How do you know if your therapist is helping or making things worse? I've gone weekly for a few months. I feel worse for days after seeing her. The sessions involve me venting and being upset about the NC with parents, the abuse that led to the NC and some FOC issues. She says very little and sometimes encourages me to say more (vent more). She hasn't said anything helpful or thought provoking. She hasn't given me any real advice. She tells me that she can't tell me what to do. I have to decide everything for myself. It just feels like an hour of venting that makes me more resentful.
Should I have homework or is therapy for PTSD/PD abuse just months and months of venting about how frustrating and unfair life is? I think therapy is actually making me depressed!
I feel worse after some of my therapy sessions. It's hard work and you look at things you've spent your life avoiding.
That said you should feel comfortable with your therapist and the sessions should feel like you are moving forward rather than venting. My therapist always stops me when I start venting. It's not productive for me or the session.
A therapist isn't supposed to give you advice. They are supposed to listen and guide, to help you identify your unhealthy patterns and then you choose new healthy ones. A therapist of more of a guide than anything else.
I do sometimes feel resentful of the time and money in some sessions but I've been in therapy for years now and I see that those are the times I'm resisting doing the work.
For me I had a lot of learned helplessness and victim thinking from my upbringing and abusive marriage so it took a long tike for me to see and acknowledge that only I could help myself. For those of us who aren't used to being seen and heard it can take time to build a rapport and open up.
That said you should feel comfortable with your therapist and there are a lot of bad ones out there.
Thanks. I don't feel like we're moving forward at all. It really seems like a vent session where I feel worse and more sorry for myself for days afterward. We don't come to any conclusions other than it seems best that I should stay NC. She hasn't pointed out any patterns. The only thing I've heard lately is that it's no surprise that I am having difficulty making friends because other parents don't want to make friends with parents of kids who are "different". Mine have adhd and anxiety. I shouldn't plan on making adult friends until they graduate. :stars: She claims it's not fair but reality. I'm not sure I agree.
Sorry you are going through this..
I don’t have a therapist, so I can’t offer much help there, however I do not ‘vent’ or reflect of the past. I purposefully focus on my self worth, the future and my family. I’m not defined by anything in my past, or who anyone thinks that I am.
I know who I am, and I have a great, happy future - because I deserve it.
Anyone that has a different opinion can go to hell.
You are what you eat; so eat happiness, well being and a positive future!
I've never been to T, so I really don't know what to expect, but I'd like to think it would be more than an hour of me venting. :wacko:
I mean...I can do that here, for free. Or I can vent to my journal or my DH, too - and again, they're free. :bigwink:
I know your T said she can't tell you what to do, but have you asked for coping strategies? Tips to help make you feel better? Advice on how to not get so wound up that you feel badly for days afterward? Hell, even a good recipe for pot roast would be welcome - I think venting, over and over, about the same thing really isn't very productive, and you'd probably be better off with that pot roast recipe.
If you ask and the T offers nothing, I'd find another T.
If, for ANY reason, you don't think this T is a good fit, you have the right to vote with your feet and find another. You owe the T *no* explanation. You just ask for your records to be transferred, and that's that. :ninja:
Just know that whatever you decide is the *right decision.* :yes:
:hug:
I am sorry therapy is making you feel worse. It is perfectly ok to go see a different therapist. After you tell your therapist your history with your family, your therapist does need to give you feedback and suggestions regarding your situation. That is what you are paying the therapist for. Ultimately how you deal with your family, is your decision, but a good therapist can help give some new ideas and insights on things you hadn't thought of before. A therapist also needs to help you learn how to set emotionally healthy boundaries with your family. Before you see a new therapist, interview them on the phone. Find out if they have some personal experience in dealing with personality disordered people etc. I don't know your situation with your family, and whether you were abused or not, but if that is your situation, it really helps to see a therapist who is a survivor of abuse themselves. They will then have a better understanding of the dynamics of abuse. Another resource is to go to Psychology Today and put your zip code in. A list of therapists in your area will come up. Look at each therapist's specialties. Pick a therapist who might be a match and then do the phone interview.
Another thing that was crucial to me in my healing was gaining knowledge. Knowledge really is power. :righton:
I read online articles and books about personality disorders, smear campaigns, gaslighting, love bombing, trauma bonding, darvo etc. Having knowledge of how to set boundaries and the different types of manipulations helped me deal more effectively with my family of origin. It is also important to work on self esteem because abusive parents often destroy their children's self esteem in order to maintain power and control. YouTube has some great videos on dealing with dysfunctional families. At the the bottom of this page you will see Kris Godinez, Meredith Miller, and Little Shamon. They were very helpful and educational to me in my healing journey. In some ways they were even more helpful than counseling, because they are survivors too. The survivors who write articles, books, and do YouTube videos are the ones who really get it because they have been there. At any rate, these are things that are helpful to me. I hope it can help you and others too. Take care. :cool2:
Any therapist who believes that interacting with a specific person is key to your healing is going to be a waste of time. I had a therapist who took me back to my childhood which was painful ..... but where I do go to next. My parents are not going to apologize for anything.
Try to identify some problems that you have ie saying no to unwanted requests; dealing with people who are rude to you. You should be thinking about strategies on how to manage those situations. Including anticipating when they might happen so that you'll be ready. Maybe going back in time might helpful or at least interesting as to why you have those problems. I finally realized that I was often late because my parents made me late for many things when I was growing up and also as an adult since visiting my parents required having a car or else you're begging all the time. I was treated as if I was unimportant including times when my waiting was not in the safest of places.
You should try an assertiveness training class. You learn strategies to avoid behavior that you don't through role play.
I read here and there that some people have had good experiences with a therapist. I have not.
Hi Sydney, I'm sorry you are feeling this way. Oddly enough I was at therapy today and kind of discussing similar feelings to yours with my therapist. So she said that it does feel like you can be going round and round in circles as that is the way you 'unpick' stuff. It can seem like slow progress but you are unpacking years and years of this stuff. We talked about 'advice' too, as I keep asking her for advice about things. She kind of explained that a therapists role is to help you find ways to understand your behaviours and learn new strategies. So they help you to be able to make decisions and decide what you want for yourself as opposed for them telling you what to do. To me therapy is like having someone to shine a light on things so that you can see them in a different way, make sense of them and understand how things have affected you, why you feel the way you do, and what to do to act in your own best interests. I think it's uncomfortable because you are dredging up things you have squashed down inside. Not all therapists are created equal though so if you have been going a while and feel 'stuck' then if the therapist doesn't have any fresh ideas/suggestions for trying some new techniques then maybe it's be worth trying someone new, if you can?
Disclaimer: I've only just started therapy, but I've done a lot of reading to prepare.
A lot of people find that for PTSD, talk therapy is less effective than some other modalities. If you felt a strong rapport with your current therapist, I'd suggest asking her whether she's trained in anything more action-focused, like CBT or DBT. As it is, you might want to consider seeking out someone who specializes in trauma and asking them at your first session what they offer besides talk therapy.
Mamadryad that’s a great observation. I’ve been in talk therapy for a few years. I’m finally at the point where I’m digging into my upbringing and what that drags up. I now feel the need to work on my trauma / c-ptsd symptoms. I am currently transitioning away from my therapist. I credit her with saving my life and showing me what’s possible, but I need something different to take the next step.
We have been working on this and I will move from weekly appointments with her to once monthly while working on other aspects of my healing.
I am beyond grateful for my therapist and her support and focus on my healing. Many therapists wouldn’t do what she is doing in terms of the continued support after I said her approach wasn’t what I needed.
I was so against therapy when I started. I remember asking what the difference was between her and talking to friends over drinks other than the cost. She said that she was someone who would listen and be an impartial guide. At the time I thought that that was a wishy washy bs “therapist” thing to say. Turns out it was exactly what I needed.
I think hiring a therapist is like hiring a personal trainer, except they are a "mental" personal trainer.
One of the first questions a personal trainer will ask is, What are your fitness goals? What are you trying to accomplish? Run a marathon? Get into shape? Adopt a healthier lifestyle? What, exactly?
I think you need to set your goals with a T, just like with a personal trainer. What are your goals? Do you want to maintain NC? Do you want to try to balance a relationship with your enD and your PDm via VLC? Are you okay with your children still engaging with your PD parent?
Secondly, are the goals you set realistic? If your goal is to run a marathon, what kind of shape are you in? How old are you? Have you ever run? What is your timetable?
With a T, are the goals you set realistic? Have you researched PDs enough to know that relationships with them are one-sided? Do you except you will have a relationship with give and take, or compromise-- when in reality this isn't likely going to happen? Are you mentally able to withstand the ostracization that comes with going NC? And The Smear Campaign? And the many, many lies?
So once you set your goals, and assuming you've done the research so they are realistic, how qualified is your T? Are they well-versed in PDs? Or is their expertise in "family counseling"? I don't think you can expect good results from a T that is not familiar with PDs. It's sort of like expecting you will be able to meet your fitness goals with someone who is not very trained in the field.
If you have done your homework and are in touch with a T that is trained or skilled in personality disorders, and if you have communicated your goals to them, and if those goals are realistic, I think it's their job to help you try to reach those goals. That's what you are paying them for. If they are not able to deliver in a timely fashion, probably time to move on to another T. :yes:
Thanks all. I think I need to discuss goals with her again this week. We discussed it at the beginning. If we don't see eye to eye, I think she isn't a good fit.
Getting Out of the FOG says that she was concerned that it wouldn't be more helpful than talking with friends. That's exactly what this feels like. I vent to someone I don't really know for an hour. She asks questions just to clarify who I'm talking about and then at the end she tells me that she feels sorry for me, but this is how it is. Things with my parents are never going to change. Things with my lack of social support aren't going to change. I thought therapy could help me find different ways to deal with it. She just makes me feel more hopeless.
Maybe since I've already decided to go NC and don't plan to change, there isn't anything she can help me do. Everyone I know said therapy would help with this transition. Help with the loss and grief. I feel like going NC is having both parents died at the same time. I thought I needed help to process that. Do people go to therapy for help with the emotions after NC?
I stopped therapy and went back after I went NC with my siblings.
Once a week for a few months is really not enough time to see major results. You have a life time of feelings to work through. Feelings you are skilled at avoiding as you needed this skill to survive. No one who goes NC with their parents had a non-traumatic childhood.
I don’t know you and can only judge the situation based on what you post on this thread. Your situation resonates with me as I felt many of the same things you mention feeling, so I will say this: like me it seems like you are resisting the process, it seems like you expect a quick and easy fix. Therapy only works if you are willing to do the work and accept that only you can make changes. You (one) needs to listen to the therapist, acknowledge one’s role in where they ended up in their life and be willing to make hard changes they don’t want to. My role was that I avoided feelings, I had no boundaries and I let people take advantage of me. I was very passive on my life and I had very few interpersonal and social skills as anything I did as a child that got noticed was punished. I learned to be a people pleaser and a victim, that was my identity. It took years of therapy for me to be able to see this and make changes. And I felt horrible during most of the process. It’s not easy unpacking the things that make us who we are. It’s it easy to look back and see that our parents didn’t care for us the way they should have. And it’s really not easy coming to realize all the opportunities we missed out on because of how we handled things.
A good therapist will not push you to look at things you aren’t ready to. It seems to me that the issue is that deep down you don’t want to be in therapy. Again, I say this as that was how I was. None of this may be the case for you, but if you were my friend venting over drinks this is what I would tell you.
Quote from: Sidney37 on November 20, 2019, 07:15:11 AM
... I think I need to discuss goals with her again this week. We discussed it at the beginning. If we don't see eye to eye, I think she isn't a good fit.
I do think you need to be aligned as far as goals. I also think that your T works for you, helping you to achieve those goals. It's important that
you be the one to set those goals, though, as it's your life and, ultimately, it's what you want to accomplish here.
Quote from: Sidney37 on November 20, 2019, 07:15:11 AM
... I vent to someone I don't really know for an hour. She asks questions just to clarify who I'm talking about and then at the end she tells me that she feels sorry for me, but this is how it is. Things with my parents are never going to change. Things with my lack of social support aren't going to change. I thought therapy could help me find different ways to deal with it. She just makes me feel more hopeless.
It's true your
parents are likely not going to change. But
you can. You can absolutely change your response to the situation.
As far as your lack of social support, I'm a little unclear what your T meant by your lack of social support isn't going to change. You can control who you let into your life. You can shut out your parents, or go VLC. You can do the same with FMs or extended family members who unwittingly get caught up in the drama. So
you control who you let into your life and who you decide to spend your time with.
If your T is saying that you will likely be ostracized by your extended family and friends, yes. It's very possible that many in your extended family will align themselves with your PD parent and shut you out, thereby leaving you with lack of support. But you also have the ability to make new friends, construct a new "social support" network. Yes, this takes time, but there are many opportunities out there to make new friends and acquaintances.
From what you have posted, your T paints a very bleak picture about your social opportunities, and I don't agree that "that is the way it is and there's nothing you can do about it." No. Absolutely "No".
Quote from: Sidney37 on November 20, 2019, 07:15:11 AM
Maybe since I've already decided to go NC and don't plan to change, there isn't anything she can help me do. Everyone I know said therapy would help with this transition. Help with the loss and grief. I feel like going NC is having both parents died at the same time. I thought I needed help to process that. Do people go to therapy for help with the emotions after NC?
Going NC is a major event. It's a measure of last resort. It's like "I've tried and tried and tried to have a relationship with my PD parent, but it's no longer sustainable. I realize that there really isn't a 'relationship' there, in the normal sense of the word. They just take, take, take and I give, give, give. I'm not putting up any longer with this abuse and I'm going to forge my own path in life. Period."
So yes, there is a grieving period that you didn't get the parents you should have gotten. An acceptance that
life isn't fair. A final giving up-- with NC-- of the frail hope that things will change. These are all bitter pills to swallow.
I go back to my other post to you, Sidney37, that if you don't think you are getting your money's worth with your therapist, it's time to call it quits. That said, make sure you have realistic goals here, that your therapist is on the same page with you, and your therapist has had experience dealing with abuse victims of personality disordered parents.
You might consider taking a break from therapy, reading and researching PDs and the grieving process, and see how it goes on your own. My own personal thoughts are that Ts are great if they provide you with guidance as how to navigate the rough waters you are currently traversing, but if you are feeling like your T is an impediment, rather than a "coach", ditch them and go it alone for awhile-- at least until you can find someone who is a good fit.
These questions you are asking here are important and relevant.
Put these concerns to your therapist. See what's said.
There's an assessment period.
When I had therapy, my therapist took a long time before she began guiding- I'd started to wonder too, but it was fine.
They really have to soak up ALL of our stuff first.
Then she started to give me the tools to work with. Advice too, and validation.
It's hard coming to terms with it all. My therapist turned out to be marvellous.
Quote from: Sidney37 on November 18, 2019, 08:41:44 PM
The only thing I've heard lately is that it's no surprise that I am having difficulty making friends because other parents don't want to make friends with parents of kids who are "different". Mine have adhd and anxiety. I shouldn't plan on making adult friends until they graduate. :stars: She claims it's not fair but reality. I'm not sure I agree.
Seriously? Ah...no. Making friends as an adult with kids is hard. We are all so very busy, but it's not in any way because your kids are different. :doh: When I moved to a new state I had to try really hard to get myself to talk to people at all. At first I made myself talk to one new person each day and one person I'd talked to before through the first half of the school year, then I started volunteering at the school. Now I have lots of school parent friends and many of them have kids that are 'different' from anxiety, to being non-binary, to autism/learning disabilities. Having kids that are different doesn't matter, at least not if they are actually friends. I'd read your therapist the riot act on that one. And if that is the advice they are giving on friend making, I'd wonder on all other advice too. Good luck with forming friendships.
I meant to answer a few days ago but squirrels got into my head and took me elsewhere! This is basically what I was thinking, but I think Illogical stated it better than I:
QuoteI think hiring a therapist is like hiring a personal trainer, except they are a "mental" personal trainer.
One of the first questions a personal trainer will ask is, What are your fitness goals? What are you trying to accomplish? Run a marathon? Get into shape? Adopt a healthier lifestyle? What, exactly?
I think you need to set your goals with a T, just like with a personal trainer. What are your goals? Do you want to maintain NC? Do you want to try to balance a relationship with your enD and your PDm via VLC? Are you okay with your children still engaging with your PD parent?
Secondly, are the goals you set realistic? If your goal is to run a marathon, what kind of shape are you in? How old are you? Have you ever run? What is your timetable?
I've seen a few therapists over the years, usually more to get me through an immediate situation than anything long range. By far the most effective did just that - they asked and talked to me about what I wanted or needed to do *for me*. I can't change mother and venting about her frankly gets real old real fast plus dredging up a lot of old bones I'd rather not. Having a more focused plan on what I needed to do for myself was very helpful. I never had boundaries and it was time to make them, figure out what was and wasn't acceptable for *anyone* in my life and how to stop the unacceptable. I shut down when I should speak up, needed to change that. I never ever told her no or held back information without a battle royal, I had to face that in reality there was nothing she can do to me anymore. And I was lonely, painfully lonely at times - what could I do to change that, expand my circle, stop making excuses and/or cancelling plans at the last minute.
I've thought about how to respond to this. While it might be the experience of others that they resist the process of therapy or are looking for an easy fix. I've been in and out of therapy for various more immediate issues for over 20 years. Most all of those therapists have been very helpful. Unfortunately, when it is recommended that I listen to this therapist, that's difficult to do, because she has very little to say at all. I literally vent for an hour and she says that she'll see me next week.
It struck me that after writing this and thinking about the situation that DH and I are culturally very different than the people where we are living. We're the same race, but grew up in a different area of the country with a totally different culture. The therapist was born and raised here. She seems to be relying on this major cultural difference to insist that I am not going to find friends where I am - no social support. I was talking about the isolation I was feeling with the NC, a husband who works out of town quite often and 2 kids with very low levels of special needs - think nerdy, quirky, with adhd and some social anxiety (from living a place where we culturally don't fit). No autism or anything severe. She insisted that it's the case everywhere that if you have quirky kids, you can't make friends with a any parents of "normal" kids because they don't want to be friends with you! That's the culture where I am and part of why I'm feeling so isolated. I thought maybe she'd go through the list of trying a class, joining the PTA, church, volunteer work ,etc. Nope... just it's not fair, but don't plan on making any friends here till your kids graduate. Go visit your old college friends across the country. :aaauuugh: I guess it's good that she was up front about it. Maybe my bigger issue is where I'm living and not the therapist!!
She also insists that she's treated daughters of PDs, but she keeps on insisting how bad she feels for enD to the point that it's starting to make me feel guilty.
I went for EMDR, but after 3 months we haven't started it yet. Is that typical? I guess I'll talk to her about a plan, because right now, I'm feeling more and more frustrated every time I leave her office.
I've been to talk therapy and psychoanalysis and didn't find either very helpful. When I was still reeling with some some of the trauma talking about it definitely made it worse. One bit of good advice I received once was that "learning how to direct my attention away from the negative memories may be more helpful than continuing to revisit them". This makes sense from a neuroscience perspective, reliving memories strengthens the connections in our brains that support the memories, learning how to stop reviewing them will in turn weaken these connections and make the memories less intense.
CBT and DBT are interesting, I fall more on the side of brief solution focused interventions at this point. I never really stick with a therapist for more than 6-8 sessions anyway as they're expensive and I usually reach out when I'm in a particularly difficult spot.
There is also movement within some public funding models to support solution focused interventions as they are more cost effective while also having some evidence of outcomes. Here's a website with more info about the approach https://solutionfocused.net/what-is-solution-focused-therapy/
I remember a friend telling me that her husband was not happy with therapy. He wanted more interaction from the therapist. HE concluded that the sessions were like staring matches. I fault the therapist for that. Maybe the T can collect their fee for the session, it doesn't solve the patient's problems.
Quote from: Sidney37 on November 22, 2019, 01:51:54 PM
...It struck me that after writing this and thinking about the situation that DH and I are culturally very different than the people where we are living. We're the same race, but grew up in a different area of the country with a totally different culture. The therapist was born and raised here.
... She insisted that it's the case everywhere that if you have quirky kids, you can't make friends with a any parents of "normal" kids because they don't want to be friends with you! That's the culture where I am and part of why I'm feeling so isolated. I thought maybe she'd go through the list of trying a class, joining the PTA, church, volunteer work ,etc. Nope... just it's not fair, but don't plan on making any friends here till your kids graduate. Go visit your old college friends across the country. :aaauuugh: I guess it's good that she was up front about it. Maybe my bigger issue is where I'm living and not the therapist!!
I think that saying you can't adapt to a culture is blaming an exterior element as the cause of your problems. It's like putting people/places in a box. "I can't do this because THEY ARE ALL LIKE THAT."
Sorry, I don't subscribe to putting people or places "in a box." It's self-defeating. It assumes that ALL PEOPLE are a certain way. No, they aren't. I try to judge people on how they have treated me. Maybe those you have encountered have treated you a certain way, but that's not to say they are ALL like that where you live. You have to keep trying and not give up and not think that everyone where you live behaves a certain way.
That type of thinking is "Stinkin' thinkin". It's black and white thinking. It's saying that everyone is a certain way and so I can't fit in. But it's not like that. Time to expand your horizons and move outside the box. If I truly thought I was "trapped" in an environment such as you are describing, I would move. Far, far, far away. But I don't think you are trapped. I think it could be your upbringing, your brainwashing by your parents that makes you think that way.
Quote from: Sidney37 on November 22, 2019, 01:51:54 PM
...She also insists that she's treated daughters of PDs, but she keeps on insisting how bad she feels for enD to the point that it's starting to make me feel guilty.
It doesn't sound like your T is very good, quite honestly. Her total sympathy for your enD tells me she is not very aware of the role he plays in the dynamic. Sure, he can be viewed as a sympathetic character. He can also be viewed as a person who is very much involved in the dysfunction and has a choice to leave-- like you-- but chooses not to. That your T thinks that about your enD would be a big red flag for me.
I've lived countless places all over the country and adapted just fine. I can't count the number of kid people who have moved to the area where I am and left as quickly as they got here because the people here, can't "adapt" to anyone or anything different than what they know. Frankly I find your observation offensive.
As to why I haven't moved far, far, away. There are countless reasons financial and job related that have kept us where we are.
And with that... I'm done here.
Hi Sidney37,
I'm sorry you were offended by my post. That certainly was not my intent, and I wish you well.
For what it's worth, Sidney, I was thinking much the same as Illogical. For this therapist to state outright "... it's not fair, but don't plan on making any friends here till your kids graduate. Go visit your old college friends across the country." Seems harsh and negative to me, particularly so when you're there seeking guidance. Sounds like *her* box is pretty damn small and needs some expanding.
Quote from: Sidney37 on November 22, 2019, 11:17:34 PM
I've lived countless places all over the country and adapted just fine. I can't count the number of kid people who have moved to the area where I am and left as quickly as they got here because the people here, can't "adapt" to anyone or anything different than what they know. Frankly I find your observation offensive.
As to why I haven't moved far, far, away. There are countless reasons financial and job related that have kept us where we are.
And with that... I'm done here.
I also thought the comments were a bit over the top. It's my understanding this forum isn't about pathologizing others.
Quote from: theonetoblame on November 23, 2019, 02:06:27 PM
,,,I also thought the comments were a bit over the top. It's my understanding this forum isn't about pathologizing others.
theonetoblame, I am assuming this comment on "pathologizing" is directed at me.
Black and white thinking, a form of cognitive dissonance (known colloquially as "Stinkin' Thinkin'") is not a disease. It is a form of fallacious thinking-- a mistaken belief that there are no "shades of gray". Unlike a disease, it can be corrected. Many engage in it. I, myself have engaged in black and white thinking.
The problem with thinking that a group is ALL, rather than SOME is that it can be self-defeating. One can think they are trapped, because "everyone" in the group is out to ostracize or isolate them, when in reality, it is only some that think this way. It is an over-generalization. This can deepen anxiety and depression. It can be a real obstacle to conquering fear.
I am very sorry that you think my post was demeaning to Sydney37. I did not in any way mean to demean her, but rather to point out that this type of thinking-- i.e., black and white thinking-- can lead to painting oneself into a corner. Thinking there is no way out, that ALL in a particular group are out to sabotage, rather than SOME in the group, can lead to increased anxiety and depression. My personal feelings are that Sydney37's therapist only added to her anxiety about isolation by telling her she had no control over the situation. And then from what she posted, she bought into the mistaken belief that she had no control over making friends in her community.
Perhaps focusing on the topic of the thread (the challenges with the OP's counselor), rather than targeting your perceptions of problems within the OP, would have been received better. The tone of your post to me is also pushy, I don't like it.
There tends to be quite a bit of 'advice giving' on this forum, some of it just comes across as pushy and inappropriate. It's not my job to stand up for the OP and she has already done the healthy thing i.e. set a boundary and walked away. I'll do the same.
Quote from: Sidney37 on November 18, 2019, 05:30:14 PM
How do you know if your therapist is helping or making things worse? I've gone weekly for a few months. I feel worse for days after seeing her. The sessions involve me venting and being upset about the NC with parents, the abuse that led to the NC and some FOC issues. She says very little and sometimes encourages me to say more (vent more). She hasn't said anything helpful or thought provoking. She hasn't given me any real advice. She tells me that she can't tell me what to do. I have to decide everything for myself. It just feels like an hour of venting that makes me more resentful.
Should I have homework or is therapy for PTSD/PD abuse just months and months of venting about how frustrating and unfair life is? I think therapy is actually making me depressed!
I found a T specializing in Trauma work. She uses EMDR, and somatic work to identify the emotions and sensations attached to the "stories." I"ve found there's a huge distinction between the Ts that practice art, somatic, and EMDR work.
My T explained we ARE traumatized when we're forced to talk about our trauma over and over. She has me talk about a story ONLY until I've identified the emotions and sensations in the body.... then we put the story on a shelf, and turn to the emotion and sensation only.
We put a number on it... 1-10.
We go through protocols that help
1. Move the trauma OUT of the fight or flight center of our brains... the reptilian brain/suvivla brain, so it can be processed, and placed in historic files where it belings.
In order to help our brains DO this, we reduce stress in the brain, and body. We learn how to reclaim our biology, which is hijacked when our survival brain's kick in.
Breathing deeply, and slowly sends signals to the brain.... "There is no crisis... we are safe.... there's no danger."
THis makes it possible to access our frontal lobe.... higher thinking brain.... the part invovling logic, creativity, and problem solving which is all it takes to help our very efficient brains do what they do best... process in micro seconds, and file that information.
It's feels like magic, IME.
Search for Ts who specialize in Trauma work, art, EMDR, and somatic work. You will find someone who can explain how th brain works, what it needs to move the trauma OUT of your daily life into your history files. It's real. It's a relief. It's what all Ts should be doing with patients processing trauma, IME.
You don't have to continue suffering like this.
I had lots of pieces of the puzzle.... I just needed someone who knew how to put them all together, explain them, and guide me through what it takes to move traumatic events OUT of my amygdala, story by story. Sometimes you can clear many traumas in one story. You don't have to tell every story, thank God.
Good luck,
Just a general aside - please remember this is a peer to peer support forum. Support comes in many forms and we may not always agree with some of what is provided or perhaps the manner in which it is worded. I honestly believe that much more often that not, what is shared here is well-meant and not intended to hurt anyone. We *always* have the option to take what we need and leave the rest.
That said, I too have an objection to people being placed in boxes - separated, isolated, even condemned as "other." Having one's therapist tell one that "you'll never make friends until your children are grown etc" is an awful thing to say, and I fail to see the purpose in it. It IS stinkin' thinkin' and holds people back from better things. It's defeating and isolating and even feels mocking to me, more so when said to someone who is already struggling to find her way.
Sidney, I resent the therapist's comments and am appalled anyone said such things to you. You deserve better
Quote from: illogical on November 22, 2019, 08:57:29 PM
Quote from: Sidney37 on November 22, 2019, 01:51:54 PM
...It struck me that after writing this and thinking about the situation that DH and I are culturally very different than the people where we are living. We're the same race, but grew up in a different area of the country with a totally different culture. The therapist was born and raised here.
... She insisted that it's the case everywhere that if you have quirky kids, you can't make friends with a any parents of "normal" kids because they don't want to be friends with you! That's the culture where I am and part of why I'm feeling so isolated. I thought maybe she'd go through the list of trying a class, joining the PTA, church, volunteer work ,etc. Nope... just it's not fair, but don't plan on making any friends here till your kids graduate. Go visit your old college friends across the country. :aaauuugh: I guess it's good that she was up front about it. Maybe my bigger issue is where I'm living and not the therapist!!
I think that saying you can't adapt to a culture is blaming an exterior element as the cause of your problems. It's like putting people/places in a box. "I can't do this because THEY ARE ALL LIKE THAT."
Sorry, I don't subscribe to putting people or places "in a box." It's self-defeating. It assumes that ALL PEOPLE are a certain way. No, they aren't. I try to judge people on how they have treated me. Maybe those you have encountered have treated you a certain way, but that's not to say they are ALL like that where you live. You have to keep trying and not give up and not think that everyone where you live behaves a certain way.
That type of thinking is "Stinkin' thinkin". It's black and white thinking. It's saying that everyone is a certain way and so I can't fit in. But it's not like that. Time to expand your horizons and move outside the box. If I truly thought I was "trapped" in an environment such as you are describing, I would move. Far, far, far away. But I don't think you are trapped. I think it could be your upbringing, your brainwashing by your parents that makes you think that way.
I've come back to clarify what appears to be a difference in interpretation amongst several of us. After reading this many times, i believe these comments were directed at me, not my therapist. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I read this as if I was accused putting people in a box. That I am participating in black and white thinking - stinkin thinkin. It appears that theonetoblame and I read it the same way. It appears that moglow read this as being directed toward my therapist. If Illogical would clarify, it would help us to determine how this should have been interpreted.
I believe Illogical meant it as I saw it - directed at your therapist. Being vulnerable it's too easy for any/all of us to buy into that line of thinking along with the therapist. Whatever her personal opinion, seems to me her phrasing needed a lot of work. There you are pouring out your heart session after session to her, and those comments felt to me like a foot on your neck, telling you you'll never fit in or have friends there. Setiously?? Balderdash!!
Hi Sidney37,
To quote from your post,
Quote from: Sidney37 on November 22, 2019, 01:51:54 PM
... She [the therapist] insisted that it's the case everywhere that if you have quirky kids, you can't make friends with a any parents of "normal" kids because they don't want to be friends with you! That's the culture where I am and part of why I'm feeling so isolated. I thought maybe she'd go through the list of trying a class, joining the PTA, church, volunteer work ,etc. Nope... just it's not fair, but don't plan on making any friends here till your kids graduate. Go visit your old college friends across the country. :aaauuugh: I guess it's good that she was up front about it. Maybe my bigger issue is where I'm living and not the therapist!!
Moglow is correct. When I posted,
Quote from: illogical on November 22, 2019, 08:57:29 PM
...I think that saying you can't adapt to a culture is blaming an exterior element as the cause of your problems. It's like putting people/places in a box. "I can't do this because THEY ARE ALL LIKE THAT."
I meant
your therapist was saying you can't adapt to a culture, that
your therapist was blaming an exterior element as the cause of your problems. That
your therapist was putting people/places in a box.
I did think that you, Sidney37, bought into your therapist's Stinkin' Thinkin' because you didn't question her comments to you that you "can't make friends with any parents of 'normal' kids because they don't want to be friends with you."
I also thought that when you posted this,
Quote from: Sidney37 on November 22, 2019, 01:51:54 PM
... I guess it's good that she was up front about it. Maybe my bigger issue is where I'm living and not the therapist!!
that you were subscribing to the black and white thinking that your therapist was putting out there, and not questioning her, but rather blaming the people and place you were living. I wanted to point out to you that that type of thinking was likely going to add to your isolation and anxiety/depression. It was meant as a helpful comment, as I have engaged in Stinkin' Thinkin' and it has only resulted in a worsening of my anxiety.
As I stated previously, I did not mean any offense.
This may not be helpful but I have recently been reading about therapist abuse. I had a therapist who had me unpack all my trauma but never helped process it. I always left the sessions feeling so horrible that I would placate myself with alcohol. I've also had therapists invalidate me, shame me, make me feel like things were my fault, and one time a therapist started trimming her nails during our session. It's always nice to have a therapist who is experienced in trauma and will only let you unpack when you're ready and makes sure you are safe when the session is over. If your therapist is making you feel worse than when you initially sought treatment; you should definitely consider finding one who makes you feel safe enough to share your experiences with. When they are empathetic, equipped, and trustworthy to you then it might be a better fit. It takes a while to build up trust with your therapist. I've been seeing the same one for over a year now and still am dipping my toes in the water about EMDR. I'm sorry you're going through all that. I know it's a struggle and sometimes seems like too much effort. However, I swear it's worth it when you find the right one.
After decades of being in therapy on and off, one thing I've learned is that therapy is all about listening. I, too, often vent during my sessions, and I feel I've wasted time. But I've read some books about psychology (mostly self-help books, but also one or two scholarly books), and one of them made me realize that a huge part of what a therapist does, especially at the beginning of therapy, before you're ready to tackle the really difficult stuff, is make you feel safe, and make you feel heard.
I have an excellent therapist. What happens in most of my sessions is that I talk, and talk, and talk. Often, nothing happens, and I worry afterwards that I talked too much and wasted time and money. But sometimes, in the middle of every fourth or sixth session, my therapist will ask a seemingly innocuous question that will stop me in my tracks. If I don't avoid the question, it sometimes leads to a really productive session.
Therapy takes a lot of patience -- not just with your therapist but also with yourself. We all want to get better right away, but this is a process, and the process itself is valuable. In fact, I'm starting to feel that therapy is a way of learning to view one's life as a process of self-discovery rather than as a path toward a goal. If you want the therapy to progress a little faster, I would suggest doing extra work after the sessions. Try to journal every day for at least twenty minutes. This is surprisingly difficult but extremely helpful. If you're the studious type, it would also be worthwhile to read self-help books related to your situation. Each book will help you tackle your situation a little more deeply. You could also ask your therapist for book suggestions, but I find that I'm better at selecting books that speak to me than my therapist.
The only reason I would change therapists in your situation is if I felt that the therapist does not empathize with me. Your therapist does not have to be like you or come from a similar background; she just has to care. The first person I went to when I realized I was depressed was a psychiatrist who prescribed me pills but didn't seem to care about me or my situation. Later, I saw a psychologist who didn't care, as well as two psychiatrists who cared. From what you've written, I think that this therapist probably does empathize with you.
The other thing you could do is tell the therapist that you feel worse for days after your sessions and are not sure that all this venting is helping you. See where she leads you. That might signal to her that you're ready for the next step, or that her current approach isn't working and that you need a different approach. A good therapist will, in fact, tell you if they feel you're not a good match, and suggest another therapist. But, as another poster said, being in therapy is often painful and really hard work, and one's mind will often play tricks to avoid the pain and the work. Your frustration may even be a sign that you're ready to do some digging and uncover something. Good luck!
By the way, I also read illogical's post as a criticism of your therapist rather than a criticism of you. But I think that illogical is taking one statement a therapist made, as interpreted by another person, and over-analyzing it. I understand that in doing so, illogical is being supportive and understanding and taking your side, and I think that's touchingly sweet, but to me, it sounds like your therapist was just trying to make you feel understood. In other words, your therapist was possibly trying to suggest that the fact that parents of "normal" kids might not want to make friends with you is their problem and their failing, and that you don't really need them. In fact, it's these statements that make me believe that your therapist probably does empathize with you.
I could, of course, be wrong. But I would give this therapist at least one more chance before giving up on her. As I said, therapy rarely feels comfortable. If you're doing the work, you will probably have sessions, eventually, in which you cry more than you speak. Anyone who has lived with someone with a PD has a huge amount of pain to work through. If all your therapist does is tell you to join a class or volunteer, frankly, they are not helping you tackle the really hard stuff. I suppose a therapist might give such advice if they get the sense that a patient is not willing to dig deeper, but true recovery work is challenging, uncomfortable, and takes years. In other words, there is some chance that you have a really good therapist here who is going to help you do some good work.
I hope you won't read this as any sort of criticism of you. I think everyone here is trying to help, but it's difficult to convey one's emotions and intentions through words typed on a forum.
I've seen many T's and T's for my children, and marriage C's, and I have to tell you....
there 's new science on dealing with trauma in therapy.
It's nothing like what T's have done the last 50 years. Talking is, in many cases, re traumatizing, and does nothing to move the trauma out of the amygdala, into processing, then into historic files, where it belings and stops tapping us onthe shoulder asking for attention.
When we experience emotions/sensatiions connected to old trauma, it FEEELS like we're back in that place, actually standing in that place again, and it lights up the part of our brain where it lives, and can't move out bc our biology's been hijacked... our heartrate goes up, respiratory increases, tunnel vision and chemical dumps take over, and our reptiliam/survival brain is online. That knocks out pathways to our frontal cortex.... to higher thinking/problem solving/creativity/logic, and without accessing other parts of the brain, we're trapped, and stuck, and that's a shame bc our brains are efficient at processing emotions in milliseconds when given a chance.
Ts specializing in trauma don't, IME, require us to tell our stories over and over and over again. IME I touch on a story ONLY long enough to identify the difficult emotions and bodily sensations attached to the story... then we put the story on a shelf, and focus on just the emotions/sensations.
We bring up something that needs attention, we process it, it stops coming up, over and over, and it's DONE.
That's how trauma T should work, IME. That's new, and amazing, and not difficult at all. Ts that tell us something has to be hard, or is hard, or will take time.... aren't aware of the most recent T treatments.
If I could go back, I'd seek out 3 people in my life I didn't know I needed. One of those people would be a Trauma T.... the ones' doing ART, EMDR, Tapping, and Somatic work.
The hard part is figuring out it's not difficult, IME.
The hard part is finding a competent professional to look us in the eye, send compassion, and help us reconnect to what we were when we were born.
Enough.
Whole.
WIthout all the layers of junk other people put in our heads.
We are fine, just as we are. Once our brains and bodies remember this, we know our true worth, we arrive, we are home.
I hope that looks and sounds odd, bc it's completely different than what traditional Ts have offered, IME.
It's new brain science,and we don't know a whole lot about it, but what we DO know is available, helpful, and should be the first line of treatment Trauma Ts reach for, but so many don't.
I think most do what they originally learned, despite how helpful, or not helpful, their treatment plans are for their clients.
If you're wondering if you have the right T.... you haven't met the right T yet, IME.
Look up words like Somatic, ART, EMDR, Buddhist and Ts specializing in Trauma. There out there. I know bc I've found 3 of them in recent months. One for me, and I'm interviewing 2 for my dd.
I've seen a T specializing in Somatic work, but that was just one piece of the puzzle for me. All the Ts seemed to have one or fewer pieces only. The new Trauma T has all the pieces, and puts them together in different ways, as I need them, and keeps handing them to me in ways that make sense, bc this is hard to make sense of when we're in distress, in fight or flight mode, switched, meaning our Sympathetic Nervous Systems are in charge, fueling fight or flight mode.
This is biology, mindfulness, neuroscience and neuroplasticity.... and it all comes up at once when we're under stress, and must be teased out, and met, tended to with compassion, and non judgmental focus, which is quite a trick with all the crap we've been told about ourselves by the world.
As we tend to these issues, we build new pathways, and gain more time to respond, rather than react compulsively, which is our default setting.
Once we know better, we can do better.
Again, I do hope this all sounds odd, bc it's too rare, and too amazing not to be shared with people who can feel better while gaining skills and knowledge to do this for themselves.
Our memories aren't set in stone. We can change them. Every time we open them up, like software in our brains... we change them. Every. Time.
We have the ability to replace them with new ones, finallhy resolving the pain, and unprocessed issues. We've know this for years. I don't understand why Therapeutic Treatment modes haven't moved ahead with the research, but I'm the very happy benefactor of it.
I'm with you Hhaw.
EMDR is interesting. I know for myself that when I start to go down the ptsd rabbit hole reliving bad memories that my vision will fixate on a point in space, I'll sort of tune out and my nervous system will just start revving up. I've learned to spot this behavior very early in the cycle and immediately start to shift my gaze and to use my own internal CBT type techniques to move my thoughts on to something productive. Once shifted, I'll then focus on my physical arousal, do some deep breathing, get grounded etc. The more I do this, the better I get at it (to support your comment about neuroplasticity).
I've also come to understand that most of my arousal (I expect this is different for everyone) emerges in response to imaginary conflicts with my perpetrators that I begin to construct in my mind -- I start body bracing (body wide muscle tension) and preparing for the conflict. As I let go of ever resolving these issues following a path of conflict it also became easier for me to redirect. Now my path is one of releasing, letting go and acknowledging that my life is actually quite good. I do good things in the world, I have good people in my life, I'm stable and secure i.e. there is no threat! so I don't need to imagine one.
Historically PTSD and other types of therapy for phobias etc focused on desensitization. The idea was that through repeated exposure to the stimulus a person would eventually become desensitized. It was really only about a decade ago that PTSD interventions started to pick up the idea of Hebbian neuroscience principles, the idea that neurons which fire together wire together. The reverse is also true and neural networks decay over time if they aren't continually activated. This is a very modern perspective. I've taken some counselling courses over the years and these ideas were never even glanced at in the curriculum, I think the training of therapists really needs to change. It's difficult though when so many counselors are trained to believe that reflective listening is best practice. If you reflect my trauma back to me it just becomes an echo chamber and I never move on... from a Hebbian perspective it just strengthens the trauma wiring in my brain.
Quote from: theonetoblame on November 25, 2019, 04:18:45 PM
I'm with you Hhaw.
EMDR is interesting. I know for myself that when I start to go down the ptsd rabbit hole reliving bad memories that my vision will fixate on a point in space, I'll sort of tune out and my nervous system will just start revving up. I've learned to spot this behavior very early in the cycle and immediately start to shift my gaze and to use my own internal CBT type techniques to move my thoughts on to something productive. Once shifted, I'll then focus on my physical arousal, do some deep breathing, get grounded etc. The more I do this, the better I get at it (to support your comment about neuroplasticity). Yup.
I've also come to understand that most of my arousal (I expect this is different for everyone) emerges in response to imaginary conflicts with my perpetrators that I begin to construct in my mind -- I start body bracing (body wide muscle tension) and preparing for the conflict. As I let go of ever resolving these issues following a path of conflict it also became easier for me to redirect. Now my path is one of releasing, letting go and acknowledging that my life is actually quite good. I do good things in the world, I have good people in my life, I'm stable and secure i.e. there is no threat! so I don't need to imagine one. And that's the thing... when we're gtriggered, and IN fight or flight survival mode..... we perceive a very real threat, and that threat IS REAL to our brain, and biology. We have to ask ourselves.... am I responding to this moment, or a different time in my life? When I spoke about something with my T she asked if that was me trying to resolve an old issue.... was I BACK THERE, in the original trauma moments trying to resolve them, SEEING THEM, or was I present in her office in that moment? I really had to think about that to discern where I was, or where my brain thought I was.
When we dream the brain can't tell the difference between the dream and reality. It's the same with old traumas popping up in our amygdala... the brain KNOWS we're back in that crisis, under threat, and it responds, the body responds, biology is hijacked.... we're THERE, for all practical purposes.... except we're not... really. And it's affecting our lives, and living in that reactive mode means we lack the ability and time to choose a response that brings us more of what we really want.
I wanted to stop walking around with my fists up. I used to drive in a fighting stance.... a chiropractor told me my body was twisted into a permanent fighting stance. I couldnt' turn a corner without finding my fists at my chin, and I didn't remember putting them there. It was all reptilian fight or flight survival stuff, and I didn't have anything left to shoot but adrenaline... my adrenals were shot.
If I'd known to seek a true Trauma Specialist, I could have whacked 10 years off this healing safari, IMO. I've been all around the track, picked up up a little about a lot, then finally FINALLY found someone to put all the pieces together, along with the latest brain science and trauma therapies..... I just wish I'd have known sooner.
Historically PTSD and other types of therapy for phobias etc focused on desensitization. The idea was that through repeated exposure to the stimulus a person would eventually become desensitized. It was really only about a decade ago that PTSD interventions started to pick up the idea of Hebbian neuroscience principles, the idea that neurons which fire together wire together. The reverse is also true and neural networks decay over time if they aren't continually activated. YES!
Heavily used neural pathways become covered with fat called myelin, which accounts for the "white" brain matter, and also makes those pathways super fast... our default settings. The body is very frugal with myelin, and fat is moved from neural pathways we aren't using as often, and moved to those we are. For me, that's brain intengration work, and more about building up, and tearing down pathways. What I'm more interested in now is processing unprocessed information in milliseconds.... just.... done. Taking stress off the brain, which is what the brain integration courses were about too, but with the EMDR it seems to me, and has been my experience, that relief can be achieved in an hour or so, and be permanent. No transfer of fat, just removal of the stuck unprocessed emotion/sensation from the amygdala, into the processing center, then filed in historic files, and off our radar, which is different than what has been grueling daily work to build new pathways, and work to STOP default pathways when I notice them. It's harder, particulary bc I only knew about the frontal occipital hold to relieve stress in the brain, and I needed more tools and more support. The brain integration came up for both daughters, and emotional looping issues,and learning hiccups for youngest. It was helpful, but only a piece of the puzzle.
The EMDR, crossing my arms over each other and patting myself on each shoulder, one at a time, like soothing a baby.... pushing against a door jamb when really in fight or flight... or walking backwards around a trashcan..... all done with deep breathing.... like filling a vase from the bottom up..... pooching out the stomach, and breathing in deeply... then breathing out deeply..... until it's natural, and happens without thinking, which I'm working on. Breathing was never part of Brain Integration training, and it should be a part of all stress relief training, IME. This is a very modern perspective. I've taken some counselling courses over the years and these ideas were never even glanced at in the curriculum, I think the training of therapists really needs to change. That you were never introduced to the latest brain science and proven trauma treatments is so sad, but I believe it, bc I've never seen a T use them, or even be able to discuss them until recently. Once I tried to explain tapping to my oldest dd's T, and he tried it, then said he felt like an idiot slapping himself all over the place. That's hard for me to believe, and he didn't practice EMDR either. This was 3 years ago or so. Maybe he's taking classes in these things now. It's difficult though when so many counselors are trained to believe that reflective listening is best practice. Mirror neurons are important in my T's practice. She looks me in the eyes, and reflects back to me, and engages in a way that was very difficult to get used to, but I did it, and it's something I look forward to and appreciate now. If you reflect my trauma back to me it just becomes an echo chamber and I never move on... from a Hebbian perspective it just strengthens the trauma wiring in my brain. My T doesn't mirror back trauma.... she holds compassion between us, and recognizes my pain. Complete, unconditional, abiding acceptance is what's important... not mirroring my trauma, bc as I said earlier..... the trauma story is only brought up for the pointed purpose of accessing the stuck emotions and body sensations attached to the story. The story goes right back on the shelf once it's served it's purpose, and isn't necessary beyond that.
We shift the focus to somatic response in the body, which is actually thousands of years old Buddhist teachings. How did they know!?! No telling, but they did, and you hit on that a bit also. It's important. It widens our gaze, and POV and takes our face off the glass, and makes possible seeing the forest for the trees. My T put it this way.... if we put a tsp of salt into a glass, it's very concentrated. If we expand into a large body of water, it's not that much salt at all. We create more spaciousness and more emotional distance, and the stress seems less overwhelming, and all-encompassing. It's just a small thing if we're able to calm our nervous systems and engage our entire brain in problem-solving. There's no problem solving when we're in fight or flight. There's only compulsive worry, which is one coping strategy I'm ready to let go of. We can't think out way out of fight or flight.
The brain can heal years of layered trauma events, and nodes in a millisecond. It's not difficult. It's just what the brain does when it's given the chance. This is what fascinates me now. I think transferring myelin from one pathway to another happens without work and strife IF we can help our brain process. It's remembering who we are... without the layers of other people's crud on top of who we were born to be. We can remember this and it doesn't have to be hard. work, or effort. No T should tell their patient T is going to be hard, and difficult and take a long long time, according to my T.
Hard IS retelling a traumatic event over and over again to someone who doesn't understand how to help us process it, and resolve it. That's just nuts.
I never felt better telling my story to T's who would break down and cry, and do nothing but appear helpless, and traumatized themselves. I hated SEEING them suffer. THIS T.... never flinched. Her eyes were always dry, and she always moved on to the next tool if one wasn't working/was beyond my ability to focus on, bc of escalating stress/fight or flight sympathetic nervous system overload.... she took me to something that DID work, and she didn't lose sight of the goal. The mission is to process old trauma/emotion/sensations and file in historic files. DONE. Not listen to my "story" or reflect my trauma BACK to me. To move stuck trauma into processing centers, finish processing, then file.... THIS is what our brains are efficient at IF they're not stuck on overwhelming emotions. It seems very simple when I see things this way during the process.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9xewPULPnI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjhP0mKwCQM
Memories aren't written in stone. We can perform memory reconsolidatin, and there's a couple links explaining this in some details above.... Nova Memory Hackers Memory Reconsolidations... I think.
Two appointements ago we brought up a traumatic picture, worked on it with EMDR, colored over it with my favorite color as her hand moved back and forth, then replaced it with a new outcome, which I chose myself, and felt complete peace with. Some people choose Saints or higher power, or a parental figure. I was my own parental figure, and it was so deeply satisfying to go INTO that scene, and change it. To help my young mother cope, and parent myself and my siblings the way we deserved to be parented then..... and then I couldn't picture the original picture at all... I still can't. It's all changed, and it's what painted over that original trauma. It's amazing,and I hope this helps someone else understand some piece that connects important dots for them regarding new therapies, and Ts who specialize in trauma, and those who really don't know.
I rambled, but it helps me internaliz this myself.
hhaw
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