There's Hope, the rules work, but I am not happy.

[1footouttadefog]

I have been here for years now.  I see a constant stream of people come here as the time flies by.

Many have the same questions at first.  Is there hope, can this be fixed, can I do something to make it better.

The answer is of course yes and no and maybe. 

I thought I post a brief summary of my experience. 

I came here when I had been married about 30 years.  A few years before I found my way here things had gotten pretty bad.  There were always signs but in my case things did not gradually build over the long time.  Instead they did a hockey stick shaped graph line.

Reading the tools, rules, and the traights list did much to affirm I was not the main problem.  It brought needed clarity from outside sources at a time when I was sleep deprived and overwhelmed with caretaking children and elderly people while working and homeschooling etc etc, in addition to my pdh's mental health taking a dive.

The rules and boundaries helped.  They helped my disengaged emotionally and set boundaries against abusive behaviour. 

Things are not best but are far more stable.  I would not still be here if they were not.  I say this to give hope.  Some people might actually experience enough change positive change to make it work. 

I also at the same time admit defeat.  Things are stable.  But I no longer have a spouse except in a legal since.  I have a roommate who happens to be related to my children by blood. 

I cannot say I have a marriage except for the obligation I feel to not sleep with other men.  There is no emotional intimacy and no physical intimacy. (He is the denier)

I have a while longer to raise the kids then hope for clarity at that time for what is next.

This report is mixed it's good and bad and equates to not great and livable at best, in terms of relationship.  I have freedom to pursue hobbies and traveler.  But it seems hollow at times because I should be sharing it all with someone else.  I am tired of being single while having the obligations of marriage but respect my role as mother enough to finish this phase before cutting my kite string and soaring.

Becareful what you strive for.  And always ask is better good enough for the rest of your life when you know you are not happy.  Should you settle if you know they are never going to own their part of what does not work in the relationship.


   

[Poison Ivy]

Thank you.  I appreciate this post very much.  I wish you were happier.

[lilwren]

I'm just striving to have a non-abusive roommate because I certainly don't have a husband. There's no marriage ... no partnership. It's survival, but my attitude has changed enough that I'm going to be open to any opportunities that might come my way.  I'm going to look out for myself and let the universe take care of the rest of it. It keeps me sad and angry, but... hopefully I'll grow and heal ... hopefully we all will.

[Pinky]

I can relate to so many of the things you said. And I get that hollow feeling. I feel that a lot. I didn't think I would be married to be alone and to have to do so much on my own.  I am new here and just starting to really work on me and use the tools so my life is stable and I can take care of myself while my pdh storm/tornado blows by. I really was hoping to have a marriage with a deep connection, someone I could relate to emotionally. And after 10 years, I don't even have someone who can ask me how I am or how my day is. My pdh has been using porn again and denies it. It really hurts that he would rather use porn than be intimate with me. I used to have so much hope, but as time has gone by and all the mean things that have been said to me, and the push and pull that happens, that hope to me has turned toxic. Today I returned my replacement wedding ring and it felt so good. I am not a wife-he is not my husband-I am married to someone. We are bound legally and financially. I live with a roommate, nothing more than that.
I wish it wasn't this way for anyone. I think we all deserve to be loved in ways we deserve and want. And I hope one day, I find that for myself.

[1footouttadefog]

Porn played into our situation alot.  He was addicted to it and lied to meabout / hid it it all.  Then after we were married came the constant betrayal.   I was deprived of what I was entitled to.  I was defrauded into a vow that he breaks in my opinion.  Things were better for many years once boundaries were set etc.  Then came the kids and back to porn he went and ever since I have been a single woman so to speak.  His mother died about that time and I was parentified totally.   Things seemed so good when they were babies then everything mental illness and intimacy related nose dived into the abyss of dysfunction.

Not a good dynamic.  I think that there is a great deal of truth to the idea of porn effecting the brain like drugs do.  The waymany porn addicts act has oh so many parallels to drug addicts; even the way they manipulate and objectify etc., Justify, blame, project, lie steal, etc etc.

I also experienced that it can cause at least some men to no longer be mentally or physically able to perform in real life so to speak. 

Other women in similar situations have reported similar and some men younger than expected themselves report porn related e.d. difficulties in forums about the topic online. 

I would have never chosen a life of celibacy.  I thought I was doing quite the opposite when I got married.  What a big f'ing, well actually not f'ing rip off. 

[Jumpy]

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but in essence, the tools work, but it is not enough. That's been my experience. I think of it as the tools are like a fire hose that can help to put out the fire, which is good, but in the end, you're left with a big mess.

I hope you take some satisfaction with implementing the tools though. It ain't easy and it is in fact an accomplishment.

Re: role as a mother being a priority - sure it is, and I am sure you are a good one. That's the struggle, it's not just about us is it. I keep coming back to this is their only childhood. You can get a new job, or a new wife, but you can't give your kids another childhood, so the stakes are high. I (and you, and every parent struggling here) want to do the best we can for them. The PDs in our life make that extra challenging, but that goal remains.

Feel good about what you've achieved. I wish you the best going forward.

[SparkStillLit]

I really have a sneaking suspicion about porn in our life, and there are some mysterious performance issues in a relatively young man that just shouldn't be happening. OF COURSE they are laid at my feet, but I'm not buying that at ALL. I would venture to say that any other man would erm let's say not have a SINGLE performance issue if I were to carry my ways outside of here (which I would never do. I'm just saying. I don't think for one instant it's my fault or I'm "not participating".)

[Whatthehey]

1footouttadefog,

In many ways your story mirrors mine. Abusive brother, children, PDh and marriage for more than 30 years. The difference is I was unable to live with him after the FOG lifted.  I knew myself well enough that I wouldn't be able to not jade all the time.

I applaud you for keeping it together for the kids.  It cant be easy. 

My middle child is different. She pushes boundaries and society norms. After chemo years ago,  my x fell into a deep funk and took it on her. I was so preoccupied caring for myself and our disabled son I didnt see it. Until she attempted suicide. At 14. Looking back I should have taken them both to a shelter and run as far as I could.

Now she is angry with me for not leaving then.  I dont blame her. She has been through turmoil too.

If wishes were horses, then beggars could ride.

If you are staying for the kids, make sure it is best.

[tommom]

1foot, I can relate as well. The tools are excellent and useful, but only to a point, as Jumpy points out. I wanted children, lost all of mine to miscarriage, and as horrible as it sounds, knowing the childhood they would have experienced makes me comforted in that pain in a way, because they didn't experience it. What a sadness that makes me feel, but it is so hard, so painful, as most of us here know, to live through a childhood with a PD parent. Rationalization, certainly, but there it is.

I don't know what to suggest, having lived in a similar situation. Married for 46 years, living daily with the chaos, knowing it for what it is now, but still always braced for what it coming next. Like Whatthehey, I find it more and more difficult to manage for myself after coming Out of the FOG, but at the moment, that is what it is. The worst part is that he doesn't seem to recognize the distance, but then he must sense it in some way, mustn't he? Maybe, maybe not. Of course, neither way is particularly positive.

I don't have anything to offer except to make sure you have something to hold onto for yourself. A good T, someone you can talk to, a job or hobbies of your own that you love. Of course, my H always tries to ingratiate himself in there, so vigilance against that (like everything in the Out of the FOG life) is always necessary, It feels under siege, but then, I have never lived a life that isn't. I just know it now. Maybe that is true of most people, PD spouse or not.  I just don't know. My worst is that my house is a horrible mess and it continues at all time (he is a hoarder, as I have said here many times) but that is a battle I have had to learn to wage with detente.

I am so sorry, I truly understand, and I wish you all the best. Tommom.

[Pinky]

@spark still lit-what you mentioned is what I experienced until sex according to my pdh said was too mechanical. He wouldn't be able to climax with me at all. And I would tell him how it made me feel and he said it was my fault for pressuring him to perform, that there is no chemistry, that as I said before it too mechanical and it's how bad our marriage is. I think he created pathways in his brain that has made it no longer possible for him to climax with me due to the images he sees while watching porn. What one foot out of de fog mentioned is very true, that porn addiction is very similar to drug addiction. Sex with another person is just not the same and the rush/dopamine release that one gets from porn is not the same from sex. Not only that after a while of using either toys or one's hand, but the feeling also is not the same either. It will be harder to achieve orgasm.
I wanted children so bad and he would tell me he wanted them and then he would say he didn't, tell me I wouldn't be a good mom, that our marriage isn't strong enough. I am 41 now and I lost that opportunity and I hate myself every day for sacrificing being a mom and waiting for something to change.
I have been using the tools more and more and I feel even more lonely. I don't share anything about me and he doesn't even ask how I am. He doesn't ask where I go or what I am doing. I didn't realize how much I shared before. It has become all about him. And the more and more we live like this, the more and more i want out.

[1footouttadefog]

My pdh does not care what I do for the most part.  Along as I -the parent figure - am not angry with him his world is okay. 

I cannot believe at times he can be so uninterested in life.  He has his health, enough money to do what he wants I. Reason and he sits and does nothing all day.  No ambition, no okands, no dreams or hopes or future.  Just what's for lunch. What's for dinner. 

[capybara]

1foot, thank you for sharing. I am sad that it is so difficult for you. At the same time, I found your experience gives me insight.

I found that MC worked for me to a point, but it left me feeling very conscious of the one-sidedness of our relationship. And that in turn made me sad and lonely, and sometimes hopeless.

I think MC is a great strategy for non-chosen relationships. It helps me manage my mother better, and sometimes I grieve about that, but I can accept it. But somehow having to maintain that unacknowledged distance in a marriage/intimate partnership is just too painful and depressing.

[1footouttadefog]

The thing is he is not longer an intimate partner.  I no longer consider this a marriage.  He is a roommate and the biological parents of my kids. 

I hurts less all the time.  When the time is right I will start another chapter in life. 

When I say I am unhappy, this is only in regard to my "single" status and the daily annoyances of living with a pd.  I have my health, enough money to live pretty well and eat healthy and Interesting food, as well as the extra cash to pursue hobbies and take small trips etc. 

[Lauren17]

1foot,
Your post really resonated with me. Thank you for sharing.
I agree that the tools work, but don't necessarily give the result I was hoping for. I, too, am staying for the kids. I'm often sad, and way too familiar with that hollow feeling.

[Whatthehey]

1foot,

The grey rock tool works in that I don't get pulled into an argument.  I feel some small measure of control.  But I walk away and the guilt and regret of the time invested settles on me like my own rock.

The hollow feeling is still with me.  The divorce isn't settled yet.  I don't really feel like I have permission to move on by society/rules.  I too share children so there is the constant shuttling and game side avoidance issues.  I can only imagine what the holidays will be like.  I just feel like all of me has been sucked out and stomped on by him.  I feel like a shadow or very thin version of myself - like people can see through me.

This has been a tough week of just getting up and moving on.   Only the thought that this too will pass has kept me going.  I hope you can find that as well.