Out of the FOG

I just wanted to start a post here that I can add to periodically as I make steps on this path. It's not necessary for anyone to read it at all. I just feel better thinking that I can make a visible record of my thoughts, and the logic I am having to employ. I'm thinking (hoping) it will make all of this easier to navigate. Like a series of reminders that will show how far I have come.

Right now all is confusion and doubt. I'm vacillating between believing my mother is NPD, and thinking perhaps I'm only contemplating it. This is for a number of reasons.

The first thing that gets me is doubt. Even though it makes sense, and even though some things my mother has done can probably only be explained this way, I still doubt. I don't want to believe she is incapable of understanding my suffering. I don't want to believe that the things she has made me endure were for her benefit all along. I don't want to believe that when she manufactures all the myriad slight arguments that she turns into massive great silences and atmosphere... I don't want to believe that I'm the only one of us that feels hurt and helpless.

Then there's the darker, more insidious doubt. With that little voice, and it says: how could you think that about your own mother? How could you ascribe those kind of nasty, mean spirited, cruel intentions to her? You could make those things fit for anyone - haha, maybe everyone you know is narcissist, or how about this? You're a horrible person! Have you thought that maybe it's you? This information right here says narcissists make themselves into the victim, but isn't that exactly what you're doing? Eventually I have to logic myself out of that. Because if it was me, I'd likely (a) be aware of it (b) wouldn't have been suffering all this time, and (c) certainly wouldn't be worried about it.

As I've gone into adulthood I've had to tell myself certain things about my mother, because her behaviour can't make sense in the context of complete normality, even if I'm not thinking NPD. So I've told myself she is very highly strung, because of the way she magnifies the slightest thing to defcon 1 levels of snarling rage.

I've told myself lots of things, to explain why the atmosphere is so thick you can cut it with a knife. To explain that fearful feeling just hearing her footsteps on the stairs (even to this day). And it's more than a feeling. I've noticed my guts churn as I've listened. You'd think it was a monster... I'm not physically afraid of her. But in every other way a person can be terrified, there I am.

I've told myself she didn't know what she was doing when I would sit at the top of the stairs at barely four years old, listening to her tell my Dad for hours how bad I was, and how I was doing it all on purpose, and how I didn't deserve anything, and how sending me to my room wasn't a good enough punishment because my books were there. The way that my mother would always refer to me as 'she' and 'her' with an snarl in her voice. I don't know what I did, but whatever it was I did it every single day. I was a quiet child.

Or when she told me at a family gathering when I was around nine that she wished she'd never had me while I was setting the table, and I distinctly remember the shocked gasp of my aunt on my Dad's side. I remember the sudden pain, and saying that it was her mistake, and her agreeing with me before walking off. The way that everyone melted away because they didn't know what to say to a nine year old. And as an adult, I look back on that and I want to hug the child that I was and tell her it's okay.

Or when she said it while the family was watching tv when I was around twelve, and I said I didn't ask to be born, so she drafted in my father who was studying infertility to confirm that babies choose the moment, so desperate she was to win that argument and make it my fault. My fault for being born. Even as I'm writing that I just... wow. I'm too shocked to even feel anything about it. The things that I've just accepted, and worse, internalised.

When I was a teenager and I was upset at maybe thirteen or fourteen, and she actually cuddled me on her knee (a very rare thing!), and asked me what was wrong. When all my childish teenage fears came out, she turned blank, turned me off her knee and told me coldly she didn't want to know that kind of thing.

When MH services had hold of me at eleven for depression, and I was forbidden to see them any longer as soon as they wanted my mother to become involved. I remember her rant in the car at the hospital to this day. How dare they want to speak to her?! How dare they imply that my "problems" were anything to do with her!

Or the time I told my partner about recently, when she and my father were arguing and I was ten, and he stood on the garden with his cases and told me I had two minutes to change his mind. And I realise now that he was a coward, and that he was saying to me what he daren't say to her. And how horrible it was to do that to a child, to your own child, and how that stress has been carried with me down the years. That stress of being responsible for the whole family at ten, when nothing I could have done warranted that weight being placed upon me.

A few of these things, my mother has flat out denied doing/saying. Some of them I've never brought up, but they are there in my memory. I wonder how many things have disappeared under the sand... how many things will come back.

For now though, my biggest enemy is doubt.

I don't want to believe that all of these ways in which I've been hurt were deliberate, were coldly done, were done without a feeling heart.

Because she's not like that all the time. It's not every minute of every day, but it's enough for doubt. It's enough that the terror of her moods is still there, and though I might deny it, in my heart I know I live my life around her and what she wants, and that I've grown so used to walking on eggshells I can't feel the pain in my feet anymore. In many ways, admitting that this is likely what she is, and coming to understand that, is as hard as the emotional abuse itself.

Because she's not like that all the time. It's not every minute of every day, but it's enough for doubt. It's enough that the terror of her moods is still there, and though I might deny it, in my heart I know I live my life around her and what she wants, and that I've grown so used to walking on eggshells I can't feel the pain in my feet anymore. In many ways, admitting that this is likely what she is, and coming to understand that, is as hard as the emotional abuse itself.

Youve described a Borderline mother to a T. There is another book about out dealing with a "Borderline Mother. See Resources and Books . Guess what its called......." Stop walking on Eggshells "

I agree. She sounds very borderline. Borderline personality disorder can go hand in hand with narcissism. I suggest the book Understanding the Borderline Mother by Christine Lawson. It's expensive but worth every single penny. I'm my case it's my grandmother and she is the "queen" type. Reading the book was so validating to me that yes, it has been that bad with her. The book explains the 4 types of borderline mothers. They can be one or a combination of types. You can maybe find it at the library if you don't want to buy it but read it one way or another. It will help so much on your journey.

Re: Understanding the Borderline Mother. Someone has put the audio book on YouTube. You can listen to all of it there.

DoQ

Hi Pipchick - and welcome!  :)

I'm really sorry you had to endure all that, at the hands of somebody who sounds suspiciously like my "mom," unBPD Didi.   :aaauuugh:

I remember the days of doubt, too - was it me?  Was I imagining it?  Was I making too much out of nothing?  She's not like that all the time, she's just got her moments.  Is she really the one with the problem, or is it me?

I don't know what set me off - it was probably yet another figurative paper cut, in a long line of them, and I just started to cry, realizing my mother doesn't love me.  My mother was incapable of loving me.  My mother wanted to hurt me and see me suffer - that was the only thing that made her happy.  :'( :stars:

She could act perfectly normal, yet flash that inhuman smirk at the least appropriate of times - one of our cats had recently passed away, at a young age, and I was still grieving.  I made the mistake of crying in front of Didi.

It happened so fast - and I remember thinking, "Did I actually just see that?  Did that really happen?"  :blink:

And I remember leaving about 30 seconds later, because yes, it HAD happened and I had to get out of there, because I just couldn't believe somebody could be that cruel - that my adoptive mother could be so cruel.

I didn't get remarks about wishing I hadn't been born, but I did get plenty of them indicating I was a factory reject they HAD to adopt, because I was so (fill in the blank), that nobody else would want me.   :roll:

Didi died nearly six years ago (time flies when you're not constantly being invalidated  :bigwink:), and I'm fighting a curable form of cancer.  It's a PITA, but in less than 3 months, the doctors expect me to be cancer-free - and I've never been so glad Didi is dead, because I don't have to deal with her!   :yahoo:

That was honestly one of my first thoughts when I found out I had cancer - I'm so glad she's dead.  I don't have to hide it from her,  I don't have to worry about her making it all about her, and telling me I deserve it for being a bad daughter!   :wacko:

I don't have to worry about her ignoring my doctor's instructions and telling me I'm faking - while insisting I have a cigarette,  and to shut up and stop whining when SHE'S got real problems.  :dramaqueen: :violin:

Didi was the kind of person who'd see my shaved head and tell me to buy a wig, because she doesn't like the way it looks, and she'd accuse me of being *dramatic* - she wouldn't believe that chemo was making it fall out, because that might mean having a thought about anybody that wasn't herself.  :roll:

If you've *ever* had a thought about hiding something serious from your mom (health, taxes, relationship, job, kids, any of the other number of serious subjects that befall  us, and we need support) - it's DEFINITELY not you that has the problem.  :yes:

In time, as you read more and more on this site, and start to see stories that make  you think, "Holy crap!  Was I posting in my sleep!?" - you'll accept  your mom is the one with a problem, and you didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't  cure it.

Understanding the Borderline Mother is indeed on YouTube - and it's *rough.*  I suggest tissues and taking frequent breaks. 

The other book I'd like to recommend is, "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend.  Your mother didn't teach you the necessary boundaries you need to get along in life - this book will help you establish them, and separate yourself from your mother, who will HATE your boundaries - but tough noogies.  8-)

Your boundaries will not be to hurt her, but protect yourself.  :yes:

Didi railed against every one of my boundaries, but I managed to hold fast to them, no matter what she threw at me.  I surprised myself at how strong I was - Didi called it forgetting she was my mooooooother, and she'd do anything for her moooooooooother.   :violin:

Please remember you are not alone on your journey - you've found your tribe.  :grouphug:

:hug:

Quote from: WomanInterrupted on November 16, 2019, 11:57:55 PM
Didi died nearly six years ago (time flies when you're not constantly being invalidated  :bigwink:), and I'm fighting a curable form of cancer.  It's a PITA, but in less than 3 months, the doctors expect me to be cancer-free - and I've never been so glad Didi is dead, because I don't have to deal with her!   :yahoo:

That was honestly one of my first thoughts when I found out I had cancer - I'm so glad she's dead.  I don't have to hide it from her,  I don't have to worry about her making it all about her, and telling me I deserve it for being a bad daughter!   :wacko:

I'm so thrilled to read you will be cancer-free in 3 months WI!!!  :cheer: I've been wondering how things are going with you. I'm dealing with a similar thing and have to wait to find out my diagnosis. My uPDmom is still alive so I'm going to hide it from her. Any medical issue I have, she has had worse. All her issues are worse than anyone else. Anyway, I'm so happy for you.

Sorry for the thread-jack pipchick. I'm glad you're here to learn about PDs and make your own determination if it applies to your mother. When I first arrived here it was like a dark, heavy curtain was flung open. I mean, people had the same weird, troubling experiences with their parents and it was actually a "thing".

It put so many experiences with my uPDmother into perspective. It wasn't me thinking she was just mean and ridiculous, she had the same Personality Disorder handbook and was doing all the steps over the years. She's still writing mean and nasty things to family and friends on facebook (she's old and didn't turn into a sweet old lady) so I deactivated my account and don't have to see it anymore. The less time I spend with her, the better.

Welcome to the forums.

Thank you, Hazy111 - I am definitely looking into uBPD now as well. Good recommendation!

Thank you, too, Adrianna. It is way too expensive for me, but other people on this thread have said it's on youtube. (nods)

DoQ - you are awesome, thank you so much. While I've been hiding away upstairs this afternoon, I've been listening to it on my phone. I knew I couldn't afford to buy it.

Hi WomanInterrupted,

Firstly I am so glad that you are beating cancer... go you! It happens more and more now that people get cancer free. We are so going to win.

But ahh... the doubt! You get it. And she does sound very similar. The things she would say are the things most calculated to hurt you. Or she will see a moment of weakness and it's literally like seeing her come in for the kill, and there's nowhere to go.

The sooner I accept that her problems are hers, the sooner I can get on with the work I need to do, and living my own life away from her shadow. And damn I think that is going to loom long. I can already imagine all the: but after everything I've done for you... etc and so on as soon as she wants something from me. Though right now she's in a new relationship so I am surplus to requirements. I'm getting a lot of 'Flowers in the Attic' vibes from her right now... i.e. I think we should move the computer upstairs out of the way for when we have visitors... (it's mine and where I sit a lot, since I am a writer) What do you mean I'm trying to get rid of you? I'm just thinking of tidying the living room up! (Yes, by making sure I'm no longer in it. I know.)

Anyway I have been listening to youtube today, and I recognise a lot of us in those stories. I'm not sure it matters all that much what it is, as long as I can get a strategy together for surviving it in the right way, and beginning to recover so that I can eventually get away for good. It's been occurring to me why I feel so good on holiday, and why I don't feel that way when she insists on accompanying me.

Thank you for the rec on setting boundaries too... that is very important.

I'm really glad you're going to be okay, and I'm very pleased to meet you. :hug: Oh, and you are an ex-smoker too? I stopped just over four weeks ago now.... then I stopped vaping this week, lol.

Hey SunnyMeadow and no worries :)

Yes, that dark, heavy curtain has been suffocating me for a long time. I feel like even with all the doubt and anger and worry... I'm also so full of hope and optimism. I can escape this. And if I can do that, I can do anything, because I know I am strong. I've faced some rough things down. I can do this too.


Thank you for the welcome, every one  8-)

Happy Christmas to everyone...

Adding an entry because after a relatively more peaceful period, my mother hit me with it full force today. One of those where they make you look bad in front of others, knowing if you try to defend yourself you'll look completely crazy, and even when you have to escape from the room they get the extra bonus of making you look petty.

I talk to my partner about it and he says I have to develop some shields... but I guess I just wasn't expecting it. And it hurts to be belittled and hurt in front of others, and for those others to just enable it.

I've been feeling pretty horrible since then, even though my partner has asked me not to think about it. I went out for a walk in the cold for two hours. Now I'm still getting the accusatory: "What's wrong with you?" all the time, like machine gun fire.

It's just gaslighting. I know it is. I just... ouch.

My partner thinks that as soon as I am out of the picture (I'm planning to move to be with him), then the enabler will get a taste of it, because he thinks she needs to get other people down to make herself feel good, and I am her target because I'm her daughter, so she knows exactly and precisely how to make me feel bad.

Anyway, I thought I should put it here, and I have to say, from glancing through the forum it seems the holiday period is a favourite time for our narc parents. So many posts about christmas here. It just struck me, that's all. Maybe we all let our guard down at this time of year? And that allows them to get in?

I've been listening to an audiobook: The Narcissist in Your Life: Recognizing the Patterns and Learning to Break Free by Julie L. Hall

Some more things are occurring to me. Like the fact that I will never reclaim my lost past. That there are things I will never see clearly because I was too young. All I can do is work with what I have now. I notice that she's been running an extensive long running smear campaign against my Dad, almost from the moment he passed. He committed suicide when I was 25. But I'm also seeing that he enabled her, sometimes in horrific ways.

I'm trying to employ medium chill, but it feels so incredibly lonely. Yet I'm aware this loneliness is always there, I'm just looking at it now instead of turning away from the part of me that has always been lonely.

I had a dream last night where I saw her for what she is. Not a monster. She still looked like her, but the events in my dream, she was manipulating them so she could enjoy watching me try to right everything, celebrating my losses in her heart, but at the same time unwilling to let me go.

I realise that all the bad things she has ever made me feel are things that she feels about herself. My body, my illnesses are her Dorian Grey portrait. No more. I will continue with medium chill if it kills me. One way or another, I am going to escape from this Hell on earth she's made for me.

But every now and again this seems so impossible. As if I am walking in the dreary rain, and someone has told me that if I can only fly up beyond the clouds I can be in the sunshine.

How can I fly?

Pipchick. I am so very sorry! Im glad you are here. I think your plan is a good one. I look forward to witnessing your journey.

Thank you, PeanutButter :)

There's a battle ahead, that's for sure. But I have a plan... it goes something like this:

Go home, get the dogs and pack some stuff, get to the club, lock the doors and shutters, then sit down with a nice cold drink and wait for all of this to blow over...

Wait... this isn't the Brexit forum, is it?

I have a strange sense of humour. Death will do that to you. But in a way it's helped me. I've been through worse grief. I can go through this too. I will survive it. And I will have a life in the end. Seeing others like you who are further along in the journey gives me a lot of hope.

Hi Pipchick
Your childhood and mine sound uncannily similar. I can really empathise. My updM told me from a very young age also that there was something wrong with me, that I ruined her life and would rant to my father about me. She'd tell my other siblings to stay away from me. I recall standing in our garden at *two years old *struggling to figure out what I could do to make her like me. Like you, I was a pretty quiet kid, and my younger golden child brother was the favourite. I reckon I had depression all through my childhood and adolescence (untreated, obviously, because they didn't notice? Or I was simply an annoyance). It's an understatement to say my childhood wasn't great. Yet she could always present well enough outside the home and was (still is) a pillar of the local community. So no one ever got my point of view, which, like yourself, cause me to doubt my feelings, all of which were suppressed anyway as she would rage, cry and become ill if I expressed them.

I agree with WI about being glad that Didi isn't around to hear she had cancer. I recall saying to one of my sisters, 'god, I hope I never get it, mainly because M would make it all about her and turn it into some sort of cottage industry of martyrdom.' You know something's wrong with someone when that's your first consideration.

Anyway, I really feel for you, Pipchick.  I wish I'd 'got out' much earlier in life. I kept trying for too long at too much cost to my physical and psychological well-being.  A dark sense of humour will certainly get you through the tough times though. I wish you well on your journey and I feel that in time you will rise above it and fly.

Hi doglady... I'm so sorry for everything you've been through :hug:

It does sound very similar indeed, and I hope you are recovering well now. It's amazing how well we internalise the idea of our feelings being annoying, isn't it? I apologise for existing so many times each day, to everyone, and now I have to consciously catch myself doing it.

The things is though that now, no matter how long we stayed or how bad it feels... we get to choose our own 'normal' and I want mine to be relaxed, chilled and laid back. I want the people that surround me to be reasonable, rational human beings. I want to give and receive. And even though I might still have to live with her right now, it doesn't seem so impossible any more. That's got to be a good thing.

You matter.

The One About the Cheese...

Thought I'd bring this memory up in my thread, because we've just had Christmas, which is one of the rare times I will eat cheese. It's not usually high on my list of foods.

Over Christmas I was grating some cheese, and the same memory came to mind as it does every single time.

Picture the scene. I'm ten years old, and I've been given a Very Important Job - that of grating cheese. It's the first time I've ever done it. It's harder than I imagine, and I work hard at it while my mum and dad ignore me. We have an old fashioned grater, and it's too big for my little hand, given that I have to hold the cheese with the other. Maybe I'm not even as old as ten.

As I continue, it occurs to me that maybe I shouldn't be doing the whole block, but no one told me how much to do. I look up and around for guidance, and I swear I feel the breath my mother inhales when she sees me. Then my mother uses that breath to scream at me.

I'm stupid. I'm useless. Why did she bother ever having me?... "Philip! Look at what she has done now! There are fingermarks in the cheese!" I look and, sure enough, I can see the indents of my own fingers where I was holding the cheese to grate it. I feel so horrible and guilty... and dirty. My mother is looking at me like that again. Like I am the most disgusting thing she has ever seen. I don't know what to do. I start crying, but my Dad doesn't help me. He doesn't say anything. I don't know how to make the moment move to the next one. I don't know how. I don't know what I did, at the same time as I do know what I did.

I am 43 years old, and I cannot grate cheese without feeling that sense of deep shame, humiliation, and rejection.

I am 43 years old, and I don't eat cheese very often. It's not high on my list of foods.

I'm not meaning to spam my own thread or whatever... it's just... I felt so unbearably sad this morning that I was crying on the way to the gym.

And tonight I am not a million miles away from it either.

I'm not sure how well I'm doing at medium chill... but I'm not getting drawn into disputes. I'm remaining coolly aloof without being unpleasant. I don't know what it is that's making me sad. I guess the mother I want would sense the change and ask me about it, but it's not quite that. The mother I want would sense the change and ask me about it because the distance would feel bad to her. That might be it. Yet, clearly... that's not who I'm dealing with, so why does it hurt like this?

Today I put a lock on my bedroom door. To me it seems like a reasonable boundary, especially since her new man is living in the house. But I'm hoping she doesn't catch me going in.

EDIT: To elucidate, I'm feeling bad for treating a person who doesn't exist... badly.

Today:

Well, yesterday I took my elderly greyhound to the vet because her leg was swelled up and she was limping. He gave her a bottle of the anti-inflammatory painkiller that he has given her before. Mom was out all day, even though she knew it meant I'd have to drag both dogs to the vets.

I gave her the double dose in weight that the vet told me to with her tea.

This morning I went to the gym and shopping for dinner tomorrow. She doesn't say a word all day, then tells me she gave the greyhound some more painkiller this morning. She doesn't even know how much to give her and reads the box wrong (reading the 1.5mg of ingredient per ml as the dosage).

She's overdosed the dog.

And all she can say is: "Stop shouting at me!" I'm not even raising my voice, but I'm amazed that she doesn't understand (a) that no dose whatsoever would have been due this morning because she only ever has that painkiller once a day, and (b) that she can't even read a veterinary direction on a box.

I'm going to miss tonight's dose and hope that is okay.

I am so fed up of this. I can't be in the same room as her. Not even for five minutes. Because there isn't any way that she doesn't xxx with my life and the lives of the animals I care about.

She does understand what she's done.
She's purposefully waited until she's seen me for long enough to deliver the blow.
She's deliberately careless with the lives of the animals.
She has done this to stress me and then deny me the opportunity to display any emotion whatsoever, because I am being "horrible" to her.
I am not being horrible to her.
She is being horrible to me.
And particularly horrible to the greyhound.

Now she is downstairs talking to the flying monkey partner she has moved in with us about me.

Well now she is throwing me out of the house and I have nowhere to go. So life is over

Hi pipchick. Im sorry that your beloved pet is feeling bad. I want to validate you that it is horrible that your M waited untill you were gone to dose the dog again. She should be ashamed and no amount of selective intelligence would suffice as an excuse for me. I would tell her the next time she does that you will report her to the aspca for animal abuse/negligence. It sounds like she did this to punish you and to get a reaction.IMO
Im so glad you put a lock on your door. 
Hang in there. It sounds like the MC is working if you are not being drawn in to disputes. She may escalate or change tactics in response. Regardless of that IMO you will need to grieve the mother you never had. I hope posting here is helping. We are here for you.

Quote from: pipchick on December 31, 2019, 12:36:56 PM
Well now she uscthriwing me out of the house and I have nowhere to go. So life is over

Oh no! Take a moment. Lets think. Can she legally do this? Maybe she will have to evict youto do that. I hope so. Shes escalating because of your MC. And her new supply.

Thank you peanut butter.

I got the medication to lock away without her seeing and then I went down to make sure the greyhound ate her tea as loss of appetite is a symptom  of overdose.

Then she told me to stop being funny with her,and that I know where the four us. The she told me to Xxxx off.

Door, not four. I cant type properly. I am literally shaking.

Quote from: pipchick on December 31, 2019, 12:41:16 PM
Thank you peanut butter.

I got the medication to lock away without her seeing and then I went down to make sure the greyhound ate her tea as loss of appetite is a symptom  of overdose.

Then she told me to stop being funny with her,and that I know where the four us. The she told me to Xxxx off.

IMO Go in your room now and lock the door. Do not leave the house yet if possible. But if it was me i would stay away from her and not engage no matter what. She is wanting to bait you into escalating. She cannot stand your MC. This is expected. She was getting supply from you and now youve cut her off.

That's where I am now

Quote from: pipchick on December 31, 2019, 12:42:47 PM
Door, not four. I cant type properly. I am literally shaking.

Its ok i knew what you meant. I know you are shook up and who could blame you. That is vicious of her to tell you to leave when she knows you have nowhere to go!
This is the only power she had to effect you. She knows you see behind her mask!

This is vicious and you don't deserve any of this crap. Not one shred. We all wish we could just beam you (and your dog) right out of this situation.

She knows this will destroy me. My partner is Australian. Theres no way I can get to him. Hes not even awake tight now. And she knows the more drama she can associate me with the more chance he might end it between us. Also, if I dont gave anywhere to live i cant save up... which has been our plan for a while now.

I am so lost.

I hope you can have some quiet to rest and recover. Your instincts are working well. You got the lock to keep you safe. Now you are safe in your room. This too will pass. I know how much you are hurting. I am sending you loving supportive energy!

Do you have any tenant's rights?

Will this blow over if you can hang in there for a couple of days?

Is she banging on your door or leaving you be for now?

Does she ever leave the house?

Thank you peanut butter and Numblotus.

She is leaving me be so I will just stay here. She's not likely to go anywhere tomorrow. I got her favourite pork chop for new years day dinner.

I will wait for my partner to wake up in a few hours.

Shes downstairs talking about me.

Quote from: pipchick on December 31, 2019, 01:08:09 PM
She knows this will destroy me. My partner is Australian. Theres no way I can get to him. Hes not even awake tight now. And she knows the more drama she can associate me with the more chance he might end it between us. Also, if I dont gave anywhere to live i cant save up... which has been our plan for a while now.

I am so lost.

Yes this is why she is doing it. She wants to break your spirit. This way you will be submissive again.
Do you have to leave? I mean what is to stop you from refusing to leave? As long as you dont engage in any fighting with her, does she have the right to MAKE you leave? If not then dont!IMO

You are right. I finally started to have some kind of life again this year after a long time being depressed.

It's her tenancy so I dont know but I will look into it. I dont think I have any rights.

I will look into it though.

Thank you all.

I dont deserve this. I have to remember that. Please God let me remember it.

No you do not deserve any of it. NONE of it is even a little bit your fault! Pleasepleaseplease remember that! :hug:
ALL of it is projection of the darkness in her soul and reflection of the toxic termoil in her mind. IMO
Earlier in my journey i use to do this mental exercise: I would focus on my breathing a few deep slow breaths IN -OUT In through my nose Out through my mouth then I imagine light energy from above (heaven) and around (universe) that i would pull into and around myself. I would imagine the light surrounding me. The light is unconditional love. It protects me. Almost like a shield. I am inside the light. The light comes through me.
For some reason this helped me to feel stronger and less effected by people trying to be mean to me. I felt like as long as I had the light (unconditional love) surrounding me negativity could not touch me. If I felt someone was trying to hurt me I would do this exercise to help ground myself in confidence/joy.
Hopefully she wont bring up you leaving again.
You can pretend like you dont remember the argument if she does.   :laugh:

Thinking of you, Pipchick. It's very worrying that your mother is hurting your dog to get at you. This verges on sociopathic. Cruelty to animals (whether obvious or plausibly denial) is always a major red flag. There is something seriously wrong with your M.
I know you live in the same house as her but is there anywhere else you and your dog could stay, even for a little while?
I hope that you will be able save enough money to get far, far away from her soon.

Thank you peanutbutter and doglady... you're awesome souls :)

I am still in my room. I haven't left it. I should be able to rent a room but I would have to leave my two dogs here. I dont think she would do anything with me out of the picture. Like you said peanut butter it feels very much like she has tried to get submission from me after a few days of mc from the last altercation.

Whether she actually wants me to leave I couldn't say. She has her new partner so maybe she wants me out of the way. But then I cant help thinking she'll definitely want the dogs out of the way without me to watch them every day. (sighs)

Anyway if it has come to where she thinks telling me to leave is the magic button she can press whenever she wants to hurt me (because it worries both me and my partner), I cant live under those conditions. I really cant.

Quote from: doglady on December 31, 2019, 04:09:13 PM
Thinking of you, Pipchick. It's very worrying that your mother is hurting your dog to get at you. This verges on sociopathic. Cruelty to animals (whether obvious or plausibly denial) is always a major red flag. There is something seriously wrong with your M.

I just wanted to add how much I appreciate this validation. It's a feeling in your gut when you know something is not merely a "mistake" not that she would admit to one anyway. But if you say this to people who haven't been there... no matter how nice they are, they always side with the abuser from what I have seen. It's not their fault, I know. Its unimaginable to them. But I need to not feel insane tonight, and you have helped so much. You and everyone who gave me support tonight on this thread. I'm so thankful for you all... I just heartily wish that you hadn't been here too with each if your foo.

An update for this thread.

Things are a lot calmer today. After realising there are actually cheaper places to live I've been trying to sort out my stuff all day.

As it turns out she has ripped all the wallpaper off the living room wall.

Eventually she sent me a text message.... from downstairs. Then when she appeared at my door I got the standard lectureb - you all know the one - about how you hurt their feelings, and how if you could just be nicer as a person.

The dog is fine, unfortunately I do have to leave the dogs here. Theres no option. But at this point I have to think about my own mental health which is already battered.

I just cant live here anymore, not even for the two year plan I had with my partner before I move out there permanently.

Nothing else to say for now. I guess I've just reached my limit. And that limit is when it doesn't just affect me. I cant have her pulling his strings as well and making him feel powerless. Thats ludicrous. Theres no way I can let that happen.

Thanks for the update.

Reaching your limit is strangely both a horrible thing, and a fantastic, freeing thing. YOU REACHED YOUR LIMIT! This is it! You're taking back your control NOW! Good job :)

Also - the wallpaper. I keep thinking I've heard it all.

Quote from: NumbLotus on January 01, 2020, 02:01:15 PM
Thanks for the update.

Reaching your limit is strangely both a horrible thing, and a fantastic, freeing thing. YOU REACHED YOUR LIMIT! This is it! You're taking back your control NOW! Good job :)

Also - the wallpaper. I keep thinking I've heard it all.

It was a horrible thing earlier and it's still a bit scary.... on the other hand something has clicked. I've made my decision and I no longer care much what she thinks, or what she thinks about what I do.

If that's a precursor i am going to feel like a physical weight has been lifted when I'm gone and i no longer have to spend my life on my tiptoes or my knees. I'm working for that now. Everything else can be sorted out.

Thank you for all you help... I really do credit this forum with getting me through. Because this forum was here i stayed sane.

I just caught up on this and want to say I'm so impressed that you stayed calm and you're making a plan to get out.

Are you going to look at flats today?

Also just read through this. You are so very strong and brave, pipchick! You can do this! Sometimes leaving is scary. You don't know where to begin, or where it will end... You've got great emotional advice here so I'll just offer up a checklist in case it's useful.

-Secure a flat, get your papers in order
-Do not tell your mom  :ninja:
-Prepare forwarding of your mail and update addresses with bank/phone/utilities etc.
-Do not tell your mom  :ninja:
-Get your things packed, now is a great time to shed excess so you have less to ferry, and even sell anything of value that you may no longer need or want to help you ease the transition financially
-Do not tell your mom  :ninja:
-If you have joint bank accounts, open one in your name only, same with your cell phone, no family accounts
-Don't tell your mom  :ninja:
-Finally, move. I recommend doing this when neither she nor her questionable male friend are home. Just be gone by the time they get back.
-Leave no forwarding address with your mom... If she doesn't know where you live, she can't bother your landlord. You may also consider whether or not you wish to warn your landlord and you boss at work that your mom is having some mental health issues and may not say nice things.

None of these things is cruel. They are for your own protection. Be safe, take care of yourself, I have faith you'll get through this! :yes:

Thank you, Brooke :)

I have my own preference, and I will phone their office tomorrow for a viewing. I can't afford a flat. It'll be a room in a shared house, but that's okay. I don't plan on remaining in the country for that long, and if not, it's ideal for saving.

Andeza, all of what you said is really helpful and practical advice - thank you so much :hug:

She's due back soon. I have a feeling in my gut she's going to try and stage one of her "interventions" tonight. I remember these from my childhood as a regular occurence. Basically, she gets everyone to put pressure on me until I completely invalidate my own emotions and my own self... but the kicker is I have to do all joyfully or it just isn't enough. It's not enough to just say it.

She's going to do this by saying I make the new partner/enabler/supply feel like he can't be in the house when I am there.

I could write it all out line by line. This is just how it was when Dad was alive. When she'd finished yelling at me, she'd get my enabler Dad to gently "explain" why I was a bad person, and why my feelings don't count. These sessions would last for literally hours and hours.

That's what's changed recently, I think, on reflection. She's got a carbon copy of my Dad and so now she wants me go back to my place as the scapegoat.

I don't know whether to go out or something. But I don't drink, so it's not like I can go to the pub. I can't walk in the dark. I can't waste money on the cinema.

It's a dilemma.

If going out isn't feasible (and while I strongly support your savings, 10 quid at the cinema tonight might be an incredibly WISE use of money), can you get food in your room and go pee and anything else you have to do, and lock yourself in, prepare for banging in the door and put headphones on and breeeeathe?

Or maybe rethink the cinema. Sometimes they don't kick you out if you stay for another showing in the same seat. The pub won't kick you out if you order a soft drink.

If you are trapped into the intervention, stay strong. Or sarcastically confess your sins with a smirk. Or don't respond at all, even to screaming. Or say "here we go again with your batshit crazy" and name every tool she uses against you ("ah, projection, and a very creative use of it too."). Anything to keep from breaking your spirit.

Also,,, is a women's shelter an option?

I think I'll just stay in my room and refuse to be drawn out of it. I'll say I'm busy with helping a friend out.

Good. Do you have everything you need (food, drink, something to do, any meds you take in the evening)?

Yes... all sorted out. She already tried my door and went away again. It was locked. Only a couple of hours to bedtime for me. I work earlies

Hang in there.

Quote from: pipchick on January 02, 2020, 01:17:10 PM
I think I'll just stay in my room and refuse to be drawn out of it. I'll say I'm busy with helping a friend out.

So glad your still safe! You are doing so great! I dont blame you at all for not wanting to expose your partner and your relationship to her. Myself and my partner couch hopped (with all our friends) for a while just to escape pd parents. Im so glad youll be able to afford a room.
'Calmness is everything' JERRY WISE
If you can if you have to talk to her about the intervention even if you dont feel calm, fake it, so she cant feed off of your emotions.
I am wishing for you a peaceful evening.

Quote from: pipchick on January 02, 2020, 02:15:24 PM
Yes... all sorted out. She already tried my door and went away again. It was locked. Only a couple of hours to bedtime for me. I work earlies

Yay! 

Hope you're okay today.  :bighug:

I am sending you positive thoughts and encouragement. May you have as much peace as possible as you hunker down and plot your escape. You are worth finding a safer, saner environment.

Thank you Duck, Brooke and peanut butter  :)

Today's update.

I have to be honest. I've been through the wringer a bit today going back to blaming myself again (habit of a lifetime!)

Speaking of habit, I noticed earlier because I used to smoke. The psychological urge to forget the latest piece of upset feels exactly the same as the psychological urge to smoke. It honestly does. Which to me says it should be resisted at all costs. I wont smoke again because I'm not an idiot. I wont forget either.

The end of the day doesn't seem as hopeless. I went to look at a room today. I dont need luxury, just somewhere peaceful to rest my head that is easy for me to get to work. I have another one to check out on tuesday afternoon.

It's all going to be okay. And I think once I am away, a lot if things will seem easier, brighter and more hopeful. I'll be capable. I just need to prove it to myself, then I can do almost anything I want.

What you say about smoking makes sense to me. I used to be a heavy smoker. One time I saw the actress who played the mom from that 70's show talk about quitting smoking. She said all these emotions bubbled up, and they were way more than could be explained by just the frustration of quitting. She thinks people stuff away their feelings when they smoke, and that rings true to me. When I smoked, I was steeling  myself against reality.

I hope the room you see on Tuesday is comfortable and affordable for you. I'm glad you're resisting the urge to forget the latest abuse as you deserve so much better.

Good luck and keep us updated!

Thank you so much, Duck and Brooke :)

I am optimistic today.

Here's an interesting question for you all, though. In escaping an NPD parent, I am getting this absolute certainty coming from my brain in the form of a directive - Do NOT Engage! I know the many reasons not to, the biggest one being that it's pointless, and I know that at the moment of my leaving I will instantly become the most evil, nasty, spiteful, ungrateful child that ever existed... all of that is inevitable. But I wonder...

Do they believe the stuff they spout? I mean, not that it makes any difference, I guess. I just wonder exactly how much self awareness there is.

I'm probably going down a really unhelpful mental path here. I'll stop. Right now.

In other news, the fridge is not working. I noticed this as far as a couple of months ago, that it wasn't getting cold, but that it was intermittent. I told her about it and I got that reaction: the pulled face like I've just done the most disgusting thing imaginable (likely existing), and the brush off: Don't be stupid... Or I think on this occasion it was that general sound of annoyance that means so many things, all rolled into one: I'm not listening... I don't believe you... You're worthless... I'll decide everything... you're just determined to ruin my day/my life etc... shut up...

This kind of thing has happened so often that I know she will maintain the brush off right up until the point where the milk for her tea is... lumpy. And even then, she'll still find some way of invalidating what I said before. If her mood is bad enough, she'll act as if I made it happen by saying it.

Does anyone else get this? Like... what you think/believe and say is so unimportant that the PD parent will literally suffer to prove it?

Yup, the world revolves around them, therefore it's not true unless they say it is. Even if it means making themselves sick on bad food. To add insult to injury, she'll probably find some way to blame you.  :sadno:

I highly recommend not eating anything out of that fridge. I grew up in hurricane prone areas, we would load a cooler up with ice and use that while the power was out. Sometimes for days.

Happy apartment hunting!

Quote from: Andeza on January 07, 2020, 10:36:21 AM
To add insult to injury, she'll probably find some way to blame you.  :sadno:

You're not the only person to say that. I am blessed to have such great people around me. Thank you so much. :hug:

Quote from: Andeza on January 07, 2020, 10:36:21 AM
I highly recommend not eating anything out of that fridge. I grew up in hurricane prone areas, we would load a cooler up with ice and use that while the power was out. Sometimes for days.

Happy apartment hunting!

I won't eat anything. I got a sandwich today. I use longlife milk so I'm fine :)

My dad has OCPD. A common trait among such persons is demand resistance. Unless it comes from him, he won't want to do it. He'll resist just because a request came from someone else, even if it is logical and he might have done it, anyway. He likes to say, "You don't tell me!"

Quote from: Duck on January 07, 2020, 01:33:11 PM
My dad has OCPD. A common trait among such persons is demand resistance. Unless it comes from him, he won't want to do it. He'll resist just because a request came from someone else, even if it is logical and he might have done it, anyway. He likes to say, "You don't tell me!"

That sounds very similar indeed. There's a lot of ignorance and invalidation tied into these things too, isn't there? It's like nothing you say is true, nothing you say means anything, and nothing you say matters. I hate to say I learnt that lesson really well. :(

Anyway... update for today!

We had to move the viewing to this afternoon instead of yesterday, but I've been looking today and provided I meet requirements, I'm going to take one! I'm feeling ... Hm... weirdly hesitantly jubilant. I guess it's a mixture of feeling that I can get away, and I really can do it! And also... terrified of how my mother will react when I make the announcement. That feeling you're doing something very wrong for which you will be made to pay for ever and ever. I'm calling time on that one. It's there, that feeling, but I'm not letting it influence what I do.

I'm jubilant. :)

I'd advise not telling her if at all possible. She'll figure it out when she sees all your stuff is gone. I don't know if her schedule allows this to be possible, but if she's at work you may very well be able to get everything out of the house while she's on shift.

So proud of you for this major step forward in taking care of yourself. You are a person deserving of basic human decency and respect, and she's not doing that, for sure.

I am rooting for you and really look forward to an update! Does she call you on the phone? This might be a good time to make sure she's blocked or get a new  number so you don't have to deal with ridiculous phone calls. (I myself must occasionally clear out all my blocked voice mails so my box doesn't fill.)

Quote from: Andeza on January 08, 2020, 01:10:40 PM
I'd advise not telling her if at all possible. She'll figure it out when she sees all your stuff is gone. I don't know if her schedule allows this to be possible, but if she's at work you may very well be able to get everything out of the house while she's on shift.

So proud of you for this major step forward in taking care of yourself. You are a person deserving of basic human decency and respect, and she's not doing that, for sure.

I feel like it's cowardly, but that's exactly what I plan to do. Hire a man and van to move my stuff while there's only me in. I'll tell her when I give her the housekeys. It's just... I know it's not cowardly. It's sensible, considering... but at the same time. Ugh... I am not looking forward to the moment, I'll tell you that. But by then it will be too late. All the drama in the world won't stop me from walking away and spending a peaceful first night out of the house.

Courage, Pip!

Oh... and in other news we are now on day 3 with a none working fridge. Still not a word. Nor from her partner who seems also to have partaken in the delusion.... and I know he has a cheese sandwich every morning. Good lord. And mum has just had a yogurt that has been unfridgerated for three days. I'm amazed at how utterly insane it all is.

There's no way it's escaped her attention... or his.  :unsure:

No way.  :no:

Experience is a hard teacher, and fools will have no other.

If they prefer to live in denial, it's their food poisoning, in other words. Food poisoning off of dairy or meat is the absolute worst. Ah well, it'll be their bathroom hell, not yours.

And no, it's not cowardly, it's self preservation. If they knew you were moving out there would be no end of drama and guilt trips, probably complete with somebody pounding on their chest wailing "why are you doing this to meeeeeeeeee!"  ::) Because it's all about them, not your mental health. *sigh* If I could release you from feeling cowardly or guilty I would do it in a heartbeat, sadly we must each do that for ourselves. You're doing good, stay your course!

I think when you think it's going to seem cowardly, you are listening to the PD voices in your head.
It isn't cowardly. It's called being independent and proactive, neither of which they like.  Yes  with a healthy family dynamic you would have told them in advance. This is the trouble.
They are in denial about the dysfunction, so you have that to deal with  :yeahthat: and THEN when you necessarily respond to that dysfunction by keeping stuff from them, they are shocked because they've brainwashed you into behaving  as if the family functions healthily.
They don't know you've seen the light through the fog.

My FOO do this as well. They still don't realise. I don't live with them and I'm so glad I don't.

Lord almighty if they can ignore a warm fridge with rotting rancid food, of course they are going to pretend the family is fine!
When you give her the keys, make a sharp exit. You don't have to stand there and take the dismay and whatever, Make a sharp exit, have a taxi waiting and leave.
Then enjoy the rest of your life! X🐾🐾🐾🐾🐾⭐️💫⭐️💫⭐️💫!

If *you* feel the need to give her the keys by hand, that's fine. But don't forget, you can leave them in an envelope on the table with a short note.

I was thinking about the whole "coward" thing. Everybody has already covered the main point, which is that it's a PD voice, and you are absolutely entitled to protect yourself, and you are being brave, not cowardly, in doing so.

But the thing that also occured to me is that you shouldn't HAVE to be brave! Why is moving out something you have to take on the chin? Oh, I know why, but the PD world is so screwed up. You feel like a coward for not standing in front of a bus so it can hit you, but the weird thing is NOT that you don't want to get hit by a bus (of course!) but that somehow in a PD's screwed up mind, you are required to? Like taking hard punishment is a step of moving out that most adults face up to?

Moving out should be like, "great, honey, I'm glad you found a place. Is it nice?"

Yes I agree too with numblotus that you can just leave the keys in an envelope.

You don't have to give them your new address either. Don't let them get all entitled around you!
Remember, there's only one person who can judge our behaviour and that's us, our own selves.

You've been to hell and back. I found your thread quite tough to read.

I've had issues with my parents but I wasn't criticised at four years old like that. I'm an Early  Years teacher( retired now) and I  want to hug that little girl on the stairs, and tell her she's amazing, cute, funny and lovely, all the things I tell my grandchildren now and used to tell my children.
So here you go!  :bighug:

I agree with those who say it is not cowardly to keep moving out a secret. You are not dealing with a normal situation.

Thank you, everyone... all of your words are so encouraging :hug:

Update for today:

I might have a room. I have to pass all of their reference checks and stuff. I hope I get it, since it looks like the best place by a country mile.

Doubt keeps surfacing a lot. Then at work this morning I understood why. There have been no hostilities, and it's strangely calm. I keep wondering why, then doubting myself.. ie. maybe it's all me? At last it strikes me that she thinks she went for the submission too soon. She thinks she's just got to wait for me to forget it/accept it, and when I realised that it all makes sense. As soon as I do that, I'm giving her the hit she really wants, because by accepting I'm taking the blame for everything myself, leaving her to go away as the victim. That's what she craves. That feeling of zero responsibility while being able to pour all of that blame into me.

She knows something is going on. My renewed passport came today. I submitted my documents and hope they will be enough. I've moved the furniture I will take to one side of my room and am packing up my belongings. She keeps digging but I don't really say anything substantial. She asked me if I was moving my furniture around (because this is what she does when she's NOT HAPPY) so I said yes, I just didn't tell her I was moving it further than from one side of my room to the other.

Last night I tried to be in the room with them, but I had a staggering physical feeling of being completely drained, to the point where I was drowsy. When I left the room it lifted.

I have to get out of here. Doubt or not. I don't accept it, I won't forget, she won't get what she wants ever again. I am worthy and I don't deserve this. I need to find the person I was supposed to be all this time.

That is great news!
Onward and upward toward your new life!  Keep us posted on here!
We have your back, and we understand. You'll be fine! 😊xx

Thank you nanotech!  :)

I just got: "Name I dont know what you keep locking your door for. It's ridiculous."

Yeah... if it's that ridiculous, how can it bother her? She hasn't been able to poke about while I was at work earlier today.

Yeah, the fact that "you keep locking your door" means she keeps trying the darn knob.

Thanks Andeza. First time I've spoken to her today. I dont want to go out of my room again. Guess I'll keep my mind busy with the packing up.

Oh and I edited. "Licking" my door would be a bit surreal lol

Quote from: pipchick on January 11, 2020, 01:14:48 PM

Oh and I edited. "Licking" my door would be a bit surreal lol

;D I'm glad you still have your sense of humor!

I'm sending positive vibes that you get that room. You are going to feel a huge weight lifted off you when you get out of that toxic atmosphere.  :thumbup:

Hugs and positive sister vibes too! Keep strong! Things will change soon! Xxxxx❤️💫❤️💫❤️💫❤️💫❤️

Thank you Brooke and nanotech... I am finally downstairs on my own and able to use the computer - yay!

I'm a touch typist, so using my phone is really alien, and comes with a load of dubious spellings and autocorrect going insane. Like wanting to call nanotech, nanotechnology.

I'm about to have a really long entry here, but earlier today I was thinking back, and remembering those "interventions" and it made me feel... sad for my child self. I remember her getting my Dad involved all the time. "xxx, don't let her do that." "xxx, stop her." "xxx, explain to her." And I remembered how she would sit there, like a spider in the centre of a web, looking at me, and how she would say it each time. "I want you to say sorry for what you did, and you had better make me believe it." The 'what you did' was always so unspecific. I was always in this impossible place of saying sorry, without really knowing what for, only knowing I had to be convincing. I spent a lot of my childhood not knowing how to make moments move. I got stuck in them constantly. I still do, now. I have so much brain freeze. I hope that if I get away that can improve.

People pleaser doesn't come into it. Numerous people have told me, most recently my partner, that I apologise for nothing. All the time. He tells me about it when it happens, and it makes me realise. I'm so broken at the moment.

I did have a question for you folks, but I've forgotten it now. If it comes back to me I'll ask.

Anyway, i was listening to an audiobook and I'm keeping a recovery diary type thing with things written in it. I though I'd share some of those here in case others find it useful, and for my own reference too.

So there are things I won't detail, which are good advice for people going through this. So far these things are:

• Get to know yourself
• Understand what you need to work on to recover
• Write down what your ideal mother is like, and realise this is the mother you deserved, that you are grieving for
• Understand the five stages of grief
• Write a 3rd person narrative of your childhood so that you can make it real and validate yourself for what you endured
• Learn to validate yourself
• Learn to recognise your feelings, name them and respect them
  

Then there are these five steps:

• Know your self beliefs and identify needed changes
• Understand the abuse cycle
• Build and indentify a support network
• Prepare for the emotional experience
• Find a therapist

1) My list reads like this so far: I am incapable of taking care of myself, I am not good with money, I am undeserving, I am ugly, I am worthless and a burden, I am stupid, I am of no consequence, my personality is flawed, I make people feel bad, I ruined my mother's life, I am fundamentally unwanted, I am nasty, I am disgusting, I can't do anything right, my thoughts and feelings are a bother and an annoyance.

2) The abuse cycle I have identified is largely:

QuoteMom creates a conflict (because she feels threatened, or she overreacts, or just because)

Atmosphere is established by provoking a negative response which she then exploits, magnifies and mirrors.

This only ends when I take full responsibility for the whole thing, regardless of what the conflict began with. If it began with me bumping into her in the hallway while she was carrying tea, it's not just that. It's the whole thing. It's all the bad feeling she created. I have to be responsible for that.

She gets a "hit" of not being responsible for anything, despite the exact opposite being true. She can then also be the injured party and will tell family, friends and acquaintances how horrible I am in order to create what I am going to call 'Attack Dogs'

Repeat

She also heavily gaslights, triangulates, disrespects me, discounts my emotions, my sense of self and worth. Ignores me. Steals my thoughts and ideas (repeats things a few minutes after I have said them - I wish I was kidding). Takes credit for my talents (everything that's good about me, I get from her, and she can do it better she just can't be bothered). She is sometimes pointlessly cruel. She intimdates me and terrorises me. Consistently and continually trashes my reputation to others, be they family, friends, or people she sees on the bus. She sends attack dogs once created, sometimes for no reason (once she wound my aunt up to such an extent that she publicly humiliated me in a pub garden for no reason, encouraging people to laugh at me while I cried. My dad and brother had committed suicide the year before. It was my first holiday since finding them. I was twenty-five.) Humiliates me in front of everyone, including strangers, even as an adult.

To be continued...

So here I am, continuing....

I won't go into 3, but rest assured that Out of the FOG is on my support network list. If there are other online spaces that we're allowed to discuss, I'd love to hear about them :)

4) As I get away, I expect to feel the following:

• Unease
• Loneliness
• Sadness
• Compassion
• Having my mother's feelings instead of my own
• Uncertainty
• Fear
• Distress
• Loss and grief
• Guilt
• Obligation

But I also expect:

• Freedom
• Relief
• Peace
• Joy
• Happiness
• Comfort
• Possibility

Additionally, since I have to leave my dogs, I need to expect all the grief and sorrow that comes from that. Plus every single mutal acquaintance. Family... I never see them anyway. I will let them all go. It's that important.

5) I have taken steps to find a therapist.

For your dogs, you could look into a foster situation where your dogs are cared for until you can provide for them. 

Quote from: Medowynd on January 12, 2020, 03:51:20 PM
For your dogs, you could look into a foster situation where your dogs are cared for until you can provide for them.

Thank you Medowynd :)

I did just look into that, but I can't afford it, since you can't foster a dog out. You'd need to go for boarding. I'm moving into a room with shared amenities because I can't afford much. Besides, taking the dogs would only hurt her more and I don't want to do that. Not a bit of this is about hurting her. It's about saving myself.

In the summer, she was staying out four and five days at a time, but she does at least come home now (athough this is because new man's apartment got flooded). My dogs are also 12 and 14. Even if there was nothing else to consider, and I could afford it, I don't think such a move would be good for either of them. In this case, taking them away from the only home they've ever known would be for my benefit, not theirs. I don't believe she will neglect them once I am gone. I do believe if I hesitate now, once new man's apartment is back up and running she will use them to trap me here, just like this past summer.

You are doing amazing things!   I just wanted to add to expect some anger, if not actual rage on behalf of your younger self.  As you begin to accept your worth as a human being, you might also feel anger that your parent couldn't see how delightful you were.  That abuse was unwarranted and unacceptable and it still is!  Hold yourself gently as you will feel the full panoply of emotional reactions.  And remember that your feelings are okay and what you need to feel in order to heal.   

Thank you, Outsiderchild! :)

Ah, a bit of anger came up earlier today. I find I struggle to separate anger from upset, so I just end up in tears. I hope with a therapist that will get easier.

Update for today:

Still waiting to hear about a room.
The more I do in my room the worse it looks.
All I know is I can't stay here, and I need out soon.

A memory. I told my partner about it, and as I did it amazed me how I had made excuses for this over the years. I still think of it every now and again, and I think this is because we never receive the validation of our emotions and thoughts as they connect to these things, so they just keep turning up, like eyeballs in our soup. Over the years as I've brought it up I've had the brush off, time and time again. I suspect if I brought it up today, she'd at last claim not to remember it at all.

I was around ten or eleven and it was christmas. I'm getting on a bit now so this was some time ago... it was about that time when as a kid you dreamed of having a tv and telephone in your room. I wasn't quite there, but nearly. As I opened my presents, one of them was a television. It wasn't big (or even in colour), but I was so happy and excited. I was actually overjoyed. Only... that isn't what it was.

Oh, it was a television all right, but it wasn't actually mine. My parents had bought it for themselves, wrapped it up for me to open, then they claimed it immediately... that very day. They didn't say so, of course. They took it and set it up where they wanted until I had no option but to surmise. Until my child mind understood what they had done. I became terribly upset. My brother got a tonka truck the same year, iirc.

Getting upset was not allowed. I was forced to sit down and apologise over and over for upsetting my mother, and for being a horrible, ungrateful child. The more upset I got, the worse it got, until I was told I had ruined christmas. I didn't really remember the details until today. I just remembered the tv. But I'm learning to trust myself more now, and to trust in my recollections. Because someone has to validate my child self, even if it's only me.

So today I was angry. More and more, I am coming to realise that my father was not as blameless as he always made himself out to be. He enabled her at every turn, and he was not a stupid man. He must have known what it would do. He must have seen what it did as grew up quiet and timid and hidden away. He claimed to love me. I wouldn't treat a stray dog like that.

It also occurred to me today that she made an error. She wanted new man to be the new collaborator, counting on the fact that because he was around when I was little, I would accept it. I still have some undiscovered personal pride, then. Because he is essentially a stranger, and her showing off and involving him has caused me to see t hrough her for all time. It's over. She just doesn't know how over it is yet. She will. And I may think of her again... but I have had a lifetime of MH issues due to her, and to my Dad. I know how to distract unwanted thoughts.

Today... I am angry.

Update:

I have a space to move into. I wanted this one particularly, because it's unfurnished. I think having my own bed and my own furniture around will be good for me as I let go.

Having been in what felt like purgatory for the last couple of days, I now feel energised and ready to go forward again.

I also have arranged to meet with a therapist on Monday.

After everything is finalised on friday, I will ask the post office to redirect my mail. Even though I may move my things, I will not reveal I have gone until I am sure my post is being directed where it should be.

But... feeling good after a lot of uncertainty.

Today I got some boxes and tidied all my things away into those boxes.

Freedom is close, which is good because I feel sure the longer I hang around here, the more dangerous the moments of doubt become. No. No more. It's over. I have to live now.

Quote from: pipchick on January 14, 2020, 09:15:36 AM
I know how to distract unwanted thoughts.

I want this to be something safe and healthy for you.

Quote from: NumbLotus on January 15, 2020, 01:19:31 PM

Quote from: pipchick on January 14, 2020, 09:15:36 AM
I know how to distract unwanted thoughts.

I want this to be something safe and healthy for you.

I'm sorry. I was just angry right there. I never did really understand what to do with anger. I think I usually end up turning it inward. I dont know how to change that. But I can ask the therapist how to change it.

Don't be sorry :bighug:

Speaking for myself, I find anger very uncomfortable. I went through a period of anger when I was grappling with my situation, and I hated it. It was foreign to me, it frequently didn't make logical sense to me, and it just plain felt crummy.

But I feel like it was a good and necessary step to go through. You have every right to be angry. Let it power you forward.

I've realised that I used to be a mixture of calm exterior, but rising to anger/ resentment at times, either with those I love or over silly things that happened at work etc. It was residual anger I think, from how I was treated by my FOO.
I've worked on this a LOT and I'm miles better!

Therapy, Yoga, Mindfulness, and of course,  Out of the FOG have all helped me so much.

I can still get angry, and a little anger isn't always a bad thing, but I don't do that ' victim' thing I got fond of, where I would moan and groan and  whinge and complain, but I would  never resolve anything through carrying out any actions for change.

Pipchick you're doing it! You're the oppoosite of me because you are calm and yet taking the action required  to improve your life. Go you! And good luck on it! Keep serene and keep firm too! ❤️

I'm working on anger right now. My therapist is helping me. I hate feeling angry because it is very uncomfortable. I was not allowed to express it when I was young. A vast sea of anger was redirected inward over time. I am learning to think of anger as a flag alerting me to something I need to know. It says hey! Something's happening! You may need to take action!

Additionally, my parents were really religious and basically trained me to believe anger is morally wrong. (Unless dad is angry. He can do whatever he wants.) So I feel a sense of guilt on top of the discomfort. But there are lots of times anger is appropriate and important like if someone is being harmed and needs protection. I am slowly feeling and expressing more anger.

Quote from: NumbLotus on January 15, 2020, 02:38:24 PM
Don't be sorry :bighug:

Speaking for myself, I find anger very uncomfortable. I went through a period of anger when I was grappling with my situation, and I hated it. It was foreign to me, it frequently didn't make logical sense to me, and it just plain felt crummy.

But I feel like it was a good and necessary step to go through. You have every right to be angry. Let it power you forward.

It seems like anger is necessary, but also an issue for many of us, even if those issues manifest in different ways. I guess we never learnt to deal effectively with it. If we are assertive people, what remains to make us angry must be expressed and let go. To me that seems like a healthy model (easy to say!). But we have been taught to repress our anger, that it isn't acceptable, and when we do dare to feel it, we are ashamed at our inability to assert ourselves (especially against our PD parent) and remove the cause of it. It's a minefield!

I'm glad you did get through that step, Numblotus, though I am sure it must be an ongoing thing. We have to consciously learn and do things that most people experience as innate.

Quote from: nanotech on January 15, 2020, 07:28:29 PM
I've realised that I used to be a mixture of calm exterior, but rising to anger/ resentment at times, either with those I love or over silly things that happened at work etc. It was residual anger I think, from how I was treated by my FOO.
I've worked on this a LOT and I'm miles better!

Therapy, Yoga, Mindfulness, and of course,  Out of the FOG have all helped me so much.

I can still get angry, and a little anger isn't always a bad thing, but I don't do that ' victim' thing I got fond of, where I would moan and groan and  whinge and complain, but I would  never resolve anything through carrying out any actions for change.

Pipchick you're doing it! You're the oppoosite of me because you are calm and yet taking the action required  to improve your life. Go you! And good luck on it! Keep serene and keep firm too! ❤️

Hi nanotech :)

Oh, I can quite imagine it! I am a very political animal, and I have been from being quite young, and it occurs to me that because my mother doesn't care about that, it's a channel for me. So I get too angry about things, and then become too upset to do anything about them. Some balance needs to be struck somewhere. So I can very easily understand that feeling you describe. Where you can't express it with your FOO, the emotion itself comes out somewhere else. I'm glad you've recognised it and have worked on it.

As for the victim mentality... I've heard this described as 'fleas' that we've picked up. Think about it, When it comes to coping with things, the prime example you've had has been... yep. It's not surprising we need to learn new coping skills.

I am not the opposite of you. I am the same as you, and I look to where you are with hope. We can get away, we can be okay and we can thrive at last. :hug:

Quote from: Duck on January 15, 2020, 07:35:34 PM
I'm working on anger right now. My therapist is helping me. I hate feeling angry because it is very uncomfortable. I was not allowed to express it when I was young. A vast sea of anger was redirected inward over time. I am learning to think of anger as a flag alerting me to something I need to know. It says hey! Something's happening! You may need to take action!

Additionally, my parents were really religious and basically trained me to believe anger is morally wrong. (Unless dad is angry. He can do whatever he wants.) So I feel a sense of guilt on top of the discomfort. But there are lots of times anger is appropriate and important like if someone is being harmed and needs protection. I am slowly feeling and expressing more anger.

Hey, Duck :hug:

I'm really glad you have someone to help with this. Anger is the hardest emotion I think, because it can't be reasoned with or logiced away - it just is. But you are also right. It's a very good warning system. We have been taught for so long not to listen to our instincts and to ignore what our inner selves try to tell us. It's like we have been trapped in a glass box, and our inner selves are there, silently hammering on the glass and screaming. Maybe this is why it makes us uncomfortable too. We've become aware, we know we should have been listening, then we're afraid the glass won't hold, because who knows what happens then?

I think, in the end, it will be okay though... for all of us. As long as we are aware (in so much as we are capable), we must heal. Your anger is not wrong, Duck, morally or otherwise. It's valid, and rational, and I'm really glad you are making progress with it. I like that idea of approriate anger, and I agree 100%!

Update:

I have keys!!!!

Woo!

Soon... the soonest I can get my stuff out is wednesday. I arranged a mail redirect today.

I keep feeling happy, and I mean... weirdly, deeply happy. Like it will last. Like not a sticking plaster happy. Something more... real.

This is then immediately followed by a big dollop of guilt and fear.

She's going to go ballistic. She's going to be hurt.

It's very hard to keep realising I have to let that go. If this was a normal situation (for a start I wouldn't be moving out, but if I was), she'd be encouraging me, and making sure I knew how to do all the things I'm going to need to do. I wouldn't be sneaking around feeling horrible about it.

I have now organised for a moving company to take my stuff wednesday.

I have organised broadband.

I'm a bit jittery now. I only lost important paperwork once.

 :woohoo:

You are going to be fine. It's ok to feel jittery. Jitter away!
You are starting your own life. You are a grown up and your mum will come to accept that.
Yes she might act hurt and you might get some meanness directed at you. You'll get all
of those FOG buttons pressed.
Remember it's her negativity, not yours. Try not to let it grip you. She's an unwell person and she wants to maintain the status quo so she can keep on controlling you.

Be a moving target.

Remember, don't let her interrogate you,  either face to face, or by phone.
If you don't manage not to get questioned, you don't have to give any details of your new life.
Remember,
'No' is a complete sentence .
'I don't know', is a complete answer to any question. 

You can say,
' I can see why you might feel like that,( sad, hurt etc)  but I'm a grown up and I have moved out.'
If you get accused of ' sneakiness' or 'being deceptive' etc, just say that you can see why they/ she might think that but that wasn't intended at all.
You were just looking into the possibility of  moving, you thought it would be a while before you could, then suddenly this place popped up and  so wow, you were able to take action, and it all came together amazingly quickly.
Just keep repeating that stock statement.
Don't go into any more detail, don't JADE.
She will try to trample the new boundaries you've set.
Don't feel guilty or obliged to make her feel better. You are not responsible for her happiness.
If they bring up any negatives/ possible problems that might arise,  just say ' I'll deal with that'  or ' I'll get back to  you on  that'  or ' it's all in hand'. Don't get into circular arguments.
Remember they have no right to demand explanations from you. Good luck with the move! It will be fab!  XxxxxxX

Thank you NumbLotus and Nanotech :hug:

Nanotech that is all amazing advice, and I've read through your post quite a few times because when I do it helps me come back to the point when my head is flying away with something that is really irrelevant. I am certain I will be looking over it again, often, in the days and weeks to come. Thank you so much. :)

So I've been all over the place. Veering from fear, to guilt, to relief, to happiness, to dread. To doubts. But for each doubt, when I remember the thing that made me finally see through it all, I know there isn't a single thing in this world that can make me stay. There is literally nothing that is a good enough reason to stay for more abuse. Nothing. It's not psychologically safe.

Anyway, so yesterday I went to the flat after work. I sent her a message to say that I was going out with a workmate so that she didn't wonder where I was.

Now on the whole I don't go anywhere except to the gym in the morning and to work. So I'm watching her behaviour now instead of being triggered by it as she:

* sends me a text back to say that the dogs have been fed, and she's visiting her sister (she's not even in to care anyway, and she has people to be with too)
* sends me a text at around 5.30pm to say she isn't coming home that night (this is a punishment... maybe for having the nerve to be "out" at all)

We had a... "discussion" in the summer about her not coming home, even at night, for days on end, and leaving me with the dogs to care for 24/7. She got huffy and didn't talk to me for two hours before shouting and demanding to know what I "wanted" while playing the martyr, and then finally agreeing, after a long circular discussion where everything was all my fault to "allowing" me to go out on certain days. Meaning she would look after the dogs. And I keep mentioning the dogs, I know, but they do need taking care of. They aren't my dogs in particular, though I refer to them that way because I love them. They're the responsibility of the house, therefore both of us, or they should be. This past year, I finally understood she's used them to trap me.

I have to say, I know how this works now, and I am amazed at it. Who does this? If this is what I have been living with all this time, there's no wonder I am a mess.

And as a last parting shot, her visiting her sister means that she has been smearing me all day (and now all night too). Though that's better than when she goes out there and comes home so drunk that she passes out in the hallway, because this time, there was no way I was going to be looking after her while she was all beligerantly drunk. That's never going to happen again.

Then last night I had nightmares about her. She was getting married (again) or something, and I was running around trying to sort things out but nothing was ever good enough and everything was my fault, and I think we got to the part where the entire day was a ruined mess and it was all because of me before I woke up.

I feel... meh, today.

This is fantastic for you! I am proud of you as one surviver to another of how you just got up and did all of this in such a short time and with grace and dignity. You are starting a new 'book' about your life. I wish you soooooo many blessings. You deserve great and wonderful things. And it sounds like you have opened the door NO you have tore down the walls of your prison to sweet freedom and happiness!
You are doing AMAZING pipchick! :cloud9:

Thank you PeanutButter :hug:

I needed to read that. I feel like now the moment is almost at hand I'm losing my nerve... because of the dogs. Shes going to threaten to 'get rid' of them, the same way she did when I asked if I could go out some days.

And this morning I was thinking that I'm being selfish and it isn't life or death.... but of course it is. Now that I see it, it is. I don't have a friend here in this house. I'm not stupid enough to believe it cant happen to me. I've seen it nice and close. Hell of a lesson.

Then suddenly that quote popped into my head from The Terminator... here it is... adjusted:

QuoteListen. Understand. That narcissist is out there. It can't be reasoned with, it can't be bargained with...it doesn't feel pity or remorse or fear...and it absolutely will not stop. Ever. Until you are dead.

My inner voice is helpful but it has a weird sense if humour. I've been giggling since I thought of it. :D

I wrote a whole post called the Terminator and other people have referenced the movie before so, we get it. :) Paul Walker wrote in his book about cPTSD (which is great) that often when we feel guilt or shame it means that we're doing the right thing, because we're actually overcoming the ridiculous beliefs we've been taught. I think you know that you're doing the right thing here and will be so much happier once you've moved.

Quote from: Psuedonym on January 20, 2020, 10:58:58 AM
I wrote a whole post called the Terminator and other people have referenced the movie before so, we get it. :) Paul Walker wrote in his book about cPTSD (which is great) that often when we feel guilt or shame it means that we're doing the right thing, because we're actually overcoming the ridiculous beliefs we've been taught. I think you know that you're doing the right thing here and will be so much happier once you've moved.

Thank you Psuedonym, and you are right. Reasons keep popping up, but there is literally nothing that can justify staying in this environment for a moment longer than necessary.

As for the dogs, the best I can do is advise her (if she tries) that if she intends to use them to threaten or manipulate me, including making me feel guilty, then I will just block her number and email and go NC immediately. Therefore, whatever she does she won't be able to use to hurt me because I simply will not ever know she did it. If she goes that way, NC is the only way I can protect them.

Update:

I had my first therapy appointment today. I had to be quite assertive right away, and explained my fears about being invalidated. I said that I did not ever want a moment of doubt to be used to encourage me to "try" again. My new therapist was good about it, and as the session began, she brought up the term "emotional abuse" before I did. I am sure that this is going to be a very helpful professional relationship for me as I try to untangle my emotional self and soul, and "deprogram" myself.

Two more days. On wednesday I move. I literally cannot wait.

I am not sure how well I am doing at medium chill. The whole house feels like a pressure cooker when she is in, and I'm sure some of that is me. But the truth is medium chill is really hard when you're grieving that idea of her, and the her that is really there has hurt you so often and so long... and she's still doing it. It makes medium chill difficult to be sure. I just find I don't want to be around them, not even for like five minutes, and I don't want to say anything to new man. He's made it crystal clear we aren't friends by joining in her bullying of me, so there's not much to say. None of this is any of his business in as far as it relates to me. My partner says he is (among other things) an empty suit of clothes.

I have my new gym across the road from my flat, and I have joined. I have everything ready to go. It's like christmas eve! I can do this. I can take care of myself. I'm worth me taking care of myself. I'm worth it!

(tosses hair)

Yep. lol.

Today

She did not go to work. Nor did she tell me she wasn't at work the night before when I was sitting in the lounge with her. If she is at home tomorrow, then she'll have to witness me moving my stuff because I won't rearrange it now. Next week, my piano teacher will help me by picking up my piano to store at his shop, and I will be able to come in and practice there during business hours.

We shall see what happens. I have to remember JADE, no matter what.

 :cheers:
You are almost there.
I LOVE that terminator quote. I had never heard that before. But oh so true!
Do you think M is trying to 'catch' you or figure out what you are up to by staying home from work?
I suggest saying that you "will figure something out later" and not letting her 'use' the dogs to emotionally blackmail you to stay. You may have to leave them behind. You HAVE to save YOURSELF IME first before you can help anyone else.
Im so glad the counseling went well.
Good luck!!

You are KICKING ASS and TAKING NAMES.

This random Internet stranger has had Wednesday on her mind - knowing it's a big day for you.

Thank you, PeanutButter and NumbLotus :)

I'll confess here that this is very big for me. I've only lived away from her twice in my entire life. Once as soon as I could get away from home at 18, but my coping strategies at that time involved copious amounts of alcohol, so that went about as well as you can expect. Also, I ended up in a relationship with a pillock (surprise!)... so I ended up back home, bruised and battered. Literally.

The second time was just after my Dad and my brother checked out. I managed about a year at work before I got so depressed I was nearly catatonic and couldn't do anything anymore. Back home for me... where I've been ever since.

Why do I think I'll make it this time? Because I've figured out that my mother is not good for my mental health for starters. I don't drink, and haven't for the last twenty-five years. I am aware of what self-sabotage is, I see when I have engaged in it in the past, and I know I can learn to do all the things I need to... like budget. Seems like half the battle is valueing oneself enough to desire it deep down, not just on the surface where the words are, but also in the parts of yourself that have no words. With the aid of my new therapist, I can find ways to work on that.

It's going to be good. And peaceful. And I'm going to want to fight for that, for it to continue.

PeanutButter... I think M was hoping I'd ask her why she wasn't at work this morning, then she could demand to know something in return. Also, I think she wanted to feel powerful by having information that I wanted, because I think it's been the other way around lately. Unfortunately for her, I went out in the morning and didn't say where I was going, since usually she'd have been at work anyway, and she isn't really talking to me because she thinks that still works. She actually probably thinks it's pretty clever to be silent with me while she has new man to laugh and joke with. She's deliberately isolating me, but I'm too busy packing up my stuff to care much.

Either there will be a confrontation tomorrow or there wont. I hope there won't, because the only one of us who would relish the drama is her. I just want to be free. I don't want to hurt her, or punish her. I just want to be me. Just as soon as I find out who 'me' really is.

I like walking.. a lot. And woods. And music, and sewing, and knitting, and horror stories. Good start. :)

Ive heard on this forum 'once you see the PD for what they really are, you cannot ever 'unsee' that".
If she confronts you maybe you can just 'observe' her behaviors while presenting calmness. Dont worry if it goes imperfectly. Just keep yourself physically safe. You dont have any responsibility for what she does.
I too experienced learning to value myself as totally life changing. I have joy now on a daily basis. I never thought I could be so blessed and happy.
This is long overdue for you and as you said hard won. YOU DESERVE peace, love, and happiness!
:banana: :banaaana: :phoot: :elephant: :boogie: :party:

such progress pipchick!

i do need to lock the thread as it's over 5 pages.

here's the link if you want to add it to the new thread to keep the backstory
https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=82315.msg719754#msg719754