Recap. Hes 86 bit in pretty good health. Has had two knee replacements but he can still walk short distances. Could be worse.
Every single time I call him I get "I've been so ill" and he hasnt of course. Went through a stage of telling me how he couldn't breathe and felt so rough - because he had hayfever! I mean yes not nice but c'mon.
So today I had it double barrels how he almost called 999 to get an ambulance because he felt so ill. So I asked him what painkillers the doc gives him.
Paracetamol (acetaminphen) but he doesn't take the full dose because his friend said he'd get addicted! Jeez.
I know he used to take co-codamol (codeine) but he told me stopped these because they gave him constipation, doc gave him something to help with his. but he refused to take them because he didnt want it go the other way!
Apparently though, its ok because the doc has now told him to keep taking the paracetamol. Knowing Dad hes annoyed the GP so much, not listened, thinks he knows it all, that the GP is saying here pretty much do what you like.
I'm really annoyed to be honest. My wife has Fibromyalgia, takes many meds for this. Is late an hour or two for her meds and she can hardly walk some days. Yet, Dad in the past, even though he knows this has said to be that she needs to understand and got on with things a bit better because he needs help from me.
4 Paracetamol a day. I'm sorry, there is no way you are struggling with pain, if you're not even taking the full dose, and refuse to take a stronger pain killer on a doctors recommendation, just because you've either listened to your stupid friends, or won't put up with some slight inconvenience and side effects.....
Am I right here? He's beyond help now... IF he won't listen to his GP he won't listen to me.
Oh and he topped the conversation off well moaning hes been stuck in for weeks. Had a chance to go out friday but refused because "it looked like it might rain". Not that he was going to walking in the rain...
I know I know - I've got to stop letting his crazy behaviour wind me up......
Has he been ruled incompetent? If the answer is no, then there's not a thing you can do really.
Well, that's not entirely true. Every time he start in with how ill he's been, declare you've got a client calling and got to go now. Every single time. He can't wind you up if you're not listening to it.
It doesn't sound to me like he's harming his health so much as CHOOSING to "suffer" through the pain... probably so he can whine about it when he talks to you. Emphasis on "choosing" because assuming he is competent and capable of taking the pills, this is his choice. And that is his right as an adult. Leave him to it.
If it were me, I'd end the call or change the subject or answer with a simple, "That's too bad." when he starts up about it. He has his doctor's advice. If he's not going to take it, that's on him.
Quote from: Andeza on May 23, 2021, 06:42:45 PM
Has he been ruled incompetent? If the answer is no, then there's not a thing you can do really.
Well, that's not entirely true. Every time he start in with how ill he's been, declare you've got a client calling and got to go now. Every single time. He can't wind you up if you're not listening to it.
No - I've tried this route in the past with his GP. Hes competent.
Quote from: Cat of the Canals on May 23, 2021, 07:23:37 PM
It doesn't sound to me like he's harming his health so much as CHOOSING to "suffer" through the pain... probably so he can whine about it when he talks to you. Emphasis on "choosing" because assuming he is competent and capable of taking the pills, this is his choice. And that is his right as an adult. Leave him to it.
If it were me, I'd end the call or change the subject or answer with a simple, "That's too bad." when he starts up about it. He has his doctor's advice. If he's not going to take it, that's on him.
Yeh pretty much thats it. Knowing Dad his attitude towards doctors has always been awful. Its a case of "well its their job to sort me out". Of course, its not that easy.
Dad wants to go to GP, get a magic pill, no side effects, and hes bouncing around like a 20 year old.....
Its amazing how he will listen to his friends (who are as mad as him) over a health professional.
He doesn't want a solution. He wants to stay in victim mode and have you pander to him all the time. The 'magic pill' is your undivided attention. It's continual pandering and fussing that he wants. With no solution. Even if you get angry / cross with him, that will work well for him, and act as lovely fuel for supply for him.
Most people on this site are empaths and we want to help and find solutions. This caring approach gets exploited by them.
I spent years trying to solve my sister's 'problems'. Don't waste your life on it.
Medium chill, then get off the phone as soon as it starts.
And yes if he's on paracetamol he's okay. They usually ARE fine!
Quote from: nanotech on May 24, 2021, 03:37:50 AM
He doesn't want a solution. He wants to stay in victim mode and have you pander to him all the time.
:yeahthat:
p123 - Your father defines himself by being miserable. His entire identity is based on suffering. No one suffers as he does. No one is as sad and miserable and neglected as he is. And some day, probably when it's too late, his ungrateful children will realize what a martyr he was.
You can't fix this. I wish you could, because then I would fix my mom, too. It's how they are. I wish I understood it. I'm sure there are mental health workers who could explain a good deal of it to us. But bottom line - we are never going to understand how their brains work. Why would someone choose to be miserable? Is it even a choice? Maybe they are incapable of feeling joy and contentment? If that is the case, why? Is it how they were born or how they were raised or some combination of the two? All I know for certain is that I can't fix it. Because I've tried with my mom, and her default setting is "pain and misery" and her hope for the future is that "someday my children will realize what a martyr I was and will revere me for it."
Keep your boundaries strong and your medium chill set to high.
thanks all - part of the problem is I'm the total opposite of Dad....
He never took a chance on anything in his life, always took the safe option and never made much of himself. I always say he just wants to be the grey man that no-one sees. Not me - Im the opposite. Life is to be lived and chances need to be taken.
So this sitting back, moaning, and not doing anything to help yourself is alien to me..... Id be the opposite.
I gave him a chance this week. Explained that paracetamol is weak, and he really needs to go back to the GP if hes that bad. He made every excuse under the sun. Even said "I dont want to bother them". Which is rich from someone who, in the past, has been warned off for excessive 999 calls and by his GP practice for making multiple callouts every week for the same thing without listening to advice.
Bottom line looks to be the health people won't play the game he wants do hes given up on them. Also hes not really ill at all to be honest.
As you all say, hes never going to change......
As has often been said on this forum your F's behaviour sounds so much like mine. F is a bottomless pit of need and is always ill, miserable or angry with someone. This thing with health has always struck me as odd, when I once took F to his GP and he was asked what the problem was F said "you tell me you're the doctor", he only takes his prescribed pills now that he's in a care home and they make sure he takes them. He moans that nobody tells him anything about his illnesses when I've actually been there when GP has explained.
As Sneezy said I just do not understand any of it, I don't understand why he doesn't take any help that's offered, why he isn't satisfied with anything short of a miracle cure for all his ills, the reason he thinks he should be able to be as healthy as a forty year old without taking his doctor's advice. I've no idea why any of this happens or why he's always miserable, why he's angry all the time.
I think we have to accept that they look at the world in a very different way to us, they will never be happy or well, they will not change but we can change our response to them. For me acceptance has been the key, nothing I do or say will ever make a difference to F, I have no control over his actions of lack thereof so he has to face the consequences.
Quote from: Sneezy on May 24, 2021, 09:30:25 AM
Quote from: nanotech on May 24, 2021, 03:37:50 AM
He doesn't want a solution. He wants to stay in victim mode and have you pander to him all the time.
:yeahthat:
p123 - Your father defines himself by being miserable. His entire identity is based on suffering. No one suffers as he does. No one is as sad and miserable and neglected as he is. And some day, probably when it's too late, his ungrateful children will realize what a martyr he was.
You can't fix this. I wish you could, because then I would fix my mom, too. It's how they are. I wish I understood it. I'm sure there are mental health workers who could explain a good deal of it to us. But bottom line - we are never going to understand how their brains work. Why would someone choose to be miserable? Is it even a choice? Maybe they are incapable of feeling joy and contentment? If that is the case, why? Is it how they were born or how they were raised or some combination of the two? All I know for certain is that I can't fix it. Because I've tried with my mom, and her default setting is "pain and misery" and her hope for the future is that "someday my children will realize what a martyr I was and will revere me for it."
Keep your boundaries strong and your medium chill set to high.
This is it. He doesn't want a solution. He wants attention. And if you gave him attention it would not be enough. This personality is never satisfied. There is always something wrong, always something that needs to be fixed.....yet try and fix it and they don't want that too. Might require them to be happy or content for a few moments and we can't have that. This is all they have in life...to worry or fuss over something that is really nothing.
My father would have a problem and I would fix it...and next week he would have the same problem. How is that? He would keep asking if I was sure I fixed it. He didn't want it fixed he just wanted me there fussing over it with him. What he could not comprehend is that I had more than enough to do than to fuss over something insignificant and unimportant.
I bet if you told your father you'd be there next Saturday and you were going to spend the day and fix all his problems....he'd find an excuse for you to NOT come. He wants something to whine about because that is all he has. He has no interests or hobbies to keep himself busy. This is it and it really is not going to change. You just have to figure out the best way to react or not react to give you the most peace.
Quote from: p123 on May 23, 2021, 05:20:33 PM
Oh and he topped the conversation off well moaning hes been stuck in for weeks. Had a chance to go out friday but refused because "it looked like it might rain". Not that he was going to walking in the rain...
sounds like PD parent who wouldn't come over when everyone was invited
it was snowing & they were afraid of getting in car accident on 10 min drive here with someone else driving!
meanwhile I was out in snow getting their "special" pizza cause they only like one type
I get back to find out they weren't coming & didn't bother to let me know
They really are an almighty pain in the backside. Reading all the above it comes down to one word: supply. And they would rather ruin their health if it means they get supply. It is THE motivating factor, above and beyond all other considerations, including us, their own children. Gargh!
Quote from: Boat Babe on June 01, 2021, 02:25:07 AM
Reading all the above it comes down to one word: supply.
This is the hardest thing for me to understand. What is supply? I've read articles on narcissistic supply. But I don't think it's something I can understand. I can't wrap my brain around it. I can not - in any way, shape, or form - understand why someone would risk his health to get supply. Or why someone would lie, manipulate, hurt others, be a victim, exaggerate, cheat on their spouse, compartmentalize, alienate family and friends, etc., etc., etc. all in order to get this thing called "supply."
This is where it breaks down for me. And I suppose for many of us. Sure, we all like a little positive attention now and then. A pat on the back for a job well done. But "supply" is something else, and I will never understand it.
Why would anyone do those same (or mostly same) things for drugs? Because it is a real, physical addiction. In this case, they feed on the power they have over others. The power to influence, control, manipulate. It gives them a real high. Just like heroin or cocaine or any of the other high-producing drugs.
I've seen my uBPDm lie in bed and moan that she's in pain, then be downright giddy after people visit. She manipulated them into coming. She got what she wanted, and then she was high off the attention. And she'd be back to normal for a while until she decided she wanted everyone to pay attention to her again.
Honestly, not being able to fully understand it is probably a good thing in some ways. It's a fairly good indicator you don't work in the same dysfunctional way.
My Ndad does this for supply, as does my Nsis.
I spoke too soon. Today I had dad trying to coerce me into contacting 'poor' Nsis who 'has been very ill.'
Obligation and guilt buttons firmly pressed, with a helping of fear ( his surly tone).
Sigh 😔
Glad they are disconnected.
She's find btw just pulled a muscle and had a dental emergency at the same time. ( she doesn't attend checkups due an exaggerated fear of dentists).
I'm not contacting her.
Quote from: p123 on May 27, 2021, 10:23:24 AM
I gave him a chance this week. Explained that paracetamol is weak, and he really needs to go back to the GP if hes that bad. He made every excuse under the sun. Even said "I dont want to bother them". Which is rich from someone who, in the past, has been warned off for excessive 999 calls and by his GP practice for making multiple callouts every week for the same thing without listening to advice.
Stop giving him chances. You're just feeding into his black hole of need for attention. He KNOWS paracetamol is useless. He KNOWS he's taking less than the appropriate dosage. HE. DOES. NOT. CARE.
What DOES he care about? Filling in that black hole of need for attention. No more, no less. Start working on your MC. Erect your boundaries. "Mmhmm" him to death while rolling your eye. "Dad, I've gotta go back to work." HANG UP IMMEDIATELY. Don't let him draw you into another half hour of moaning & whinging. That's what he wants AND YOU KEEP GIVING IT TO HIM.
The only person who can stop this cycle is YOU. You can't MAKE your dad stop his cycle. What you CAN do is stop YOURS. Kick your dad's buttons to the curb & replace those buttons with happier ones that you can do with your wife & children. :)
What daisy girl 77 said.
Quote from: lightworld on May 30, 2021, 06:57:23 AM
As has often been said on this forum your F's behaviour sounds so much like mine. F is a bottomless pit of need and is always ill, miserable or angry with someone. This thing with health has always struck me as odd, when I once took F to his GP and he was asked what the problem was F said "you tell me you're the doctor", he only takes his prescribed pills now that he's in a care home and they make sure he takes them. He moans that nobody tells him anything about his illnesses when I've actually been there when GP has explained.
As Sneezy said I just do not understand any of it, I don't understand why he doesn't take any help that's offered, why he isn't satisfied with anything short of a miracle cure for all his ills, the reason he thinks he should be able to be as healthy as a forty year old without taking his doctor's advice. I've no idea why any of this happens or why he's always miserable, why he's angry all the time.
I think we have to accept that they look at the world in a very different way to us, they will never be happy or well, they will not change but we can change our response to them. For me acceptance has been the key, nothing I do or say will ever make a difference to F, I have no control over his actions of lack thereof so he has to face the consequences.
Thats my Dad 100%. Go to the doctors they give you a magic pill and you're fine - its their job.
All falls down because he cant deal with being old, things not being able to be helped. Then when meds are "inconvenient" he hates it.
I mean how on earth can you take a painkiller, then moan it gives you constipation (ok fair enough) then when the doc gives him something to help this, refuse to take it "just in case" it goes the other way. What does he expect? Pfizer to invent a med suitable for him?
Quote from: Boat Babe on June 01, 2021, 02:25:07 AM
They really are an almighty pain in the backside. Reading all the above it comes down to one word: supply. And they would rather ruin their health if it means they get supply. It is THE motivating factor, above and beyond all other considerations, including us, their own children. Gargh!
yeh I know. One thing I've never got my head around is how he cant treat me so badly.....
Quote from: Sneezy on June 01, 2021, 09:00:49 AM
Quote from: Boat Babe on June 01, 2021, 02:25:07 AM
Reading all the above it comes down to one word: supply.
This is the hardest thing for me to understand. What is supply? I've read articles on narcissistic supply. But I don't think it's something I can understand. I can't wrap my brain around it. I can not - in any way, shape, or form - understand why someone would risk his health to get supply. Or why someone would lie, manipulate, hurt others, be a victim, exaggerate, cheat on their spouse, compartmentalize, alienate family and friends, etc., etc., etc. all in order to get this thing called "supply."
This is where it breaks down for me. And I suppose for many of us. Sure, we all like a little positive attention now and then. A pat on the back for a job well done. But "supply" is something else, and I will never understand it.
Oh I see it!
Everything Dad does. NOTHING else is more important to him than getting me to do some task for him. Doesnt matter what. The harder the better because hes proving he can get me to do what he wants.
Quote from: DaisyGirl77 on June 01, 2021, 12:25:49 PM
Quote from: p123 on May 27, 2021, 10:23:24 AM
I gave him a chance this week. Explained that paracetamol is weak, and he really needs to go back to the GP if hes that bad. He made every excuse under the sun. Even said "I dont want to bother them". Which is rich from someone who, in the past, has been warned off for excessive 999 calls and by his GP practice for making multiple callouts every week for the same thing without listening to advice.
Stop giving him chances. You're just feeding into his black hole of need for attention. He KNOWS paracetamol is useless. He KNOWS he's taking less than the appropriate dosage. HE. DOES. NOT. CARE.
What DOES he care about? Filling in that black hole of need for attention. No more, no less. Start working on your MC. Erect your boundaries. "Mmhmm" him to death while rolling your eye. "Dad, I've gotta go back to work." HANG UP IMMEDIATELY. Don't let him draw you into another half hour of moaning & whinging. That's what he wants AND YOU KEEP GIVING IT TO HIM.
The only person who can stop this cycle is YOU. You can't MAKE your dad stop his cycle. What you CAN do is stop YOURS. Kick your dad's buttons to the curb & replace those buttons with happier ones that you can do with your wife & children. :)
You're right. Im 75% of the way there....... I do boundaries but still let it upset me.
Todays was a classic. Something about he had to go to the optician for something. Can I take time off work?
Umm, I dont get paid when Im not working. Im not taking time off to drive 25 miles to drive you 300 yards in the car. (its is that close) because A) You won't walk even though you can, B) You refuse to use the scooter I bought you or C) You refuse my offer of paying for a taxi....
But of course, its a test. I'm such a bad son I wont take my Dad when hes struggling..... Always the same with him.
He did the same with Covid injections. Doctor told him no hes mobile so he can come to the surgery (which he didnt like). 500 yards. No Dad get a taxi.... All I had then was "Oh I'll have to miss it I can't get a lift, I'll just have to hope I dont get Covid". Even though I'd offered a taxi as a solution.
In the end, he got his cousin off his "mug list" to do it.
Just a thought- there are other types of painkillers, stronger than paracetamol- but which don't cause constipation. Having said that, he would probably find a problem with each one. :roll: And he would love nothing more than watching you get extremely frustrated with him as he scoffingly rejects them one by one.
It's all jolly good supply for his false sense of victimhood.
They don't want a solution to their situation. They just don't want their situation to exist. Their only way to try to regain control is to complain loudly to us to 'fix it'.
After all, everything is always all our fault!
I think the truth is, they don't want to be old with ailments, and have to be reliant on any meds.
It messes with their false image of themselves as superior and powerful.
Quote from: nanotech on June 02, 2021, 01:48:29 PM
Just a thought- there are other types of painkillers, stronger than paracetamol- but which don't cause constipation. Having said that, he would probably find a problem with each one. :roll: And he would love nothing more than watching you get extremely frustrated with him as he scoffingly rejects them one by one.
It's all jolly good supply for his false sense of victimhood.
They don't want a solution to their situation. They just don't want their situation to exist. Their only way to try to regain control is to complain loudly to us to 'fix it'.
After all, everything is always all our fault!
I think the truth is, they don't want to be old with ailments, and have to be reliant on any meds.
It messes with their false image of themselves as superior and powerful.
He'd find fault no doubt..... He said the doc now says "yes just take paracetamol". He got a warning off the senior doc a few years ago because he just kept phoning them for the same thing. I think they've washed their hands of him a bit because he just won't do what they say anyway.
Hes moaning today he feels like hes dying - hayfever. Yeh its not pleasant but he doesnt listen again when I (and doc) tell him hes got to take them for a bit not just the odd day then stop. He mentioned the magic word "breathless" I can see a 999 call coming on...........