Out of the FOG

Hi,
I am 21-year old female psychology student and I am dealing with a problematic friend. I ended our friendship before summer break because I felt uncomfortable. With the help of my family I also realized that this friend was emotionally abusing me.
We are also in the same class at college, we both study psychology. This year I have noticed that she always sits behind me in the classroom. She stares at me, my notebooks and my phone all the time. In the beginning of this month I noticed her walking around the building I live in. Last week, I started noticing weird things about my apartment. The door was locked only once (I always lock twice), the candle was lit and the heating was on when I came home. Next week the apple cider was missing from my fridge. I realized that the spare key from my apartment went missing. I believe that this friend took the key  on one of her visits and that she comes to my apartment when I am not home. I live alone in this apartment. No one else had the chance to take the key.
I suspected this friend has the dependant personality disorder. I ended the friendship because it bothered me that she always follows me around. Now I can't get rid of her. We can change the locket, but she will continue with sitting behind me in class, staring at me and so on. What should I do?

Thank you for your answers.

Oh my gosh!  That is scary.   I am so sorry this is happening to you.    Please change the lock ASAP.   There are wireless video camera systems available (Google Arlo) that might give you piece of mind.   

Tell campus security and go to the police. Sit away from her. Tell the professor of the classes you share and come in after class starts so you can sit away from her. Do not let this slide. Keep your personal belongings away from her so she doesn't steal or copy them. Get an escort home or move. I am not kidding. You may not have anything to fear, but why put up with that? This is your life and you seem to live in a free country. Get others around you to support you. Look up your local stalking laws. Where I live you would have legal right to go to the police and file a report based on what you just wrote here.

Thank you for your answers.
The police in my country won't do anything if I don't have any proof. They would just laugh at me.
My parents bought the security camera, but they said they will change the lock after one week if there is nothing unusual. They say I just have to accept the whole situation and that I can't avoid her. But it is hard. I want her to be brought to justice.
I am so angry. It's not fair that someone just walks in your apartment and doesn't get punished.
I guess I just have to accept the fact I can't do anything about this friend, no matter what.

I highly and strongly recommend The Gift of Fear.  The author specializes in helping people in stalking situations and addresses his agency's various approaches in his book.  What might seem like the most intuitive approach actually might not be, and vice versa.  Very worthwhile reading.

If she has a key, it's presumed she has the right to enter. Unless she lives there, change the locks - don't wait for permission and dont think you need to explain your choices to anyone.

You can't avoid her or control where she sits in class but you can most assuredly limit or eliminate any personal interaction with her. Do that. Care for yourself first.

Is it possible for you to sit in the back row of class, so she can't sit behind you?  Or as someone else suggested, come in later and possibly sit where you're surrounded by people who could be a buffer.

Another option is to befriend some other folks in your class, so that you have some support.  I find situations where I'm uncomfortable with someone less frightening if I'm not alone so the person can't approach me.  Also, abusive and emotionally manipulative behaviour mostly happens in private, so there's only so much she can do if she can't get you alone.

Change your email passwords and all other passwords now.    If she's been in your house, she may have learned how to access your passwords.

Thank you for your help. I now sit in the last row in the class when it's possible. I avoid any contact with her, I don't even look in her direction. The camera is also set in the apartment and will record her in the moment she walks in. The passwords are changed too.
Unfortunately she started following me when I walk to school. I don't believe she's dangerous, but this is really annoying because I need to go to school. And there's only one way from my apartment to school. I don't know why she's walking here, she lives in another part of the town and this location must be really out of the way for her.
Lastly, thank you for the book recommendation. Sounds like interesting reading and I will read this as soon as possible.

I'm so sorry you're going through this! Before I was stalked I never could have imagined how terrifying it is. She might be harmless, but there's really no way to know. And the fact that she's acting with such blatant disregard about your well-being and with such minimal self-control is alarming.

I love the idea of sitting in the back or going to class late. The camera is also a good touch. I highly recommend changing your passwords and turning on 2-step verification where you can. I recommend moving as well.

My experience from talking to the police is that it's best to have documentation telling her that her attention is unwanted. If you have an email where you tell her, "Leave me alone. I don't want you in or near my appartment. I don't want you near or talking to me." Then you'll have documentation that you didn't "lead her on" (which is what my stalker accused me of doing). Keep any emails she writes in reply and take them to the police.

But you need to make sure you're safe first! Can you stay with family or friends until you get your locks changed? Can you drive to school, walk with a friend, or car-pool? Is there a spot on your walk where others are around so you can stop to take a photo of her following you?

Like I said, some stalkers are harmless, but some are extremely dangerous and either way stalking can cause PTSD so you need to keep yourself safe!

Quote from: psychology.student on November 13, 2018, 04:44:39 PM
Unfortunately she started following me when I walk to school. I don't believe she's dangerous, but this is really annoying because I need to go to school. And there's only one way from my apartment to school. I don't know why she's walking here, she lives in another part of the town and this location must be really out of the way for her.

This is very concerning. It's not just stalking, it's also an act of intimidation. I think Zen Warrior's suggestion about the email is a good one, and you may want to forward your email to campus security. I'd recap that you reported this girl's behavior (including date), you have installed a camera in your home, and are changing the locks. Also, include that she is now following you to school daily, despite living across town. Be clear that you find this frightening and you are concerned for your safety. By doing so, you put it on record with campus security that you brought this issue to their attention in writing, something that will make them more likely to pay attention (since there is now a legal record of your complaint).

I'm with others who have posted here: You should take every precaution to protect yourself before anything happens.

The situation is getting really terrifying. Everyday after the class I wait for her to leave the classroom before me, so she wouldn't walk behind me on my way home. For the last two school days (last thursday and now monday) she waited in the hall or outside the school for me to come past her. When I did, she started to walk behind me. On thursday I went to the toilet to escape from her and today I called my mother and told that I'll meet her in 5 minutes. I managed to escape, at some point she stopped following me, but it was a terrifying experience.

The problem is that I can't tell her to leave me alone - she's my schoolmate and she could just say that she was just going her own way and didn't follow me. And I haven't got any letters or e-mails from her as a proof.

The worst thing is that I sometimes think whether these situations are merely a coincidence. I don't even know if I could believe myself that she's doing all of this on purpose. Also my family and my friend too don't know if she's really stalking me or is this all just a coincidence. The whole situation is just absurd. But my guts are telling me to be afraid. In my country, we have no laws against stalking and I can't go to the police without the proof. Should I tell my schoolmates about the situation? I'm afraid they wouldn't believe me since she's been really nice to them for the last two months.

I would recommend trusting your gut. If you haven't changed the locks on your apartment, you should do so immediately. Also, you might want to change your route when you leave class or when going home. Go in the opposite direction or to the library or student hall or some other place with a lot of people. Or take a taxi home for a while.

If she is still following you home, you can do an old trick my policeman uncle taught me when on the street and feeling anxious about someone: Turn around and look the person following you straight in the face and wait until they walk past you before proceeding. This lets the person know that you are aware they are there and that you are on alert. We tend to look away from things that threaten or frighten us, especially as women.

Quote from: psychology.student on November 19, 2018, 04:26:11 PM
The worst thing is that I sometimes think whether these situations are merely a coincidence. I don't even know if I could believe myself that she's doing all of this on purpose. Also my family and my friend too don't know if she's really stalking me or is this all just a coincidence.

This is one of the reasons stalking is so detrimental and why I'm still suffering from PTSD from being stalked a decade ago. Her behavior is NOT normal. It's happening too frequently to be a coincidence. It doesn't matter that you're in the same school - there aren't any other students following you everywhere so why is she?

When I first talked to the cops they told me to start documenting. Keep an email or a notebook with you at all times for this reason. Whenever she's around write down the time, date, and situation (such as, "following me home"). When I did this it helped me see that there was NO way it was all a coincidence - It was happening more frequently than I'd consciously realized. And when I took it to the police they took it seriously.

I've used the tactic OpenSky mentioned - I didn't know cops recommend it, but it really works! There are always multiple exits and routes. If she's following you, turn around and change your route. Don't go anywhere alone and private.

I can't tell you how many people minimized my experience with my stalker ("he's harmless"). Even after he carved my name into one of his many guns. There is really no way of knowing which stalkers are harmless and which are dangerous, but all are detrimental to the psyche of their victims. After 4 years of being stalked I met 6 women who accused my stalker of rape.

Please take your gut seriously and keep yourself safe.

Hi,
Thank you for your advice. The problem is still going on, today I saw this person walking around my block and later she was waiting outside the shop I normally go to at that time. So I didn't go to the shop today.
I befriended some girls in my class. I told them I am being stalked. They are really nice, we go to lunch together and they live near me, so they usually walk me home now, except Mondays and Tuesdays because we don't share some of the courses. One of them also found out by herself who my stalker is and I feel easier now that I know others can notice it too.
Alternating routes and changing the time for lunch is also more or less successful.
It's just hard because this is going on for the third month now. And she's inventing new ways to get in contact with me, for example, the shop.

You need to report her to campus security.  You have notes from the time she is stalking you.  It may seem inconsequential, but universities are under pressure to keep students and campuses safe.  The thing about this stalker, there is no way to know if she will take action to harm you or otherwise interfere with your life.  Even if they say they can do nothing, insist that a report is filed. 

I have had a stalker in the past, years ago.  I finally got sick of it and reamed him out.  He was a chicken and after me yelling at him, he decided to move on.  Even though he disappeared (he was living with my ex-husband) it took awhile for me to relax my vigilance.

Ask your new friends to come with you to the shop, take a taxi to and from if they can not make it, or look for another shop to go to at different times of the day.

Absolutely trust your gut on this one. The more people you tell the better.

I agree with everyone else that you need to change your locks, document everything and report her to security - every time it happens if necessary. The thing that alarmed me whilst reading through all the posts, is that she is adapting her behaviour. Yes you have found new friends and have changed your seating arrangements, but as you said she has now just found a new way to bump into you by going to the shop. That to me seems like a sign that she is not going to give this up easily. Some of her attempts have been stopped so rather than giving it up or the fascination with you lessening, she has just become more determined to see you and has thought of new more inventive ways of doing that. That's a worry. You need to take this seriously. I'm sorry that some people around you aren't taking this seriously. This is not normal behaviour. You need to protect yourself.

Mayaberry, I agree with you. At the beginning I thought that she would see that I don't want to have any contact with her and she would stop doing this. But it looks like she won't stop. There have been many new incidents in past month. I constantly look behind me when I go home from school and I didn't see her. I always wait for her to leave the school first so she wouldn't follow me. But then I came to the shop and suddenly she was three steps after me. She must have waited somewhere. She went to the shop few steps behind me. She stood behind me when I was taking my yoghurt. She followed me all the way home to my building. I think she didn't even buy anything.
She also went to the exams at the same days as me.
She sat behind me and pushed her phone down the table so I would be forced to pick it up and give it to her. I didn't do it.
Now the new semester is coming and there will be plenty of group work. I'm afraid that she will end up in my group because there usually need to be groups of four and we are only three. She doesn't have anybody and the assistant will put her in our group. I can't work with her. Should I tell the assistant? And what to tell him? Since this is a very unusual story, what if he doesn't believe me and think I'm weird?
I also blocked her on Facebook, but if we work together, I will have to unblock her.
I'm having nightmares about her and I just can't stop thinking about this. I constantly check the cars and people who walk nearby. I just want this to stop. At the police they said they can't do anything and we don't even have campus security.

OK, maybe the police can't do anything yet. Stalking laws are terrible generally but you definitely need to keep a record of everything so that, God forbid, if it does get to a point where you can have her charged with something, you have a record of a pattern of behaviour over a long period of time. At that point, they would then take it in to consideration when considering a punishment.
I think you do need to speak to the assistant and explain that you cannot work with this girl. You don't need to go in to huge detail if you don't want to but you should tell them that you have contacted the police about her and that she is stalking you and that it is really important that you are not made to work together. I would hope that they would understand that and be supportive. I think you need to mention the police to them so that they take it seriously and don't just think you've had a bit of a fall out and it's just a small thing that you need to get over. You need to make them see how serious this is.
Does your university have counsellors or a support service for students? Most do. I think you should also go there and get support for this as it is clearly affecting you hugely now. Also, it gives one more layer to evidence if you ever can report her for something.
Keep in touch with everyone here. Your situation is quite concerning.

Hello PS,

Sorry to hear your parents do not take this seriously and think it is just a coincidence. It is not. Waiting for something to happen to change locks is irresponsible. You are not safe as long as she has a key to your apartment.

Trust your instincts. They are there to protect you. If you are feeling anxious, intimidated, gaslighted (what she did in your apartment), having your boundaries violated, losing sleep, then it is serious. This is psychological abuse. Your anger is valid.

She will not stop as long as you are physically proximate to her. She feels triggered when she sees you. This is about having power and control. She knows you are feeling anxious, unease and intimidated. She is in your thoughts. This is what she actually wants to achieve and makes her feel good.

One of their tactics is to tell mutual friends and acquaintances that you said you are being stalked by her and that you must be paranoid or crazy. They try to get in first, before you do it.
Since the PD/stalker plays another role in front of them, people do not get to see her dark side so it is highly likely they believe the PD/stalker.
When you finally tell mutual friends and acquaintances what you are going through, they will usually -but not always- see it as a proof that what the stalker said about you was true - you must paranoid.
After all, the stalker is always nice, kind, calm and collected to them, someone who could never do such a thing like stalking a friend for months, breaking into a her apartment or stealing her belongings.

I agree with Clara's book recommendation (this is a great book) and with other Out of the FOG members' advice. I would also have a look at Cluster B personality disorders. A good support network, a healthy diet, enough sleep and breathing exercises to calm down are important.

My advice:  Do NOT unblock her on FB.  If push comes to shove and you're told you have to (and I'd wait until I was told, if I was you) create a separate FB account for just this assignment, and then when it's done, delete the account.  By unblocking her on FB on your regular account, you're giving her the signal that you're willing to be around her.  I know that's not your intention, but that's how she'll read it.  It will likely cause her to redouble her efforts to get your attention.

If you have to explain to the assistant why you're doing things that way, tell them the truth.  I doubt they'd think you're making it all up when you show them the efforts you're willing to take to protect yourself.  And even if they don't know whether or not to believe you, you've at least gotten the information on the situation to them in a way that relates directly to your assignment and doesn't appear as some random statement you're making in order to get attention. 

If you haven't done so already, please change the locks ASAP. You don't need your parents'  permission to do so.

My advice is to tell the TA about the stalking and that's why you can't be in the same team as this person - make sure to mention you've filed a police report (don't mention they told you they can't do anything). If the TA ignores you, then email the professor (from your college account and make sure you save it in your sent email folder) saying the same things. If the professor ignores it, then email the Chair. Fear of liability can often put the fear of God into these people (the email establishes an electronic paper trail and they know it), and it's not like it would really cost them anything to not have you and this person on the same team, there's no reason for them to take any chances. Don't unblock your stalker for any reason - it's preferable to drop the class or fail the assignment (but it would probably be great grounds for a grade appeal if it affects your overall grade in the class).

Please put your safety first.

Things are getting better. I'm not in the same group with this girl at any of the courses. Before we were forming groups, I emailed the assistant and told her what is happening to me. She was really kind and she understood that I couldn't work with that person.
I also make sure I'm never alone: I go to school, lunch and home together with my schoolmates. I try to come late to class and sit away from her. I go to different shops.
The only thing I miss is my freedom. I'm afraid to go out alone and I hate that I can't just go to the closest shop after school when I need something. I hope one day my stalker will get tired of this and eventually stop following me.
Thank you all for your support.

Hi, I'm responding really late but I wonder how you're doing now.

I was in a similar situation a few years ago, which is how I came to learn about PDs. I cut off a friend who then started sending me angry messages on Facebook, posting about my personal life online, reading my blogs, and started following me around in campus.

I dropped out off a major class and ended up moving to a new city just to stay away from him.  I was getting ready to sue even though it was expensive, but a psychiatrist told me that he likely suffered from BPD (extreme attempts to prevent abandonment) and that I shouldn't initiate contact with this person anymore, not even through a lawyer. Luckily he got married and moved to another country, but even during the first year of his marriage he would message our mutual friends to fish for info whenever he'd see photos of me on their feed.

Dear bluprint,
thank you, I'm feeling much better now. I've started seeing the psychologist who is really understanding and helps me find the courage to tell this girl she should leave me alone. She stopped following me home and to school. I noticed that her parents now drive her to school and pick her up after lessons. Maybe they found out what she's doing and they take care of her. But in the classroom she still stares at me, sometimes she even tries to smile at me with some creepy smile.
I'm sorry to hear about your experience. I believe you felt a great deal of distress. I'm happy for you that your situation got better. Although it is very sad and unfair that you had to move and drop out of your class. How were things at your campus? Did you report his behavior? Did they do anything?

I also agree that you should speak to the assistant, and probably the instructor.  She's really escalating her behaviour, finding ways to keep stalking you.

Have you told her to sod off?  Someone mentioned sending her an email.  I would email her and list all the behaviours that you consider threatening and intimidating - all of them.  Be clear that any similar behaviours that she has not yet committed will also be considered intimidation.  If she persists, you then have evidence that she is choosing to behave in a way she knows is threatening to you.  That might give you grounds to charge her with harassment.  Say you've already informed the police.

I don't want to concern you more, and I hope she is cowardly like others' stalkers.  This is a power play -  show her you're not easily intimidated.  Don't get confrontational, but be calm and firm - pwPDs, if they feel threatened or like you're trying to show you're more powerful than they are, can be unpredictably aggressive and use physical intimidation (not all, but some).  She seems like a victim-type waif from what you've described, so she may be confrontation averse.  But stand your ground - make eye contact with a level gaze like others have suggested.  Maybe keep pepper spray concealed in your coat pocket, if it's legal where you are.

You could also disrupt your behaviour to disrupt hers - ignoring her and carrying on as usual could be sending the message you're too afraid to stand up to her.  If you're not ready to speak directly to her,  you could call someone whenever she follows you and state clearly "I'm at X place, it looks like (stalker) was waiting here for me and now she's following me around the store."  She needs to know you know it's not a coincidence, and it's not acceptable.  PDs do what they think they'll get away with.

Keep yourself safe, and keep getting support. 

I apologize for the irrelevant post - I didn't see the second page of posts, and apparently you can't delete your own posts here.

I'm so glad to hear that things have mostly resolved, and you reached out to people who could support you in keeping her out of your life as much as possible.  It's a huge relief that this didn't escalate further.

It turns out she's not going to stop anyway. This week our student association offered us to join the workshop about dog therapy. I immediately signed up and wrote my name in the google docs table. Next morning I noticed that this girl also signed up for the workshop. She never attends any workshops! And I don't think she even likes dogs!
I'm really interested in the workshop. Should I just give up and not go there? I know it's a coward thing to do but I can't enjoy the workshop if she always tries to come close to me and interact with me.
All those attempts of her make me really tired. She always finds some new way to get to me. And she's clever! I can't accuse her of anything. Every student has the right to join the workshop.

My advice is this: Don't let her stop you from doing the things you like. If you do, you're letting her control you, and that's a slippery slope to losing yourself. When you are there, if she sits close to you, get up and move to a different seat.  Try to pretend that she's not there. And make sure you have a plan ahead of time for getting home.

Good luck! This sounds very aggravating.

She has reasons not to stop.
First, she will not leave you alone as long as you are in the first 4 spheres of influence. Eye line is the second sphere (narcsite.com/2017/04/18/the-spheres-of-influence/ (http://narcsite.com/2017/04/18/the-spheres-of-influence/))
Also, if you have been talking to others about her *and* she found out, this is another reason to hoover and stalk you. As long as she knows that you are speaking about her, she feels she exists.
Plus if she learns she is making your life miserable, she feels powerful. She is controlling you and your life.

Being ignored, not being noticed or seen is what they hate the most. Indifference from others makes them feel they do not exist. This wounds them.

Since it would be unfair to continue your studies at another university or not to attend courses you are interested in, the only thing you can do is to avoid her as much as you can. Avoid direct eye contact when standing or sitting because she will stare at you.

Quote from: psychology.student on May 21, 2019, 03:46:55 PMAll those attempts of her make me really tired.

If she can see you look tired, upset, frustrated due to her behaviour, this is fuel/narcissistic supply (NS). Learn as much as you can about it. Your body language can be NS to her too. Most people think they know what it is but then they say something which shows that they do not fully understand. There is book called Fuel by HG Tudor, a narcissist sociopath. There is a lot of information on his blog narcsite.com.

If she can see you look calm, undisturbed when 'in the eye line sphere', she will not stop completely but she will reduce her attempts to hoover you considerably and will have to find another target who gives her what she wants.

Quote from: psychology.student on May 21, 2019, 03:46:55 PM
I can't accuse her of anything. Every student has the right to join the workshop.

She knows what she is doing. If you tell others about this behaviour, they will think you are the paranoid one, not her.

I agree with openskyblue:

Quote from: openskyblue on May 21, 2019, 07:42:44 PM
My advice is this: Don't let her stop you from doing the things you like. If you do, you're letting her control you, and that's a slippery slope to losing yourself. When you are there, if she sits close to you, get up and move to a different seat.  Try to pretend that she's not there. And make sure you have a plan ahead of time for getting home.

:yeahthat:

I would like to thank all of you for your advice. Sometimes I feel like this is the only place where I'm understood.
I had sessions with two counsellors. The first one told me that I should act like she's a normal schoolmate and look her in the eyes, say hello and maybe even talk to her. I didn't do it and I sought help elsewhere.
The second one doesn't believe me. The first session was ok, but yesterday I had another session and I told that I don't even drink apple cider anymore because it reminds me of someone stealing it from my apartment. And she said: yeah, we can't be sure if that really happened. Then I said she also goes to dog therapy, but never attends any other workshops. And the counsellor said: maybe she just likes dogs! That's not true. Today at workshop she didn't even pet any of them even though we all did.
The dog therapy was ok. I was pretending she's not there and I drive home by car now so I feel much safer.
Today at workshop I noticed there were some older students talking to this girl and saying: it will be okay, don't worry. These same students constantly looked at me like I did something wrong. They didn't accept my friends requests at facebook as well even though we're together in students' association team. This is very strange. I feel like an outcast.
I'm so disappointed about the counselling. I feel like everyone just minimalizes my problem.