Hi everyone,
Got one of these from my PDM last night....seems especially cruel that it was sent the night before the work week starts. I often can't sleep on Sunday nights because of anxiety about that.
Also, a big part of the "apology" was for believing I could do anything and be a real star. I spent my childhood/adolescence/early-mid adulthood being constantly put down. When I did have academic or career success, I was put down for being unpopular and/or not having a boyfriend and/or not being married (starting around age 18!?!) or not having children ("the greatest joy and a sign of true maturity -- PDM got pregnant by accident and vocally regretted not aborting me.)
In last night's message, PDM "congratulated" me on finding a partner who was also sort of a failure and didn't judge me for my own.
I'd love to hear about any similar experiences, others have had -- or, to be honest, messages about how I'm not such a failure.
Thanks for reading. I'm grateful for this community.
This is a really rotten thing for any human to say to another, much less a parent. I'm so sorry. I would completely ignore it. This is a shaming message and not acceptable.
Wow - So passive-aggressive and mean!
How was this message delivered? Text, on the phone, in person? Whatever that method was, block it on Sunday nights if that's a difficult time for you. (And I soooooo understand the anxiety of Sunday night before the work week!)
You CAN refuse to interact with her on Sundays. You CAN limit how much you interact with her at all.
My own uPDM is also mean, and this is the exact sort of stuff she pulls. I'm left in outraged silence at the open hostility. In the long run I put my M on an information diet. She can't be mean about my life choices if she doesn't know about them.
Non-pd people don't say that kind of crap. I'm sorry you're dealing with that. Nothing can justify her saying that to you.
Thank you, All4, Thru, and Andeza! I appreciate what you wrote. To be fairer and clearer than I was in the original post, she didn't say the words "failure in life" -- just heavily implied them by talking about how she'd expected me to be a success, to help her prove that "we were better than everyone" and had been disappointed by my not living up to that.
Thru, the message was via email. I didn't want the unread thing hanging over my head, so I asked my partner to read it -- and then to paraphrase it for me. (He thought it was funny, in a horrible way.) For the first few minutes after hearing it, I also found it funny and had no emotional response at all. But then... So, I think that next time I won't ask him to paraphrase, just to tell me whether it requires/deserves a response.
Thank you all again!
Just for the record - her expectations are all on her, not yours to gratify or fulfill. She gets to choose what she does with that, there's NO mandate on your part whatsoever.
I'd be real tempted to set up an autoresponder for her emails, to please text or call in future should she need to reach you. Set up a filter so everything with her email addy goes to a folder that you look at when/if you want to and not one minute before. Yes, she may later say she sent/told you xyz and that's just fine. Maybe she did and maybe she didn't. Fact is every one of us has limits and perhaps it's time you looked at yours.
You deserve better than this. Read that again and every time you feel yourself wavering - you do. It doesn't matter what she thinks or how she feels about your choices, and you don't have to listen or read ANY of her bs.
:hug:
I also spent my teenage years being denigrated (I was never enough). Just like in my early adulthood, my mother claimed that I spent too much time studying for the grades I got in college. But at one point I told my mother in a very neutral tone: I ended up in the top 5 in my department and many professors are interested in having me participate in their research, for me it's the only thing that matters. She also claimed that the reason I spent so much time on my work was because I was slow. I mentioned in a very neutral tone that my boss gives me perfect evaluations, the VP likes me and I have the respect of my peers and that's the only thing that matters to me.
Been there with this. My mum told me in an apologetic tone that She felt like she had failed with me and my older sister.
I had to console her and absolve her of any blame for my being such a ' failure.' I had to do it for both of us older sisters.
I had to reassure her that she had been a good parent to us two, and any problems were of our making entirely.
Mum wanted absolution from me.
They want you to take on the shame that belongs to them.
So I did. Because it got me some rare approval from her.
I felt very sad and hurt when I came off that phone call. It's an awful thing to say to your child.
Mum idolised her two younger children.
There was a big gap between us two and those two.
It wasn't the first time I felt that she had sort of wanted to 'start again' in terms of her own parenting.
As time went on and we got older, we both began to feel our roles to be more like aunties to our two younger siblings.
We sort of lost our sibling status. That is how it felt.
I was a long time in denial.No one wants to accept it, and they take full advantage of that.
Also had it all my life from older NPDsister, who learned the habits of denigration.
She said a similar thing to me that your PD mum said about your partner- .
I had met my husband and we were all loved up, We were engaged within a year.
She told me how 'nice' he was, but still she was 'concerned'
because 'of the way we both were' ( she thought we were ditsy and not very capable of anything apparently!)
she told me our marriage would be like....
'The blind leading the blind.'
What do you say to these awful insults, dressed up as apologies or concern?
Well yes, the least amount of information the better.
And time is on our side.
She doesn't want to talk about our marriage any more, 41 years on and we are still together. She can't say a lot of negative things now. So she chooses to say nothing of course. Where's the fun in being loving and caring? Lol.
I'd have preferred her to be a close, supportive sister, but I didn't get one of those.
I tried to do the work of two in terms of support, for all my siblings, for a lot of years. I don't do that any more.
Just choose your tribe from other folk who are not PDs.
Reading nanotech's story I'm reminded of all the ugly things my uPDM had to say about my husband prior to my wedding all cloaked as "concern".
Around my 25th anniversary, my M said "Well maybe he's OK".
I was so surprised I just laughed in her face. As if I had been waiting for her approval all those years? When I had actually dismissed her ugly, mean comments the minute they came out of her mouth. (So much easier to see the untruths when she's aiming her meanness at another person!)
Quote from: Thru the Rain on August 17, 2020, 06:23:58 PM
Reading nanotech's story I'm reminded of all the ugly things my uPDM had to say about my husband prior to my wedding all cloaked as "concern".
Around my 25th anniversary, my M said "Well maybe he's OK".
I was so surprised I just laughed in her face. As if I had been waiting for her approval all those years? When I had actually dismissed her ugly, mean comments the minute they came out of her mouth. (So much easier to see the untruths when she's aiming her meanness at another person!)
Thru the rain, yes.
I think once we reach a socially significant anniversary, they concede a little, but as you say, we are not looking for it. We were not influenced then, and so it certainly had no bearing now.
I must admit I just laughed at the 'blind leading the blind' comment from sister. It was clear they had all discussed it.
Where I think the meanness about our partners comes from;
They see us being loved unconditionally, being loved as we are, being respected and being treated as an equal by someone outside the family. It's an outsider who wants to come in,and who threatens the skewed dynamics, by raising us up.
They find this so difficult to deal with. Unacceptable really.
This someone then loves us the most, and will always love us more, than anyone else in the FOO(of course!). And any children we might have, will also be loved unconditionally by this person for being just as they are.
Warning, possible abuse trigger-
This is born out by the fact that my UBPDmum adored my first boyfriend (who was an abuser). He learned and played the family system, putting my mum first and just fawning all over her. He was sweetness and light to my mum, quite flirty really I think, though I didn't see it at the time. In contrast, I had two years of hell.
Years later, she still made excuses for his behaviour, and expressed sympathy for him. My UNPD sister chimed in. My children were playing in the room at the time,
When I quietly objected to her inexplicable sympathy for him, citing my two years of hell, I was blamed for even meeting him and bringing him home. (I met him at youth club. He was too old to be at youth club. He was scouting for innocents, and he found me).
I think she blamed me, for his abuse of me. She seemed to feel that I'd pushed him into it somehow.
When I met him he was SO lovely at first. He made me feel so VISIBLE, and valued for the first time in my life.
But that wasn't to last.
I feel my parents should have protected me better. He was a lot older than me.
He just fawned all over mum.
At first I liked that mum liked him. It gave me some reflected approval.
Then it got ridiculous.
Mum told me she liked him so much and felt so sorry for him (he was brought up in care) that even if I finished with him, she would still invite him to our house for Sunday lunch. :stars:
After a time he began to criticise me in in the same ways that my mum did. He would dress it up as teasing at first. He saw that this was of approved of by my mum.
He'd chosen his side. Physical abuse started soon after that. Grooming too ( I was 15).
My parents were clueless. I felt powerless. I couldn't keep him out of my own house. Plus I had trauma bonded. He was invited on holiday and treated like my sibling.
He became in the end, another bullying sibling.
See how he began to be valued over me, and all the time he was abusing me.
Yet my lovely hubby, who wouldn't hurt a hair on my head, never has, never will, and who has always looked after me, had to put up with with their disdain and dislike. He was also lovely with my mum, but he always put me first.
I guess if they dislike our partners and call both them and us failures, then the exact opposite is where the truth lies! X
Thanks so much, everyone! Am currently having an EF (it's a fun week) so can't respond individually, as I'd hoped, but please know that I really appreciate everything that's been written here.
Hope you're okay, take care. xx
Thanks, nano! Doing a bit better today.
Hey frogjumpsout,
I hope you're realizing that this is a PD trait and has nothing to do with you. Here's a couple of mine.
One day we were driving along and PD M just casually says, whilst talking about my now H, 'when (previous bf) and you broke up I just figured you'd be alone forever."
Thaaaaaaaanks.
Also, this might have even been the same conversation, "i just figured you were like (her sister, who was mentally ill, an alcoholic and died from taking the wrong combination of pills in her 40s) but that wasn't my fault and there was nothing I could do about it.'
She also told my H many times after I went NC that there 'had always been something wrong with me' and that 'I wasn't anywhere near normal until I was about 30'.
...and then she'd ask when I was going to call her. :stars:
Interesting about the husbands.
My grandmother had threatened me, when my husband and I were dating, that I had better drop "Bozo" because it was disrespectful to my father and I shouldn't upset him or her by dating him. First of all Bozo, really? Second, in spectacular npd fashion, they wanted me to marry a doctor or a lawyer. Bozo didn't shape up. Marrying someone like that would make them look good. Same reason they wanted me at the prestigious college where I started my schooling. I left for a less prestigious school second year in and got a three month silent treatment over it. They wanted me to stay and graduate from that prestigious school as bragging rights to reflect well on them. Again, in pure npd form.
My grandmother later softened towards my husband, in fact sometimes on rare occasion I'd bring him with me for visits so she might behave that day, and keep her abuse in check. She once told me " you can't ever divorce him because then he won't do things for me." He hardly did anything for her anyway. But the thought of losing another possible servant was the overriding factor in her mind.
You're definitely not a failure!
My mother did this too, but in a more covered way. When I was a teen, she always showed me how much she liked other peoples daughters, while completey ignoring me. When I was reading a book or doing my homework for school (and therefore did not give her my attention) she told me I must not like people, only books.
When I was 11, there was a 21 year old guy that she liked, and she told me he would be a fantastic boyfriend (yes, I was 11! :aaauuugh:)
When I became an adult, the few friends she had were women my age, she invited them and their families over to Christmas, even putting pictures of their children on her dresser, pretending them to be her grandchildren. Sigh ...
I'm 54 now, I never got married and I don't have children. I don't regret that, although I do think part of the reasons is I always had a very low self esteem. But I know being single and having no children makes me a failure in her eyes.
Brother also never got married. And besides that, he never finished high school, never worked a day in his life and has been on benefits for as long as I recall.
He's not a failure in her eyes, btw :blink:
Mathilda my brother is quite similar to yours, though he does work from time to time and isn't on benefits (though always on what I call "mom's benefits", always getting money and help off her). She doesn't view him as a failure, either, and when he has one of his fly by night jobs supposedly making a gazillion dollars, he's held up to us as a shining example of success.
Which is just barfsome.
SparkStillLit, my brother isn't a failure because she believes he can't help himself because as a child he's been ill :bawl: Second, she believes he is a victim of society, just like she is.
Brother joined the army for 14 months, had a job afterwards for a very short time, got fired, mummy told him he probably had PTST (for joining the army), he went to a psychiatrist who diagnosed him as a borderline with narcissisic traits :yes:
Just like your brother he's not only on benefits, but also on mommy's benefits.
Hi everyone, Thank you so much for the supportive messages and for sharing your own stories. I see a lot of parallels, especially around the treatment of the partners! (We've been together 15 years, she's often been "worried" about his financial stability although he's always been stable and my parents are overspenders; my grandmother, who's more open in her NPD, used to flat-out ask him to divulge what was most important to us so she could use it to hurt us.) I've been reading and re-reading your messages, and they are a big part of the reason I am occasionally (but increasingly, I hope) able to see her email for the jealous horse!@#$% it was. THANK YOU!
Pseudonym,
I think we have the same mother.
Makes me feel like everything that has gone wrong is always my fault.
In front of DH, she says to me "I don't know what happened between you and ex". (Because yeah, you say that in front of a man who doesn't abuse your daughter)
A simple (not getting into the video game addiction, emotional abuse of myself and the kids), "well Mom he hit me".
Her reply...."well, why?"
I turned to DH and mouthed out loud "WTf did she just say?"
Well, when she heard me say that, she then asked "well how many times?"
My reply "more than once".
Her reply "well I would've left after the first time".
So not only was I in the wrong for leaving ex2 because it was obviously my fault he hit me to begging with, but I was also wrong because I didn't leave after the first time he hit me.
This woman also had the gall to invite him and his new girlfriend to her place for dinner.
Good grief Seven. Your story left me gobsmacked. Utterly toxic behaviour from a parent. Unreal.
Quote from: Seven on August 26, 2020, 02:23:52 PM
Pseudonym,
So not only was I in the wrong for leaving ex2 because it was obviously my fault he hit me to begging with, but I was also wrong because I didn't leave after the first time he hit me.
This woman also had the gall to invite him and his new girlfriend to her place for dinner.
:stars:
Wow, nice M!!!
Mine would always ask about my ex's even though they were abusive to me.????? :doh:
Just before nc I told my NM that we didn't have a good role model, NF and his moods/rages, no love expressed or demonstrated in order for us to choose a good partner.
She answered «well, your're the one who chose them». Darvo.
Today I certainly would tell her about her choice in a husband. :evil2:
Seven and blacksheep,
Yeesh! :bighug: To both of you!
Quote from: blacksheep7 on August 27, 2020, 07:23:04 AM
Quote from: Seven on August 26, 2020, 02:23:52 PM
Pseudonym,
So not only was I in the wrong for leaving ex2 because it was obviously my fault he hit me to begging with, but I was also wrong because I didn't leave after the first time he hit me.
This woman also had the gall to invite him and his new girlfriend to her place for dinner.
:stars:
Wow, nice M!!!
Mine would always ask about my ex's even though they were abusive to me.????? :doh:
Just before nc I told my NM that we didn't have a good role model, NF and his moods/rages, no love expressed or demonstrated in order for us to choose a good partner.
She answered «well, your're the one who chose them». Darvo.
Today I certainly would tell her about her choice in a husband. :evil2:
Oh my Lord
I got the Darvo too
I asked my mum to stop saying how sorry she was for my ( abusive) ex boyfriend. She said his in front of my young children. It was at least 10 years later. Then my Nsis joined in with the sympathy.
My kids were toddlers running round. This guy abused me and assaulted me. The last attack he made on me got him arrested, which I reckon saved my life that night.
And there's my mum saying ' awww I still feel really sorry for him!'
And my sister,
'Yes, me too!'
Then when I told them I didn't want him to be discussed any more, because he ruined my teenage years, mum said, ' Well, you brought him home.'
DARVO
At the time I didn't know what to say to that. I should have got up and left my mum's house and never gone back.
Instead I sat there and took the blame for my own abuse.
Then I put the kettle on like a good daughter and we all had tea.
#I wasstillinthefog
Seven you wrote,
'This woman also had the gall to invite him and his new girlfriend to her place for dinner.'
My mum gave my ex abuser a lift in the car and used to answer nightime calls from him! This is following his conviction for assault on me.
She had also told me when we were dating
( the abuse had begun) that if I finished with him that he would still be invited for lunch. I was 15.
The appalling nature of this treatment is only just becoming fully clear to me now.I'm 61.
I can't believe I didn't have it out with her, ever.
Nano, I'm so sorry and angry about this story! Really disgusting behavior from NMom and Sis -- that sickly sweetness towards people who hurt you -- could have killed you!! Jeezus.
Quote from: nanotech on August 18, 2020, 05:54:55 AM
They see us being loved unconditionally, being loved as we are, being respected and being treated as an equal by someone outside the family. It's an outsider who wants to come in,and who threatens the skewed dynamics, by raising us up.
They find this so difficult to deal with. Unacceptable really.
This someone then loves us the most, and will always love us more, than anyone else in the FOO(of course!). And any children we might have, will also be loved unconditionally by this person for being just as they are.
This is born out by the fact that my UBPDmum adored my first boyfriend (who was an abuser). He learned and played the family system, putting my mum first and just fawning all over her. He was sweetness and light to my mum, quite flirty really I think, though I didn't see it at the time. In contrast, I had two years of hell.
Years later, she still made excuses for his behaviour, and expressed sympathy for him. My UNPD sister chimed in. My children were playing in the room at the time,
The penny has dropped reading your post regarding why my parents dislike my second husband so much but my mother fawned over and would ask about my first, physically abusive husband in a very fond tone. She also invited him to stay with them and told him that he 'would always be welcome''. This is the man who repeatedly assaulted me, including when I was pregnant and finally put me in hospital, lied about that assault in court (by claiming that I had faked my injuries. He was found guilty), fought me for custody of our son by claiming that I was an unfit mother and stole my diaries to 'prove' it. He also tried to starve me out of the home by only providing food for my son rather than the maintenance he should have payed. Then he told my son on visits that I preferred my horses to him.
My mum still loves him and loathes my caring, wonderful second husband.
Thank you so much for clarifying this and helping me see it anew.
And OMG Mathilde! I thought mine was bad for bringing home a man of 34 ( who she fancied and I ended up married to out of a combination of bullying from her and a sense of being worthless/no one else would want me) At the time I was barely 17. He started picking me up late at night (after 10pm) and taking me to his house for the night and my parents didn't say a word.
:bighug: For all of us who have suffered similar abuse.
These stories are truly horrific! I'm so sorry to all went through this.
Years ago my husband left me for someone else, someone he barely knew. My grandmother implied it was my fault.
My father offered no advice except get a good lawyer. My mother had nothing to say about it.
It's really sinking in that not one person in that family had my back. Not one.
It is such a horrible feeling Adrianna when you realise that your family, who most assume will be your strongest supporters, are so undermining and actively abusive.
I am sorry that you have gone through this too.
Quote from: frogjumpsout on August 27, 2020, 09:02:21 PM
Nano, I'm so sorry and angry about this story! Really disgusting behavior from NMom and Sis -- that sickly sweetness towards people who hurt you -- could have killed you!! Jeezus.
Thanks for that frogjumpsout
It seems like many on this thread have an abusive ex that our mothers still seem to adore, long after their demise!
Thry even try to keep them under our roof.
Did they want us to continue to be abused? Makes me wonder.
What on Earth.
It seems unreal sometimes that she was like that. At other times she was so normal and nice.
Nobody would have thought there was any sort of dysfunction.
Adrianna too has suffered in a very similar way! OMG.
I felt unprotected too, and I was allowed to be out late at night with him at his flat.
When my own daughter reached the age of 14/15 I started to realise just how clueless I had been.
I was very watchful with both my daughters.
I also told them what had happened to me. I didn't want it to happen to them.
This thread is helping me remember that some similar things, but lesser in extent, happened to me, too -- first with an abusive stalker ex-boyfriend from college with whom my mother kept in touch for 20 years. She may actually still be in touch with him, but I asked her not to talk to me about it anymore, after she forwarded a threatening message from him to me on my last day of a vacation abroad.
The last conversation NM and I had about this topic went like this:
FROG: I just don't want to hear about his messages anymore, because as I've said, he stalked me in college and afterwards.
NM: (sudden onset of high, innocent child-voice) Could it be...that he's...mentally ill? I just thought it was all so romantic!
Also, she liked to go on about how much she missed and loved my ex-husband, an overt N, after he'd left me. Oh yeah, and she pushed me to try to win ex-h back after I was already with my current partner. When I balked, she screamed "F U!" and hung up the phone.
Thanks giving me a chance to remember and vent about all this!
My family also kept/keep in touch with my abusive ex. While we were married they wanted nothing to do with him.
I got a really big promotion at work and my father said “is that a real promotion or just a [my industry] thing?”
When I was taking my driving test he said “your sister had to take hers 3 times” as a “don’t get your hopes up” dig. When I passed the first time he said “well the test here is much harder”. He has no idea what the test in the county I live in is like.
I have hundreds of examples like these. My family can’t stand it when good things happen to people and they hate it most when I’m the person good things are happening for.
Frogjumpsout and GettingOOTF. I'm sending hugs. :bighug: :bighug:
Chilling, the way they want to minimise our achievements.
Devastating the way they seem to love our abusers, rather than protect us against those memories.
They enjoy speaking with and about our past abusers. This continues the abuse for us.
My mother used to take these late phone calls from my abusive ex. The next day I would be blamed and shamed for the call having 'disturbed' her. They went on for months afterwards.
It's only now that I realise- I feel there must have been a part of her that enjoyed these calls and felt somehow flattered by them.
She told me when he rang he would list all the things that were wrong with me. I think the calls got so abusive that she eventually did start ending them.
Yet for months this abuser rang my mum to denigrate me, and she listened.
I never heard the phone ring in the night.
Why did she listen to him? Why didn't she put the phone down at first sound of his voice? Why were the police never involved?
I used to suggest to her to leave the phone off the hook at night, at least for a time.
She would say very dramatically, and weirdly offended, that she couldn't do that in case her mother was suddenly taken ill.
I then asked her to wake me, and I would deal with it, and then she could sleep.
I was an abused 16 year old. trying to recover, but I couldn't cry to my mum. At no
point could I. My mum cried to me instead.
FYI- Her mother, my grandma, lived three hours drive away and she wasn't alone, living with my aunt. If she were taken ill mum wouldn't have had to go there in the middle of the night. Grandma had support.
My ex was fostered by a family whom my mother stayed in touch with until her death.
They fostered him until he started stealing from them.
My mum said he was just misunderstood. :doh:
Hugs to every single poster on here. :bighug:
This thread has been so cathartic for me.
I've felt/ spoken myself into knowing, into having a deeper awareness of what happened.
Reading your experiences, though I wish it hadn't happened to you, yet it's empowering for me that you share it, and I don't feel alone any more. I used to feel so bleak at times. This thread has helped clear the self- blame I was unaware that I was still carrying around.
Nano I feel the same. There's a lot of healing going on lately in this forum as we all put the pieces together and listen to the similar stories of others.
No one outside of someone with a pd parent or caregiver could possibly ever understand. Without the internet and the knowledge of this, I can't imagine where I'd be. I'd probably still be blaming myself and would have continued to have no boundaries or self worth.
Grateful for this forum!
I feel the same way. It is a revelation that the way my parents, and in particular my mother, behaved is part of a pattern.
For many decades - I am in my 50s - I felt ashamed and responsible for so much of what happened. I could not understand what was so wrong with me that my mother would behave like that.
It is very healing to know that others have endured similar things and that it is not us. It is them.
As Adrianna says, thank god for this site.
Lilith65 I'm glad you found the forum! I agree it's been a blessing. Thank God for the knowledge!
Mine virtually never gives a real apology. It's always something like "I'm sorry but you..." and she would say what I did or said that made her do whatever she's supposedly apologizing for. The other day, she said "I'm sorry for asking questions." I guess she wanted me to tell her how it was okay to ask questions, and she didn't need to apologize, she didn't do anything wrong. But it wasn't the questions she was asking me, it was the critical way she was doing it, what she was obviously implying with them and being all in an uproar about it. If she had simply asked me the questions, it would have been no problem. But she got loud, angry and accusatory.
She also acts like she can't stand my husband sometimes, although she doesn't openly insult him, even just to me. She didn't want me to marry him, and kept saying "I'm just not so sure it's God's will for you to marry him." It wasn't her place to decide what God's will for my life is, and two people told me it sounded like she was more worried about "Diane's will."
After my dad, her husband, died my husband called her "Mama" one day, as a term of endearment, trying to be affectionate toward her. She turned and stared straight ahead and actually shuddered. She literally shuddered as if it was the most horrible thing she had ever heard.
One day she told me my brother had said I was lucky to have my husband. Then she looked at me as if she was trying to tell me "but we know the truth, don't we." The same look she would get sometimes when someone complimented me. Actually, it sounded like a compliment but it was really kind of insulting, as if I was "lucky" to have anyone, and it wasn't the result of my own decision-making and prayer. Anyway, a few minutes later she was yelling at me (long story, totally undeserved) in my dad's hospital room, and when I called my husband to see what time he was going to arrive, she said "Why do you have to have {insert husband's name, said dripping with disgust} when something like this happens?
Anyway, I am quite sure you are NOT a 'failure.' But you don't need validation from me or anybody else. You already know this, and can tell yourself this anytime. The only reason whatsoever that there's any question over the matter is because your mother has serious issues that she is projecting onto you. If she wasn't like that, the concept wouldn't even have crossed your mind, because it doesn't need to.
Thank you, Cassandra! These stories sound all too familiar.
Also, I really appreciate your final paragraph:
Anyway, I am quite sure you are NOT a 'failure.' But you don't need validation from me or anybody else. You already know this, and can tell yourself this anytime. The only reason whatsoever that there's any question over the matter is because your mother has serious issues that she is projecting onto you. If she wasn't like that, the concept wouldn't even have crossed your mind, because it doesn't need to.
This is horrible... I'm so sorry..
Although my children are very young, I cannot imagine ever saying something like this to them! Unacceptable!!!
And my mom did the whole "you'll never know xyz until you have your own children" or the "I'm the adult and know xyz so much more than you because I have the experience."
Let me tell you, I got married, had children, and she still finds something to one up me on no matter what... then after the children comes comparing them to so and so's child and it just never ends. Or your husband is inadequate even though he does everything for you and your family, has a good job, a good heart.
It just never ends. You deserve respect and love from her but she is so miserable she tries to tear you apart just because she knows she can... I'm so sorry hugs to you. Don't listen to her, you are doing wonderful otherwise she wouldn't be trying to tear you down.
My favorite fake apology was from my uNPD sister after I told her how hurt I felt that she stonewalled for months and I had no idea why she was upset. Her apology was something like she understand that I felt hurt and if it hurt anything like it hurt her when I didn't go to church with her years ago when I was visiting from out of town, then it really must be painful. And for causing me that much pain, she was sorry but since I had offended her 6 months earlier when I told her I felt scared when she raged, she decided she didn't want anything to do with me ever again.
I was like - wow--- that is the worst apology I've ever heard. :stars:
Quote from: desertpine on September 09, 2020, 06:33:46 PM
My favorite fake apology was from my uNPD sister after I told her how hurt I felt that she stonewalled for months and I had no idea why she was upset. Her apology was something like she understand that I felt hurt and if it hurt anything like it hurt her when I didn't go to church with her years ago when I was visiting from out of town, then it really must be painful. And for causing me that much pain, she was sorry but since I had offended her 6 months earlier when I told her I felt scared when she raged, she decided she didn't want anything to do with me ever again.
I was like - wow--- that is the worst apology I've ever heard. :stars:
That's not an apology desert pine. It reminds me of my lot. They 'explain' their bad treatment by 'reminding' me of some perceived slight I was supposed to have done to them months or years before.
I didn't even have a clue I'd upset them as they hadn't said at the time. One was a birthday meal that I'd had impossibly late notice of (I'd asked for months about this birthday and kept getting told ' he hasn't decided yet.'
Then I got a garbled voicemail at 10.30 at night, about a meal (30 miles away) that was happening the following evening ( not his birthday). It was a midweek meal and I worked long hours then. Early mornings and and staying late. We would have to pay for ourselves- fine but we were not well off that month. You might know how that goes.
If I knew I had an event coming up I would save in advance. I'd posted his gift in advance as I wasn't hearing about a get-together.
So.... we ended up not going. We believed them when they said it was just an informal meal- short notice so it was up to us.
What narcissists say thry mean, and what they actually mean, are eek different things entirely.
UNPD sister was absolutely fine at the time, but then abruptly and with obvious pleasure, she snubbed my child's 21st party the following year (four months notice for ours and yes, free food!). She cited this apparently offence of ours as the reason. No one from her side
came. We had an amazing party. :cool2:
Fake apologies are familiar, often mixed with guilt trips.
Actual Phone conversation:
"Nana, you're not being nice to me. I'd like you to stop being so mean."
"Oh really Adrianna? You think I'm not nice? Ok, well how about this! You can feel however you like, and if I like, I'll just swallow a bottle of pills."
Click
It's all about them.
Thank you, BuzzyBee! I'm going to copy one of your sentences to reread if I start believing I'm a failure again. Desertpine, what a convoluted and frustrating conversation, and so full of self-pity from your sister's side!
Quote from: Adrianna on September 10, 2020, 05:57:53 PM
Fake apologies are familiar, often mixed with guilt trips.
Actual Phone conversation:
"Nana, you're not being nice to me. I'd like you to stop being so mean."
"Oh really Adrianna? You think I'm not nice? Ok, well how about this! You can feel however you like, and if I like, I'll just swallow a bottle of pills."
Click
It's all about them.
My goodness.mAdrianna? And this is your grandmother? It's appalling behaviour.
My UNBPD mother used to put the phone down if the conversation wasn't going her way too. She wasn't a suicide threatener, but UNPDSister was. Sister would
also put the phone down if the gaslighting/ baiting/ devaluing wasn't having the desired effect on me. So would UNPDBrother. He's a raging 😤 keyboard warrior who is a limp rag🥴 in person.
Everything is a sneak. Passive aggressive is his middle name! He triangulates through dad, who is scared of upsetting him.
My whole family dislike that I met someone
who loves me for me, and doesn't play mind games. So I get scapegoated. My marriage isn't perfect, you know, but it's authentic. There's unconditional love there - in buckets. They can't forgive me for that.
I think it's a sort of jealousy that we've made it into real life and they haven't. It's unconscious maybe, but if frustrates them that we are not troubled like them. They need us to need them. They need us to go along with the family 'traditions' of shaming, guilting, name-calling, mocking, discarding. (us).
We are just NO fun anymore!
So when we call them out,they are astounded.
Thanks nano, and yes that was a conversation I had with my grandmother a few years ago. Appalling is right. It's right up there with the day she yelled at me that if I came to the house and found her dead on the floor, then I know whose fault that would be. (In her opinion, mine obviously. Why you ask? Because I had asked her to stop threatening suicide.)
I should have reported it the first time but I let it go on for years until last year when she started to go off the rails with her behavior and I feared she might actually accidentally kill herself as an attention and pity ploy. That's when I decided enough was enough and asked them to bring her to the hospital. She did not know why she was there and when I told her "well, you told the Meals on Wheels driver you wanted to kill yourself Monday since it was a holiday and he couldn't bring you a meal. He reported it and they took you to the hospital" the look on her face was absolute shock. I of course had told them when they called me, yes, bring her in. She was released that night against my wishes but the following Tuesday talked to the physical therapist about having swallowed some pills the night before (therapist reported it) so that's what got the ball rolling to have her finally evaluated. She of course denied it and we don't know if she took any pills but it finally landed her a 3 day hold in the geriatric psych unit where she got diagnosed with dementia with behavior issues.
She's in a nursing home, has one friend (her roommate who I assume she bosses around) and is miserable and complaining as always. I expect her to be unhappy until she draws her last breath.
It's hard when someone already has a pd then Dementia sets in. You don't know what's the pd and what's the dementia, but it surely was out of control. Before she went into the nursing home I was going to unplug the phone to avoid being harassed. All her usual behaviors were amplified. It was torture to interact with her. Absolutely awful.
I'm sure it's no fun in her head though. That's not a free pass for all the emotional abuse and manipulation she's dished out but being physically apart from her makes it easier to see what a sad way to live. No appreciation, thinking everyone on the planet lives to serve you, not being able to really care or love another person because you can't see outside yourself. Sad all around for the person with the pd and sad for those family and friends who have to deal with the traumatic trail of destruction they leave behind. Many of us are middle aged and we are only now, after all these years, healing from the experience. The amount of therapy, research and soul searching involved in healing from narcissistic abuse is something no one who hadn't experienced it could ever understand.
Adrianna you've been though so much.
Well done and well handled.
I had the suicide threats off UNPDsis for years too.I don't think it was as bad though. Grandmothers really should know better.
It was always left to me ( by other family) to do something about the histrionics of my sister. I also had to be her marriage counsellor for years. I spent a a long time thinking it was my responsibility to save it for her!
Their pathology has nothing to do with us.
Mum often used me as a flying monkey to interfere in or respond to other siblings' lives, to 'fix' something she didn't like.
I did her bidding because I sought her approval.
I'd end up xx with my fingers burnt and shamed.
I was still in the fog then, but even then I knew it wasn't okay.
Nano we were raised to be fixers, and I still struggle with it now. I feel like everyone's happiness is my responsibility but it's not. It's so hard to break that way of relating to others.
This of course is because the pd narcissist can't accept responsibility and has to blame everyone else for their unhappiness. The closest people to this person end up people pleasers.
It's dysfunctional but seemed normal to me.
Quote from: Adrianna on September 12, 2020, 12:55:49 PM
Nano we were raised to be fixers, and I still struggle with it now. I feel like everyone's happiness is my responsibility but it's not. It's so hard to break that way of relating to others.
This of course is because the pd narcissist can't accept responsibility and has to blame everyone else for their unhappiness. The closest people to this person end up people pleasers.
It's dysfunctional but seemed normal to me.
Yes so true Adrianna .
My FOO don't know what the heck's happened, I've got them all blocked on social media ( includes flying monkeys and FMs), They though the blocking was a hissy fit and that I would come around, but it's three years now.
It's great. I love being away from them. No more of their baiting and ghosting. No more of their anything.
My PD sibs and dad think I should feel responsible for their wellbeing. This responsibility also means that I shouldn't have a life myself.
I'm now living my life, NC ( sibs) and VVLC
(dad) and they have no clue why or how I've changed.
I've seen them since I've blocked them( extended family funeral). I just gray rocked with them. It worked fine. They can't seem to discuss things like that face to face, yet they were ruthless keyboard warriors. Take care everyone xxxxx