Out of the FOG

The Other Sides of Us => Religious & Spiritual Discussion => Topic started by: PinkDress on December 29, 2018, 06:55:39 AM

Title: Bible verses and how God views PDs?
Post by: PinkDress on December 29, 2018, 06:55:39 AM
Worthy of a quick discussion I think, please share your honest insights here. Often I worry I’m somehow disappointing God by keeping the “bad folks” out, maybe I’m not forgiving enough, maybe the problem is me for not trying more, etc. I also know God loves people and doesn’t tolerate abuse, He calls it out and eventually deals with those who refuse to repent. I do believe God is better than we could ever imagine Him being, and He truly will give justice in every situation. I deal with false guilt often.

This evening I came across this scripture and I wondered about it,
“But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.” Luke‬ 6:35‬

So, God is kind to the evil. This just makes me wonder how can we show kindness to the PDs? I recognize that if someone stole from my purse, I would not allow them to be alone with my purse anymore. Showing kindness is not blind trust. Boundaries are good. NMIL dominated with my DD and purposefully sought to hurt me to get to DD, there was a pattern that allows me to see she is not safe for us. I could be kind to my purse thief by anonymously giving them lunch or something of the sort, but their behavior has made it so I cannot trust them. Does my thinking make sense? Basically find other ways to show kindness, with boundaries due to past behaviors.

I also often find that many scriptures end up meaning totally different things than I originally thought with deeper study, and I believe God likes to surprise us like that. I’m just wondering what everyone’s thoughts are on these sorts of subjects in the Christian realm.
Title: Re: Bible verses and how God views PDs?
Post by: Call Me Cordelia on December 29, 2018, 08:47:34 AM
Oh boy the “love your enemies” guilt trip. A flying monkey favorite.

I have to be quick this morning so my Scripture references will be inexact and perhaps my thoughts a bit disjointed. I hope you spend some time in the Bible on your own. It’s so easy to cherrypick a nice sounding verse like “love your enemies” and focus on that, while forgetting the other dozens of books that are just as true and important. I’ll just get you started. God is not a doormat. Even the crucifixion was by his own choice.

Check out the psalms. The end of 63 is a good place to start. David is a “man after God’s own heart” and he prayed for the mouths of liars to be stopped by means of swords and jackals. It’s okay to be angry! It’s okay to want to see them get justice. And swords and jackals fit the bill for liars. ;D

Also hugely helpful to me has been the Gospel about causing these little ones to sin, it would be better for a millstone to be about your neck. Well, it’s awfully kind of you to protect them from such a fate by removing the opportunity for them to cause scandal.

By setting proper boundaries you ARE being kind. You are encouraging them to see the truth, repent, and giving opportunity to make it right. Abuse works for them as long as they have willing victims thinking that God wants them to be “nice” and turn the other cheek. And then the first one again. And then the second. You must take every kind of abuse seventy times seven. #thingsJesusneversaid  They will only repent when they get it through their brains they have something to repent of, which you can’t make happen but as long as you help them think it’s okay they certainly won’t.

The prophets in the Old Testament showed up and told the people what they were doing wrong. Shape up or this city is gonna burn. Boundaries with a consequence from God, ya think? Jesus calls people to repentance. Infinitely merciful, absolutely. But step one is repentance. “Go and sin no more.”

Finally, we do have Jesus’ own words on how to deal with someone who is hurting you. Check out Matthew 18. Go talk to them privately, if that doesn’t work take a witness or two, then the whole community, then if they still won’t change cut them off altogether.
Title: Re: Bible verses and how God views PDs?
Post by: Rose1 on December 29, 2018, 11:03:18 AM
The word love has many meanings. In Greek 4 words were often used for love. The one referred to mostly in response to people in general or enemies was agape. Agape is a principled love. So a love governed by principles. If we love our enemies we apply the golden rule and treat the way we wish to be treated. We don't return evil for evil.

In the context of an abusive pd person, most if us would have trouble treating them the same way we are treated. We are here discussing ways in which to survive mistreatment without sinking to their level.

We wouldn't consider leaving an abusive pd to freeze in a snowdrift or drown without throwing a life belt. Most of us recognise that the illness is often caused by generations of mistreatment and warrants some compassion.

This is agape. It does not require us to subject ourselves to abuse. Loving our neighbour as ourselves implies a degree of self love and self esteem without which we could not truly love our neighbour. Excessive self love is also not ok as self obsession which is common in pds also means we cannot love our neighbour.

There is a balance in all this. Agape love is balanced with the command to avoid bad associates as they spoil good habits. These two commands are not mutually exclusive. It is quite possible, and in fact desirable to have agape or principled love for our pd and at the same time not associate so closely if possible, that we spoil our own good habits.

So if we have responsibility for a pd ensure they've their needs (not necessarily wants) taken care of. If we can manage to do this and protect ourselves at the same time, and not become or stop co dependence that would be an admirable goal and completely in line with the scriptural principles of love your enemies and also to avoid bad associations.

The command of love your enemy and your neighbour is often falsely applied to mean do what I say and do what I want. If you don't you don't love me and are going against the scriptures. This is not correct and is in itself a form of abuse in that it falsely uses an authority that we may be wanting to live by and attempting to coerce by using that authority falsely. It's no different to using  a kind act and seeing it as a weakness to be exploited rather than the strength that being kind in the face of abuse really is.  Along with this comes the principle of reap what you sow.

If a pd sows abuse, then he likely will reap indifference, nc and poor relationships. This is a natural result of abuse. If you reap this then no amount of misapplied scripture will make much difference.  The only thing likely to improve a relationship for a pd is if they change, make their minds over as we are commanded, and start to treat people with agape love. All the talk and threats and misapplied scripture in the world means nothing. Doing what they accuse others of not doing, showing love for others consistently is really the only way for a pd to mend ruined relationships. Talk is nothing. Accusations are nothing. Action is everything.
Title: Re: Bible verses and how God views PDs?
Post by: Adria on December 29, 2018, 12:08:39 PM
I would never be mean to my enemies. It's just not who I am. Probably most people here are not mean people and would not purposely harm anyone. That is why we are so hurt over the treatment of our FOO. Discernment must come into play in these situations in order to protect ourselves.

I do, however, send a Christmas card and birthday card to my narc father who has literally tried to destroy me. I don't do it for him as much as I do it for myself. It stops me from becoming a bitter angry person. If he needed my help from a distance, I would probably help him, but in no way would I become enmeshed with him again. It would be too dangerous. I think different types of scenarios require different responses. Some are just simply not safe at all. God understands these situations are extremely difficult and that we want to do the right thing. He also understands that we are only human and don't always do everything right even though we try. This bible verse resonates with me after you have done all you can:

Matthew 10:14 And if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet when you leave that house or town.
Title: Re: Bible verses and how God views PDs?
Post by: 1footouttadefog on February 07, 2019, 01:11:39 PM
Don't confuse kindness with intimacy, trust, honor, submission or obedience.

Suppose there is a dirty crazy addicted intoxicated homeless man being obnoxious while insisting that passers by, give him money.  My experience and perception tell me he is dishonest in saying he is in between jobs and needs gas money to get his family to his new job location.  That he demean and cussed out people who decline is further evidence he is lacking decency. 

 I might show him kindness by putting money in his open suitcase on the sidewalk.  But I would not trust him, I would not make myself vulnerable to his dishonesty.  I would not be obedient to his demands or loyal to his causes. 

Title: Re: Bible verses and how God views PDs?
Post by: Adria on February 11, 2019, 11:35:37 AM
I watched a video on utube regarding verses on narcissistic behavior and what God says in the bible. This guy nailed it. God has so much to say about it in the bible, and this guy pointed it all out. I wish I knew who it was, but maybe if you type something in like how does God view narcissistic behavior or something along those lines, you will find many verses, and it is not pleasing to God. Lucifer is the ultimate narc, proud, lying, deceptive, etc., and we are told to protect ourselves and stay on guard as Christians as well as be kind to your enemies.  Sometimes being kind is getting as far away as possible, and saying a prayer.
Title: Re: Bible verses and how God views PDs?
Post by: Mary on March 03, 2019, 12:14:10 AM

“But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.” Luke‬ 6:35‬

To me, there is power in setting boundaries while following Luke 6:35 at the same time. I'm convinced the key to continuing in a relationship with someone with a PD is to build the fence, but at the same time with well doing "put to silence the ignorance of foolish men" I Peter 2:15. Keeping the reward in mind helps-- that I'm making lots of deposits to my heavenly bank account!
Title: Re: Bible verses and how God views PDs?
Post by: coyote on March 08, 2019, 11:11:57 AM
Not sure if it is a bible verse or not but I am reminded of the phrase, "But for the grace of God there go I."
Title: Re: Bible verses and how God views PDs?
Post by: Spring Butterfly on May 23, 2019, 09:15:29 AM
Agape as Rose mentioned is based on principle and is how I take the verse in context with this verse:

Matthew 5:45 "he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous."

General kindness is shown to all humans and other creations regardless of their nature.

However a relationship with God through Christ is an entirely different matter, takes time, effort and a willingness on both parties like any other relationship and God is always willing with an open heart if someone wants to cultivate a relationship.