It's 7 in the morning and I just got another text asking if I celebrate birthdays/do a party for the kids. They don't know if they should acknowledge them or not, they don't know who I am anymore. For a long time they've been living in fear of judgement from me as I seem to think everything they do is a manipulation. They never set out to do that and it's the way I choose to see things.
Ugh. I woke up an hour ago exhausted (baby not sleeping well) realizing it's my moms birthday tomorrow... I knew I've just been putting it out of my mind . It's my middle child's birthday today. I baked him a cake but we keep birthdays low key as a general rule.
She didn't send my boys anything last year or the year before that... we were either not talking or she said it was too expensive to mail.
I don't want to get into it. Yes... I'm finding this very manipulative. No I'm not judging them (I don't think.... maybe I am :stars:).
Why does it have to go like this?!?
What in the world does she think texts like this are going to do?
I want to live my life with grace. I know that there are trials and hardships that we all go through. I'm not God, I'm not perfect.
It's times like these that I start thinking that maybe I haven't been clear enough on what we do or don't do. We are NOT typical by any stretch being a multicultural couple (hubby from another country/culture/people group). We've forged a different way. Praying it's Gods way but again I'm not God.... just trying to do my best.
Can I just crawl in a hole now?!?
Nope, gotta get up and get ready for the day. Thanking God for hubby who is,right this second, making coffee and pancakes.
But seriously guys/gals. How did you handle this? I'm not ready to go NC but I don't know what to say..., again.
Probably should just say nothing.
Hi Sojourner - this is so head-spinning. My uBPDm communicates similarly. She is trying to convince you that you have interpreted things wrong, their intentions are good so you must excuse and accept their behavior. From our perspective, every interaction with them leaves us confused, drained & upset and so we try to minimize the interactions.
Lately, after almost 3 years of increasingly LC and many repetitions of my requests that she quit making everything so damn hard all the time, she is managing to be calm and pleasant around me. And that's all I ever wanted. She won't be able to keep it up forever though, something will happen in her life that will make her feel justified in dumping all over her family again, at which point the whole cycle will probably begin again.
I wish you strength - I think this could end up being a turning point if you're able to hold firm. Keep posting!!
Bahaha the old, "I'M walking on eggshells around YOU!!!" :stars: I've heard that one before, too.
In a sense your M is telling the truth. She is afraid. She's scared to death. She's afraid that you've seen through her, and that yes, in fact a great deal of what she does is manipulation! The part that she never intended was for you to figure it out and act accordingly. Like we discussed she never thought she would reap what she's sown. But by calling your boundaries "judgment" she's calling in the FOG again. And yup, it's another classic DARVO move.
Here's the thing: We judge other people's actions all the time. It's not inherently a bad thing. Am I judging your mother? Yep. I could possibly be wrong. But based on the evidence, this is the conclusion I think most likely to be true. If we never judged anyone's actions we couldn't have good boundaries. We would never be able to tell if someone had shown themselves to be trustworthy or not. So judge away, my friend. Stay safe.
And this text of "Don't you celebrate birthdays anymore?" Is exactly like the Mother's Day one omg. I would love to say yes I do, and it's so much more fun without you! But I know you're too classy for that. ;) It's as if she thinks if she's not included the celebration doesn't exist. :unsure:
My uNPDmom will pester for what the kids want and if you don't respond, send the exact same thing she sent last year. I'm pretty sure she just goes into her Amazon history and reorders. It's like she's trying to hurt the grandkids feelings as punishment.
I don't know what to say that would console you, but I came to the conclusion in my family's situation that the guilt I felt was completely unfounded. I had to go completely NC because the VLC was resulting in this sort of thing.
Hang in there. Even if you are going to keep in contact, maybe just ignore the things that are clear boundary violations. I just wouldn't respond to texts like that. She's looking for a reaction. Any response will be twisted into a way she can use it to continue to harass. Just go on like you never received the texts in the first place. Send her a birthday card (if you were going to anyway), celebrate your kid's birthday, and see her behavior for the immature attention seeking that it is.
"Nothing has changed - we keep birthdays for the children simple and lowkey, just as we've always done." And to myself - you're the GRANDPARENTS, do something for your grandchildren or not but stop debating it with me. I'm not going to tell you what to do, either build a relationship with them or not but *I'd* rather be left alone. If you want to send the kids a card or gift, do that. If you haven't been invited, don't show up. It's not rocket science and we're not debating this further!
But seriously, they wait until the actual birthday to go into this with you? At 7am, no less?
Quote from: moglow on May 16, 2019, 09:45:21 AM
But seriously, they wait until the actual birthday to go into this with you? At 7am, no less?
I'm convinced that PDparents look at the calendar, think "What way can I ruin my daughter's day today?" And craft a text with that in mind.
Possibly. I'm not so sure mine has that presence of mind, to be honest. Mother is so caught in her own endless loop and completely oblivious to other people and/or their lives, it's as if nothing else exists other than her need of the moment. Until she finds another outlet or is somehow redirected, it continues no matter what I say or do.
:yeahthat:
Moglow sums it up nicely!
I can completely relate to this. We have said to my mil over and over that we won't keep the kids from her as long as we feel that she is kind and not manipulative to them (so far so good) but that we just can't deal with the fights and drama anymore. So we've asked her to let us know if she wants to see the kids. Silence. Then months will go by and she will say she's afraid to call us and ask or she just doesn't know what to do. It's maddening. I'm sorry you're going through this!
3:30 update. Another text. Paraphrasing
They have had enough. Saying I don't know what they are going through and don't care. They know DH doesn't like them. Mom didn't like her mil either never kept her son or her grandchildren from her honoured and included her. My gma didn't like her either but they worked around that. I and DH haven't done that and the whole family has suffered as a result. They could use my support but there is none they only feel disapproval and contempt.
She's amping up. I'm trying to visualize just stepping out of the way but really fighting the urge to say something. I'm fighting the urge to doubt my DH and his intentions. I don't want to go there. We are a team.
You guys, I CANT give her the support she wants! On a good day I get to the end of my rope. Parenting and trying to do it well enough is hard work! Im in the trenches big time. I know you understand.
I don't think she thinks about what her words /timing of her words does. I can't go to the place of thinking she does.... it's bad enough thinking she's clueless to what she is doing. The thing is... I see this dynamic when I'm dealing with my eldest and he digs his heels in when he doesn't want to do something. I keep pushing and I KNOW I'm doing it and know it doesn't work (ugh.... anyone with tips for high spirited boys who don't want to do quiet time.... that battle is one I'm losing... I need to do something different.... but I digresss!). So if I know what I'm doing isn't working (and yes I'm working on correcting /changing tactics) why can't SHE see it?!?
The programming picks up and I start feeling crazy, anxiety, inability to think straight, second guessing myself (even though as I write I know it's best to just stay radio silent). Why can't I just say enough already!!?!
Why can't you? Actually my instinct is to reply something like, "I'm experiencing these texts as highly manipulative. This is not a constructive method of communication for us, so I'm blocking you for a week so we can both calm down."
And after that time out...? Whatever you want, I guess. But really, this is getting ridiculous. These stupid texts are taking up so much of your energy.
Maybe others have a different take, and maintaining radio silence wouldn't be inappropriate, but it does seem like something's gotta give here. It might be more empowering to take control instead of just waiting for the next attack.
Quote from: Sojourner17 on May 16, 2019, 05:12:46 PM
3:30 update. Another text. Paraphrasing
They have had enough. Saying I don't know what they are going through and don't care. They know DH doesn't like them. Mom didn't like her mil either never kept her son or her grandchildren from her honoured and included her. My gma didn't like her either but they worked around that. I and DH haven't done that and the whole family has suffered as a result. They could use my support but there is none they only feel disapproval and contempt.
This is hilarious, take a closer look. She's saying that she suffered a nasty MIL and put up with it anyway (martyr much?) and now wants you and your DH to repeat history! Worked around their dislike? More like mutually ignored it or each other because that happened in my family. My uBPDM absolutely despised my enDad's possibly NPDM. Add the Italian to it and it only gets worse. They hated each other until the day uNPDGMA died. Mutually. I think it was because the narcissist was never fooled by the borderline and refused to give her an inch.
So this is what your M is asking you do to. Put up with her and your F, make your entire family suffer, in order to "honor" your parents? In the words of Admiral Ackbar from Star Wars "It's a trap!" Why, if she cared for you or your family would she ask you to "suck it up" concerning their bad behavior instead of honestly trying to improve that behavior? Honor and respect is a two way street, and from what I see you've given until you're drained and they haven't given you so much as a pat on the back. :stars:
Yes, God says to honor your parents, and three verses down from that he tells parents not to provoke their children to wrath. And perhaps in this case honoring your parents does NOT look like just letting their misbehavior slide anymore. Letting them continue in error and pretending you see nothing... It's like where are the Emperor's clothes? :sadno:
I was thinking about this with my own M. They assume everything you do is personal. If you don't text back right away or if you aren't supportive in the way they want then they think of it as a personal attack. Does it not cross their minds that their children are going through things as well? That maybe we aren't trying to be mean, we're just dealing with our own stuff?
Me, needing closure, I think I would reply back simply saying something like: I do care about what you are going through. I am going through things too. I have a lot on my plate and can't offer more than what I've given. I'm sorry you are hurting but I can't fix this and I don't want to fight.
I don't expect the response will be very positive and you may need to block their number again at that point. Of course, you don't have to respond at all, that's an option too.
You are so hard on yourself. You are just trying to get by, same as them. They need to have some empathy & compassion for you life too. Take care & good luck.
I agree - don't be so hard on yourself! :bighug:
If you don't want to respond, you don't want to respond. :)
You can block their numbers and be done with the whole mess if you *allow* yourself to do it, and ask your DH to please check your blocked folder, on occasion, lest it get clogged up with unwanted messages.
They are ANGRY. This is PERSONAL and you are WRONG - that's the only narrative they know and the only one they'll accept.
Please think of this realistically - if you block them, what can they actually DO to you?
You're no longer a child, dependent on keeping mommy and daddy happy because your survival depends on it. You're living on your own with your FOC, making your way in the world, paying your bills, fulfilling your obligations, maintaining friendships, so what can they actually DO to you? :???:
They can't ground you. They can't send you to your room without supper. They can't take away your allowance. They can't take your car keys, deny you internet privileges, confiscate your phone or *actually do anything TO you except use WORDS as a weapon.* :yes:
Angry words! Hostile words! Words that make you feel like you're five or seven again and oh God - this time, I'm REALLY going to get it! :spooked:
But you are *not* five or seven - you're an *adult* - and you get to *choose* the relationships you have, and the ones you walk away from. :yes:
They've had enough!? What about YOU? Haven't you had MORE than enough - a lifetime of expectations you can't fill, love you'll never receive, acceptance you'll never get, and more and more FOG, as time goes by, all in the name of making them look PERFECT - while you and yours suffer in silence. >:(
That's not living - that's towing the line to make them look good and playing at happy families, at all costs. :no:
You don't have to do that. You are not *required* to provide good optics to others, just because they say so. :thumbup:
My advice to you - drop the rope. Please. Just drop the rope and walk away. There's nothing for you here except more pain, disappointment and invalidation, and they've already decided a reason: your DH, who is *on your side, 100%* and they're trying to fuck with your head! :aaauuugh: :aaauuugh: :stars: :aaauuugh: :aaauuugh:
He's this, he's that, he's whatever - no he is NOT. You are a TEAM. You said so yourself, so please don't doubt that. 8-)
Trust YOU. Trust your DH. Neither of you are wrong in wanting an end to this intimidation, which you were programmed to accept since you were a baby - but it can't harm you now. You are FREE. You are SAFE. And you are *silent* - which is a boundary. 8-)
Please allow yourself yet another - blocking all this nonsense. :yes:
You never did a thing to warrant any of this, and it's okay to walk away from it. :)
:hug:
"I have had enough. I don't know what you are going through and don't care. I am entitled to your compliance but you aren't giving it to me. I paid my dues with my MIL and yes, we hated each other and it was miserable. But that's what you have to do, daughter of mine. Again, I don't care about your feelings. I deserve unfettered access to my children and grandchildren, and you all have to pretend to like it. You only ever wanted love but there is none, I only feel disapproval and contempt for you."
#thereifixedit #projection #narctranslator
Sojourner17,
So they appear to be working their way backwards through FOG; they've given up on the guilt ploy and are on to obligation. Yeesh. This seems to be a five alarm tantrum on their part.
You said: I don't think she thinks about what her words /timing of her words does. I can't go to the place of thinking she does.... it's bad enough thinking she's clueless to what she is doing.
If you are trying not to doubt your DH's intentions in the slightest, it might be time to reconsider that, as painful as it may be. They can and will go after your source of strength and resolve if they think it will work, and that is intentional. The end game in their minds is you going back to the way things were, and as Machiavelli once said, the ends justify the means. I know from personal experience that it works the other way, too. If they were in contact with your DH instead of you, you would be branded the problem.
As others have suggested, if your mother is getting to you and starting to make you doubt your beloved DH, it might be time to take a little break and stop reading those texts. I found it to be an enormous relief when I finally blocked M's number; I didn't realize how unnerved by the phone I had become until I stopped feeling that way.
I know its super sucky, and its hard to let go of the belief that one day they're magically going to stop being who they are.
:bighug:
Quote from: Sojourner17 on May 16, 2019, 05:12:46 PM
... They know DH doesn't like them. Mom didn't like her mil either never kept her son or her grandchildren from her honoured and included her. My gma didn't like her either but they worked around that....
Just because others let themselves be abused (because that's what I imagine "working around that" means) doesn't you should do the same and let you, your husband or your kids be abused. It's like telling a battered woman: "Gee, other women let their husbands beat them, put them in hospital, even wind up murdered rather than leave or call the cops." Yeah, just because some people put up with it doesn't mean you should too.
Oh, Sojourner! There is no marrying your life and your mother's perceived needs. I tried for 30 years and it almost killed me! I had shielded my children, but when she started in on them, that was it! We're LC/MC now, but the 5 months of NC was a necessary step in my healing. You would be perfectly reasonable to step away, drop the rope, take a time out, go NC, or anything else to take care of YOU. A good friend kind of jarred me to reason and self-care with the following statement and I now gift to you -- "Enough is enough! Shit, Amadahy!" 🙂
:hug:
Quote from: Call Me Cordelia on May 17, 2019, 07:55:59 AM
You only ever wanted love but there is none, I only feel disapproval and contempt for you."
#thereifixedit #projection #narctranslator
Perfect! :yes: How I wish I had a narctranslator for the passive aggressive emails and texts from my uNPDm! Would have made my life a lot easier.
Talked with hubby about it again tonight. He was not happy about mom pulling him into it. I get it. My hubby has barely talked to them through this whole thing I've been handling any communication other than when my parents were physically here. He wants me to ask my mom where she got the idea that he doesn't like them. He's never said that. I know this was just his initial gut reaction to her text. I don't think he really wants me to ask that question.
I drafted up a text last night basically saying that it sounds like they are going through a rough time but I'm confident they have the resources they need there. I have a lot on my plate can't give more than I have, I do care. Sorry they are hurting but can't fix this and don't want to fight. Yes we celebrate the kids birthdays they can acknowledge if they want no expectations. This is a busy time and my plate is full but everything is well. Then wished her happy birthday.
I sent it this morning. Within half an hour she fired off three texts. I haven't looked at them yet. Might not until Sunday or might get hubby to read them first. We go on holiday on Monday to a cabin where there is no cell reception or internet for three nights. I need to figure out what I want .
I don't feel loved by them or like I or my DH or kids matter. It's all about them. I need to build up some reserves and get some external and internal peace and quiet.
Both hubby and I woke up exhausted as did my kids. I feel fragmented and muddled deflated and beat up.
I feel pulled in multiple directions. Hubby says he's concerned about what this is doing to me/our relationship. I want a reset... hoping the cabin will be that.
Thank you all for the support, for pointing out things, for finding the humour. For being kind to me but at the same time firm. Each time I post it's an exercise in faith that I am worthy of help and acceptance. It's an exercise in exposing things I don't fully understand. So often I want to go back and delete things as I start to panic that I'm creating drama/perpetuating drama, or that I'm gossiping or slandering. But I'm always glad I post and always greatful for what I glean from being on here. I have learned so much. Again, thank you.
Quote from: Sojourner17 on May 17, 2019, 03:00:00 PM
I don't feel loved by them or like I or my DH or kids matter. It's all about them.
Do not cross oceans for people who will not jump a puddle for you. If it's all about them, why bother with them? Why attempt to please them, when they won't return the favor and are probably unpleasable anyway? They complain about being judged, but they probably judge others, including you and you FOC, all the time. Presumably your DH has shown you that he loves you - why are you doubting him and not them? For that matter, given all the pain they cause you, he'd have good reason to dislike them.
I'm sorry if I come across too strong, but please think about this and other replies - sometimes we need an outsider to point out things we might not see otherwise.
Quote from: Sojourner17 on May 17, 2019, 03:00:00 PM
I sent it this morning. Within half an hour she fired off three texts. I haven't looked at them yet. Might not until Sunday or might get hubby to read them first. We go on holiday on Monday to a cabin where there is no cell reception or internet for three nights. I need to figure out what I want .
I don't feel loved by them or like I or my DH or kids matter. It's all about them.
I understand this SO MUCH! So knowing this, I'd say you're justified in just deleting her text replies without even reading them. I wouldn't even have my husband read them for me. It will simply annoy him and he doesn't need that either. Just swipe away her texts. They are just going to be a bunch of :bawl: :blahblahblah: :dramaqueen: anyway. DELETE
I'm glad you're going to a cabin without cell service for 3 days. It will give you both a chance to decompress. I really like qcdlvl's first sentence: Do not cross oceans for people who will not jump a puddle for you.
Hugs to you!
They don't know who you are any more?
Congratulations! Well done! You've freed yourself from them.
KEEP FREE.
Birthdays are a massive exploitative tool for
pds.
In my view, they have tried shunning their own grandkids in order to get you back into obedient child mode. That didn't work. Now they are trying to feign new interest in birthdays, and blame last year's excuses somehow :blink: :blink: on you.
( it's because boo boo we don't know
WHOOOO YOOOOO AAAAARE any more boo hoo! ).
You have changed. You are different. But it's because your true self has emerged. Attacking who you have become, is like a sharp dagger.You've found your identity 🥳 -and they are desperately trying to kill that and put the genie nicely back in the enmeshment bottle. They want that obedient 7 year old back in their lives.
I've had this. I was called ' unnatural' by my father, because I questioned how my mother was behaving toward me at a very difficult time in my life. My mother almost destroyed my relationship with my husband.
We stopped that happening. :fireworks:
They are doing it to try to reel you back into the fog. You are ok and you are strong. Their opinion of you is mortally skewed by their own disorders. laugh at their efforts to invalidate. Just don't be affected by anything they say or do. The sky won't fall in.
They are just 2 people in a world of millions. 😊 You'll never cure them so don't try.
The false hope of a cure keeps many in the fog.
Drop the rope and go make new friends with hubby! Search out healthy ties with well adjusted people! Or just enjoy your family!
They talk about entitlement. You are entitled to live your life as an independent person and be happy. XxxxxX