Ugh- it's summer and we get more time with the kids which = BM ramps up wherever she can.
BM sent DH an email the other day about a program she wants to sign DSS up for. The program is geared toward boys who do not have a male role model in their life due to an absent father. DH about hit the roof, as did I. First, DSS and DH WANT more time together, but BM prevents it...and in no way can DH be considered an absent father. The suggestion is so insulting, and I'm assuming that was the intent.
We are NC with BM, but DH is planning on responding to this one. I told him I think it is important that he does, for any future court appearances or just so if we ever need to show DSS we tried to get more time with him..we can show him. We can't stop BM from doing the program on her time, but we will refuse it on our time- as it is completely counter to the point of the program anyway. I think DH should also respond and say that if BM feels DSS needs more time with a male role model, he wants and is requesting that additional time himself as his father.
I'm curious on thoughts, because this feels like a mine zone- but I don't think we can leave this unaddressed. We know BM will rage back about what a terrible person DH is, but I think that will be important for a judge as well.
I agree - DH should reply that, as his involved and loving father, he is happy to discuss spending more time with his son since she clearly understands that he needs it. I'd offer some suggestions for scheduling time they could spend together for this purpose too.
I completely agree.
I think I would phase it like this:
"I am so glad your proposed that our child get more time with a male role model. We deeply support this and would love to increase the time dear child spends with his/her father. To that end, we are going to do [insert fun/educational activity]."
Then ignore whatever activity BM takes the kid to on her time. Personally, I would make sure that dad and kid did some epic things together, that make the kid find these random "male role model" activities to absolutely stink in comparison. We do all kinds of super fun activities as a family and I do a fair amount of PR before and we discuss them in detail afterwards. (Instead of prayers before meals, we do gratitude lists and reminiscence about our family activities). I never need to actually say anything out loud about it. We just make our house way more fun.
I know it's serious but I found the irony of this situation quite comical.
I wonder what would happen if you wrote back thanking her for the funny joke and that you'll enjoy telling it to all your friends and family.
AOD
Thanks all! This is helpful. The fact that BM has primary custody during the school year and we only see the kids EOW/some holidays makes this quite the punch in the gut.
Good lord I would hit the roof too. Happy Fathers Day to you, from BM!
She wants your SS to spend less (of his already limited) time with his dad ... in order to go through a program about absent dads. Like AOD says, it's so ridiculous it's almost funny.
I told DH about this and he was speechless. He finally said "that's next level."
I think it's smart to send an email, though we're not NC so I guess it's a go with your gut situation. DH would respond for sure. If you send the email the risk is that she'll get the feedback she's looking for and it'll encourage her to do stuff like this more often to get his attention.
If you do send it I was gonna suggest a script similar to Arkhangelsk. "I am also concerned about the limited amount of time DSS has with me, and I would love for him to be with me more. Let me know if you're open to that and we can discuss how to make it happen. But I'm not going to take him to a program for kids with absent fathers on my parenting time, and I think it would be inappropriate for you to sign him up given that he doesn't fit the parameters of the program." (In my situation, DH would probably walk back the aggressiveness before he sent it).
Alternately: "Are you serious?" That's probably not productive but it's what I'd want to say.
I think you really got to the crux of it here:
Quote from: Stepping lightly on June 17, 2019, 08:51:15 AM
The suggestion is so insulting, and I'm assuming that was the intent.
I would, hands done, not let my kids go to such a program on my time. Grrrrrrrr.
I do like interpreting things my ex says by declaring, "I completely agree with your goal. Which is why I am going to do [insert super reasonable thing that any judge would support]."
It is one of my favorite phrases.
what about quote the sites comment about the impact of absentee fathers and saying; "" I couldn't agree with that statement more, and I am really glad you are coming to me with this issue. As his father, I would love the opportunity to spend more time with DS, and I appreciate you willingly opening up this conversation. Since our time is so limited during the school year, I think there would be a huge benefit to spending more time together and would like to hear your suggestions on how that could work within your busy schedule."
I was thinking we should propose time during the school year, but she'll reject it anyway....and I think massaging her ego about how busy she is might help....it's also a bit of a "you're so busy, let me help with making sure DS gets what he needs"
I really like the twisting it around on her and, like Arkhangelsk says, suggest that instead of the insane thing she's proposing do a much more reasonable thing that any good person would agree is a better solution.
I also like in that wording that it leaves the ball in her court. If she's concerned about DSS's "absentee" father, it's on HER to take the next steps of scheduling more time. Of course she probably won't but you also don't have to chase her down for an answer, you can just put it out of your mind (until the nasty email comes).
Bingo.
This makes me start to look forward to the nasty email. I just add it to my file of proof the ex is crazy. It had really helped me to stop dreading getting communications.
oh man, SL. That is low.
I like all the ideas on here. I feel it should be addressed, but in a way that makes it look like you are not upset. Since you are NC, if BM gets a reaction she may realize that over the top evil is how to break the silence. That's why I like the " I understand where you are coming from. The kid(s) should see [dad] more. Let's try to work out something where they can see him more over the school year." Then log her response and use it as ammo next time in court when you try to get more visitation time. BM is saying she wants her kids to have more time with dad yet is doing everything to block his efforts to see him. She is contradicting herself and will probably shoot herself in the foot with this if you go back to court. I would use it to your advantage if possible.
So- BM does not want the kids to have more time with Dad, we all know that. She is very much looking for an opportunity to say that DH is an inadequate role model, and not a substitute for what this group could give DSS. She has already talked about the group with DSS, and he's excited about it. He doesn't understand the premise, just that he will have role models and get to go camping- fun stuff! But I guarantee, if you asked DSS if he would rather do the group, or have time with DH....hands down he'd choose DH (but nobody should be making his choose such a ridiculous thing).
The part I do sort of relish, is that by suggesting this group, she is also (in my mind) saying her live in boyfriend is an inadequate male role model. She has forced the kids to put him on a pedestal, so for her to undermine that idea, she must have REALLY need to take a jab at DH. I mean, the kids had to call him for father's day from our house. I fail to recall my mother's day call (and I totally get the situation and WHY, but it still does sting a bit).
These people who think the pie is so limited drive me nuts.
You kid can love his dad and his step dad. It is sad that his BM does not get that.
It also sounds like he has plenty of candidates for male role models..... :stars:
Oh yeah of course, she absolutely doesn't want the outcome of this to be that your DSS spends more time with his dad. She wants him to spend less time with his dad. I was saying how a reasonable person might read it, not how she will respond.
I laughed at "not a substitute for what this group could give DSS" because it sounds like the group is literally supposed to be a substitute for what your H could give DSS. If he were around. Except that he is.
I think her goal in all this was to get in a dig at your husband around Fathers Day. So in that sense it doesn't really matter how he responds - the point was to insult him and cause problems on what should be his special day. I guess she wanted so badly to get the insult in that she was willing to insult her "perfect" boyfriend. So, cool.
Sorry about Mothers Day too. This year was my first time as a stepmom. I thought I was going to go into it with no feelings - I didn't have any last year. I don't think of myself as on par with a mom. In theory I didn't think it applied to me at all. Even with all that I had some weird/complicated feelings about it. And then, like so many other things, there's not really much to do other than swallow it. Just another time when you have to be the bigger person.
Quote from: Stepping lightly on June 17, 2019, 11:44:32 AM
The part I do sort of relish, is that by suggesting this group, she is also (in my mind) saying her live in boyfriend is an inadequate male role model. She has forced the kids to put him on a pedestal, so for her to undermine that idea, she must have REALLY need to take a jab at DH. I mean, the kids had to call him for father's day from our house. I fail to recall my mother's day call (and I totally get the situation and WHY, but it still does sting a bit).
Did they want to call their stepdad? I would never expect a call in your situation...their mom would have a fit.
A piece I just learned, BM emailed the group and cc'd DH as a way of introduction.
I told him I think his best bet is to go back just to BM with what I wrote before, and if she lashes out, then he can check in with the group, letting them know he is DSS' father and ask about being included as a mentor :-)
Mother's Day is a silly issue really, I know they kids can't call me, BM would go insane. I have also always preferred not "making" the kids do anything for me, knowing they would do it when they are ready. This has led to some tear jerking surprises for me- most memorable being a magnet DSD gave me for Christmas that said, "Best Mom Ever" and she wrote this whole card calling me "BME" throughout, or DSS using his own money at the school store to buy me a bendy monkey (like gumby) and he was too excited to wait for Christmas and ran to me straight after school and gave it to me. It stays on my desk! So..I know the mother's day thing is not a big deal, but I just get frustrated that BM then impacts DH's Father's day for the kids to call her live in boyfriend who treats DH like garbage.
Mamato- of course they called BM's BF, they were told to by BM. I wouldn't expect a call either, that's why I know it's silly for me to feel hurt...and I honestly might be mostly hurt for DH because she tells the kids BF is a better father and person.
Oh man I would love it if this situation ends up with your DH signing up as a mentor and going camping with DSS on BM's parenting time.
I hear you about Mothers Day. It's silly ... it's just a holiday ... it doesn't mean they don't love you ... but it's still hard sometimes and you can't always predict when it'll hit you. And the hypocrisy is especially hard to handle, at least for me.
QuoteOh man I would love it if this situation ends up with your DH signing up as a mentor and going camping with DSS on BM's parenting time.
Me too! And I realize BM doesn't mean she wants the kids spending more time with Dad, but any normal person would read it that way (I think the courts would too. I mean she's "showing concern" that her kids don't have their father in their life :blink:). I really hope you can find a way to use this to your advantage and get the kids more time with Dad.
I had a nice write-up from SD on FB last year on mother's day about being a great step-mom. I never expected it. I think BM put a stop to that because it went back to nothing this year. I view it as I'm doing a pretty good job as step-mom if it makes BM insecure enough to pressure SD into not writing a post about me on Mother's Day. If our BM goes out of the way to say something/someone is awesome, it usually means the opposite and her insecurities lead her to overcompensate.So if your BM is pressuring the kids to call her BF on father's day, then I think DH is doing as amazing job as Dad and she feels threatened by it. :)
Quote from: athene1399 on June 18, 2019, 06:46:19 AM
QuoteSo if your BM is pressuring the kids to call her BF on father's day, then I think DH is doing as amazing job as Dad and she feels threatened by it. :)
That is totally what I believe, because DH is really an incredible parent (and husband). I've always known that is threatening to BM. He is very emotionally intelligent, so he is very much tuned into what is going on with the kids and what they need. He is also really fun, and even in the middle of DSD's 13 yo morning funk, he can get her to start giggling. On top of all that he is patient with them through all this drama and no matter what, he focuses on what they need. I mean, if you just look at BM/BF and DH/I at one of the kids activities; DH/I are engaged and watching right on the sidelines, BM/BF are reading a book a field away in the shade- no joke...reading a book and not looking up (they like to show how smart they are). DSS checks, he looks to see if he can meet our gaze...and we smile and wave....he looks at BM/BF.....and......
:'( That is so sad SL (how BM/BF don't' pay attention). I'm glad the kids have you and DH. :)
Ok, response has been sent.....tick tock on the explosion. DH took the positive spin. The problem is, BM has a plan, she always does. She knows well enough how DH will respond, so she already knows how she will trap him. I don't know her intent here for sure, but she has one, she always does. She may claim that DH always interferes in what she does to try and help the kids, but he is their father....whether she likes it or not. We have proof of her trying to slide BF into the daddy role, and now using an external group to chip further away at DH's already limited time, I'm anxiously curious to see what comes back at us. And on top of it, poor DSS. He told her wanted more time with DH, so she had him diagnosed as mentally ill. *sigh*
Quote from: Stepping lightly on June 18, 2019, 07:43:04 AM
they like to show how smart they are
:rofl:
GOOD LUCK! DH just sent our BM an email she's not gonna like either. It can be so anxiety producing to just wait and see what happens. Hope you have something that requires a lot of focus to take your mind off it for awhile!
In the end, parenting is a verb.
Kids know who is doing it, blood connection or no.
I hope the inevitable nastygram isn't too bad. Good luck! And please keep up posted. ;D
I didn't read the response, but DH said she accused him of making this "all about himself and not thinking of DSS". DH responded pointing out the fact that he was thinking of DSS, as his biological father who is best suited to be the role model she points out that he needs right now, and by ignoring that, this is really about her. To tie it up, he said DSS would not be participating during DH's time.
It's always something.
I think she didn't like that he kind of pointed out "What do you mean 'no male role model'? He can spend more time with me if you feel that way." when she meant it as a jab. I don't think she thought it through at all. Probably thought everyone else would view it through her distorted lens and was thrown for a loop when DH said he wanted to be the male role model. She basically is showing she wants her son to spend more time with a father-figure, yet never imagined it could be seen as her wanting her son spending more time with Dad (because that's the opposite of what she wants). Like she tried to say "you're not in the picture so you suck" and DH pointed out "I would love to be in the picture, and if you think DSS needs more time with a father-figure, I want to be a part of that." So... if it's about DSS and a father-figure, then how is it not about DH? :stars: I know we all see it, and she can't because her intentions were to hurt DH's feelings. It sounds like DH did point this out to her (she probably gets where he is coming from which is why she was so pissed). I'm guessing either she will drop it or try to sneak him in the program anyway. Which is also crap because I'm sure there's kids out there who really don't have a dad that would benefit from this program.
I'm sorry you're going through this. It sounds really frustrating!
I actually think her intent is to try and show that DH never thinks about DSS, only about what he can try use to get more custody time. This was really a stupid move though, as she's already been nailed by a judge for trying to force DH out as the father figure and this example is excessively obvious. DSS may participate on HER time, but he won't be on our time. She'll tell DSS that DH wouldn't allow him to participate in this fun group, and she'll try to martyr herself about how she is moving mountains so he can do it at least on her time.
Honestly- all that shows to me, is that she thinks her BF is an inadequate role model since he's the man DSS is around the most. I couldn't agree more based on what I've seen from him.
Quote from: Stepping lightly on June 27, 2019, 10:32:41 AM
I actually think her intent is to try and show that DH never thinks about DSS, only about what he can try use to get more custody time.
There's always a catch 22 isn't there? If he doesn't object he is an absent father, if he does object he only cares about the kids to get more custody time.
Yep, lose lose, every situation with BM is setup as a lose lose....she's a pro.
The whole martyr thing drives me batty. BM does that to us too. But I agree. She is showing more that BF is not a good role model and probably doesn't even realize it. I also think this whole thing will not look good for her in front of a judge.
Sometimes I try to imagine what people like this are thinking. It really seems they believe themselves and that they are acting in their kids' best interest.
Sigh. I just had a three-week stretch with my kids. When there have a stretch away from their dad, so much goodness blossoms. They get really anxious right before they go back. :(
We see the goodness blossom during longer stretches as well. It is so nice to see the kids settle into just being themselves and not having to live up to whatever expectation BM has thrust upon them. There is stress when they return to BM, which of course she blames on DH.
Agreed.
The worst is that soon they go for their dad's 3 week stretch. That is always nerve wrecking. We never know what they are going to be like when they get back.
And....she did it, she signed him up for the group for boys "without a father figure"...Not sure if DH knows, I saw it pop up on the shared calendar. He did put his foot down, and said that under no circumstances would this group take time away from him and DSS being together.
This is all truly insane but I guess that's normal for her. I wish this would backfire on her in a spectacular way somehow, like DSS reports her abuse to his counselor and they call CPS and your H gets custody instead. We can dream, right?
OH, totally funny you say that PL- DSS had a "breakthrough" with his T this summer. We never got the details, but he was VERY upset after a session when DH went to pick him up, he had to wait for 45 minutes after for DSS to compose himself because he didn't want anyone to know. Some weird stuff happened after that, T cancelled the next 2 sessions (he had them for a week straight during our time this summer). DH never heard from her again. BM scheduled a check in discussion with the T, and there have been no additional appointments scheduled. BM shoved this T down our throats, used it last summer to try and force us to reschedule vacation because DSS couldn't miss therapy for more than a week, and now it's been 2 months since he's gone. I think she didn't like what the T had to say and for the 2nd time in DSS' life, and I assume BM canned the T. We are holding for a minute now that school is back in and the schedule is sort of back to "normal" to see if she schedules anything. I'll slyly check in with DSS too to see if he's gone, it's a "fun" type of therapy so it's easy to ask about. If not, DH is going to touch base with the T. The first time this happened, DH had decision making for therapy and the T was onto BM. She produced a report that was pretty damning, and BM filed malpractice.
Wow. I am sorry she signed him up for the activity for kids w/o a male role model. Maybe DH can volunteer there and get more time with his kids that way.
I do wonder what happened with the T. The T must have started learning too much about BM through DSS. Our BPDBM definitely does "splitting" where if she feels someone isn't on her side anymore, they are a bad person. it's that black-and-white thinking. Plus she doesn't like anyone who knows how she really is. She has to keep that mask up. If they no longer buy her crap, she cuts ties and moves on after an excuse about how bad the person was.
I hope you can use what the T says against BM to get more time if you want to go that route.
Thanks Athene and PL. Sadly, it seemed like DSS was enjoying his therapy, and the fact he was starting to open up was really a positive for him. We have always felt like we just want him (and DSD) to have a safe place to understand the choas around them. It seemed like he was getting that with her. The T wanted to provide a written update to to the parents, and we were really worried what that would mean. DH didn't say anything, and we talked long about whether he should. We wanted therapy to continue, and no matter what the T would put in that report it would not help DSS, BM would make sure if that. In addition, the damage BM did to the other T when she wrote a summary was devastating. In the end, we decided to let the cards fall where they may, if DH said anything it may have looked like he was afraid of what would be in the report. BM got a hold of the T before anything was sent out...so..here we are.
Therapy is such a terrifying tool with a PD involved and a child at the center of it. You just have to sit back and hope for a competent health care provider. We have run into therapist that see what my ex is doing (the ex gets rid of them) and those that do not (the ex clings to them and our kid reports that he cannot tell the therapist anything, because, "it will get back to dad."
I do not see any solution beyond waiting for the kid to get old enough to have a say in it. :(
SL, Is DH allowed to get a written update from this T just for himself? I know BM put a stop to it, but can DH call to get the report? Maybe he could somehow give it to the next T (if BM is switching where DSS goes) so that they know what he was working on with his previous T. But then you get in the sticky situation of what if BM finds out and loses it. But if he was making good progress with this T, it would suck to have him start all over somewhere else.
Has any of the kids gone to one of the "positive male role model" meetings yet? I was curious how that whole thing is panning out.
DH is definitely going to follow up with the T, we were just holding off a second to see if anything is scheduled. At this point, I don't think it will be, but DH has a hard time diving into this conflict anymore. In our situation, it doesn't matter, it only stirs things up...it never helps even if she has done something totally horrible.
DSS has gone to the meetings, we don't really talk about it. I imagine it's fun, probably like boy scouts or something else he was never allowed by BM to do. At least he has a positive influence during her time, and she isn't thinking her BF is that person, because....he certainly is not.