I've been wondering lately what defines lonliness.
I'd like a partner but I also really feel the need to be alone lately.
I'm not sure why. I think I'm just world weary.
I've found the nearly 2 year pandemic has really highlighted the depravity of man in general. I'm at the point where I only read news headlines. I don't watch or listen to news broadcasts at all. It's just too depressing.
And I can't help thinking that the definition of a "normal" person has shifted.
I feel that courtesy, honour and respect are dying out with the old generation. Perhaps they set the bar too high.
I'm tired. I'd like a partner to do life with but I find it difficult to believe that there's anyone out there who would be suitable.
And then, because of my pd experiences, if someone "normal" were to show up and treat me with honour andrespect, even just to show an interest- I don't think I'd know what to do with that.
I'm so used to not being listened to, to having my opinions and feelings shot down. I don't think I'd be able to compute a different response.
And yet these are the sorts of things I'd like to talk about with a partner.
I don't know. I'm lonely for the ideal, I guess.
And just tired of life and people.
Oh well. Here's to another day.
AOD
At least you have faith in the old generation lol, I don't have that!
I guess what I do have is some appreciation for the fact that more people are talking about this kind of thing and SOME positive action is happening, as well as a lot of negative action of course.
A final suggestion. Maybe, don't even bother reading news headlines? Or only check them once a week or something.
I hear you AOD. We're living through a prolonged crisis and it's not bringing out the best in everyone. Your tiredness sounds like a pretty reasonable response to this last two years and I too have really cut my news intake down to a minimum for the sake of preserving my sanity.
Finding it difficult to believe that there's anyone out there who would be suitable for you is probably a more realistic feeling than thinking you can glide effortlessly through the dating world. And even people who haven't had the PD experiences most of us have had on here, have times in their lives when they're single and feel there's no one out there for them.
FWIW, I think the fact that you can articulate all this : "I'm so used to not being listened to, to having my opinions and feelings shot down. I don't think I'd be able to compute a different response. And yet these are the sorts of things I'd like to talk about with a partner," tells me that if/when you do meet someone compatible you will be able to share yourself honestly with them and there's a chance for real intimacy there. You're not doomed to dating only PDs.
Totally fair to be tired of life and people right now. I hope that you find solace and healing in your the solitude and in the fact that you are not alone in what you feel at this time.
AoD, im sorry you are feeling alone and/or lonely. You wrote:
"And then, because of my pd experiences, if someone "normal" were to show up and treat me with honour andrespect, even just to show an interest- I don't think I'd know what to do with that."
That is 100% me. I have decided that if I ever find myself unmarried, i will not marry again. Im an introvert anyway, so i greatly enjoy my own company and recharge alone, and that will be to my advantage. But, i believe i truly would not know how to receive the true love of a spouse. It was not modeled growing up around my uPDfather and mother and now, Ive been married to my uPDW for three decades. My dating years prior to my wife were all about promiscuity and dating my wife was all sex and love-bombing as well.
If im ever not married, im going to dive into hobbies and try and enjoy getting to know both males and females as friends, interacting closely with both and enjoying the attributes of both sexes.
Again, sorry you are feeling alone.
SoT
Quote from: Associate of Daniel on December 07, 2021, 03:28:05 AM
I feel that courtesy, honour and respect are dying out with the old generation.
And just tired of life and people.
^ I agree
there is no customer service anymore; If one is able to get a person on phone, they just say "everything's on website" with no interest in helping whatsoever
went to get air in tire
man pulls right up to front of my car blocking me from pulling forward & out
most people are courteous to leave space
I gestured for him to back up but instead he jumps out of car and stands there with his arms folded like a little baby
Hi AoD.
I know what you mean.
The masses do seem to be getting worse.
The psychological damage being done by social media, the greed and self-absorption of those in power, the pandemic for the last couple of years, etc, have made a lot of people take off their rose-tinted glasses, and become a bit disenchanted with the World.
But there are good people out there.
Not as many as we would like, and maybe once thought, but they are there.
And because of our experiences with a PD, we are definitely going to be more discerning when it comes to who we let into our life.
But don't let get you down.
Let it be a huge plus.
You will no longer let in anyone who doesn't deserve you, and if you did happen to, you now have the experience and the wisdom to know that you will kick them to the curb the moment they show toxic traits.
Personally, I've shrunk my inner circle considerably, and I've never been happier.
And when I have to meet friends of friends that I don't know, and they seem toxic in their behaviour, I call them out on it as it happens, in front of everyone.
It happened last week.
I won't go into details, but they were being passive-aggressive to a female friend of mine, and I said "Nice compliment, but couldn't you have done it without the little dig?".
They didn't know what to do, and said they weren't having a dig.
I replied "Oh, I know exactly what you were doing." and just looked them squarely in the eye until they looked away.
Some of my friends told me they loved it (I guess he's like it with everyone, and no-one calls him on it), and some of them didn't like me doing it because it made them feel uncomfortable (I told them later that that's precisely what toxic people are depending on them feeling, and that it's how they get away with it).
On the relationship side, I was very cautious when getting together with my new girlfriend, and still am to some degree, but again, that's a huge positive.
My BPD ex gf took over ALL my time, even though I worked a long way away, and whenever I took some holiday time off, we were together ALL THE TIME, which at the time I thought was sweet.
Now, with my new gf, I see her 3 or 4 times a week, and really enjoy the time I spend with her (and I don't avoid spending days at a time with her, because that would mean my toxic ex would be affecting my current relationship, and I won't have that).
The thing is, the days that I don't spend any time with my gf are really great too.
I look forward to seeing her, and we talk a couple of times a day at least on the phone, but I REALLY enjoy my ME time.
Not just because of the amount of work that I can get done, but also everything else, whether it's time in the Gym, jogging, walking my dog, or just lazing around watching NetFlix or playing Breath of the Wild or SMM2.
Everything just seems so balanced, without the drama and chaos and trauma.
So don't give up on finding good people.
The fact that you already say that you feel the need to be alone is a great start, and it's really healthy.
This social obsession that "everybody should be with someone" is nonsense, and the cause of a lot of toxic relationships in my opinion.
Just enjoy your own company, and work on yourself, doing things you've always wanted to do.
And if someone should come along further down the road, then just make sure they know your needs are just as important as theirs, and keep your feet on the ground.
In the meantime, you get to do whatever you want, whenever you want, and there's nothing wrong with that.
When me and my BPD ex gf first broke up, I could suddenly see so many people stuck in miserable, toxic relationships, and the effect it has had on their looks and health.
It made me realise that I needed to look after myself, and if any woman wanted to be in a relationship with me, she would have to be respectful of just how awesome I am! (bit tongue-in-cheek, but you know what I mean. Know your worth, and don't be afraid to let people know it when they forget it.)
I really like the fact that you say that being not heard or seen, and being treated less than are things that you would like to talk about to a future partner.
After coming out of a toxic relationship with a Cluster B, I think it's really important to talk to new partners about it.
As well as the fact that talking about it means that you're not repressing these feelings, it's also important that your new partner understands what you went through.
I wouldn't recommend blurting it all out on the second date or anything ;).
Personally, I left it a few months before going into any detail, although there were a few occasions in the beginning where I had to call her on something, and then say that I would explain why I had a problem with it at a later date, when we knew each other better.
She was fine with that, and it's another way of seeing how understanding and reasonable they are going to be in your relationship.
(I should state that at this time, I was fully prepared to walk away immediately if something seemed wrong.)
Anyway, whether you decide you want a partner or not in the future, life is there for the taking, and despite what convention would have you believe, you don't need someone else to enjoy it.
Final note: I've only ever been lonely once in my life, and that was the year that I was with my BPD ex gf.
That's no exaggeration.
PDs have a knack of making their partners feel alone.
Worse than alone, because being alone is fine.
I never thought it was possible to be in a relationship AND be lonely, but with a PD partner, it really is.
Really weird!
Hope I haven't rambled too long.
Life is precious, so enjoy every second you can. :)
Oh my goodness AOD I have been having similar thoughts. I am enjoying my singlehood but a partner would be lovely - someone to share with and talk things out with - but I fear that I am not yet strong enough to not slip back into those habits I developed with my xOCPDh. With this pandemic and all that fall out politically across the world, we are certainly seeing the worst in people.
I did something last night in the wee hours of the morning that relate perfectly to your post.
Coming off three days of binging Christmas movies - you know the one's where there is a secret prince or old flame or stuck in a cabin movie - I was nestled in bed with the warm blanket and cup of hot tea when I had the wonder and idea of who is really there for me. In this internet age and pandemic, all you can do is sign up for online dating.
Up to now - two years out of the divorce - I have had no interest in even considering another person in my life.
So out of curiosity and with jingle bells still ringing in my ears, I signed up for a dating app. It was pretty easy and I was just curious to see who was out there.
Two hours later after scrolling through the hundreds of men - yes hundreds - my main thought was how do I tell if they are an abuser? I found myself looking at their eyes and thinking - they look a little too hard or self-assured or something. I admit there was one person who looked oK. One.
I fell asleep with my laptop open and the light still on.
When I woke up this morning, before I even poured coffee, I deleted my profile. I am not ready. In the cold light of day with the high of Christmas movie romance worn off, I realize I am not ready.
But maybe you are. I think that just wondering if there is anyone - writing about it here and putting it out into the universe - you may be ready to explore within yourself what boundaries you need; the person you would consider letting in and all that goes with it.
I think maybe my four-hour foray into digital dating was the same. Maybe.
I hope my description of my brief dip into online dating amused you. :bighug:
QuoteI've found the nearly 2 year pandemic has really highlighted the depravity of man in general. I'm at the point where I only read news headlines. I don't watch or listen to news broadcasts at all. It's just too depressing.
And I can't help thinking that the definition of a "normal" person has shifted.
I feel that courtesy, honour and respect are dying out with the old generation. Perhaps they set the bar too high.
I'm tired.
Have mercy, I feel all this too! People seem so incredibly self involved and entitled, unwilling or maybe just plain unable/don't know how to reach out to each other much less strangers. And the rudeness, completely oblivious to personal space or inconvenience to others, the lack of respect shown to those around us?!! I'm very frustrated when asking for help anywhere, everyone seems so overloaded and underappreciated when they're not flat out angry. I'm making a point to thank any and everyone I encounter, let them know they are SEEN. One grocery employee recently said I was the only person that whole day who'd actually spoken to her, looked her in the eye and shared a smile. That just hurt my soul, that this is what so many people have become.
I've also pretty much stopped reading or listening to the news, it's just too much doom and gloom for me. I'm not being an ostrich but I'm more than ready for focus to shift to better things. I refuse to give in to the mindset that it's all bad out there.
I don't know about you but I've realized how much of an introvert I really am, that I'm at heart in need of solitude. But at the same time, I despise going to events alone, and dragging along with friends is sometimes more irritating than if I'd chosen to just stay home! There's few things more lonely than watching fireworks alone, have you ever noticed? And that new years eve countdown. And I'm completely unwilling to take on any and everyone just for the sake of having a warm body nearby. Been there, done that, paid the price later.
Just keep breathing in and out, add laughter where you can, try to ignore the frowns and growls around you. It's all I've got - but know you're not really alone. More than a few of us are there with you.
I can relate to being alone and lonely in a relationship.
I am not in a position to consider dating yet, but used a friend's login to look at a couple of dating apps. I scratched my head and wondered how in the world had she answered the questions to get those suggestions. Lol.
I think the answer is to move forward with creating your best life and if a partner is meant to be you will meet them or be introduced in the course of living a fully balanced life.
One thing that stuck out in n Simons story is how he and his gf had days where they don't see each other and they have time for their own needs.
This is not enmeshment and it's healthy. For me, I see any attempt at enmeshment as a warning and red flag. I think that healthy people have lives and hobbies and obligations aside from my friendship with them. Anyone who wants all in at the very beginning is likely a pd or worse.
As far as there being good folks in the world, I can say for sure there are. I interact with a group online and we just formed a women's subgroup. What a great group.we have weekly online chats and will get together for a camping trip. The question of the week let's us get to know each other. Wow, some of the ladies have been through so much and accomplished so much and have such great values. I learn so much each meeting and am reminded that there are great people out there.
There are also some wonderful men. I have had the pleasure of having some good friendships with some very fine men over the years. I recently lost a jewel of a friend from whom I learned so much and had such a great example in. He was a man of deep faith and integrity. I am honored to have been care for and loved as his friend, and to have been treated as a member of his family.
I notice that the more I distance myself from the artificial world of social media and the divisiveness that the algorithms encourage and facilitate the better my Outlook is. The news media tends to drive the same divisiveness.
In reality few people are as the extremes that are setup in media. For example I know a transgendered person who is a veteran, a Trump supporting Republican and considers themselves an Evengelical Christian, and does not consider themselves part of the LGBT community. Not saying I understand what seems a conflict on the surface, I just accept that it's this person's understanding. Facebook and the nightly news would have me believe this not possible.
Before I moved, I used to exchange Christmas's presents with my Muslim neighbors and would attend their Fast breaking Feast after Ramadan. These folks were from another country and another religion but we're the best of neighbors and we shared tools and helped each other on big projects.
There are good folks in every neighborhood regardless of the demographic. We just have to go out in the world and meet them as we are ready.
In the meantime I remain alone in my relationship, but Imagine that I will actively date for the first time in my life when the time comes and without delay. I remain optimistic I will always find my tribe of good honest folks with integrity.
Thanks for the encouraging and understanding replies, folks.
Just Keep Trying, your story of your very brief foray into online dating had me laughing out loud. Thank-you for sharing.
Moglow, I don't really go to any events these days, but like you, I hate going alone when I do. I feel like the odd one out, and very conspicuous.
I'm usually on my own on new year's eve and last year I think I inadvertently started my own solo tradition. I think I broke a Covid restriction in the process but don't tell anyone.
At about 11.30pm I drove to the local McDonalds drive through and bought myself a McFlurry.
I then drove further out into a more rural area (outside the 5km radius restriction that I think might have been in place at the time) and sat on the side of a country road in the dark eating my icecream.
Cows in the paddock beside me. 4 lots of fireworks to watch across the valley and up the local mountain. Tchaikovsky's 1812 overture blaring on the radio.
It was great, even if I was on my own.
I think I'll do it again this year. Anyone care to join me from their corner of the world?
AOD
That sounds great AOD.
I'm a bit late in joining you but it's still New Year's Day in my corner of the world, so have a good one!
AOD,
I thought of you and your inadvertant tradition on NYE but unfortunately I couldn't go out. So Instead I raised a glass to you from the solitary quiet of my couch. Next year, I'm all in.
Peace
I think Covid has a lot to do with it. People's lives have changed so much over the past two years and isolation has had a dramatic effect on our minds and habits. This goes for everyone obvs but if we are in PD recovery, then that factor is gonna be a biggy.
Are people "getting worse"? I don't know. I personally know some truly wonderful people, men and women, and find most people OK. The unpleasant ones, I run a mile these days.
I'm mostly OK with being single. It's a balancing act between my highly prized autonomy and a very human need for intimacy. I'll take being happily single over miserably paired any day though, so my codependency is less prominent, which is good.
Sending hugs to everyone as they work through this.
I have been married or with a partner for most of my life.
Dreaming about being single and not having to be concerned about the repercussions of doing something 'wrong' is akin to dreaming of winning the lottery. I envy single people.
At the same time, I also envy married people who have good relationships. I would welcome that. But if I ever find myself single, I will stay that way. Not interested in taking my chances, and I think it's more about me, than them.
In my eternal optimistic way, I still think there's good out there. More than bad. Maybe naive, but I can't think that the world has gone to shit. The noisy, narc, opinionated ones are just louder with their platforms. We can shut them off..
Isolation with yourself can be time to really get to know the great person that is you. I don't get to do that, I get shut down or teased or bullied any time I let my guard down and say a 'me' thing.
Along with Boat Babe, sending hugs...