amadahy on November 07, 2017, 04:23:25 PM
Protect you and your FOC fiercely, Jenn.  You deserve a happy, peaceful life.  ❤️
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: moglow on November 07, 2017, 04:29:14 PM
Jenn, you can just not discuss your mother with him, and refuse to be *their* go-between as well. Tell him flat out you aren't going to discuss that relationship with him, then subject change "so tell me about your garden..." If he's always enabled her, odds are since you've gone silent with her this is just more of the same. To put it another way, it may be time to make some much needed changes for your own sake, let them figure out their own.

Just because the monkeys fly doesn't mean you have to give them a soft place to land. ;)
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: VividImagination on November 07, 2017, 04:40:04 PM
And it also means that he probably wants to get you back into your role so she'll stop badgering HIM.
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: DaisyGirl77 on November 07, 2017, 07:31:59 PM
Thanks for the encouragement, you guys! I have her number blocked today still and was planning on keeping it that way until tomorrow...

I guess sitting at work makes me overthink and worry because I've come up with endless possibilities of what she's planning to get back at me. She did not ever respond to my email.

My grandpa texted me during my lunch and asked me to call him after work regarding something with my mom. I asked him if I should be worried and he said he didn't know.

Now I'm shaking I'm so nervous about what he is going to tell me. She's probably told him what she's planning. Should I unblock her number to see if she texts something? I'm so nervous about what he has to tell me.

This jumped out at me.  "If you don't know what's wrong with her, neither do I.  If she has an issue, she needs to talk to her doctor."
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: Iguanagos on November 07, 2017, 09:42:20 PM
This may seem counterintuitive, but I view your grandpa's sudden involvement as a positive. It's a sign that you are having success drawing boundaries with your M, and she was digging deeper into her resources to try desperately to force you back into your place. So please don't be discouraged, be encouraged!  As they say, it's always darkest just before dawn.

This is when it's hardest, when you're making progress but your anxieties are pegging the meter. Hang in there, as others have said, you are doing just the right thing.

Please don't give into these attempts to get you back in your "place".

I agree that a short period of NC, like a week or so, from both your mother and grandfather, would do wonders for your perspective. You would be able to see and truly feel that the world did in fact not end and that everything and everybody got by just fine.  As we all say, you've got this!
Title: Re: The surgery saga continues
Post by: VividImagination on November 07, 2017, 10:06:53 PM
I agree that a short period of NC, like a week or so, from both your mother and grandfather, would do wonders for your perspective. You would be able to see and truly feel that the world did in fact not end and that everything and everybody got by just fine.  As we all say, you've got this!

Fabulous advice. Jenn, you are a rock star. I know I speak for everyone here when I say how very, very proud we are of you. You have done wonders and have come so far, even though it may not seem that way at times. Take a nice long break from her, banish her from your mind when she pops up, and start a new thread to tell us about life on the other side of normal.