"Wants not need" - thank you to the person who pointed that out!

[p123]

Will always remember that. Its made a huge difference to me.....
For years dad would snap his fingers and I'd jump. I put him before my family and he loved it.....

Last few years I stopped and he hates it.
He still tries every trick in the book to get me to do what he wants. He tried to manipulate my wife to act like he wanted her to do - she no longer speaks to him (and I can't say I blame her). He hates it that she doesn't obey him.

I could see todays conversation coming. Hes 87, lives alone, but is in decent health. When I think about his NEEDS he pretty much has ZERO. He dresses and washes himself - no problem. He feeds himself- no problem with the assitance of "meals on wheels". He can get around - pretty good for an 87 year old.

So back to my story. So tonight "I'm really struggling I need you and you're brother to look after me a bit better".
Eh? For one, I can't remember every volunteering or agreeing to be you're carer and, two, you DON'T NEED A CARER!

We've had this conversation about 10 times how I will do what I can but I've got my own family. BUT he hates it that hes not NUMERO UNO (and 2 and 3).

So remembering the needs and wants. "What do you really NEED Dad?" Silence.

"Dad we've had this conversation before - I have family to look after too?"
"Yes but they need to understand" (Not the first time hes rolled out this bad boy - yes but I'm the most important and you should know it. You're family are not as important as me.....

"No Dad I've told you how things work" Silence.

He sulked a bit. "Oh well I guess if no-one will look after me I'll have to go and live in a Home" He means residential home. To be honest would suit him but hes got this idea in his head that bad sons and daughter send their parents to place like this to die.

"OK let me know and I'll look into it for you". Silence.

So pleased. I would NEVER have done this years ago. I'd have let him walk all over me.
Years ago the way things were heading I'd be divorced now but he didn't seem to care.

Now I'm just embarrassed for him that he acts this way. Its just awful to be honest....

[doglady]

"OK let me know and I'll look into it for you". Silence.

Nice one, p123. Keep up the good work!

[p123]

Alas he wont give up - hes like a dog with a bone.

He is CONVINCED that he needs to be looked after and that SOMEONE has to do it. He'll never give up on that!

[Poison Ivy]

Congratulations on the good response to your dad, p123!

[Sneezy]

p123 - Good for you, that was a great answer!!!

I use something similar on my mom.  When she refuses to use her walker, I just tell her that I am not a nurse and I am not strong enough to lift her and if she falls and breaks something, she will have to go to rehab and then a nursing home.  That usually gets her to use her walker.  It's not that we don't care or that we want our parents to suffer.  But very few of us are willing or capable to take on full-time senior care.  I'm certainly not.

[Cat of the Canals]

"OK let me know and I'll look into it for you". Silence.

So pleased. I would NEVER have done this years ago. I'd have let him walk all over me.

I literally cheered out loud when I read this. Bravo!!!

[Sidney37]

Great job, P123!  Way to set boundaries and stand up for yourself!   

[lkdrymom]

"OK let me know and I'll look into it for you". Silence.

So pleased. I would NEVER have done this years ago. I'd have let him walk all over me.

I literally cheered out loud when I read this. Bravo!!!

SO true this was the perfect answer.  You have to jump on these opportunities when you can.  It is all about wants v. needs.  I don't think any of us are unwilling to help with a NEED, it is the constant 'wants' that get to be too much.  My father could never understand why I would not leave work to reprogram his tv remote (that I Freaking reprogrammed just a few days ago).  That was a want....he could easily get up and change the channel or use the tv in his bedroom. He didn't see it that way but oh well.  Now he casually mentions how his arm is numb...I was there in 10 minutes to run him to the hospital.

[p123]

"OK let me know and I'll look into it for you". Silence.

So pleased. I would NEVER have done this years ago. I'd have let him walk all over me.

I literally cheered out loud when I read this. Bravo!!!

SO true this was the perfect answer.  You have to jump on these opportunities when you can.  It is all about wants v. needs.  I don't think any of us are unwilling to help with a NEED, it is the constant 'wants' that get to be too much.  My father could never understand why I would not leave work to reprogram his tv remote (that I Freaking reprogrammed just a few days ago).  That was a want....he could easily get up and change the channel or use the tv in his bedroom. He didn't see it that way but oh well.  Now he casually mentions how his arm is numb...I was there in 10 minutes to run him to the hospital.

EXACTLY...... I live 20+ miles away from Dad so I dont want to run over there every day....

In his head, hes old so everyone needs to understand that he NEEDS HELP. Or so he often says. Which in reality means he wants me to neglect my kids and family because HE IS TOO LAZY to think about it himself.

his current thing is telling me all his health problems then "What do you think?". Well, I think there is NOT A LOT wrong with you but I just say "Dunno Im not a doctor, phone them".

I used to feel sorry for his doctor. He hassled them constantly. In the end, the senior partner did call him and nicely tell him to stop ringing all the time. He stopped for a while (was massively put out - "its their job") but hes off full tilt again. Now I think of the doctors "well hes got a history of this, you know that, so YOU tell him". He wont listen to me anyway....
If they can't be bothered to put their put down then they have to deal with his calls not me.

[Hazy111]

Its narc supply as you are well aware. Its not laziness or anything else.   Get it from the doctors , you,  whoever. It never leaves, its a constant. Attention. It may stop for a while , then it starts up again. Because the craving is always there. Without it they , they shrivel up and die.

[Andeza]

Mhmm, Hazy is totally right. I find it helpful to think of them as addicts. I'm certain research in years to come will find that narcs and other PDs trigger the same receptors in the brain as heroin addicts, just without a drug and through attention instead.

I like that you threw back the home comment to him, p123. Just like with toddlers, stay consistent. I know you know that game since you've got two kids.

[1footouttadefog]

Mhmm, Hazy is totally right. I find it helpful to think of them as addicts. I'm certain research in years to come will find that narcs and other PDs trigger the same receptors in the brain as heroin addicts, just without a drug and through attention instead.

I like that you threw back the home comment to him, p123. Just like with toddlers, stay consistent. I know you know that game since you've got two kids.

I totally agree, it's about an addictive feedback loop of some sort.   Brain chemistry. 

[Hazy111]

My father used to ring me every single day without fail for years . He did this AFTER my mother died . He needed his (supply)  fix.  He wasnt the slightest bit interested in me previous to this, as his  fix  came from his job, marriage and drinking cronies. 

[Sneezy]

I totally agree, it's about an addictive feedback loop of some sort.   Brain chemistry.

After my mom moved near me, I talked to a therapist about her behavior.  Of course, he's never met my mom and so couldn't diagnose her.  But I found his theory about her behavior very interesting.  He thinks my mom was likely born just a little more anxious than most people.  Nothing huge.  Just a tiny bit more natural anxiety.  As she grew, she looked for reasons to justify her anxiety.  And when there was a legitimate reason to be anxious, it reinforced her naturally higher level of anxiety.  Given enough time, she eventually became driven by and consumed by anxiety.  She felt, and continues to feel, like no one really loves her.  And so she isn't sure she deserves love.  The worst thing for her is to be alone with her own thoughts, because she beats herself up as being unlovable.  For me, that means I see a mother who is insecure, miserable, in need of constant attention and entertainment.  She can't stand to be alone and so she demands that I entertain her.  She can't abide being wrong or making a mistake, so she lies and gaslights.  She is insecure and so she is mean and nasty to others.  She is a martyr and suffers because someday she hopes we will all realize how she suffered more than anyone else.  And on and on.  You all know this story.

Brain chemistry.  Minor differences in the brains of our parents with PDs that manifest themselves in big ways.  I wish there was more research on these topics.  I would love to learn more.  Although in the end, we can't change someone else's brain.  All we can do (hopefully) is control how our brain reacts.

[Sidney37]

Sneezy
We see something very similar in my PDm.  She searches for things to explain her heightened anxiety.  She can't accept that it's internal.  It has to be something external. 

If everyone around is jumping through hoops and doing exactly what she wants and she still feels anxious, she can't understand it.  If there are no terrorist attacks, diseases, upcoming car trips or possible job conflicts to explain her anxiety, she can't understand why she's feeling it.   So, in order to justify the anxiety she is feeling, she wouldn pick on and provoke my father or me until we snapped back at her and then she blamed her internal anxiety on one of us being mean to her.   That explained it in her head.  So every time she felt anxious, she picked on us until we couldn't  take anymore and then we'd say something a little snippy or really snap at her.   This made medium chill hard because if we didn't react, she'd keep upping her snide remarks and provocation until we finally did get upset.  Sometimes it took weeks, but you can't ignore everything indefinitely without it getting to you.   

[Hazy111]

Sneezy/Sydney37 , what you are describing is classical Borderline behavior (  basically the female narcissist plus other stuff) Its all covered by "Understanding the Borderline Mother" by Christine Lawson. I dont know if youve read it . Its got glowing reviews on this site. She names 4 basic types.

The point you mention about altered brain chemistry is interesting , as its covered in the book. Its due to chronic trauma in early childhood ( it may well have begun in the womb) and the effects of stress hormones on the body especially  the brain (the amygdala in particular)  . Many are left in a state of heightened anxiety throughout their lives in a constant state of "fight or flight" and can be easily triggered by everyday events that for others are molehills and are tuned into mountains.

This unfortunately was mom. An uBPD "hermit type (paranoid) " i believe, who as she got older got worse and worse.

Christine Lawsons states the that no one really can appreciate the state of fear and anxiety the hermit lives under. She created drama where none existed and exacerbated stuff that could have been contained. She refused any type of drug that may may have relieved her symptoms. A simple car journey was a traumatic event for her.  These effects had a dramatic impact on her physical health.

There is also the BPD personality ( again formed in early childhood) which is another driver of the anxiety and unfortunately many of these people seek or create "drama" where none exists, as this is what they experienced and are used to and comfortable with. Its also a ready form of "narcissistic supply" , basically any form of attention, which they constantly crave.   

[p123]

He really is very hard to deal with at the moment - its constant.

It was my eldest sons 18th birthday this week. Hes got Aspergers and is very very shy, its been a tough time for him. Speaking on the phone to a stranger (his grandfather who has no interest in him) is never going to happen ever ever.

In the past, I've explained to Dad, its not him being rude, its what he finds difficult. Of course Dads answer is "well there was no such thing as this silly autism when I was younger. Its all made up". Yeh cheers Dad.

So he didn't even get him a card, got me to get him one on his behalf (nice one!). Then put £20 in the card (about $27). Hmmm. Great when you've got £40K in the bank.... His Gran (who has zero in the bank gave him £100). But thats a different subject....

So hes on at me now. "X hasnt even phoned me to thank me for the money". Once again the same conversation. Pretty sick of his "views" now and it all having to be about him. Think hes thinking that £20 at least buys him some narc supply....