Out of the FOG

Hi, I've been meaning to ask you for a while, what is the worst thing your PD parent has done that forced you to go NC?
This 'worst' doesn't have to be a generally bad thing but bad enough for you.

The point of this post is to see why people here have gone NC and understand what kind of behavior justifies NC. And yeah, I know that if your intuition says you should cut ties with them, that is enough reason to do so. However, my analytical brain still needs to hear from you what bad behavior was just 'too much' and pushed you over the limit of what you can tolerate.

BTW, there is no physical abuse or even yelling between me and my PD but the emotional manipulation and guilt trips and her constantly controlling every single aspect of my life, plus the lack of interest and empathy for my own personal problems are things that I can't just tolerate anymore.

Anyway, I wanna hear from you.
Thanks

I am probably not alone in saying it was more "death by a thousand cuts." That's why when the moment hits us that we have reached a choice between our well-being or staying in touch, it tends more to be a "snap" in a moment, rather than an event/comments setting it off. The last straw for me was something somewhat insignificant, but at that point I had just had enough. Problem is, it took me decades to do it. I doubt I could have done it at any point before, but in the moment I decided, there was ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT ANYMORE. I didn't lose much - my brothers and dad never even tried to have relationships or stay in touch. And my mom and sister, well....

My Nmom had been an issue for me for years- decades, ever since I moved away and got "brainwashed" by my therapist and DH. After I moved away my uBPD sis and mom got super close. It had felt like them against me for a lot of my life, with mom switching back and forth on who was the GC and who was the scapegoat. When I did something my mom didn't like, my sister did her bidding and bullied me, lectured me, and shut down any discussion of my side. As the years went on, there were so many things the two of them did.....too many to list. But here are a few:

- Minimizing my depression, not getting me help when I was younger. Showing no compassion when I was pleading for it. Asking me if I was still taking my medication when I challenged her on anything or appeared a bit too rational/didn't play her game. Told me my therapist turned me against her.

- Defending my pedophile dad (no physical abuse of me, to be clear), and lashing out at me when I dared be disgusted or show moral opposition to his actions. They defended him and kept trying to force me into a "relationship" with him through guilt (He's your DAAAAAAAAAAD). But mostly they acted like none of it ever happened while getting no therapy to get through such an atomic bomb of devastated trust, immorality, deceitfulness, or mental illness. I was the problem. Nobody defended me in my righteous anger. Not one of them. That hurt more than anything else. The sheer hypocrisy of it all. Making me feel like I was insane for having a perfectly reasonable reaction of shock and complete nausea. To me, they were normalizing the behavior. I mean, can you imagine?

- Telling my MIL to her face, after MIL graciously hosted her for a weekend, that she never liked her son, my DH. Who does that?

- Little things - judgy, passive agreessive comments, not using my married name on addressed packages, forgetting/not acknowledging (every year) my husband's birthday, not paying for services rendered (DH gave them thousands of dollars worth of legal advice, and some work. There was never an offer to pay). They also assumed that I would always work for free. Crappy birthday and Christmas presents - clothes two sizes too big, cheap gifts while buying each other expensive ones. Apparently my husband was not worth more than a couple of pairs of Costco socks.

- Offering financial help when I was having trouble with an a-hole landlord not wanting to honor a lease agreement. Then not mentioning it again until she revealed she gave the money to my brother. But I'm glad I never took money from them. They never did anything for me and I never asked.

- Sneaky behavior. Not necessarily involving me, but at one point, my sister and mom didn't like who my brother was dating, so they hired a private detective to look into her and her finances. They then found out she had a lot of debt, convinced my brother that she was a liar and a cheat, and he broke up with her.
This behavior was not uncommon - my mother destroyed all of my siblings relationships through manipulation, slander, sowing doubt and playing victim. Especially GC oldest brother - one marriage, then any other attempt to have a girlfriend until he gave up and is alone at almost 60.

- Showing no interest in my life or me. You get to the point of "why am I continuing this?" Not to sound transactional, but there was no benefit to my having them in my life. Only pain. I had simply had enough. No one can tell you when you will reach that point. You'll just know when it happens, because it will feel more right than needlessly suffering in the name of "family."

We had a sudden crisis, capping many years of a slowly degrading relationship.

The crisis was a perfect storm, reaching across four generations of the family. We respected a senior's brief request for privacy as they considered end-of-life decisions, which my MIL did not appreciate. Normally, we'd bend the knee, do a little recantation, and move on. In this case, the end-of-life decisions of a special person had to be protected. Before we knew what hit us, my MIL announced she no longer wanted to interact with either of us.

The anger levels were so high that their ordinary bellicose ways were left in the dust, but we couldn't just accept their demands without jeopardizing the well-being of our grandfather. Within a few weeks, MIL wrote that she had crossed a personal point of no return: she never again would ever want a relationship with us. This was in a six-page letter that enumerated lots of inflammatory reasons to dislike us. I didn't think this letter was so terrible, because I am an emotional dunce. It cut my wife to the bone.

We began learning, and reading. And erecting boundaries.

But she was not accepting it. And soon she told us that the only goal she had was to get us entirely out of her life. This was gold-plated with more outrageous criticisms of us: that we were deeply immoral and selfish, and so on. That was six months into it. At that point, we cut her mic. We announced that her unwillingness to have a relationship with us meant no relationship with our household: so no more contact with our dear son.

Down the road from this, she wrote a multi-page letter to a trusted member of our community smearing us: calling us terrible names, accusing us of terrible things like withholding customary care from an injured elderly man and purposely hurting a disabled child. It was batshit insane stuff. Her description of us read like a demon's resume. Fortunately, the recipient could tell how off it all was. She forwarded all of the communications to us and refused to answer the questions my MIL was asking about my son's schedule. I considered this last action, and my FIL's defense of it, to be the worst thing they did.

All along the way, my FIL's incoherent defense of absolutely anything his wife might say was stunning. He elided facts, dropped them, and made them up. When caught on a point he'd simply stop and stare and move on. I live in a world where words have meaning and they connect to one another. I was blown away.

I remain deeply desirous of vindication. I want to walk them through step by step what really happened and how it differs from their fever dreams. But I will probably never get the chance. They know I know the score, and have no interest in discussing it with me.

Quote from: Stardust1982 on December 02, 2020, 10:21:56 AM
Hi, I've been meaning to ask you for a while, what is the worst thing your PD parent has done that forced you to go NC?

In my case it was years and years of abuse from my mother. Several times I tried to go NC but I ended up caving, when she suddenly acted all nice again. I was groomed from an early age to think that I was inherently selfish, too demanding and spoiled. So everytime I put up boundries for my mother, even in adulthood, I always ended up giving in because I thought of myself as being too 'tough' on her.

Just recently, the last straw came. My mother always had a way of controlling me and my sister with money.  She would give us or promise us sums of money and then act abusive. If I put up a boundry against the abuse, she would demand the money back and rage like a lunatic, calling me every nasty name you can think of.

The last time we spoke was the same conversation around money. She acused me of abusing my son and of stealing from her. She yelled and screamed and would not let me get a word in, told me I was stupid, irresponsible, a catastrophe, that I had always hated her from I was a baby (!), that I was responsible for my fathers death and much much more. Basically, it was a confession list of all the things she has done to me   :stars:

I am very determined that the NC will be permanent this time.

I'll focus on my M because F has been out of the picture for 20 years, whole other story. I'm not sure M is PD. I think covert N/tendencies, some childhood memories smack of BPD. NC with her for 4 months.

The real damaging PD in my FOO is sibling. GC, definitely uNPD, and very, very likely uASPD (psychopathic and sadistic behavior). Sibling has infected my whole FOO. My M enables the behavior and would have us other siblings do *anything* to keep PD sibling appeased regardless of how she treats you. ("Get her a job with your business!" "Please call her she's having a hard time." "She's damaged, you'll have to forgive her.")

I went NC with this sib over a year ago. I was just done. She seemed to completely despise me (and get pleasure from it) because I was seeing through her shenanigans, and there was no way forward with her, she relished hating me. She more or less told me I was an awful person and a burden to the family, ever since I was a baby, in our last conversation. My DH to her was poison, too. I was done, and for lots of other reasons too.

Since then (I think as sadistic punishment for cutting off contact) she's been hard at work weaving lies, rumors, and slander about me to my M and other sibling, who I was extremely close with. They took the bait hook, line, and sinker. For over a year, they tried whittling me down to a nub and as covertly as possible, and I just dealt with it while feeling guilty for something, I didn't know what, and I only had to keep putting up more boundaries.

The last straw: a rumor came around to me from a close, trusted friend of many years (who has seen thru sib's PD mask, and wanted to warn me) that this sib was saying my husband was physically beating me and controlling me, and had intentions to destroy my family (her crazy way of explaining my boundaries). This idea was manufactured and obsessively talked about by my sib with her friends and FOO, anyone who would hear. Worse, friend said my PD sib was sleuthing hard to make her reality seem as real as possible: she was trying to get in touch with my husband's ex's to weave something together, and it was starting to get frightening. PD sibling was trying to get other FOO to believe her on this and "save" me. FOO had been "brainwashed" for lack of a better word, and it explained a lot of their behavior the past year trying to pick my life apart.

I was irate. My husband now heartbroken and riddled with his own guilt and FOG. My M pushed the idea of visiting me not long after I discovered this. Tired of the games and needing to protect my real partner in life and FOC, I confronted her about these rumors and said I didn't want her or any FOO anywhere near me or my home or my husband for a while, not until she and FOO figured out how to repair this damage with me and SIL. They threatened our safety and our trust.

I laid one final boundary: "Do not tell me that all of this is not happening or you have not heard this. I know you have heard this rumor. If you deny it and gaslight me, I will be forced to cut off communication even further, in the interest of protecting ourselves."

M's response: "This is crazy. (PD sibling) would never say anything like that. She cares about you. If we really thought that was happening we would have rushed out there immediately. This is insane."

I went NC after that.

The worst thing that happened upon which I went NC was at the wedding of my GC sister's son.  Five months prior, I told my sister where my boundaries were with our relationship. She told me to "just deal with it". I explained I was then backing off and I did. So, I was NC with her for 5 months when the wedding took place. Leading up to it, my parents kept saying that I was causing my sister too much stress and I was ruining the wedding, It was a familiar routine that they all played during my whole life. My sister triangulated with parents. They accused me of something my sister made up and demanded I fix it. The three of them were united against me for something my sister fabricated. I had stopped JADEing by that point. My parents urged me angrily to make up to her, and got mad at me when I said that was not possible. They were the victims and I was the bad guy. 

The wedding occurred and I attended for my nephew with a smile on my face. All was going fine until the reception where my sister sat me at her table. She glared at me the whole time and I heard her complain to her husband that I had not even said hello to her yet. At one point, I got up to go to the restroom and her husband walked over and grabbed both my  hands and dragged me into a corner and asked me why I was not speaking to my sister. He got in my face so close I had to put my hand on his chest to get physical space. I was upset and felt assaulted.  I looked around the room and nobody was paying attention and if I screamed I knew they would all think I caused a problem, so I just calmly told him we would make amends in time and walked off. Fortunately, he did not go after me.  When I returned to my seat, my dad walked over and told me to say hello to my sister and waived her over. She came over and both she and my dad stood over me glaring. I told my dad to stay out of it. He angrily demanded I speak to my sister. I got up, grabbed my purse and walked out. As I did my dad yelled out to me that I had just ruined the wedding. I have not spoken to my sister since only only VVVVLC with parents.  That was 3 years ago.
   
This was the last straw, but the real cause is repeated patterns through your life that never improve and your efforts to resolve things only make you feel increasingly worse.     

The breaking point was when they refused to cut contact with my abusive ex who was using them to keep tabs on me because “we won’t take sides”.  I immediately cut contact with my siblings and then a year later with my father.  It has been a long time coming but he called me at work and said some incredibly inappropriate and hurtful things and then laughed. I cried at my desk.  The next day I blocked him and haven’t spoken to him since.

To add this was after a lifetime of abuse. I was in therapy at the time and had spent a couple of years working on my self esteem and the toxic behaviors I learned growing up. I realized I didn’t need to stand for their treatment of me and walked away. There was no blow up, no explanation, no calls or emails. I simply cut contact and I feel so much better for it.

I decided to go NC when I got married seven years ago. There were dozens and dozens of incidents over the years that helped me to see that my parents are NPD and that our family dynamic is totally enmeshed. However, the clincher events that happened while my husband and I were engaged really pushed me to go NC when we returned from our honeymoon.

The first incident was at our 'family engagement celebration.' At this event my mother pointed her finger at me in front of everyone and said she wanted 'to have a discussion with me' in the other room, like I was four years old (I was 32 at the time). This was so normal to me that I actually followed along. She proceeded to confront me about something hurtful I had done. What was it? What was so hurtful that I needed to be confronted at my engagement celebration? I had invited my sister and brother in law over for dinner and hadn't invited my OTHER sister and brother-in-law. My mother was upset that I had done this. The reason I had invited Sister A and her husband over for dinner was that she was leaving the state and moving all the way across country, and I wanted to spend some quality time with them before they went. This apparently was unacceptable. Sister B (who is also NPD) felt 'left out' and 'really hurt' that I had done this, told my mother, and my mother proceeded to attack me. At my own engagement dinner. Because Sister B is always right and her feelings are always more important than mine. Even when I was engaged and the celebration was supposed to be for me.

The second incident was on my wedding day. My mother showed up at the church and she was frowning and in a nasty mood because she couldn't figure out the parking system at the church. I was standing there with my wedding planner, and my mother was frowning and snippy and rude to me, on my WEDDING DAY. The wedding planner was watching this unfold and looking at me like 'what the hell is going on?' and I could actually see the event unfolding as an outsider looking in and that did it, I realised right then and there that there were no exceptions or exemptions from the dysfunction in my family, not even my wedding day was protected from my parents acting selfishly and only concerned with their own feelings.

Those seem 'mild' incidents to me now compared to my entire life history within my family - I was beaten with a belt as a child and hit with paddles, my parents screamed and cursed in front of us or at us (my mother loved to call me a son of a bitch, which makes no sense considering I am female), yet my parents also put on a good show at church, etc. etc. However those two incidents around my engagement and wedding day pushed me over the edge.

past year was a "crisis" year
not just with PD parent but ALL siblings

this led to high levels of stress causing me to sleep only 3 or 4 hrs/night
with my physical health being affected, it just had to stop!

feeling so much better after going NC & back to sleeping 7 hrs/night
NC definitely worth it for me!





fyi-forgave PD parent before becoming a parent myself & that was freeing
however, this past yr so much happened with parents/several siblings
it was a new crisis practically everyday

Although Nmom and Endad did LOTS to warrant NC (falsely telling college Dean my fiancee had a gun and was threatening me, writing slanderous letters to my in-laws, conspiring with others in my losing a job, etc), what finally sealed it (temporarily) was when. Nmom went after my sons with lies, gaslighting, rage, etc.  I even gave her a specific warning and she couldn't wait to dig in again. I went NC for five glorious months.  She's declining and I'm in touch now, but it is exhausting.  If I were thinking solely of my own well being I'd still be NC.

@Liz1018 our experiences are similar! Thanks for sharing.

'- Showing no interest in my life or me. You get to the point of "why am I continuing this?" Not to sound transactional, but there was no benefit to my having them in my life. Only pain. I had simply had enough'-THIS!!! This is a VERY good reason to go NC with them and I am starting to think the same way. Why continue a relationship that brings only pain and no emotional benefits?

@Honey_B your mother sounds like a nightmare! Good for you for cutting ties with her. I hope all is well now
Hugs

@DistancenotDefense your mother is truly narcissistic. That's how narcissists are, they just gaslight everyone who doesn't agree with their version of the story. Good for you for leaving them for good.

Death by a 1000 paper cuts yeah that had a lot to do with it with both FOO and inlaws.  Lots of disrespect and belittling behaviour.  Its the same as everyone else, it wasn't just one incident, these are the final straw moments after years of toxic behaviours.  There are other stories however this is when I went NC.

With my inlaws there was constant drama and disrespect leading up to the final straw moment.  I came home and MIL was in our house cleaning.  I told her it was unnecessary and went to leave the room.  As I went to leave the room she blocked me from leaving, physically blocked me in my own house as she tried to argue with me.  I was shaken by this, really shaken with this physical confrontation.  A couple of weeks later I went to talk to her and was calm and completely respectful to her.  She said nothing to me during the talk, told me everything was fine from her end, a few insults were thrown my way but after I left she called my husband and lied about me and lied about what I had said.  I went NC in that moment.  I knew how I had acted, I knew what I had said.  During the talk I didn't even bring up the physical incident with my MIL, I actually brought up other stuff which I believed were issues with the intention of asking how she felt or if she thought there were issues between us, I was genuine in my approach to her, it was my last ditch effort to try anything to get the relationship back on track.  To me what happened was over the top crazy and I felt it was time for a talk, I wasn't even angry with her, I just wanted to really talk to say what is going on.  I couldn't believe what had happened.  However when she lied, I knew there was nothing I could do and left and have never regretted NC.  I am now VVVLC after being NC for years I only see them twice a year for an hour and can manage that.

With my parents I went NC for a couple of years after my mother contacted my sister and outright lied about me.  My mother was upset with me because my husband called her after my surgery rather than me, I was still waking up.  She called my sister and told her that I was refusing to talk to her and had told the nurses that I didn't want to speak to her.  She never spoke about this with me, she contacted my sister and spoke to her about it and did a smear campaign against me.  My sister then sent me abusive text messages telling me how horrible I was.  That was the only way I knew what was happening behind my back because of my sisters text messages.  My mother had been talking to me just fine as if nothing was wrong at the same time she was complaining to my sister.  I eventually re-established contact however more recently have taken a break.  This is due to ongoing belittling behaviour and insults throughout this year.  I am just tired and don't know how to deal with it, so I am taking time out to work on myself and see how I feel.

I am struggling these past few days, moving into guilt and doubt. I'm glad that I have a therapy appt. today bc I am feeling really shaky about all of this.

What I am struggling with is that I set all of the family difficulties off by saying no to it. My father and sister are so covert. This is very confusing to me. Both of them have done and do kind and valuable acts in the community. My father used to go to old folks homes and play music for the people and do sing alongs. Both he and my sister are very jolly and warm.

This is really hard for me. I appear to be the pent up, quiet troll in the family. (See: need to see therapist today badly. )

Death by a thousand paper cuts for me as well. The childhood experience of growing up in extreme rageful fighting, hitting, degrading family dynamic. My father had a hair trigger temper on a bad day but those bad days came far and few between. However, when they came I truly believed he hit to kill, and there was no apologies afterward to tell us he lost it and felt bad. My mother was just unstable and seemed to hate my sister. (My sister was an unwanted pregnancy and my mother never stopped blaming her for ruining her life.)

Because I was so much younger than my sister I was like these big eyes watching everything like it was a horror movie. When I moved out and moved far away, the once a year visits to them all were fine. They were happy to see me and had their best faces on. But when I moved back to the shared home town it began to fray. My mother never once helped me with my baby at the time, when I was even just needing a half hour of care between me going to my job and my Dh getting home. She never called to see how I was. My father would offer but he creeped me out and I can't figure out why.

My sister suffered from health issues and was prescribed opiates. She began to go downhill by her mid-thirties with up and down behaviour and found a sanctuary in a fundamental religion that I thought helped her, but in many ways it told her that she merely needed to pray the addictive behaviour away and she'd be cured and she's still taking percocet and have up and down behaviour.

My father's hoarding went from basement to three paid for barns and garages, the family cottage and then the entire upper level of his home with my mother. My mother and father fight about it in front of everybody continually. Nothing changes.

I began to be left out of things as my sister began to get closer to other aunts and uncles who shared her form of religion and I'd find out later I'd been left out of family dinners and get togethers. I never judged her for her choice of worship. I just didn't feel drawn to it myself.

It didn't get strange until her kids became older and she began to complain about them to me constantly. I love her kids and I hated hearing the horrible things she said about them. She seemed to want to control their every move and talked all the time about her son's drug problem, her percocet issues and her daughter's bad choice in a boyfriend. I brought her pamphlets and I asked her to get help. I also asked her to stop talking behind her kid's backs (she once spent an hour telling my husband's mother about it - his mother who barely knows them) and that is when my sister went really dark. She became pouty and petty because I'd set a boundary. People dropped off our shared social media. She had confided in them I guess, framing me as a problem.

When my uNPDmother got deathly ill, my sister's controlling got worse. She tried to schedule my time at the hospital (using her migraines as reasons she was struggling - completely ignoring i was barely able to walk, much less sit for hours due to a severe back issue I had that was flaring up then) so this did not work for me. It was also important for me that I had Dh with me to buffer my mother's rage, as she masked up when he was there.) I had to again set boundaries and more people dropped off my sister and my shared social media. She must have painted me as selfish and unloving. But for me, I was having flashbacks to my childhood and I was falling apart and trying to keep my head above water.

Then I found out thru a cousin and friend that my father was saying horrible things about me to the extended FOO and that they had to defend me. I felt so so so betrayed and vulnerable.

I began to back away last year when I tried to LC with my parents and very minimal contact with my sister. My fathers's sneering and pouting when I went to visit became really uncomfortable. I still had a lot of love for them at that point and I was trying to solve some of the issues they were having. Money was bad. The began to ask me for money. The hoarding was bad. The gambling was bad. It was so dark and miserable. My mother called me fat countless times. My father began to do weird things where he was writing little letters accusing me of taking advantage of them - when I was only trying to help them. Last fall I decided to take care of myself during the Christmas season and tell them via letter that I was struggling with anxiety and depression and my doctor had told me spend time healing and avoid stress.

That break from them lasted until spring where I made a few attempts to go see them, but again my mother called me fat and my father pouted and it was awkward. I had distanced completely from my sister and they brought this up every time I went. They shamed me and rubbed in that I was missing out on the FOO get togethers. In August my father did the final action that made me feel anger. He told me to go back and see my shrink after showing up uninvited to my home and gossiping this entire drama about his brothers and sister. He said some bizarre things, like he was as smart as a lawyer, as smart as a psychiatrist, that he was shrewd and in charge of everything and my Dh and I just sat there listening. When he said I needed to go see a shrink I stood up and told him to leave.

First time I've ever stood up to my father in my entire life.

I just cannot see this getting better. I feel terrible about it all. It breaks my heart daily. I'm willing to look at myself and admit to my failings but they are not willing to look at how much their behaviour hurts others.

Being near them is so painful for me. And yet, still I tend to think if only i could just accept their failings I'd be a better person.

well, to be honest, I have sometimes felt I don't belong on this forum, when I read all the very terrible experiences others have had with their families.  In my case, I have had some bad experiences to be sure, but it is more of a death by a thousand paper cuts.  Then it is the concrete bad experiences that put it into focus for me. 

I have felt like an outsider in my family all  my life, never being accepted or loved for myself.  My mother puts me down and talks bad about me, both within the family and to other people.  Or she ignores  me.  She has succeeded in placing me on the outside in this way.  Whenever she feels angry, frustrated or sad about something, it is always somehow my fault, because I am not a "good" daughter.  She never seems to be pleased or proud to have me as her daughter.  Even though I have had some exceptional achievements in my life and there is a lot to be proud of.  I am a good person, but she seems to think I am the devil.  She accuses me of being selfish and ungrateful.  I have come to understand that I am just not what she wants in a daughter, so there is really very little in this relationship for me, because she doesn't accept me.

I went to LC after my father died.  At that time, she decided to float the idea of an unequal inheritance, where I would receive less than my sister.  I said I was opposed to this, and she paid no heed.  For me It is important that things are done fairly, but she wanted to do things her way, even though it was unfair to me and my children, and had no understanding whatsoever of how I would feel.  If she wanted to have a good relationship with me and my children, she would at least pretend to listen and care about how I feel.  But she was oblivious.   As if I didn't matter.  At that time she also blamed me for unduly influencing my father when he made his will.  This was completely unfounded and untrue, and there was nothing at all unfair in how my father made his will.  He was an extremely conscientious and fair-minded individual who would never hurt anyone.  But she saw an opportunity to make some drama, draw attention to herself,  and blame me for a crime, so she did.  Things continued at LC, with intermittent attempts at a relationship, and arguments/discussions about how I would get less and my sister would get more.  She would always try to frame this in such a way that I am being selfish for insisting on fairness, and why don't I understand her point of view.  It was just very offensive to me.  At some point I just stopped talking to her.  Then about 7 years after my father died, she and my sister decided to disinherit me from the remainder of the family estate (her estate), without telling me.  We were already not speaking at this time.  About a year and half later, I found out about this, and I started action with an attorney to reclaim at least what my father had left me, which had been under her auspices until then.  So I did that.  That was 5 years ago and now I have no contact with them.   

Other concrete examples occurred throughout my life.  She tried to prevent me from going to graduate school, on a full scholarship including room and board, because it was inconvenient for her.  She harassed me to get married to different men of her choice, even though I was in school and not looking for that (another way to control me).  She blamed me for her medical problems, because of the stress I cause her.  She threatened to report me to the police for child neglect, because she disagrees with me on child care.  She tried to influence my husband and in-laws against me with her innuendo.  She speaks bad about me and my husband in front of my children.  She tells me she "has done everything for me" when actually I have done a helluva lot for myself, and she doesn't acknowledge this at all.  She told me she should have aborted me.   

So it was all of these things together; the general way I feel, the smaller things and the big things that, over time, led to LC and then to NC. 

Quote from: Stardust1982 on December 03, 2020, 07:52:37 AM
@DistancenotDefense your mother is truly narcissistic. That's how narcissists are, they just gaslight everyone who doesn't agree with their version of the story. Good for you for leaving them for good.

Thanks! To me, it's really hard to see her as narcissistic because she is so covert, and because I love her and have good, warm memories of her too. But maybe she really is narcissistic (tendencies, definitely...PD? Dunno) and I need to see and accept that.

That is such a common theme in this thread: minimizing the abuse we've experienced, thinking it's not that bad, comparing it to others' and thinking we don't belong here.

Like Denden: your mother said she should have aborted you...how horrible!!! Anyone who told me that IRL I would say "that is awful and abusive." Whether it was a friend, neighbor, relative. But you don't think you belong here. I disagree!

Everyone's situation is unique, but no matter the details, each of us built up a thick skin and lots of denial to survive our families. I have a lot of denial to unwrap.

Same as many here, death by a thousand cuts. However, having a baby kinda opened my eyes to realize how bad much of the past behavior, the previous cuts, had actually been. Hindsight became suddenly very powerful. NC almost a year now.

Death by 1,000 cuts for 30+ years here, too.   The issue that finally blew it up started when I read the book "Boundaries" a few years ago.  I started enacting some basic boundaries and she flipped out.  Her normal controlled, waify, victim self, got angry when I stopped calling daily and put her on an info diet.  It took me months of her escalating behavior to finally go NC.  I felt so guilty and afraid. 

The info diet caused her to spiral like an addict without their drug until she started sending me and my DH texts and emails that my enD was threatening to commit suicide and it was all my fault because I wasn't being "kind to" them. :stars:  The emails gave a description of how he was going to do it. It sounded immediate and urgent, so DH and I called them right away and said that we were calling 911.  She got her phone call which is exactly what she wanted, but by the time she sent the texts, he was off doing some household chores.   He told me that he made the threat but it was because she was verbally abusing him, and he could no longer take it.  It was no longer an emergency, and it had nothing to do with me. 

To put it in my perspective, my college boyfriend committed suicide in the same way many years ago.  His parents blamed me and I spent years in therapy after to accept that it wasn't my fault.   She knew this, but sent the texts anyway.    :mad:  I was furious and I told my enD that I would no longer communicate with her other than by emails that included him so he could see what she was saying.  Of course, she refused. 

I told my enD that I needed an apology, or I was done.   She eventualy sent me an apology that blamed her boss for teaching her how to talk to people in a critical way and then told me that all of the critical (abusive) things she said to me for 30+ years were for my own good and I was just overreacting (the "too sensitive" line from a narcissist).  I should do what she says, understand that she is only trying to be helpful and then we wouldn't have a problem.  I didn't accept her fauxpology.  Then she started texting my teen daughter guilt trippy things about how she might never see her again because I am so mean. 

I blocked my PDm from all devices and the NC with her started then, but left my enD able to contact just me.  He started posting on social media about how mean I was and how terrible it is when adult children take grandchildren away for no reason.  He asked for people to pray for him because of what I was doing to them. It included lies, exaggerations and pictures of my kids!!!   His church friends took screen shots of his post and started posting it, too.  I had to contact the company to have the posts removed because they contained pictures of my children!  Then he was blocked.   I was then NC with him as well.

Later he found a way to contact me to let me know that I was removed from their POA and all other legal documents.  (Hooray!  I didn't want that responsibility anyway).  They got another communication to us demanding back financial gifts that they had sent to us many years ago. 

I'm now totally NC and just waiting for the next attempt to contact me.  I'm guessing it will be from them or a flying monkey when one of them gets sick or dies. 

Going on 7 years of NC (real NC). It was a last-straw ragey meltdown 100% same as how she scared me when I was a defenseless and vulnerable child.

Now she's 90 and has outlived all the people she loved/treated So well.

Quote from: Liz1018 on December 02, 2020, 11:33:23 AM
I am probably not alone in saying it was more "death by a thousand cuts."

That was definitely the case with me. There wasn't a specific incident that led to me go NC. I had been holding all of her abuse inside me for 40+ years and was a volcano ready to erupt.

When it finally happened it was completely spontaneous. We had an argument over the phone and for the first time in my life, I called her out on her bad behavior. No one had ever taken her to task before and she didn't know how to handle it. She melted down and went infantile. Something inside me just said enough. I hung up on her and that was that.

"You've become an evil person".

I grew up terrified of mother's violent rages. Her fights with Dad were awful. I witnessed some terrible stuff. When I was a teenager she attacked me and I ended up in hospital. Dad covered up for her. Then I got married, had kids, and she turned into a doting granny. I thought she was making amends. I thought she must be sorry for what happened when I was a child - though she never said sorry. Then my children grew up and she returned to her old manipulative, abusive ways. I confronted her about what happened when I was young and she denied it all. She said I was an evil liar - said the same to my husband and family.  My dad stood by her. The denial feels as bad as the original cruelty. I am really struggling with it.

Wow. Reading the replies leads me to the conclusion that we were raised by truly awful people.

Sidney, that is some horribly abusive crap to deal with. Nice churchgoing friends your mom has there, huh? Kind of shows how adept PDs are at garnering sympathy. What always makes me laugh is that they claim we are such awful people. Well....uh.... wouldn't that reflect poorly on the people who raised us? Like.....THEM???

Just Kathy - that how it happened for me. Honestly, I saw it coming, but I didn't- you know? In that moment, it kind kind of surprised me how utterly certain I was that I was DONE. DH didn't believe me at first. When I told him no, this is it, no more, he was shocked. And this was AFTER she called him "such a bastard" on the phone. I could tell she had been waiting to say something like that for years.

Danden -

Quote from: Danden on December 03, 2020, 10:50:41 AM
   

I have felt like an outsider in my family all  my life, never being accepted or loved for myself. 

I have felt this way too. It only got more pronounced as I got older. I was the youngest. My older siblings seemed to resent my presence. Either that or they ignored me. I learned to be ok with being alone.

Hepatica - no words. I want to give you a big hug. The chaos these people create to avoid dealing with their own stuff is beyond comprehension l. It must take so much energy always being the victim, but they seem to get juiced from it while sucking the life out of us.

it was a new crisis practically everyday
[/quote]

Jolie40 - Yup. My FOO pretty much existed in crisis mode. That's not a sustainable way to live. Very often, the crisis was my oldest brother :  arrested, car crashes, DUIs (suspension of license which means my parents had to taxi him around for years), gambling debts and bookies threatening to break his legs, messy divorce where he threatened suicide, not taking his insulin so he wound up in the hospital. And that was just the one sibling. One crisis melted into another. The "other shoes" dropped like they were on an assembly line.

DistanceNotDefense- that is some bats—t crazy stuff. My sister actually spurred my NC by going NC with me, first. We had a big blowup because I dared talk about how our parents failed us. I was 100% honest with her. She flipped out, calling me names, accusing me of all sorts of things, accusing DH of turning me against all of them. Her last words to me (before she hung up on me mid-sentence - ever mature, that one!) were "Dont ever call or text me again!" I didn't think she even meant it. I tried sending an occasional text after that thanking her for doing some things for my parents that she didn't have to do. No answer. If there was an answer it was terse. Like one word.

Months went by. I still talked to my mom regularly and no mention of any of it. I thought possibly sis hadn't told her, but that seemed unrealistic. Finally, NM hinted at calling sis because she "hadn't heard from in in months"  :aaauuugh:
I told her I was respecting sis's wishes by not calling her. I figured  sis would be pissy for a bit then act like none of it ever happened. NM persisted in telling me " Family is the most important thing. You need to call her - she is really upset. She's your only sister..." It was clear whose side she was on.

LizzyLou- yes, the denial is mind-bending, and it's own form of cruelty. Up is down, sky is yellow and the sun is blue. They have no problem letting us feel we are crazy. We are evil. . Sadly, most of us start to believe this about ourselves. The mind games create their own wreckage in our romantic and friendly relationships.

Poet and Punk- I am so sorry your wedding day memories are tainted by their abhorrent behavior. That's some unforgivable stuff. EXACTLY the reason I did not have a wedding. That way, they couldn't ruin it. They ruined 2 subs' weddings, so I had fair warning. So sad.

Her calling you a son of a bitch is hilarious. Since that would make her ....the bitch?

TwentyTwenty- yes, "you've become an evil person."  :roll:
Well good, because I have been working on it. Those night classes in evil really paid off.

Blueberry Pancakes- that's some next level childishness. Why do weddings bring out the worst, most cruel behavior in PDs? Oh, right, they hate other people's happiness.

Honey- hating her since you were a baby, huh? That defies all reason. Obviously a confession.

Group hug, everyone.

Quote from: lizzylou on December 04, 2020, 06:55:55 AM
When I was a teenager she attacked me and I ended up in hospital. Dad covered up for her. Then I got married, had kids, and she turned into a doting granny. I thought she was making amends. I thought she must be sorry for what happened when I was a child - though she never said sorry. Then my children grew up and she returned to her old manipulative, abusive ways. I confronted her about what happened when I was young and she denied it all. She said I was an evil liar - said the same to my husband and family.  My dad stood by her. The denial feels as bad as the original cruelty. I am really struggling with it.

I'm so sorry lizzylou. I'm dealing with similar strokes to what you are: denial, cruelty, family attacking my marriage, career, choices, and lifestyle.

You didn't deserve that treatment back then and you don't deserve the treatment now, your kids neither. A mother injuring you so you need to go to the hospital is not normal, it is awful. Denying it...awful. Calling you an evil liar, awful. You deserve better. It's not healthy.

Just remember that any accusation against you from people disordered like this is a confession. Perhaps your mother is the evil liar and she knows it.

Quote from: Liz1018 on December 04, 2020, 09:31:24 AM
Just Kathy - that how it happened for me. Honestly, I saw it coming, but I didn't- you know? In that moment, it kind kind of surprised me how utterly certain I was that I was DONE. DH didn't believe me at first. When I told him no, this is it, no more, he was shocked. And this was AFTER she called him "such a bastard" on the phone. I could tell she had been waiting to say something like that for years.

My DH is also in this stage. He has had such vile opinions, accusations, and rumors so covertly leveled at him. But he thinks he brought it on and it's his fault somehow, "Maybe if I just acted differently" That's where they get you. They've FOGged him good. It can be frustrating when I reach to him for validation that my FOO is wildly ill. The worst words I've gotten from him is "I can't even wrap my head around this, it is so....foul." I still don't think he gets fully how likely it is that FOO are out if my life for good.....and in huge part because of how they've treated both of us, not just me. It was also my moral impetus to protect him!

The power of the PD is mighty.

Quote from: Liz1018 on December 04, 2020, 09:31:24 AM
DistanceNotDefense- that is some bats—t crazy stuff. My sister actually spurred my NC by going NC with me, first. We had a big blowup because I dared talk about how our parents failed us. I was 100% honest with her. She flipped out, calling me names, accusing me of all sorts of things, accusing DH of turning me against all of them. Her last words to me (before she hung up on me mid-sentence - ever mature, that one!) were "Dont ever call or text me again!" I didn't think she even meant it. I tried sending an occasional text after that thanking her for doing some things for my parents that she didn't have to do. No answer. If there was an answer it was terse. Like one word.

Months went by. I still talked to my mom regularly and no mention of any of it. I thought possibly sis hadn't told her, but that seemed unrealistic. Finally, NM hinted at calling sis because she "hadn't heard from in in months"  :aaauuugh:
I told her I was respecting sis's wishes by not calling her. I figured  sis would be pissy for a bit then act like none of it ever happened. NM persisted in telling me " Family is the most important thing. You need to call her - she is really upset. She's your only sister..." It was clear whose side she was on.

Thanks! Every time someone points out to me how nuts it all is I'm like PHEW! You see it, too?! It's not just me. I'm not crazy. (Especially with FOGged, but supportive and on my side, DH). I can't believe this is my life. I seriously think about writing an anonymous memoir. There is so much more detail that I don't even share here, it is craaaazy.l

Liz1018 my PD sib cut me off in the same way actually, she just dropped me and stopped talking to me first. My NC with her was just an acceptance. I confronted her on the phone about it. She literally said "I just don't get much out of talking to you anymore." Years after leaving her alone, apparently that was the wrong choice too. There was no right choice clearly. She used that as fodder in our very last conversation we had together, over a year ago, in which she first denied that she cut me off... I pressed her, she gaslit, then said she didn't know what I was referring to....then when the gaslighting didn't work, said I deserved being cut off because I'm a mean person.

Of course I air this all out to other FOO because they had some similar observations and complaints about her. Uh oh! I broke the family rule I didn't know about. Everyone can complain about anyone else in the family, except Distance can't complain. Once Distance opens their mouth, it's everyone against Distance, they're a traitor, and it's fair game. Like your M liz1018, my M and other sib made it clear who they sided with in the most gaslighty, covert, non-confrontational, and passive-aggressive way possible.

Quote from: Liz1018 on December 04, 2020, 09:31:24 AM
Group hug, everyone.

I second this. So much. :grouphug:

Everyone here has, literally, been through the unimaginable and inconceivable in the minds of the majority of the population. We are survivors of mental and spiritual torture others couldn't even begin to fathom, unless they've escaped a cult.

You all deserve safety and peace, and to stay far away from the brokenness and malevolence.

After a lifetime of abuse, my covert narc enabler mother STILL tried to push a relationship and play happy families with my abuser narc father. I became a mother and decided that's it. No more. She visited us ONCE and was creepily obsessed with my LO and refused to talk about anything. I was done. She chooses to live a delusion.

I made the decision to go NC once and for all, after on and off years of vvvvlc and NC with my GC brother after he betrayed my trust and went behind my back to give  information to FOO. I've been NC with him for over a year now.

None of them know where I live or have any way of contacting me.

This question comes up a lot.  For me my going NC with my father's side of the family was the culmination of a lot of horrific things (see signature for details because it's so much even to recount & I don't want to flood myself).  I refuse to be in the same room as them.  They are horrible people.

Going NC with my uNM was also death by a thousand paper cuts.  She hated me when I was born.  She thought I'd be a doll she could take off the shelf & play with before returning me to said shelf where I'd just...play quietly?  Sleep?  IDK, but from remarks she's made over the years, she was completely unprepared for me having my own wants & needs as an infant.  This turned into a constant dripping of "you're so oversensitive/dramatic/etc." whenever I expressed my own thoughts.  I was constantly picked on for my body.  Anything "different" was harped on, mostly by my father who thought he was just being funny...until I ran from the table in tears.  Then it was "I'm sorry...you're too sensitive & you need to stop it."  There were so many explosions daily that I have a blend of several different unhealthy attachment types because of the treatment I got at their hands.  Those explosions also included knock down, drag out verbal fighting, slamming of doors, & until I was about 10, at least 5 times/day of what they called "spanking" but was really a beating because it involved wooden spoons &/or their bare hands on my butt.

They re-found Jesus when I was a preteen & that involved a lot of religious abuse on top of the physical, emotional, & mental abuse that had been going on for years.  I gained a ton of weight (I think so it was a physical cushion against my home life) early on & just kept packing on the pounds.  I used books to escape & to cope.  They usually gave me sweatshirt/pant sets because those were cheap compared to nicer clothes which came separately & cost twice as much.  "Because you're fat.  You cost too much."  The religious abuse was them telling me that me not wanting to go to church at 15/16 years old was "the devil attacking" me & they forced me to go.  They finally allowed me to stay home after I told them that this particular church they liked going to kept giving me headaches from all the speakers they used for the music.

I abandoned "god" as soon as I could.  They refused to listen to me when I said I was turning away from the Christian religions they raised me in, instead choosing to believe that I remained Christian even though I'd explicitly told them I wasn't any longer.  The religious abuse ended for the most part after they couldn't find a church.  But uNM continued on her religion path; eF abandoned it for the most part.  They'd sometimes pull out the "GOD IS DISAPPOINTED IN YOU!!!" bit when it suited them, but after I scoffed & turned it around on them ("Oh?  I'd think God is disappointed in you because of XYZ!" or "I didn't know you were God's mouthpiece!") they stopped.  The emotional, mental, & verbal abuse continued.

I tried SO MANY TIMES over the years to fix my relationship with uNM.  It was like pounding against a brick wall or shouting into the void.  Things repaired temporarily & then she'd return to her old things.  Repair, repeat.  Repair, repeat.

They (Sis1 & Sis2 + uNM) loved to claim they were [uNM's maiden name] family.  They got tshirts ordered with "It's a [last name] thing; you wouldn't understand" emblazoned on it.  They use it every chance they get, which is with major family gatherings.  I don't have this shirt because I never changed my last name after our parents divorced, so it's yet another covert way of shutting me out yet again.

The last straw for me was probably the stupidest thing.  5 years ago she said she wanted to do something different for Christmas Day.  Instead of making a fancy dinner, she suggested we all choose different restaurants & order food for us to "graze" (this was the specific word she used in the language we speak) throughout the day.  So I was suspicious but, okay, I'll play along.  She gathered me & my sisters...this week 5 years ago, actually, lol...& asked us which restaurants we'd chosen to get food from & what we were going to order from there.  My turn came up.  I said I was getting a few appetizers consisting of a variety plate & sliders so we'd all have something more filling to eat.  She asked me what I was getting for a meal.  "What meal?  You said you wanted to graze.  That's the word you used, so I'm getting appetizers we all can graze from throughout the day."  She blamed me for the misunderstanding.  I told her there was no misunderstanding.  If she wanted us to order meals to share from, she should've explicitly said so.  She didn't.  The only "misunderstanding" was her own for using the wrong damn word & misleading us.  I went NC after I told her that I was tired of her doing this shit, & she needed to issue an apology.  She gave me the Silent Treat for a week then showed up at my door demanding her house key back.

A few months later I learned she was smearing me to everyone because I'd remained friends with her exhusband after they divorced after less than a year of marriage.  She decided I was sleeping with him & I was just waiting for her to get out of the picture so I could have him all to myself...with no evidence.  I threw up when I heard that bit of news.  We are still friends; I value him & he values me, but we have never once had any sort of romantic attraction toward each other.

The first time we had to be in the same room after that was about 2 years later for Sis2's gender reveal party for her first child.  uNM had already arrived.  I was one of the last few to get there.  I was nervous & kinda scared because I didn't know what to expect.  There were no words beyond "Hi" but I was told that everyone in the room could feel her absolutely outsized anger toward me.  It was frightening, & I spent the whole party making sure I was around several other people at all times so there was no opportunity for her if she wanted it.  Sis2 said she had several of her invites ask what was up with uNM because they felt it & were scared for me after the party.

My sisters & uNM wore the above tshirt I described for Sis2's baby shower.  They chose to cluster on one end of the room while I sat at the other.  They made it clear that I wasn't included in their little 3 Musketeers thing they'd had going for well over 20 years, & I'd given up.  But several people remarked on this weird behavior of theirs & the dynamic they observed during that shower & expressed sympathy to me.  A couple of these people were my friends my sister had invited because they had been so helpful to her with her first move & getting her set up with household items.  They knew of the dynamic because I'd told them, but it was their first time actually SEEING it for themselves.  They told me I'd understated it & were hurt & angry for me.

I still am NC with uNM, but I do see her once or twice a year for my nephews' birthdays or Christmas & such.  We exchange pleasantries & keep busy with the kids.  So far it's worked.  My oldest nephew (12) hasn't noticed we don't talk, so I take that as a major win.

The NC with my uNM is permanent.  She's chosen her path.  I've chosen mine.  We are never going to find our middle ground, & she will never recognize the damage she did to me & my sisters by raising us the way she & our father did.

Distance,
Reading your post about your sister made me feel a little less alone and a lot more sane, too.

As for a memoir- I did write one, in 35 years worth of journals. I started writing at 15  because I liked writing and had read it was good for expressing feelings. Over time, as things got worse with FOO, it became my confidante and often, my only friend.

Then it turned into more of a record-keeping of their offenses. Part of me thinks I write it down so that I wouldn't feel as crazy. Like "proof" that these incidents occurred. They tried the "that-never-happened-I would-never-say -something-like-that-you're-imagining things" crap all the time.

When I read the "proof" now, I applaud my younger self for having the foresight to do this. But it also makes me sad - nobody should have to write things down to prove to their family things happened. I remember being so sad and angry about it all.


Another thing was proving any accusation from them as false. They called me selfish. I made sure I was generous and humble. I made a track record of it. But they always talked about how "thoughtful" I was. Mixed messages.

Which was it, selfish and a spoiled brat (a popular one with sis - she even had a college boyfriend, with whom I was a classmate, yell at me (for what, I can't recall). He said my sister was right - I WAS a spoiled brat. 

I was so devastated by this I remember bawling in a campus bathroom. A complete stranger came in, heard me crying, hugged and comforted me for like, half an hour. It's burned in my brain. These memories stick.
Nevertheless, I went about the work of being selfless to a fault. I never asked for anything, never threw a fit when I didn't get my way. I just faded not the background.


They said I thought I was "better than them," I worked on being unflappably down-to-earth. 
They said I was a weakling, I got in shape. On it went ...for decades.

If only I had known that their accusations were pure projection. If only I had known that nothing I did to prove myself to them didn't really matter. To them, I was what they said I was. And that was that. No wonder they freaked out when nothing they said came true and I moved on with my life, far away from them.

In my last conversation with my sis, I dared observe that in our family there was an unspoken rule that we were not to challenge our parents, talk about the repercussions of their abuse (what repercussions?), we were NEVER to talk about our big family secret because it never happened, right?
This sent her into a new level of rage with which I was not familiar. I had always been a little scared of her bullying, but this was cuh-ray-zeeee. I exposed the truth and was like my words sent her into complete meltdown.
She screamed was unable to have an "adult conversation."  More projection.

You and I could probably swap sister stories for hours. I bet our experiences run creepily parallel.

Daisy,

OMG, this:

QuoteThey got tshirts ordered with "It's a [last name] thing; you wouldn't understand" emblazoned on it.  They use it every chance they get, which is with major family gatherings.

Wow, that is the epitome of  tribal behavior. Cult much?

This is in no way a judgement on Christianity, but I am so thankful my parents are not "born again" evangelicals. They were churchgoing when I was younger, but are agnostic/atheists, but told us we are free to believe what we want.

Quote from: DaisyGirl77 on December 05, 2020, 11:15:29 AM
The NC with my uNM is permanent.  She's chosen her path.  I've chosen mine.  We are never going to find our middle ground, & she will never recognize the damage she did to me & my sisters by raising us the way she & our father did.

I read your entire story too, Daisy, and I am breathless over what you went through. Also can't believe the lies spun as truths by your grandmother that your FOO was so willing to believe and tiptoe around.

When FOO is willing to believe the worst about you based on the testimony of one family member, without questioning it, (as in my case too), it really makes you realize they could be horrible people, doesn't it? You don't want to, but you have to consider it and at least get the hell out of there first even if you're not sure.

I'm glad your father apologized. Your M, on the other hand, needs to grow the *@#& up!!!!

Quote from: Liz1018 on December 06, 2020, 11:12:52 AM
You and I could probably swap sister stories for hours. I bet our experiences run creepily parallel.

The parallels I ran into here on Out of the FOG between my uNPD/uASPD sib and others' PD FOO was what really opened my eyes. It is definitely so validating to see parallels, and to realize these aren't just "quirks" from a damaged sib that must be tolerated, as is my unspoken "family rule" - it's extreme dysfunction, destruction, a disordered personality, and an intricate act to keep everyone under her power! And it seems like most deal with PD parents as the main damaging figures in their lives, but my sister takes the cake.

When you talk about proving every accusation on you false to them, I totally relate. I was told I was much too sensitive and weird as a child so I worked hard all my life compensating to be tough, independent to the extreme, having no visible needs, well-adjusted, hiding all emotions or complaints, and being not *too* weird (the one thing I've failed at, I am irrevocably eccentric and there's nothing to be done about that, who am I kidding.)

It was like I was the scapegoat, invisible child,  and the hero of the family all rolled into one (hero later in life when I became the only one with a career, business, manageable income and a marriage). Maybe you can relate. I was mocked as brutally honest and cutting, but then the next day, my sweetness and kindness were valued. I cried too much and was too sensitive, the next day I was praised as the most brave and courageous. One family member would start and then all the rest would gang up and chime in.

My M would vacillate between saying I was just too weird and odd to ever have a normal life, to then also telling me in private that she thought I would be the only kid in the family who would have a normal life, I was the only well-adjusted one. Which is it???? In college, my mother once told me in private that out of all her kids she saw me as the only one who wouldn't "land a long term relationship with anyone" on account of how "unconventional" I was. Code for weird, strange, and unlikable, I realize now, just a new word for it - also because I was androgynous and didn't try to be as feminine as my sisters (and her). This, during a talk where I bewailed not having a romantic relationship. I was hurt and devastated by her words and said that to her in the moment. She didn't apologize and kind of watched me impassively, as if it was the gospel truth she had just spoken and I just needed the time to swallow it, and then left. I remember my friend came over to my apartment afterward and cooked a meal to console me.

Fast forward years later, I'm the only one in a stable relationship of any sort, and I'm married. (M has never dated since divorce decades ago, PD sib has NEVER dated, other younger sib has been in a string of abusive relationships and flings, brother has failed marriage and no girlfriend since). Hmmmmm.

Quote from: Liz1018 on December 06, 2020, 11:12:52 AM
In my last conversation with my sis, I dared observe that in our family there was an unspoken rule that we were not to challenge our parents, talk about the repercussions of their abuse (what repercussions?), we were NEVER to talk about our big family secret because it never happened, right?
This sent her into a new level of rage with which I was not familiar. I had always been a little scared of her bullying, but this was cuh-ray-zeeee. I exposed the truth and was like my words sent her into complete meltdown.
She screamed was unable to have an "adult conversation."  More projection.

Yes, lots of similar shades here. It wasn't my last conversation with her, but one where I did confront her about her behavior, that her mask "slipped" in the same way you describe your sister doing.

She was claiming my husband attacked her in the car while we were all together, and that I "sat back and did nothing because I enjoyed it" (sounds more like the confessions of someone with ASPD am I right?) That's not what happened, I told her. He had only asked her a question about something that sounded like she had some racist/prejudiced ideas about black people and how they live, and wanted clarity, and she got super defensive. And actually, *she* had verbally attacked me in response.

When I told her that, her voice turned into this very weird, creepy, keening shriek or wail, like a child, but there was no real emotion behind it, it was almost like an act or when those birds in empty cornfields play injured when you get too close to their nests. "I want your husband to stop what he's doing. He does it to make me feel bad and he enjoys it I want him to STOP!!!!! STOP HIM! HE HURTS MEEEE"

I didn't buy it and I responded "My husband is not a dog I can ask to heel. He is a human adult. And so are you. If you have an issue with him you can talk about it between yourselves. The only person who was attacked in that car that day was me and I've dealt with it pretty well considering." I still apologized for his "behavior." (Apologized for him being a reasonable human being I guess.) I was still FOGged then.

It wasn't enough, it will never be enough. She was already alienating me and after that conversation, the alienation only deepened to punish me further for seeing through her mask, which she would deny and gaslight me for later too.

My mom is most likely a covert Narc, so there a lot of guilt ripping, manipulation, poor me syndrome and so forth. She never did a big huge thing. I simply got the point where the boundaries weren't working. I tried LC, VLC and VVVVLC. I tried grey rock. I tried laying  down boundaries. But the actual event that took it to NC wasn't that huge. My mother's brand of PD is the thousand cuts variety.

It was a plane ticket, followed by a phone call.
I told she could stay for 3-4 days. (The previous year she had fought tooth and nail to get it longer, saying she NEEDED 5-6 days, the flight was so LONG and EXPENSIVE. When I refused she tried to guilt trip me because she hadn't seen the grandchildren in a year (Her choice after an ultimatum where she wanted to take my kids anywhere anytime with no input from me AFTER she'd managed to lose one of them at an amusement park and didn't seem to care) I had told her it was 3-4 days not to exceed 3 nights.) She didn't argue. I foolishly thought we were making progress.

So she books the plane ... for 5 days. There had been no checking phone call to make sure the dates and times worked as there had been every other year, only a message from here where she sighed into the phone about calling my other phone. No message on the other phone. So I text her back, tell her I hope the tickets are refundable, there seems to be a mistake.

She calls I let know there must have been a mistake since she booked for 5 days (I was trying to let her have a way out) She dug in ,saying it was less than 96 hours. So we circled around me saying i said days not hours and her trying to legalese her way through this. Calls me manipulative when I reiterated what I told her, in writing. She buys cheap so the tickets were non-refundable, so I decide I'll just deal with it this year and be a freaking lawyer next year, so I relent.

Only she doesn't. She had some kind of script in her head that she had to get through. So she tries to guilt trip me by saying she knows so many kids that just beg their mothers to come for the holidays and just goes on about it. No names, just people (In her head I'm assuming). I have enough coping skills now to realize what shes trying to do and call her on it. I tell her "The I'm sorry I'm a bad daughter." She called me immature. Then she starts cycling though all the things she thinks I think. That I don't want her to come, that I don't love her, that I want her dead. My assumption is that she wanted me to grovel and tell her how much I lover her and want her to come and  so on, but I decided not to get sucked in and just let her know I wanted her to come 'on the days I said were okay' .  It goes into this circular argument where I parrying her emotions with facts. Then my daughter comes back home, so I say ok she's home gotta go bye, real quick, because I finally realize that I don't want anyone talking to me like that in front of my kids. My mom's last words were "you had me on speaker!"

After that I realized I didn't want to have to play lawyer to get my mother to be a decent human being. She is in her seventies. If she didn't know by now, It was not my job to teach her. I realized that when I was able to just stop reacting, she'd move to one of my kids. I realized that life was too short to spend time with someone you didn't trust to be alone with your kids. It was also the first time for her escalating a few things. Before she'd call and confirm waiting for an actual yes (usually during a hectic time when I didn't have my calendar, but she'd still call), Growing up she was always firm on no name calling, yet she now thought it okay to call me names. She just had to find a way around my rules proving to me she didn't give a good gosh darn about me, my needs, or my desires as her host. I made a pro and con list of how to handle it and I went NC after her visit (didn't want an incident of her showing up at the door like she had the right to be there since the ticket was paid for.)

I'm about a year in now and I don't think there is anything she can say to me that would make me trust her again. The only possible way I see her would be to act as a meat shield if my kids have an interest in meeting her when they are adults and have solid mechanisms in place to battle the narc behavior.

I never went entirely NC with my late father-in-law, but here's what resulted in my decision to go VLC (no in-person visits for almost the final 10 years of his life).

FIL was often negative but seemed to reserve a special "meannness" for me. The last time I saw him was Thanksgiving 2009. His wife, my ex-husband's mom, was sliding into Alzheimer's disease. Our dog had just had surgery, to amputate one of her toes. She was with us. I was trying hard to stay calm and to be kind and respectful to MIL and FIL. I helped with the meal prep but tried to include MIL in safe ways. At some point, FIL made a comment about shooting the dog. When we were eating, I did something (I don't know what), and FIL banged down the gravy container and said something rude to me. I got very upset immediately but didn't make a huge ruckus. My husband made no attempt to protect me from his father's bad behavior. On the way home or after we were home, I talked to my husband about the situation, and he kind of acknowledged what had happened but not very much. I wrote FIL a letter. He didn't respond to me but talked to my husband and basically denied saying the things he had said at Thanksgiving. I decided I didn't need the stress of seeing FIL again.

Thank you for your valuable responses to my thread. You have NO IDEA how valuable your stories are. I have decided to go No Contact (for good) and the best thing about it is that I do not feel any guilt or shame. Some people here treated NC as a natural consequence of the PDs' abuses and neglect. It is actually normal for us, adult children of PDs to separate from such individuals. So, if NC is a natural consequence of repeated abuse over the years, why would guilt and shame even come up? Yesterday I had this realization after hearing how terribly my parents talk about me and other people in their lives (basically, everyone they interact with are awful people who are out to get them).

I'll read this thread again to cement my NC decision.

:-* :-* :-*

Good luck, Stardust.

Remember your goal, here. You aren't trying to teach anyone a lesson, or improve them. You aren't attempting to seek redress of grievances. Your goal is to increase the peace in your life, and to define a space in which you can thrive, free from threat, intimidation, or any FOG. And you have come to believe that they actively battle against those goals.

Always proceed in the manner that brings you peace.

Be good. Be strong.

Quote from: Stardust1982 on December 07, 2020, 05:00:41 AM
Thank you for your valuable responses to my thread. You have NO IDEA how valuable your stories are. I have decided to go No Contact (for good) and the best thing about it is that I do not feel any guilt or shame. Some people here treated NC as a natural consequence of the PDs' abuses and neglect. It is actually normal for us, adult children of PDs to separate from such individuals. So, if NC is a natural consequence of repeated abuse over the years, why would guilt and shame even come up? Yesterday I had this realization after hearing how terribly my parents talk about me and other people in their lives (basically, everyone they interact with are awful people who are out to get them).

I'll read this thread again to cement my NC decision.

:-* :-* :-*

Yay Stardust!!!!  :applause: :applause: :applause:

I totally second Starboard below, too. It's control over your life, finally, is what it's all about, so you can have peace and heal. Expecting, hoping, or maneuvering for FOO to change is the codependent approach. I think my NC choice could possibly bring about difficult but healing changes to some of my FOO but I can't hold my breath.

And you're right: guilt and shame shouldn't come up, but just be forewarned, it probably will. But think of it as a withdrawal symptom or a craving for what you once had that you now realize is no longer good for you. They will get lesser. You will probably have cravings (guilt/shame). But if you work through them to the other side, and never forget that NC is a natural consequence of such behavior, you'll start seeing changes in yourself that you never thought possible before.

@Starboard Song, @DistanceNotDefense you're both right. NC should be done for own's peace of mind. I need to remember this.

And I understand that the withdrawal symptoms would be bad in the beginning, but I am willing to go through that. It's an addiction after all-our bond to PD parents.

Have a peaceful week, guys :bighug: :bighug:

Have a peaceful week, guys!

I am so sorry that we all have dealt with these experiences.  What I have found as I read these, is that I end up telling myself "of course they should be NC" as I read others' explanations of their situation, but still I question if I have made the right decision.  I've been NC for over a year.  I haven't seen my parents for 3 Christmases if you include this one and I still wonder if I've made the right decision.  It's amazing how they have trained us to think these things are normal.  Hugs  :bighug: to all of you.  And big thanks to all of you as well.  This board has changed my life and continues to remind me that we didn't deserve this abuse.   

Starboard.
Such wise words about goals.

QuoteRemember your goal, here. You aren't trying to teach anyone a lesson, or improve them. You aren't attempting to seek redress of grievances. Your goal is to increase the peace in your life, and to define a space in which you can thrive, free from threat, intimidation, or any FOG. And you have come to believe that they actively battle against those goals.

Always proceed in the manner that brings you peace.

This should be posted in the front page of the NCpages. It's very eye opening & pin-pointedly accurate.

Distance,

Excellent comparison to addiction. I got sober about a year before I went NC. Each time for health reasons, and no questioning my decision, once made. I was 100% sure of my new path, and my life is 1000x better now.

After my sister had her last hissy fit, I began to research and learned about BPD. This checked all of the boxes, if undiagnosed. I had always just thought she was a self-absorbed bully. But her  reactions just got weirder over time - more extreme.

Unfortunately for me, she wasn’t the only unstable one. Both parents (extremely covert Nmom, dad somewhere between NPD, BPD and worse (pedophilia), oldest brother manic depressive-not sure if his diagnosis was accurate) and probably has PTSD, other brother - just angry, detached - possible narc.

The worst part is we all believed we had the perfect family, that we were “close.” My parents were well-liked and respected in the community. At some point, though, you grow up , start to think for yourself and realize something doesn’t add up.

Wow, the vacillation part is so spot on. I was told that I was simultaneously:

- Wise beyond my years/didn’t know anything (one of my mom and sister’s favorites was “when did you get so wise?” They acted so surprised when I said something they seemed wise.

- Weirdo (a “damn nut” was my dad’s line) . I am proudly weird, as is DH. Thankfully we found one another. But to the world, we are pretty normal.
My sister never understood me. She thought I was super-weird. The next day I was “trying too hard to fit in (I was also aware to never be too weird).

QuoteIt was like I was the scapegoat, invisible child,  and the hero of the family all rolled into one (hero later in life when I became the only one with a career, business, manageable income and a marriage). Maybe you can relate. I was mocked as brutally honest and cutting, but then the next day, my sweetness and kindness were valued. I cried too much and was too sensitive, the next day I was praised as the most brave and courageous. One family member would start and then all the rest would gang up and chime in.

This is SO my situation! I am the only one with a career (that I love), a business, and a lasting marriage (22 years and counting!). 4 divorces between 2 brothers, sister is 51 and never married, never in a long-term relationship. Mom wouldn’t allow it, after all - no “outsiders” were truly welcome in our family. They all got chilly receptions. I felt especially sorry for my sisters-in-law. Mom and sis would be cordial to their faces, and then talk trash about them after they left.

Out of 4 kids, only I have a “normal” life. The other 3 were notorious quitters at just about everything they attempted. Not me. I doubled down on seeing things through to the end, working through hard stuff, and most of all, keeping my word.

QuoteCode for weird, strange, and unlikable, I realize now, just a new word for it - also because I was androgynous and didn't try to be as feminine as my sisters (and her).

Oh, how I hated this one. I had many demeaning comments thrown around about how I needed to be more feminine - especially the way I dressed. Like I was a doll they could dress up. I wore weird black platform shoes. They told me I should be wearing ballet flats & “flattering” outfits. They picked on my hair, saying I needed to grow it out and get highlights and a perm. When I would visit, was fully inspected as soon as I walked in the door. Haircut, makeup (or lack thereof), type and fit of clothing, style of shoes, jewelry (or lack thereof). I became incredibly self-conscious about my looks. I felt I had to look perfect.

I was also told I was never going to be able to take care of myself. After all, I didn’t even know how to cook! (I told my mom when I was 14 that I had no interest in cooking and that I was going to marry someone who cooks, which I did - he is a superb cook). They all seemed so shocked when I turned out to be quite independent and competent at taking care of myself.

That’s awful about your husband. They love scapegoating our spouses. Of course, with my DH, they knew they would lose any fight they started. He is way smarter, can control himself and his temper around unstable people, sees right through them, and has nothing to lose. He’s a lawyer, too, and knows how to win an argument.

I know that shriek,too. Just a total rage vomit on us for just saying what needs to be said. What would be clear to a normal person, well... it just doesn’t work that way with them.

Poison Ivy - “the gravy incident” - I couldn’t help picturing this temper tantrum in my head and thinking - why are they all such babies? Why do they have to cause a scene, no matter how embarrassing to us or themselves?

Fortuna, I read your post and though your mom  showcases what, to normal people, would be insane, extreme behavior, it  is just another day with PDs.
My FOO always invited themselves to stay with me, with no regard to my work schedule. I was supposed to stop everything and entertain them for 3 days (my limit). And Nmom always wanted us to visit for at least 5 days. Like, spend my vacation time with them and 2!days traveling. I am self-employed. I don’t make money when I don’t work. On top of traveling expenses it was a lot. Just once a year for 20 plus years through lots of fog . The vacations I could have taken in place of those awful visits!!

I've been NC with my entire FOO for nearly 3 years. The relationship between me and my UBPD mother & EF came to a head when my mother and I had a terrible fight that escalated when I tried to JADE. (FYI - it doesn't work.) She ended up striking me on the face.

Around the same time, EF kept telling me how he regretted giving my husband his blessing to marry me - 15 years ago at the time! Mind you, this was while my husband and I were experiencing a terrible chapter in our marriage and my father's remarks did nothing but pour gasoline over the fire. (It led to me lashing out at DH.) Through marriage counseling I realized my father should never have said that. Rather, he should have voiced his concerns when DH asked for his blessing. Speak now or forever hold your peace, right?

When I let EF know that what he said harmed my marriage and that he owed DH an apology, he turned around and blamed everything on me. He then said I owed EF an apology! I was hurt but not surprised. After all, this scapegoating has happened all my life. It's the price I've had to pay if I expect to be part of the tribe: take the entire blame or be banished. This time, I did the banishing.

In a brief, polite email, I told my parents I needed time to heal from childhood traumas and was taking as much time as I needed. EF responded by CC'ing all my siblings, saying I've been exhausting and that I "shouldn't bother coming back unless I apologize".

Since then, my parents have gone to our priest who married us and demanded he intervene. (Our priest didn't.) My father also exercised his influence over my 90 year-old grandmother to the point where she wrote me a letter saying she could no longer have a relationship with me unless I came crawling back to my parents. I wrote her a polite letter back saying no thank you.

Since then, DH and I have been blessed when a second child. Our marriage is stronger than ever and I am so grateful to have gotten Out of the FOG.

:)

Quote from: Liz1018 on December 06, 2020, 11:31:33 AM
Daisy,

OMG, this:

QuoteThey got tshirts ordered with "It's a [last name] thing; you wouldn't understand" emblazoned on it.  They use it every chance they get, which is with major family gatherings.

Wow, that is the epitome of  tribal behavior. Cult much?

This is in no way a judgement on Christianity, but I am so thankful my parents are not "born again" evangelicals. They were churchgoing when I was younger, but are agnostic/atheists, but told us we are free to believe what we want.

Lol, yeah.  They do have that kind of mindset.  I briefly considered changing my last name to something completely different after their divorce was finalized since the drama was just insane.  I haven't...for personal reasons.

You're lucky in that sense.  We did attend church when I was quite small & I have some fond memories of sitting in the pew watching the organist play. :)  It fizzled out when I was about 7ish due to a bunch of reasons.  If they'd let things be, I probably wouldn't have such an issue with "God".

Quote from: DistanceNotDefense on December 06, 2020, 03:10:34 PM

Quote from: DaisyGirl77 on December 05, 2020, 11:15:29 AM
The NC with my uNM is permanent.  She's chosen her path.  I've chosen mine.  We are never going to find our middle ground, & she will never recognize the damage she did to me & my sisters by raising us the way she & our father did.

I read your entire story too, Daisy, and I am breathless over what you went through. Also can't believe the lies spun as truths by your grandmother that your FOO was so willing to believe and tiptoe around.

When FOO is willing to believe the worst about you based on the testimony of one family member, without questioning it, (as in my case too), it really makes you realize they could be horrible people, doesn't it? You don't want to, but you have to consider it and at least get the hell out of there first even if you're not sure.

I'm glad your father apologized. Your M, on the other hand, needs to grow the *@#& up!!!!

Lol.  Thanks, Distance.  Yes, she (uNM) does.  One of the things I forgot to mention in my OP was that when my parents' marriage was on the rocks, before the divorce papers were filed, our family dog became extremely ill on a Friday.  She'd been declining for quite a while & this was "the sign" we pet owners just know. :(  This dog was eF's dream dog.  He picked her out of the litter.  Even though she was the family dog, she was primarily eF's dog.  I called eF to let him know it was an emergency re: the dog, & please come home.  He didn't answer.  uNM called his job; his job expressed surprise & said he'd taken the day off.  Long story short, he had taken a three day weekend to go riding with his biker group & never told us.  In revenge, uNM gathered my sisters & I at the kitchen table & announced she'd called the vet & scheduled the PTS appointment for the day after.

I.  Went.  VOLCANIC.  I told her that this wasn't her call; this was eF's dog as much as she was ours, that I didn't care what was going on with them, that [dog's name] was not something to play around with, nor is her life.  Playing with lives isn't a joke & isn't something you can take back with a "Tee hee, just kidding!" (My sisters were completely silent the whole during our showdown.)  In return, she made me call the vet to cancel the appointment, & told me I was going to be solely responsible for helping her out to pee/poo & making her comfortable until eF returned. 

Which he did...& he was promptly relegated to the floor next to where we'd set up the dog.  She was put down a couple days later.  He moved out a few months after that.

I lost my respect for uNM after that.  I have lots more stories, but that'll take up a whole new thread & I don't want to hijack. ;)

After years of scapegoating me because I refuse to sweep everything under the rug and continue to be obliviously compliant to toxic behavior, my uNPD father shoved (aggressively) my husband and my teen at a family function (unprovoked). Quite literally, he did this behind my back. He graduated from targeting me to targeting the people I love. Later he would say that all he did was put his arm around them. Family accuses me of "overreacting."

Stole my house, and tried to buy my kids away from me with my inheritance. A million a piece, but my kids turned them down flat.

The absolute worst thing which I wasn't prepared to deal with anymore was the increasing attempts to manipulate and distort my character to other people. My father was being flat out cruel before no contact and yet was reaching out to random people online (specifically Facebook, which he had shunned until he realised it could serve this purpose) playing the confused victim card and claiming I was the one mistreating him. Rather than have a sensible conversation with me to try to understand he instead chose to play silly mind games and try to humiliate me. I wanted to finally learn assertiveness and boundaries at the age of 27 when this was happening in order to improve my relationships with emotionally healthy people, however I quickly learned that my father was entirely resentful of this, wanted me to remain meek and mild and would continue to do everything in his power to try to damage my self-esteem. Frankly, he is not a nice person.

Many paper cuts, always sarcasm/complaining to get her message across....Attention.

Emotional blackmail to control.

Not being validated, ignorned emotionally from childhood to nc  (twice).  On the same team as Raging NF, not defending us.   Frivolous M.   Joy was the only emotion allowed or being numb.

Slapped me when I was deeply depressed from my breakup of my first love at 21.   Because I told her that she didn't understand.  That, I never forgot!

New Year's eve 10 yrs ago, walked out like an immature child would (tantrum) a true trait of a Pd.  I was 60 then. She came back with family friend  (surrogate dd) who begged her then she raged at me saying «are you happy»?  I went nc for three years.


Her revenge after first nc.  She gave a piece of jewelry that she had promised to me, gave it to my gc sister's  dd. What I did not accept was not the gesture itself, I don't give a F**** but  that she had to tell me just to hurt me!   CRUEL.
She said «I hope you don't mind, you weren't talking to me anyhow»  Big sigh.  I would have found out at her death but no.   

Then emotional blackmail in a low voice, in her maternal language, again in the waiting room of a doctor's office.

Those were all signs  of a M who could not love me, that I could no longer trust.  A M who expected me to make her happy.   

No exception from your stories, they all have the same common denominator.

And let's not forget, all this while trying to shame and guilt us.

May your holidays be in Peace. :)

Death by a thousand paper cuts.

  I almost envy those of you who can point to really overt, indisputably horrendous behavior.  With me it was growing up in an emotional vacuum, and being targeted/shunned for being too weird and "sensitive".  There is a tremendous amount of hidden pain in my FOO. I was always some level of melancholy or depressed, felt hideous and detestable, and had to hide it from family lest I be scorned or scolded for it.  ("What's wrong with you?  Look at us ... we're happy!").  The only "closeness" I experienced was with my father, who revelled in my adoration but was never there for me in any real way (and in his later years became outright undermining and nasty).  The attention he gave me, of course I realize now was a huge thorn in my mother's eye, who got nothing from him emotionally.  My brothers ditto.  I spent the majority of my life utterly convinced I was the defective one.  Even though I have excelled in my field, am loved by many, lived an interesting life, and always been conscientious and circumspect about life decisions.  I live far away from FOO, but visited regularly and made an effort to keep in good contact. 

Internally I did many years of work in and out of therapy to heal from my self loathing.  Keeping that well hidden from FOO.  I became healthier, happier and made progressively healthier life choices.  I figured "a rising tide lifts all ships", and assumed my family relations would improve commensurately.   Instead, things got weirder and weirder.  Darker and darker.  Their calm, covert and overt contemptuous behavior toward me was so incredibly hurtful and baffling.  I am almost embarrassed to admit how much of my life energy and vitality I wasted sitting in my house with my head reeling, trying to make sense of their behavior and my all-consuming guilt and panic.  I went to see yet another therapist who told me I had trauma.  I brushed that away, and still thought I could somehow sort this out and make sense of it.  I see now, she was %100 money.   All the depression and self hatred I thought were my flaws ... that's not truly me.  That was grief and trying to make some kind of sense of how I had always been treated.

I am now VVVLC.  Inches away from NC.  I got married a few years ago, and saw very quickly that I had to cut ties to stay sane and bond with my husband.  It's a big burden to bear, that I can't explain my choice to anyone except those select few who have had similar experiences.  I learned the hard way that trying to explain makes me look excessively touchy and crazy - that goes for most of my friends and all my extended family.  It sucks.  I'm glad for places like here where I can unburden myself.

The last thing wasn't even the worst thing, like many of you. It was the thing that proved to me what I suspected: They did not and could not love me and were utterly selfish.

With FOO, it was after a year of going through a pregnancy and difficult postpartum, living nearer to them "for the support" and receiving absolutely none. After a particularly heinous visit from my father to "help" me, my mother told me they would not come to our house on Christmas Day because they were so hungry after leaving my house last year they had no choice but to eat Christmas dinner at a gas station. I was newly pregnant and nauseated and made them a full buffet anyway, but it wasn't a roast and potatoes so it didn't count. I called back after a couple of days and said that really hurt and I needed some time out from them. M said she never said that. I didn't accept that. That brought on a firestorm of attempts to get me back in line. Letters, cards, phone calls, gifts. My F went so far as to try to set me up to look like a child abuser and see my kids behind my back without me present. NC is permanent.

My mom suffers from depression and low self-esteem. I knew this from even a young age. I dealt with it by becoming extremely protective of her. What I didn't know was that she also most likely suffers from bpd and narcissism, and its affect on me. I was thoroughly enmeshed. I was literally told what I liked, what I didn't, how I felt and what I thought. My goal; under no circumstances should I ever hurt her feelings. Every decision came with my mom's voice in my head, either approving, or, God forbid, not. It reached a point early on where she didn't have to say anything. I just knew. (WWMD?!?)

The need to be perfect, so that she wouldn't have to suffer by "worrying" about me, was a never-ending goal. It was a constant battle to "prove" my "loyalty," and I sometimes "fell short." I was anorexic from teen to well into adulthood. It was, among other things, self punishment. A way to redeem myself for all my "mistakes" and "flaws." Starving myself even felt soothing. I thought I deserved it.

And if I didn't fall short somehow, frequently, I was told I'd done something "too well." Also a failure.

About 8 or 9 years ago, the perfect storm occurred. My FOO went through several tragedies. I felt responsible—and was held responsible—for fixing everything and making everyone feel better. Obviously, not possible. I saw a therapist.

Originally, I sought therapy to help with my self-confidence. I thought it would help me cope better with the constant criticism. The first time I mentioned my mom without a compliment, I absolutely panicked over my slip up. I thought I'd be sick then and there in the therapist's office. The guilt was overwhelming.

Everything went through my mom. I'd never really learned to deal directly with people. I realized this was also something I wanted and needed to be able to do. It was a strange dynamic; mom insisted on hearing about every grievance or slight I'd experienced, seemingly taking some sort of bizarre comfort when my other relationships were in turmoil, while simultaneously being stressed out about it. Getting things off my chest felt good in the moment, but helped nothing in the long run. I made a conscious choice to stop sharing so much. Still in the FOG, I continued to email her almost every day, but intentionally kept it light. I don't know for sure, but I believe this distancing, though subtle, had something to do with the year or so of absolute rage that came soon after...

At the time, I distinctly remember thinking how bizarre it was, like someone hitting themself over the head, again and again with a bat, then turning to me and demanding I stop. It was nonsensical. I had no idea what to do. There was nothing I could fix. I hadn't done anything.

I then learned that my parents had been telling people (including DH) I was "mental." My mom had written at least one letter with the sole purpose to destroy an important relationship. I don't how long it had been going on, but there are situations that lead me to believe it was pre-rage. At first, it was only my mom. My dad seemed unaware. He confronted me one Christmas morning, accusing me of ruining everything. I hadn't yet called to tell them when we'd be over that morning.

I thought if he knew how she'd been treating me, he'd understand what had been going on over the past year. I tried to tell him. It made zero difference. Instead, he acknowledged my mom's actions, and made it very clear it was up to me, not her, to "fix it all." I started screaming at him to get out of my house. He wouldn't. I kept screaming. I think subconsciously, I thought he'd "hear" me if I were louder. It was awful. I was awful. The only positive thing to come from it, is that based on what I've heard from family, the memory of my "craziness" that day is what has kept he and my mom from dropping in to "talk."

When he finally left, I calmed down enough to email an apology, as always, taking complete responsibility. I even told him I knew he was only trying to help. But, at that point, I knew just how little I mattered. Yes, they "needed" me, but as an individual, I was nothing to them. Realizing I would never truly be heard by them left me with nothing more to give.

The part I still don't understand, was that, after a lifetime of dreading the day they were both gone, and constantly trying to "prove" how much they meant to me, I feel nothing towards them. Occasionally, I get angry or sad. But...nothing positive. I've even tried meditating to spark some sort of positive feeling towards them, but, there's just nothing there.

NC was self-preservation. And now, I've taken the red pill; I can't go back.

Realizing I would never truly be heard by them left me with nothing more to give.

Ziggy, this one hit home and nearly brought me to tears.  I feel this with my family. Being the youngest and very displaced in age from the next youngest, I feel very unheard.  I mean, they hear me, say they get it, but invalidate me anyway because I'm not suppose to feel this way about my uNPDm.  Because I won't be a boat-steadier  Right now, my relationship with uNPDm (who has finally been diagnosed with dementia not caused by strokes) is nonexistent, and it's business-only with four of the six siblings.

Mother sent a "anonymous" letter to my house claiming to be from concerned neighbors.  Claim was that our house is dirty and kids are dirty and it is impacting their relationships. 

Quote from: Idnaoniw on January 13, 2021, 04:25:02 PM
Mother sent a "anonymous" letter to my house claiming to be from concerned neighbors.  Claim was that our house is dirty and kids are dirty and it is impacting their relationships.

Wow.

Just wow.

Seven,
Your experiences and needs are absolutely valid. You have a right to take care of yourself.

You may have been conditioned to believe otherwise. It's not fair to you. Your voice counts. You are worthy of respect, regardless of how much younger, etc., you are.

:hug:

I care. I respect you. I'm sorry you are suffering, and that your siblings aren't offering support to you.

Ziggy52, that was very moving reading your story and so much of it reminds me of my own. It didn't begin to really come together for me about the level of dysfunction and how low they would go until there was that "perfect storm" in my FOO... and then I just knew that my family was not like other families.

What you said about yelling at your father, I really think was your soul saving you. That you had, had it. I had something similar with my mother when I was a child and I know deep down inside it was my survival instinct screaming to save myself.

I am in my fifties now and I feel nothing toward my parents. It's like all the love I had slowly dried up, one incident at a time.

I could relate a lot to what you wrote. Thank you for sharing.

I was sexually/mentally abused by my GC brother beginning at age 7 and going until age 15...although the mental abuse continued well into adulthood.  At age 43, my mother told a friend of mine that I was basically a slut and asked for what happened to me.  That was the line and I knew I could not look at her nor hear her voice again.  I had talked to her a week prior to the trusted friend telling me that...and that was the last time.  The best thing I ever did was cut her out of my life.  I have grown tremendously since then!!!

Like a lot of other folks here, it was more than just one singular thing with going NC...I've now gone NC with both parents.

BD - Emotionally abusive to BM and I during my childhood. Lots of hatred, name calling, seeing BM getting the brunt of the emotional and physical abuse (no sexual), and all around nastiness. He's a pathological liar with CPTSD from his own childhood trauma, so its settled as anger and hatred throughout every facet of his entire life and he takes it out on everyone (co-workers, family, etc). BD is textbook narc but is uNPD and loves to use DARVO on those closest to him...lots of HAP in my childhood from him. NC came easy with him about 7-8 years ago at this point, thanks to my DH - once I told him all the crap I went through as a child and adult, it was relatively easy to shut the door and not look back. The only times I broke NC, was once my BM guilt tripped me into seeing him about 5 years ago when he was in town by showing up at my apartment and not leaving until I saw him. I was a total emotional mess and wreck seeing him outside my residence. DH (BF at the time) told me that he had never seen me in such a way before. It was not an enjoyable time, to say the least. That was the last time I physically saw my BD. Then, early last year in 2020, my BM went against my wishes and gave BD my phone number without my knowledge (after she KNEW that I had NC with him for years and happily wanted to keep it that way) and used the excuse of "I gave it to him just an emergency" - well after one night of telling BM some of the horrible lies that I would hear BD tell my family over the phone (BD loved to tell horrible wretched lies and call me horrendous names to my family), she told BD what I said and he called me out of the blue. I didn't know it was him since I didn't have his phone number saved and it was a complete and total shock to hear his voice over the phone (not to mention being blind-sided out of the blue), and although it was a short maybe 7 min call, it was everything I needed to know that NC was the right choice. I sobbed after we hung up and was thrown into a pretty deep depression for a few weeks after that - nothing like being "face-to-face" with your abuser again, all without your consent. Been NC every day since and will until the day he passes. It also helps that I live 3,500 miles away from him!

BM - For a long time, I always thought that BD was worse than BM because he was so outwardly nasty, hateful, and abusive. But as I've gotten older, and thanks to my DH, I've come to realize that my BM is just as bad, but in a different way. BM is uBPD and uDPD and has CPTSD from childhood and adulthood. Being a female only child, she and I were very close when I was younger and were more 'best friends' than BM and daughter - but that's another thing entirely. BM loved to use manipulation, guilt tripping, and shame if things didn't go the way she wanted them to...which is and was often. There were many phone calls, voicemails, texts, and calls from teenage years to now (mid 30s) where she felt the need to say horribly mean and manipulative things because she was "just saying". Always telling me whacked out things when I was a teenager like "just get dressed up and go down to the rich golf course to meet a wealthy husband" or to "become a masseuse at a yacht club to meet a rich old man". She likes to guilt me for being NC with BD and should "apologize to him since he's old and dying and a different man now". She still talks to BD daily even though they live 1,200 mi apart and she left him for being abusive in the first place. Then there is a huge lack of disrespect for my own personal beliefs across the board, loves to bring up the past and dwell on mistakes that happened decades ago as if it just happened yesterday, loves to use the "well I'm your mother so you have to do/listen to x, y, z that I say because it's my way or the highway" and her favorite phrase of "I brought you in this world and I can take you out of it". Everything is about her and there is zero interest in my own life. Or if something goes well in my life, she loves to give all the credit to my DH and zero acknowledgement to me; I get viewed as a child who can't do anything for herself even though that is the opposite of the truth. I had been stuck in the mindset a few years ago (when I first recognized that she was going downhill pretty severely after living on her own for the first time in her life after 55+ years) that I just had to put up with her in order to have even a glimpse of the relationship that we had when I was younger (the "happier" times) because maybe she would change and things would look up for us. But the past 4 years have been totally awful dealing with her, to the point where I went to LC, and it became the lowest point of our relationship - this past 2020 year especially. BM has become totally engrossed in hatred and conspiracy theory, to the point that she cannot even think or talk about anything else. I had asked her time and time again to respect me and my beliefs, and to not talk about those things as it greatly upsets me, but yet she still goes on and on about those same things every single time we talk. I try to change the subject to something light hearted or just not even acknowledge those things she's saying, but she then gets angry and upset and will call me names. The low point which drove me to NC with her (which actually just happened 2 days for me) was that she was flipping out that her brother and SIL were pointing out the nastiness and hypocrisy in her life and I just happened agreed with them. I figured that I was sick of biting my tongue, sick of hearing the crap she loves to spew, and wanted her to know that I felt the same way that her brother and SIL did. That sent her down a spiral of telling me to go to hell, she never wants to see me again, guilting me right and left, putting words in my mouth that I never said, calling me names, denouncing me as her daughter, using the "I'm going to end my life if you cut off communication with me", that "she's sick of being hurt by me", and then finally telling me that I was the cause of our declining relationship. After years of biting my tongue just to not upset her and out of a sense of obligation, offering sound advice to help get her life on track when she would ask for it, sending gifts and cards on every holiday and birthday, always trying to make an effort, helping her financially, playing therapist, and always wanting a better life for her...but it was suddenly all my fault. That, right there, was the moment I knew that it wasn't worth it anymore. My DH read all of the horrible text messages and decided to call her the next day to try and straighten things out (which he has never done in the past 5 years of us being married)...but it did absolutely nothing. She claimed to "never have talked about" any of the things I asked her to stop talking about on the daily, and told my DH that she never once talked about those things since 2016 because she "learned a lesson". Yea...sure...okay. She decided to half-heartedly apologize yesterday through text message but ended it with demanding an apology from me as well because "I'm the one that should be apologizing to her and not the other way around"...suffice to say, she won't be getting that apology. The only thing she did get from me was getting her phone number blocked and finally giving me the strength to go NC. I had debated NC with her for the past few years, but this was the straw that broke this camel's back. I've been sad and crying the past few days since all this happened, but I know that that NC had to happen for my own peace of mind, well-being, and happiness. I'm not sad over the fact that we won't be talking anymore, I'm sad over the fact that I've had to endure so much emotional and mental turmoil for so long. I've accepted the NC and there is a great wave of relief that has washed over me today. There is a tiny part of me that feels bad and guilty for doing it (that good ol' sense of obligation sneaking back up), but at the end of the day, I just can't handle the toxicity anymore. It's not worth it by any means.

FindingHappinessAgain,

I'm so so so relieved and happy that you're making that choice. Reading your story makes me so sad bc it is so much like my uNPD mother. I spent so many years absorbing her inability to self-regulate and self-soothe. It was not good for me at all. I don't think I've really dealt with it and it might be the next step in my healing.

Please stay strong and keep the avenues of communication closed to your mother. She is not going to change and the only thing to do is to change the situation. You will begin to heal. And I really believe it is very difficult to heal if one remains in relationship with the abuser. She can  no longer take her misery out on you. It's so good that you are taking control of your peace of mind and health.

many things, accumulating over time. and each new boundary i put in place got met with more and more overstepping of other boundaries, more cruelty and more abuse. but one of the final straws that sticks in my mind...

new years eve. hadnt seen parents for months. nobody doing anything. so i offered to meet outdoors and surprised them by bringing some wine and a new years tradition i read about as gesture of goodwill.

from the start-my dad refused to leave the car, moaning it was a bit cold. so obviously he was really desperate to see me! (his excuse for being so angry at me for not seeing him more often.

my 'mother'-I mentioned it was difficult for me as a kid, because i felt alone, and couldnt understand why she often seemed distant to me back then... her reply? 'You know I was terrified you'd turn out to be a gay....'

me-'... ...!' ...'you mean you were distant because you assumed it would mean i became gay?'

her-'no. i just thought i'd tell you i always worried there was something wrong with you and you'd turn out gay'(!)

me-'.....'

the walk back was in near silence. after one small glass of wine she was literally stumbling over the pavement.  i looked at her and just saw a monster. a stumbling wreck of a 'thing'. not a 'mother'.

in retrospect, I wonder if she was on more medication (she usually denied it but i often found out she was) and it had mixed with the drink causing the drunken stumbling. but that comment she made? she hadnt had one sip of wine at that point. not one. new years eve. a warm gesture from me. me opening up to her. and that was her response.

same as it ever was.

I had to add this as I am still having «ah ha» moments in my healing journey. 

I now personally think that the worst thing for my or any parent can do to their child is to have them doubt/question themselves, «gaslight».  It is so inhuman, vicious.

Many times my NM would say to me «well, it's you Blacksheep!», «you're the only one who doesn't like it/that Blacksheep!».  She made sure to always name me. 

It is Horrendous.  :evil2:

Blacksheep that is so true.  Being left with a feeling that something is weird or off about me is devastating.  At times I have said to my DH that I must be at fault for something as even my own family doesn't like me. 

To unsteady a persons self worth and self esteem, to make them doubt themselves it really is horrible.

Blacksheep and Hilltop ... yes.  I am many decades old, and still in the habit of reflexively scanning myself for what it is about me that's "wrong".  It's like a nut I can't crack - a riddle I can't solve.  But, by golly I'll figure it out!  It takes some real conscious effort to not do that.

Quote from: Amedee on February 10, 2021, 10:00:07 AM
Blacksheep and Hilltop ... yes.  I am many decades old, and still in the habit of reflexively scanning myself for what it is about me that's "wrong".  It's like a nut I can't crack - a riddle I can't solve. But, by golly I'll figure it out!  It takes some real conscious effort to not do that.

Yes, you will figure it out!   Just start thinking of the way your parents labled you, never enough.

That is not who you are, that is how they built you to be, under their needs.

I have been through 30 years of intermittent T when needed, mostly for my toxic male relationships.

I can tell you that it is only since the years of NF death and NM taking over, bringing me to ptsd . was where the real  work started.  Nc in 2017. I went to the deep of my upbringing understanding that I   mostlly functionned under Fear, Obligation & Guilt, not what I wanted as a relationship with FOO of course.

This brought on  self-awarness of my habits in which old beliefs were tied to, not much self-worth and love for myself.  I've been living a life always filled with drama, in the negative.

I am still discovering the real me by letting go those past beliefs and giving me, myself & I self-care and attention I so much deserved. 

It is not an easy task so I understand you.  I now look to the postive parts of my personality and apply them.  ;)

Threatened to leave, when I was a child and she was mad at me. Traumatizing for any child but my father had left when I was 5 and I never saw him again, so my Fear of Abandonment was on hyper-drive.
Accused me of being a "selfish bitch" when I set non-enmeshment boundaries.
Told me I was responsible for destroying every one of her relationships with her family.
When my step-father was immobilized with Parkinson's Disease, and she was mad at me, she made him call me for help getting up, after he had fallen.  He was face-planted on the floor, in his own excrement, and she handed him the phone, because she was not speaking to me.  When my husband went to help my step-dad get up, and shower him, my mother screamed at my husband the entire time, verbally abusing him.
There are so many more.  It is truly death by 100,000 cuts.  When I finally went NC for good, there was no scene, no final straw, just a very sad realization there was no end in sight, and no way for me to live in the horror of it anymore.

Yes totally death by 1000 cuts. Here's some of the worst cuts
* Stole my father's inheritance from me at age 19 saying she just needed it for 5 years and would give it back. Never did. Gave big sums to my older sibling and 2 of my 3 younger siblings but left me out. When I finally at age 32 demanded to know when she would give me my money, she screamed that I was a money grubbing bitch and there was nothing left to give me.
* When I told her my grandfather was a pedophile (I know she already knew this as elder sister told her when she was 16) all she said was 'So I'm to blame for that too am I?.
*Triangulated all siblings over and over destroying all relationships and never cared at all.
* Lost all of her money by her mid-70's and started hitting on me to financially help; went bankrupt; had to move into a rental. Never took any responsibility for any of it.
* Accepted an invitation to my home for Christmas; never told me she really intended to go to uBPD sister's place. I only found out when I called to offer her a lift and she finally owned up. Later was told she and sister were laughing about me on Christmas Day saying how funny it was that I was hurt.
* My younger brother was getting married in a town 4 hours away (we get on and are close); he asked me to bring uNPDM to the wedding and I agreed to do this and pay for her hotel. I call two nights before to organise to pick her up; she says " Oh don't bother, I'm getting a lift with uNPD brother (who no-one has seen for 15 years) and he's bringing me home after the wedding. I say mum, I have already made the arrangements and he's not invited to the wedding. She says ' He'll go to movie '. I say 'You know we've already paid for your hotel room right ?. She says 'Oh you'll get the money back somehow'. The day of the wedding dawns, by then we've changed plans to go early and stay for 3 nights in the area. M calls after we've left 'Your brother can't go, I need you to get me'. I say Mum we are halfway there already, I've cancelled your room and we're not coming back for 3 days. She get's angry and screeches 'Oh I'm not coming then'. I say 'Hold on I'll call brother and see if anyone else is coming and can get you'. She says 'NO DON'T do that on his wedding day" and hangs up in my ear. By this stage I'm upset and there is nothing I can do anyway. A short while later brother rings very angry, M has already called him after saying I shouldn't. He says   ' I understand you've told Mum she's an old nuisance and isn't wanted at the wedding' . I'm left trying to convince him that she's lied. The wedding is ruined for me. Mother ends up coming by train but refuses to speak to me.

Honestly I could go on and on. The final straw came suddenly and it was far from the worst thing that had happened, but in that moment the point of no return had been reached. I decided to reflect carefully for 6 weeks and sought counselling but my decision had been made. I have never heard from her again.

My mother had always triangulated my sister and me.   Played one against the other.  I never bought into it, but sister did.  Sister would invite parents to grandkids' events, not invite me.  Knowing full well I was not there, mother would then brag to me about how nice the affair was.
The last straw:  I was getting married.  No relationship with S, she was not invited.  M calls me, works on me to "extend the olive branch," and invite S, etc., etc.  My husband-to-be made the mistake of taking up her cause, and I relented.  Called S and invited her to my wedding.  Her reply:  "Well, thank you for giving me my laugh for the day!"
I hung up hysterical, knowing I had been set up.  M then called my aunt, her sister, and bragged about how glad she was that S had "put me in my place."
M knew exactly what I would be walking into, yet pushed me to do it.  She tried to continue her smear campaign with aunt, until finally aunt said, "I am going to call chowder myself to find out directly, because that is not the chowder that I know."
And aunt did exactly that.  I am continually thankful to aunt for standing on her own two feet.  She had grown up with M's triangulation, and saw right through it.
What kind of mother sets up her own daughter to be hurt, and then turns around and brags about it?!?

The last straw straw for me was so comical yet horrifying I tried to forget about it immediately.

My N father, who has a pill addiction, drove by himself to Wyoming or Montana or somewhere remote for a job interview. He was high and driving in the middle of nowhere and wrecked. There was no cell reception and after some time a good samaritan found him and drove until there was cell reception to call for help. He was flown by helicopter to a hospital. He lied to the doctors, who pumped him full of morphine and then discharged him. During this time, my sister and I were on and off the phone with him and my HPD mother. HPD mom was hysterical the entire time. Everytime I talked to her she'd go on crazy tangents about how hard this was for her and I swear she was actively making it harder to get anything done. She told my sister and I we were no longer allowed to call our father. Good thing I disobeyed because I called him at his hotel and he was so inebriated I had to call the paramedics. A few days later my mother called me to tell me how terrible I was and how she had everything under control and I just made her and my father upset. At this moment I knew I could no longer tolerate the chaos.

It took me another year to officially break contact. The last time I spoke to her she told me I could pray away my daughter's deadly peanut allergy.

Hello all,

ExGC of HPDm here NC with just about dang near everyone.

In meeting w/ me, my T, M and her T, spoke my truth. Shared. Explained. Forgave. Empathized. It felt amazing. It felt like I had transformed into the caring, safe adult I had desperately needed when I was a child. And I didn't feel hostile or afraid or sad "at" my m. I felt like I was able to cradle the injured little me in my arms, sense my second baby in my belly, *and* feel compassion for the brittle, empty, and cruel woman in front of me. When I had first started therapy, I was living as a multiple. And here I was, not only whole but beyond whole.

After almost two hours, her T turned to me. Leonor, can you imagine a relationship with your mom if she does not acknowledge the abuse? Because she doesn't remember it.

I said No. I couldn't defend her anymore. I couldn't deny what she had done, what had happened to me. I was going to give up the one person I had always believed I needed in order to survive, who had given my life any real meaning. The problem was, it had been *her* meaning.

And look where that had gotten us. Five marriages broken between my two parents. Generations of addiction and abuse. Chaos for step children strewn about like used paper plates. And me, the perfect child, begging my t to put me in a psychiatric ward.

When m heard me say, No, she didn't blink. Well, I guess we have nothing left to talk about then, she said. She got up and walked out of the room.

That was 12 years ago. I don't have that same sensation of clarity and connection; I think I needed to experience it in that moment, but I had so much healing left to do, so much work (see: PD In-laws!) I still have work to do and I'm still in t and at times I still struggle with severe, dissociative flashbacks.

I did take a giant step that day, because the cruel trick pd parents play on the GC is the myth that they can make it all better. "We have such a special relationship," or "You deal with her, she'll listen to you" kind of crap. So I had healed in part hoping to heal my foo. Like, if I figure this out, then I can show you that healing is possible, we don't have to do this anymore, we can say yeah that was bad *and* still have a holiday dinner or something. I can go tell it on the mountain and we will all join hands and sing kumbaya!

That day was the wakeup call. They were not going to get better. I was going to become the scapegoat. It was her or me, and it made me sad, because she was mean spirited and crazy but also charming and fun and freaking brilliant and beautiful, and her whole soul had been sucked out by her sick parents.

I didn't get how bad I really had it until at a swimming lesson with my first grader. I was sitting with his three year old brother nearby. All of a sudden I hear my older chd say, I'm not having a good time. I want to go be with my family. And he got up out of the water and came to sit by us.

I was shocked, because I couldn't conceive of not only seeking refuge with one's family, but wanting to go be with them. What kid actually *wants* to be with their family? I wondered. He must be having an awful time.

But really he was just nervous about closing his eyes in the water.

Leonor I have always felt it was more damaging to be the GC than the SC. We SCs learn at an early age that we can't depend on our parents. I look at my GC sibling and see how they didn't build many adult skills as they had no need to because everything was taken care of for them. I have always had to rely on myself. That comes with its own issues but I've always been very self sufficient.

No discard is pleasant but I think it's that much more wrenching for the GC as it seemingly comes out of the blue and destroys their entire view of who they are and how they fit in to the world.

My childhood was littered with abuse and traumatic events. My Ndad has done so many things it's hard to pick just one. I'm sure there are many things that I don't remember at all (thankfully).

Every now and then a memory will surface.

One particular incident I've recently remembered is Ndad beating my pet rabbit to death with a piece of wood in front of 11 year old me because I wasn't looking after it properly.

Actually when I look back I'm amazed I stayed in contact with him for as long as I did, and didn't just go NC with him the moment I became an adult.

Death by a 1000 paper cuts seems to be the common cause.

The incident that lead to my NC? My M sent me a letter which ended in "if you can't be a better daughter, then don't contact me." So I didn't. That was 6 years ago.

It was my Get Out of Jail Free card.

~Jade

(((((( Nominuke )))))))

Mine was simple.

One day in my mid 30's I attempted to have a conversation with mother about some abusive events that occurred in my childhood. She denied it ever happened, even after 25 years or so of us having, what I understood, was an implicit understanding and acknowledgement of events. This has included a couple tearful conversations over the years. Something had flipped for her, she then recruited father and they stonewalled me.

Truth be told, I sort of lost it...! I sent a few angry letters and threatened legal action and assault charge for events that were so obviously illegal. Then, as I finally settled down, I walked away. 5 years later she died. I expect that father blames me, after all, mother was never responsible for her abusive behavior to me. To father, then enabler, I was always the one to blame. That is, when he wasn't yelling, dominating, forcing me to work as a young teen in a brutal labor job in his company etc. 

Death by 1000 papercuts is also what happened to me. By cut 1001, I was done. It never ends with these types of people. The best thing anyone can do in these kinds of family dynamics is give themselves the freedom of NC. It is rough in the beginning but worth it in the long run.