Yesterdays call was one of his classics.....
Within seconds I had the ill croaky voice. Whats up? Legs back, in pain. Have you taken all the painkillers the doctor has prescribed for you?
<silence> which, as always means no. Fortunately, we didnt go over the old argument that "he doesnt want to get addicted because his friend said it happens".
My attitude to this - I'm not a doctor. Don't come to me to sort your problems out if you won't listen the medical experts.
"Its been so hot". He hasnt even got a fan in his house. I've offered many times to buy him one. How much? £30-£40. Not paying that for a fan, I'll manage.
My attitude - you have a choice, a fan for £40 or £ thousands minus £40 in the bank and be hot. Not my choice.
"Im not going out of my scooter any more". Why?
Well, if I break down, I can't walk home. Why would you walk home? There are many options. I've paid for "recovery" insurance for you (they basically come anywhere to pick you up. "How would they know I broke down I cant ring them". You take the mobile phone I bought you that never leaves the box, or since you only go to the shops I'm sure someone will help you. "Oh I don;t like to do that -Oh I wont bother I dont want to break down".
This is Dad to a T. You give him an easy option and he cannot be bothered.
My attitude - Stay in then. Not my problem you're stuck in the house when you can make an effort yourself.
Am I being too harsh here?
Oh his "solution" today. Hes phoned his cousin (2 years younger then him) whos agreed to go out with him on his scooter (every time!).
I pointed out that ok his cousins not going to be able to push him home or carry him home though. His answer "yes but he can sort it out if it breaks down".
Amazing bad attitude. Get someone else roped in to do something you can do yourself i.e. make one phone call.
This is the same cousin he talked into pushing him around on his wheelchair for an entire day and made his cousin ill. His attitude "well he could have said no". Wow sometimes.
Quote from: p123 on August 10, 2020, 03:28:41 AM
Am I being too harsh here?
IMO Absolutely Not! Heck IMO you are not even being harsh!
You are actually being kind.
You take his call even though you get nothing positive from it. You listen to his problems even though they are not real problems but a dumping of pessimism meant to produce FOG in you. You give him helpful (common sense because he pretends to lack any) solutions even though he always poopoos them.
You are the opposite of too harsh. You are actually above and beyond kind and patient.
IME These 'family systems' feelings can come up when talking to, visiting with, or even thinking of FOO.
The feelings are based on what was programmed onto us in childhood. The purpose of the programming was to control us in everyway it suited our caregiver to use us to fulfill their needs.
IME Acknowledging that these feelings are of that origin is a way of decreasing the impact they have on our beliefs.
IMO you are a good and loving son, father, and husband. You are doing a good job responding to F in a healthy manner!
Quote from: PeanutButter on August 10, 2020, 04:01:40 AM
Quote from: p123 on August 10, 2020, 03:28:41 AM
Am I being too harsh here?
IMO Absolutely Not! Heck IMO you are not even being harsh!
You are actually being kind.
You take his call even though you get nothing positive from it. You listen to his problems even though they are not real problems but a dumping of pessimism meant to produce FOG in you. You give him helpful (common sense because he pretends to lack any) solutions even though he always poopoos them.
You are the opposite of too harsh. You are actually above and beyond kind and patient.
IME These 'family systems' feelings can come up when talking to, visiting with, or even thinking of FOO.
The feelings are based on what was programmed onto us in childhood. The purpose of the programming was to control us in everyway it suited our caregiver to use us to fulfill their needs.
IME Acknowledging that these feelings are of that origin is a way of decreasing the impact they have on our beliefs.
IMO you are a good and loving son, father, and husband. You are doing a good job responding to F in a healthy manner!
Thanks Peanut. He makes me so mad when he just does not help himself and then moans about things. Its almost sometimes as if he likes things screwed up I'm sure.
Hes at the stage now, where he just cannot be bothered with anything. I can offer to take him out - no. But then he still moans hes stuck in. I keep telling him, there are a multitude of ways we can make things easier for him but he just says no.
Don't get me started on the home delivery shopping. Refuses. Would rather I drove 30 mins to get £20 worht of groceries than get them delivered. "Doesnt want someone at my door". Better tell the postman to keep away then!
Part of his problem is "I don;t like to". He'll ask friends and family to do whatever but always assumes to can't do something or it'll be too difficult. I've taken him places and hes refused because "they wont let wheelchairs in" what? Or "its too much hassle to ask?". It amazes me honestly.
You're doing good, p123. I don't know if you read freedom77's thread about her M possibly facing homelessness. We all said freedom had gone above and beyond what was required to help her M and if she ended up homeless by her own lack of action then so be it.
You have likewise gone above and beyond. But people make stupid choices sometimes. You obviously care but it's your dad's choice and his prerogative to make it. It doesn't help anyone to get all upset by it. Personally I think he's partly looking pathetic on purpose as a waify hoover. You keep doing what you're doing and let him get on with it his own way. It hurts to see people we care about act in such unhealthy ways but you have learned by now you can't change him! And your being upset and ruminating on it doesn't help anybody either.
Quote from: p123 on August 10, 2020, 03:58:15 AM
Oh his "solution" today. Hes phoned his cousin (2 years younger then him) whos agreed to go out with him on his scooter (every time!).
I pointed out that ok his cousins not going to be able to push him home or carry him home though. His answer "yes but he can sort it out if it breaks down".
Amazing bad attitude. Get someone else roped in to do something you can do yourself i.e. make one phone call.
This is the same cousin he talked into pushing him around on his wheelchair for an entire day and made his cousin ill. His attitude "well he could have said no". Wow sometimes.
I agree p123. WOW!
He could care less about cousin getting ill last time. If F can call cousin to ask for help, then he could make a call to the "recovery" (you kindly set up for him) if he ran into some sort of problem when he is on his scooter. Cousin must be deep in the fog.
Quote from: p123 on August 10, 2020, 04:11:11 AM
He makes me so mad when he just does not help himself and then moans about things. Its almost sometimes as if he likes things screwed up I'm sure. It amazes me honestly.
I think is a good possibility.
If his goal is attention, but noone enjoys being around him, then it is necessary for his helplessness, debilitating health problems, declining cognition and abilities be the draw to those left in his life (mainly ones conditioned to believe family ties outweigh everything else) that causes them to enable (help) him.
Hi P123
I hope you enjoyed every minute of your holiday. I had forgotten that you were going and wondered how things with your dad had been so quiet.
You aren't being too harsh at all. I think of it the same way I do with my tween/teen kids. Look, I gave you 2 choices. If you choose to take neither, that's on you. He's making his choice. He's an adult and has to live with the consequences.
You've come a long way!
P123 I agree with Sidney. You have come a long way! I remember when you started and were so hesitant to set boundaries.
As you know this all sounds familiar to me. They make everything difficult because they love you running in circles trying to solve their problems, which can't be solved because they won't accept our advice or guidance. I think they get a thrill out of watching us do tricks trying to fix their life. On a psych level, to them it probably shows we care, and they are trying to get that internal void filled which no human can fill, but to us it's 100 percent manipulation. And you are right to opt out of it.
Trying to please someone who can't be pleased only leads to
Frustration
Disappointment
Confusion
Hurt
Bitterness
Resentment
Anger
None of which are good. Stay on your path. You're doing great!
Oh he absolutely wants things screwed up, or at least to look like it is. People with personality disorders frequently manufacture chaos to get what they want. If he looks totally inept, incapable, etc, then you'll have to go help him out every single day. Which is his goal, by the way.
Anger is good, embrace it, use it to see that he's just trying to manipulate you. The world revolves around him and what he wants after all. :roll:
Glad you enjoyed your vacation! Sorry Disney world didn't happen, at least not yet, it's a bit, well, not the happiest place on earth at the moment with all the closures and requirements. :stars:
Well done, sir - and you were anything but harsh! 8-)
You held your ground and didn't get sucked into his problems. You offered simple solutions and got them all thrown back at you because not only would HE have to do something, but he really doesn't want his problems solved.
He really doesn't. :roll:
For example, if you bought a fan and brought it over, it would just sit there in the box until kingdom come. He wouldn't do a thing with it.
If you took it out of the box and plugged it in, he'd probably tell you to turn it off because it'll cost too much in electricity. :stars:
You just can't win. They won't *let* us win.
They'd rather sow chaos and confusion, keeping all in flux around them, where everything is a big, flipping mystery or secret, and only WE can solve the problem FOR them - until the next one comes along, and there's *always* a next one.
The second they have to put in an iota of effort, it's just not going to happen. They won't do it.
Sure, he'll run the cousin ragged, until the cousin says no or becomes ill, and when that happens - not your problem. It's your *dad's* problem. He can figure out something that doesn't involve you in any way, shape or form. :ninja:
I went through the same damned thing with unBPD Didi and I swear, it's like trying to pry a revolving door of tentacles off your person. As soon as you get rid of a few, they're ready to deploy a few more. :spooked:
Be ready to say NO - you can't help, call your doctor, have the scooter serviced, well, I really don't know what to tell you since you shoot down everything I suggest, so I'm ending the call. There's really nothing more to talk about, dad. We just keep going round in circles. You have to help yourself. :ninja:
You've GOT this! :cheer:
:hug:
Thanks alll.....
WI - you're spot on there. Anything that needs one IOTA of effort from him is a no. Its unbelievable.
A lot of these things I CANNOT fix anyway so why ask me about it?
I'm getting better. I offer fixes and he says no and I think stuff you then.
The scooter thing is crazy. Won't go out on it in case it breaks down because he cant walk home. Its like saying I'm never going out in my car!
As with all things, Dads crazy idea never stand up to sensible scrutiny.
He is getting more and more anxious though. It seems to control everything at the moment. Also he tries to control my life with it too. (Remember the recent phone calls when I was in spain - he was frantic that I had to come home NOW)
Thing is with Dad as well its true he wants everyone to run around for him. Hes got Satellite TV - he knows how to work this PERFECTLY. Because he has to. No learn no watch. With his mobile phone, it stays in the box, because hes yet to see why he needs to learn. Theres always someone else to do it for you. I realised hes done this all his life. He never learned to drive - why when someone else can give him a lift to work. why think about it. Exactly like he is now.
I realised some years ago that Dad really is one of lifes "losers" because of his attitude. He wont do anything, he will let others do things for him, and he will never think to better himself.
Of course, now he wants what he wants. Me to visit every few days and take him for a ride in the car. Not think about anything else. Me to just do it.
It is not just your father. I think they are all like that.
I swear my father didn't want me to actually solve his problems....he just wanted me working on them all the time. I'd take care of something for him and he'd ask...are you sure it is taken care of...call them again and make sure. What???
What they really want is for you to run to their side and pat them on the hand and say "you poor thing" over and over and over and over.
My father would f-up the remote weekly. I showed him what to do. Wrote it down in easy to read instruction....nope...it was easier if I did it. Not for me it wasn't.
He thought nothing of me leaving work TWICE in one day to take him to the same doctor. He could not fathom how that was a problem. By the third time I caught on and refused. He did not know what to do. I suggested he call a friend. He expected me to find someone for him. I refused, told him to call his friend. He didn't want to BOTHER him....a retired friend who lives in the area. No rather call his daughter and expect her to leave WORK.
The best was when he ended up in a hospital 2 hours away. He called me to come and pick him up....NOW. I was at work. Stupid me actually did it. Later I found out his friends offered to come and get him but he said he daughter would do it. I could have killed him. No concern that I lost a half days pay and had to drive 100 miles.
My kids loved my father but my daughter did get to see the guy I had to deal with. She was helping my father pack up his apartment and my aunt stopped by. My father dropped her to go off with my aunt and leave it all on her. That is my father...as soon as a better offer comes along he would dump me. I'm glad she got to see him as I do.
Quote from: lkdrymom on August 11, 2020, 04:21:57 PM
It is not just your father. I think they are all like that.
I swear my father didn't want me to actually solve his problems....he just wanted me working on them all the time. I'd take care of something for him and he'd ask...are you sure it is taken care of...call them again and make sure. What???
What they really want is for you to run to their side and pat them on the hand and say "you poor thing" over and over and over and over.
My father would f-up the remote weekly. I showed him what to do. Wrote it down in easy to read instruction....nope...it was easier if I did it. Not for me it wasn't.
He thought nothing of me leaving work TWICE in one day to take him to the same doctor. He could not fathom how that was a problem. By the third time I caught on and refused. He did not know what to do. I suggested he call a friend. He expected me to find someone for him. I refused, told him to call his friend. He didn't want to BOTHER him....a retired friend who lives in the area. No rather call his daughter and expect her to leave WORK.
The best was when he ended up in a hospital 2 hours away. He called me to come and pick him up....NOW. I was at work. Stupid me actually did it. Later I found out his friends offered to come and get him but he said he daughter would do it. I could have killed him. No concern that I lost a half days pay and had to drive 100 miles.
My kids loved my father but my daughter did get to see the guy I had to deal with. She was helping my father pack up his apartment and my aunt stopped by. My father dropped her to go off with my aunt and leave it all on her. That is my father...as soon as a better offer comes along he would dump me. I'm glad she got to see him as I do.
Yep spot on the same.....
Hes not happy unless someone is doing it for him. In his head, he needs help, in reality hes just lazy.....
Yeh I got the hospital thing too. I was in work too. 60 min train ride, then probably 60 min drive. He got the nurse to call me because he'd told her I wouldnt mind. I told her no.
I did ask him why he got the nurse to call me - can't he do it? "Its their job". Umm my wife is a nurse, and they are medical professionals who have an important job, they are NOT you're personal PA. Dad seems to disagree.
Anyway, I didnt go. Told him to get a taxi. It would have cost £10. I offered to pay. Nope. He sat for 4 hours in the waiting room for the FREE patient transport, made himself ill by doing so, then that was my fault.
Im self employed, I told him it would have taken me two hours to get there, lost half a days pay which would have paid for taxis for half the waiting room to get home.
Quote from: p123 on August 12, 2020, 06:48:38 AM
Quote from: lkdrymom on August 11, 2020, 04:21:57 PM
It is not just your father. I think they are all like that.
I swear my father didn't want me to actually solve his problems....he just wanted me working on them all the time. I'd take care of something for him and he'd ask...are you sure it is taken care of...call them again and make sure. What???
What they really want is for you to run to their side and pat them on the hand and say "you poor thing" over and over and over and over.
My father would f-up the remote weekly. I showed him what to do. Wrote it down in easy to read instruction....nope...it was easier if I did it. Not for me it wasn't.
He thought nothing of me leaving work TWICE in one day to take him to the same doctor. He could not fathom how that was a problem. By the third time I caught on and refused. He did not know what to do. I suggested he call a friend. He expected me to find someone for him. I refused, told him to call his friend. He didn't want to BOTHER him....a retired friend who lives in the area. No rather call his daughter and expect her to leave WORK.
The best was when he ended up in a hospital 2 hours away. He called me to come and pick him up....NOW. I was at work. Stupid me actually did it. Later I found out his friends offered to come and get him but he said he daughter would do it. I could have killed him. No concern that I lost a half days pay and had to drive 100 miles.
My kids loved my father but my daughter did get to see the guy I had to deal with. She was helping my father pack up his apartment and my aunt stopped by. My father dropped her to go off with my aunt and leave it all on her. That is my father...as soon as a better offer comes along he would dump me. I'm glad she got to see him as I do.
Yep spot on the same.....
Hes not happy unless someone is doing it for him. In his head, he needs help, in reality hes just lazy.....
Yeh I got the hospital thing too. I was in work too. 60 min train ride, then probably 60 min drive. He got the nurse to call me because he'd told her I wouldnt mind. I told her no.
I did ask him why he got the nurse to call me - can't he do it? "Its their job". Umm my wife is a nurse, and they are medical professionals who have an important job, they are NOT you're personal PA. Dad seems to disagree.
Anyway, I didnt go. Told him to get a taxi. It would have cost £10. I offered to pay. Nope. He sat for 4 hours in the waiting room for the FREE patient transport, made himself ill by doing so, then that was my fault.
Im self employed, I told him it would have taken me two hours to get there, lost half a days pay which would have paid for taxis for half the waiting room to get home.
The worst part is...it is not so much that you are doing something for them...it is that you are being
greatly inconvenienced in order to do something for them...THAT is what they want to see.
Quote from: lkdrymom on August 16, 2020, 02:15:31 PM
Quote from: p123 on August 12, 2020, 06:48:38 AM
Quote from: lkdrymom on August 11, 2020, 04:21:57 PM
It is not just your father. I think they are all like that.
I swear my father didn't want me to actually solve his problems....he just wanted me working on them all the time. I'd take care of something for him and he'd ask...are you sure it is taken care of...call them again and make sure. What???
What they really want is for you to run to their side and pat them on the hand and say "you poor thing" over and over and over and over.
My father would f-up the remote weekly. I showed him what to do. Wrote it down in easy to read instruction....nope...it was easier if I did it. Not for me it wasn't.
He thought nothing of me leaving work TWICE in one day to take him to the same doctor. He could not fathom how that was a problem. By the third time I caught on and refused. He did not know what to do. I suggested he call a friend. He expected me to find someone for him. I refused, told him to call his friend. He didn't want to BOTHER him....a retired friend who lives in the area. No rather call his daughter and expect her to leave WORK.
The best was when he ended up in a hospital 2 hours away. He called me to come and pick him up....NOW. I was at work. Stupid me actually did it. Later I found out his friends offered to come and get him but he said he daughter would do it. I could have killed him. No concern that I lost a half days pay and had to drive 100 miles.
My kids loved my father but my daughter did get to see the guy I had to deal with. She was helping my father pack up his apartment and my aunt stopped by. My father dropped her to go off with my aunt and leave it all on her. That is my father...as soon as a better offer comes along he would dump me. I'm glad she got to see him as I do.
Yep spot on the same.....
Hes not happy unless someone is doing it for him. In his head, he needs help, in reality hes just lazy.....
Yeh I got the hospital thing too. I was in work too. 60 min train ride, then probably 60 min drive. He got the nurse to call me because he'd told her I wouldnt mind. I told her no.
I did ask him why he got the nurse to call me - can't he do it? "Its their job". Umm my wife is a nurse, and they are medical professionals who have an important job, they are NOT you're personal PA. Dad seems to disagree.
Anyway, I didnt go. Told him to get a taxi. It would have cost £10. I offered to pay. Nope. He sat for 4 hours in the waiting room for the FREE patient transport, made himself ill by doing so, then that was my fault.
Im self employed, I told him it would have taken me two hours to get there, lost half a days pay which would have paid for taxis for half the waiting room to get home.
The worst part is...it is not so much that you are doing something for them...it is that you are being greatly inconvenienced in order to do something for them...THAT is what they want to see.
Oh yeh realised that a while ago - its the act that I've proved my worth or, more to the point, hes got me to do something and is still in control is the thing.
I find it SO insulting to be honest.
Quote from: lkdrymom on August 16, 2020, 02:15:31 PM
Quote from: p123 on August 12, 2020, 06:48:38 AM
Quote from: lkdrymom on August 11, 2020, 04:21:57 PM
It is not just your father. I think they are all like that.
I swear my father didn't want me to actually solve his problems....he just wanted me working on them all the time. I'd take care of something for him and he'd ask...are you sure it is taken care of...call them again and make sure. What???
What they really want is for you to run to their side and pat them on the hand and say "you poor thing" over and over and over and over.
My father would f-up the remote weekly. I showed him what to do. Wrote it down in easy to read instruction....nope...it was easier if I did it. Not for me it wasn't.
He thought nothing of me leaving work TWICE in one day to take him to the same doctor. He could not fathom how that was a problem. By the third time I caught on and refused. He did not know what to do. I suggested he call a friend. He expected me to find someone for him. I refused, told him to call his friend. He didn't want to BOTHER him....a retired friend who lives in the area. No rather call his daughter and expect her to leave WORK.
The best was when he ended up in a hospital 2 hours away. He called me to come and pick him up....NOW. I was at work. Stupid me actually did it. Later I found out his friends offered to come and get him but he said he daughter would do it. I could have killed him. No concern that I lost a half days pay and had to drive 100 miles.
My kids loved my father but my daughter did get to see the guy I had to deal with. She was helping my father pack up his apartment and my aunt stopped by. My father dropped her to go off with my aunt and leave it all on her. That is my father...as soon as a better offer comes along he would dump me. I'm glad she got to see him as I do.
Yep spot on the same.....
Hes not happy unless someone is doing it for him. In his head, he needs help, in reality hes just lazy.....
Yeh I got the hospital thing too. I was in work too. 60 min train ride, then probably 60 min drive. He got the nurse to call me because he'd told her I wouldnt mind. I told her no.
I did ask him why he got the nurse to call me - can't he do it? "Its their job". Umm my wife is a nurse, and they are medical professionals who have an important job, they are NOT you're personal PA. Dad seems to disagree.
Anyway, I didnt go. Told him to get a taxi. It would have cost £10. I offered to pay. Nope. He sat for 4 hours in the waiting room for the FREE patient transport, made himself ill by doing so, then that was my fault.
Im self employed, I told him it would have taken me two hours to get there, lost half a days pay which would have paid for taxis for half the waiting room to get home.
The worst part is...it is not so much that you are doing something for them...it is that you are being greatly inconvenienced in order to do something for them...THAT is what they want to see.
This is true. They don't want a problem solved. They want us to drop everything, ignore everyone else and....
Just
Serve
Them.
:yeahthat:
I'm surprised your dad didn't suggest you coming to personally fan him like one of cleopatra's slaves.
There are no limits to their wants.
They don't act like adults.
Their expectations are ridiculous.
Their selfishness is shocking and it can be depressing.
Good point too about their disinclination to learn anything which they see no need for. Yup my dad to a tee.
I agree the more inconvenienced we are, the more they seem to enjoy it.
What an awful way to live when you get joy by watching others get the joy sucked out of them. I was very bitter towards her as time went on, and for good reason.
No one deserves to be manipulated.
Quote from: Adrianna on August 16, 2020, 08:56:32 PM
I agree the more inconvenienced we are, the more they seem to enjoy it.
What an awful way to live when you get joy by watching others get the joy sucked out of them. I was very bitter towards her as time went on, and for good reason.
No one deserves to be manipulated.
They joy out of knowing you will go to great lengths to make them happy. Or at least try and make them happy. What they want is to feel important. They are so important that you will drop everything else to tend to them. With my grandmother I used to call it 'bragging rights'. Who's kid went out of their way the most to do something for them.
I think thats what I find most difficult to deal with.
The fact that he likes getting me to do things for the sake of it just to "test" me or get some sort of warm glow.
Quote from: p123 on August 17, 2020, 01:02:24 PM
I think thats what I find most difficult to deal with.
The fact that he likes getting me to do things for the sake of it just to "test" me or get some sort of warm glow.
It's a difficult thing to accept and it's an unsettling, disturbing and overall lousy feeling, once you realize you are being manipulated by someone who society says is supposed to love us.
It really is a lousy feeling and it can be like a sucker-punch to the soul. We're being manipulated by being "tested" - the more inconvenient the problem is for us, the happier they are, especially if they can get us to drop everything with their continued moaning, or twist us into knots, trying to solve unsolvable problems they don't *want* solved.
UnBPD Didi had digestive issues, compounded with weight loss. I'd cook her favorite foods for her and deliver them.
At first she was appreciative and would pay me in advance for ingredients. Then she started not paying in advance and complaining - little things. The rice wasn't soft enough, the pickles weren't soft enough, the brined chicken breasts were still tough, and the crust on the bread was too crusty.
Little things I could correct - steam rice longer, cook pickles longer, brine chicken longer and cook at a lower temp, and the bread?
Well, you're on your own - it's supposed to be a crusty loaf. Eat around it. :oh:
Besides, this is bread *from scratch.* :cloud9:
Yeah! I bake my own bread because I'm kind of mental about all things culinary. I love cooking and take it very seriously - especially complaints. I strive to rectify and make things right, but Didi was complaining about nothing - the rice was steamed to perfect doneness, the pickles couldn't get much softer because they have actual mass, fiber and structure, the chicken we tried from the same batch wasn't tough or dry - so what gives? :stars:
Still, I tried to correct the rice, pickles and chicken, but got to listen to her whinge about the bread crust cutting her delicate little mouth. (Cut the damned crust OFF and give it to Ray, who was a virtual bread zombie!)
*Brief aside - bread zombie: shuffles in, pays NO attention to anybody or anything but the bread, cuts off a hunk of warm bread (how's THAT for delivery!? 8-)), slather with butter, shuffles out - all without a word or a glance at his surroundings - or us, who were right near the bread. :aaauuugh:
I've never seen anything like it. :blink:
Aliens - actual aliens! - could be invading and all hell could be breaking loose, but still, it's, "Breaaaaddddd...must get to the breaaaaaadddd..." :wacko:
I digress - but I wanted to share because that was actually pretty damned funny. :rofl:
I *finally* managed to get payment BUT she let the pickles go bad in the fridge and needed more. :roll: Oooops! And don't bring bread - her doctor thought she was allergic to gluten. :dramaqueen:
That was a lie - she was punishing Ray and didn't want him to have something he so obviously enjoyed. I saw her eat plenty of store bread after that - but she never could keep her fake problems straight... :roll:
I was miffed about her letting the pickles go bad, but made more, and rice, and chicken, and bacon, which was also a staple. She wanted it CRISPY. I'd render that stuff for a good 20 minutes, until there was even a little black char on the it, which was exactly what she liked, but never could manage to get at restaurants and would NEVER send it back.
She'd stare at the plate and "cry" instead, making a GREAT show of having to condescend to each such swill... :violin:
Then I'd take that pound of bacon, which I'd cooked flat, place it on a cookie sheet and stick it in the freezer, so she had individually frozen bacon strips. I'd put them in a freezer bag and all she had to do was take a few out and stick 'em in the microwave. :thumbup:
These are things you do for somebody who loves you - or you *think* loves you, or you think maybe, just once, you can win - and keep - their approval. :doh:
Not so.
Pickles STILL too hard, rice STILL too hard, chicken STILL too tough and now?
The bacon was NOT flat enough. :dramaqueen: :violin:
And I didn't get paid. Again. :roll:
That's when I started seriously thinking about what was actually going on and she was intentionally trying to make my life more difficult by finding non-existent problems. The pickles WERE soft and no, I wasn't going to put them in the pressure cooker for half an hour!
If the rice were any softer, it would have been congee (rice porridge - and very tasty), the chicken breasts gushed clear juices like Niagara Falls (I exaggerate, but juicy!), and the bacon could NOT get any freaking flatter - not when cooked with a weight on it to hold the shape *and frozen flat on a cookie sheet!*
That's when I decided to get OFF the merry-go-round. She was just trying to make me jump thought hoops and worse, not paying me because she *expected this kind of treatment.* :(
She'd have to pay a chef - and I was only charging for ingredients. Not my time and not the spices I used, and I *love* cooking, so she was making things harder by being THE fussiest person on earth; the princess who could never be pleased. :roll:
Most people would be appreciative - all she could do was gripe because it wasn't HARD enough, and I wasn't inconvenienced enough, so she was going to stiff me on payment, too.
The food truck broke down without warning and never came again. :ninja:
One day, she called and said, "I need pickles...I need bacon...I need chicken....I need rice..." - like she was placing a freaking order, and I just said, "I'll see what I can do." :ninja:
What I could do was nothing except ignore her - and THAT'S when she started "forgetting" to get script renewals from her doctor - things she knew had to be renewed MONTHS in advance - and started insisting I call the pharmacy and plead on her behalf, or track down the replacement doctor, since hers was on vacation and she was NOT going to be seen by somebody she didn't know. :dramaqueen:
This would usually happen half an hour before the pharmacy closed - and right before the day she claimed she'd be out of meds. :roll:
Me: I can't help you. You can either see the doctor or go to the ER, but there' s nothing I can do. :ninja:
She'd whine and plead and "cry" and beg and tell me I was her last hope - my answer was always the same: NO. :ninja:
Contrast that with DH's grandparents, who were in their 80's and having trouble getting around.
Grandma would give us a list, we'd shop for them, bring the stuff home, put it away, and give her the change - she'd not only insist we keep it but *pay us for our time, even when we asked her not to!* :)
They never complained, never pulled a last-minute switcheroo (Oh, you got what I wrote when I was THINKING I wanted... :doh:), and never did anything that made us feel used, unappreciated or manipulated.
That's why we never had a problem shopping for them for over six years, and taking on other household chores, when asked - we were *asked,* it was always as our schedules allowed, and we were always paid, even when we said it wasn't necessary.
Grandma insisted it WAS - and she was right. :yes:
The PDs in our lives could have learned a few things from her.
But they never will. They just keep trying to think of new and interesting ways to make our lives difficult, to prove *we don't matter* - only they DO.
:hug:
Quote from: Adrianna on August 17, 2020, 07:43:23 PM
Quote from: p123 on August 17, 2020, 01:02:24 PM
I think thats what I find most difficult to deal with.
The fact that he likes getting me to do things for the sake of it just to "test" me or get some sort of warm glow.
It's a difficult thing to accept and it's an unsettling, disturbing and overall lousy feeling, once you realize you are being manipulated by someone who society says is supposed to love us.
I've done a lot for my Dad over the years. A lot..
It just annoys me so much he is so disrespectful...
WI I am always at a loss for words when I read your highly descriptive stories of your two "parents". It's just unreal the drama that you had to deal with, and not with just one, but with both parents.
Your mother sounds like she had traits of the "queen" Borderline type. I see a lot of similarities with her and my grandmother. The meds issue was one she used a lot too. She loooooooved watching me run to the store after work, knowing I was tired and just wanted to go home, all because she was "almost out". I'd go over and there would be a full bottle there already. It wasn't about the meds at all. It was about watching me do tricks for her. I got downright pissed off as time went on. No one likes to be manipulated.
The Ray bread story! Loved it.
Oh my goodness WI, you did all that for them.
Wowzer.
Yes, I've stopped too. My dad is just the same.
A few years ago we had booked a cottage in the Scottish highlands. It had extra bedrooms. We talked about taking dad with us. We felt we should offer him a holiday with us.
So we asked him.
'Dad, we are going to Scotland, up to the highlands, and we'd love to take you with us. Will you come?'
( Dad thinks)
'Um. Well you know, we will have to stay in Stirling on the way up. You will have to book the exact bed and breakfast I like; nowhere else will do.( goes on about the food in the b & b)
It's the same place I always stayed with your mother. It's the cheapest and best.'
( reminisces about his past holidays in Scotland with mum).
'And (to my husband) you will also have to drive a certain route ( increases authoritative tone) because it is
The Best Road. That 'other' route up to the highlands is 'no good.' '
We've travelled 'that other route' several times. It's beautiful all the way up, and and it's a good road. It's a bit more winding, because it runs alongside Loch Lomond. (Mum didn't like winding roads. Mum had passed on and wouldn't be travelling with us, but we still had to apparently take mum's travelling preferences into account when planning our holiday.
My dad's choices were fine if it were his trip. but he'd missed the point. This was OUR holiday, and we had kindly asked him along. He simply couldn't accept the possibility of US taking HIM on holiday. It had to become HIS holiday, with all of HIS choices.
We've never asked him again. I still cannot imagine just how much worse it would have become, if we had agreed to dad's conditions. Once there, we would have been at the mercy of his million more conditions and his increasingly idiosyncratic demands on where is okay to eat, where to explore, what time to get up, go to bed etc. He would have hated the cottage too. (it was lovely).
What were we thinking?
We think we might have gone insane on that holiday.
Nano he would have ruined that holiday for you without question. I'm glad he didn't go and you were smart to never invite him again.
I invited my father and mother over for Easter dinner once and my father put up such a fight over it that I was nearly in tears. I was just trying to do something nice. He did eventually agree, Pretty sure it was to shut me up (I may have even heard him say those words but can't recall), and they did come over but I never invited them over after that.
My mother in law used to invite them for holiday dinners and often she wouldn't even get an RSVP. She wouldn't know if they would show up or not and couldn't plan for the food. One year they agreed to go to Thanksgiving dinner, and the day before he bailed, saying he had to mow his lawn. My mother in law never invited them again. No appreciation, no thankfulness, no courtesy towards others.
Got to tell you how our Xmas Day used to go....
Dad lives 25 miles away. So a few days before he'd phone me "what time are you picking me up? 9am".
"No Dad - the kids need to open their presents first then I'll be up".
Dad - "no need for you to be there" moan moan. That was the first thing.
So hour+ round trip and we're back at our house.
He' d do the "one inch shuffle" I used to call it. Pretending he cant walk. He'd be hanging onto me and pretty much pulling me over. Bear in mind I know he used to walk over 1/2 mile across a busy road to the betting shop.
So he'd sit down. Same when he needed to use the bathroom. 2nd time he'd pretend he'd forgotten where it was as well..... I'd have to literally carry him.
Then "I can't see in here its too dark". We've got 3 cats - "get them away from me they're filthy" - he doesnt like cats. "Put them outside". Jeez.
Then he;d moan, I'm so ill I cant eat much. He'd sit at the table and literally shovel it in. It'd be everywhere. Then we'd have burping and breaking wind.
Every year he's say "I can't have cranberry sauce I'm on warfarin it'll kill me".
Table conversation would usually start off with "you spoil those kids you need you're heads read". Even though I'd asked him not to say this.
His worse one was when cats were mentioned. Without going into details, he'd tell us the story of how his neighbours cat met his end. All the while my 4-5 year old is listening!
He'd stay for hours. I'd try to hint. Eventually he'd go home. Another hour round trip. He'd say "Oh well you don't drink much, so you don;t mind drinking all day do you?"
Cheers Dad thanks for making the decision for me then - by the time I got home at about 7-8pm I needed a drink.
His last year (before we stopped it) he was feeling sorry for himself. Convinced he was ill. GP was having none of it but Dad was convinced he wasnt going to last until the doctors was open again. Didnt stop him shovelling down a massive xmas dinner. Do I dropped him home like normal and he piped up "Im ill I'm going to call an ambulance". I then spent hours talking to him. He didnt in the end.
It was 10pm by the time I got home. My son who was 15 at the time had been waiting all day for me to do something for him. My wife went nuts and she was right.
Now we don;t invite him. Wifes a nurse so we tell a little white lie. Saying that I took him to a restautrant last boxing day and he was a nightmare there too.
Holidays, Easter, Christmas. They are all supposed to be fun. Times when family get to enjoy and appreciate each other!
It's such a shame.
Adrianna I think it's the power they can't hand over somehow. They always want to be in charge as host or chief organiser. They don't view our offers as a kindness. They can't seem to grasp that it could be an act of love, rather than an opportunity to make them feel ' less than'.
They have no awareness that even by asking them, we are already going to make sacrifices at that event. The loveliest of elderly parents are still quite high maintenance. But that's okay when they are nonPD. And their children do it out of pure goodness.
We want to do the same, because we too feel empathic toward our parents.
But they don't recognise empathy as a player.
They must think they we feel just like them,
and that we are asking them because we just want to boast or patronise and 'get one over on them'.
Non PD parents understand and enthuse and accept to come when they are not running things.
With a PD parent there is no recognition of that; or my dad wouldn't have demanded control.
He didn't even say thank you for the offer. The whole gift horse in the mouth scenario once again. You end up with a bad taste in your mouth, wishing you hadn't said anything. at all.
Adrianna- I cant believe the ' mowing the lawn' excuse.
P123- I've read on here about a posters mum wanting to talk about how she 'got rid of' a cat and how the ever repeated story really upset the poster.
I thought of it when you said how your dad disliked your cats and liked to talk about a cat dying in front of your children. I think this is covert abuse.
I think it was Jerry Wise who said that narcissists offen use a technique to covertly abuse their targets.
They bring up a (often drastic and scary) story about something, and the end result of that story is their deep down wish.
He wanted your cats gone, permanently. He couldn't say it directly, so he said it indirectly, in front of your little girl too.
UNPDsister is very good at doing this.
She used to bring up tragedies and disasters and negativity that would have an indirect but indisputable connection with something in my life that I did, that I liked, or somewhere I'd travelled to, or to something I strongly believed in. It is all about rubbishing us, about denigrating our lifestyles. It's all about doing it in a way which is deniable if called out.
With family like that, why would we stay, once we've come Out of the FOG?
They do it to cast criticism and to threaten, unsettle and upset us.
Nano spot on.
Often they don't say thank you or appreciate anything. One year I gave my father a gift bag for his birthday and he peered into it, put it on the floor and did not say thank you. Why bother? I had a friend do this as well and that's when pieces started falling into place. Once you see pd people outside your family doing similar behaviors to your pd family, you start putting the puzzle together and some of those pd friendships have to end.
I too think it's abusive about the cat. Often as well they will also use these comments to upset the person under the guise of "joking." It's abusive in my book. "But I'm kidding!" Hardly. Once someone pulls that with me now it's adios.
I had a pd friend laugh and "joke" about me making this person so angry they wanted to take someone to the cellar to the garage to crack their skull open. Just one crack. That was the last time I saw that person. I don't need friends like that. Joking or not there's some truth behind that threat, which is that I should stay in line and keep my mouth shut or I could end up gone. It was one of the most disturbing things anyone had ever said to me. There was a little too much detail in that "joke". I no longer speak to that person.
My late father-in-law would talk about abusing animals. Here is an example, which I think occurred during my final visit to his home, at Thanksgiving 2009. Our dog had undergone surgery a week or two before then to have a toe amputated, and she required more attention than usual, to make sure she didn't lick the wound. FIL said something like, "If that was my dog, we would have shot it" or "When I was growing up, we dealt with things like that by shooting the dog." This comment and FIL's greater than usual rudeness, all directed at me, led me to decide to go VLC with him. I did not see him again, and he died last October.
Oh yes Dad is full of inappropriate comments.... He always did it. Remember when wife was pregnant and hes asked "so was it planned?"
He seems to think he can say what he wants when he wants even in someone elses house etc. His attitude is "well if you don't like it". Well we dont so hes no longer invited.
At the beginning, I spoke to him nicely about it and his answer was "you know me if I've got something to say I've got say it". I give up.
As I've said before, he wants things how he wants them and he wants everyone to run around after him and do nothing himself.
Whatever happens stay calm.
You need to calmly decide what you want to do. Not what you should, could, must or need to do. Then firmly and calmly stick to it.
You do not have to get on their emotional roller coaster with them. Get off it and just calmly watch them from afar.
Observe, don't absorb.
Become a lighthouse not a lifeboat.
If you can't help them they will be very skilled at finding someone else who will. They are very resourceful and clever. There always has to be someone. I pity them.