Gaslighting

[Hilltop]

I'm working through problems with my own dysfunctional family.  My inlaws are also dysfunctional and I am VVVVLC with them.  Dh appears to be the GC.  We are married and due to our families there has been ongoing stress however I thought our marriage was ok until I started reading about narcissistic families and started noticing behaviors in my DH which is really concerning me.

He does things but denies doing them.  The most recent example is the tyre pressure in my car.  He inflated my tyres on day and it seemed wrong so I checked it and there was 10psi difference between the front and back tyres so I fixed it.  Yesterday I took my car out and the two front tyres are again 10 psi below the rear.  This was after DH had borrowed my car.  He understands vehicles better than I do so this wouldn't be a simple mistake.  I don't believe my two front tyres have somehow dropped that much air in a couple of weeks but the back tyres haven't dropped any air.

A while back I told him I needed paperwork for work.  I checked it and it was there however when I went to get it later on it was missing.  However I had a copy of one of the documents which I didn't tell DH about.  I told him it was fine I was only missing one document and work said it wasn't a problem and he  looked confused.  When I told him I was relieved it wasn't a problem he turned up with the paperwork and said he had taken it into work to scan for some VISA's we had previously been applying for however his documents which were also required were still at home and the VISA thing was a couple of years ago and I recently saw the paperwork in the drawer.

Also a while back he wanted me to wear my Fitbit. He kept going on about it so I said I would look for it later.  When I looked for it, it was missing.  I went through every draw taking everything out, I almost thought of videoing it because I had a feeling he would miraculously turn up with it, guess what, he found it.  When I asked him where it had been he said he found it in a draw which I know I had looked through thoroughly.  I had taken everything out of that drawer and it was a drawer that I never use, I had spent the day checking every single drawer in the house.

The clock I loved suddenly stopped working, it wasn't until I said I was over it and it was just a clock and that I'd just get another one that he worked out how to fix it and it's now working.

He has at times baited me such as the last holiday we went on, a couple of days before flying out he flew into a rage as I took my phone into the bathroom so he decided I was doing something wrong, having an affair.  He said it was over, that he wasn't going on holiday, it was so stressful.  Then he came around and went on the holiday.

Most of the time the relationship is good however I don't know if I am imagining this or whether there is any hope.  Part of the stress with his family is that he never stood up for me with them. I am not sure a marriage can survive if there is this level of gaslighting.  Has anyone been through this?  I thought I was just healing from my FOO but it seems I married into it as well.  I'm now being hypervigilant because if I'm not imagining this, I don't think I can live with it.

[helpmeplease]

Oh yes, i have been through this sort of thing many times. You are not imagining it. My ex who did not live with me, but used to stay each weekend used to steal my spoons and knives, took a cup, he used to break my computer, spill things, he would deliberately leave the fridge door open overnight when I had medication in there, he would leave the iron switched on on the bench etc. It was like a weird punishing passive aggressive game to him. He enjoyed seeing my reactions. I am sure he got off on it. His favourite trick was to walk off and leave me when we were out or walk miles ahead of me very fast leaving me unable to keep up with him because I couldn't walk very well or fast. All this and the usual lies push pull manipulation and confusion. I spent years feeling as if I was crazy and worthless and not good enough. I blamed myself because I didn't know any better. I kept trying and trying to put things right, it never worked because it wasn't me it was him. 

[SparkStillLit]

Updh has absolutely done stuff like this. He has hidden things (and then actually LOST some of the stuff he's hidden) and done other weird things, put stuff where it doesn't belong at ALL and the like. I have learned not to say a WORD and normally I can find things, or I replace them, or I make do. I document and do all manner of things that regular folks would never DREAM of, to avoid this gaslighting crap.
In about the middle of the relationship, in my thirties or so, I was horribly gaslighted and believed a lot of absolute bullsh*t he had going. Now in my late 40s I'm realizing more and more that it's absolute crap, and I won't have a single bit of it. I'm slowly getting it out of my head, and certainly not letting more in.

[helpmeplease]

Cruel and sick are the words that come to mind today  when I think of how he manipulated and tortured me. Evil.

[helpmeplease]

He used to deny he was walking fast, making me cry and be stressed and panicky trying to keep up, begging him to slow down, begging him to wait, shouting his name down the street. I used to think there was something wrong with him, that he simply didn't understand what he was doing, that he had learning difficulties or something. No. He knew exactly what he was doing.

[tragedy or hope]

My unpdh is notorious for creating a crisis, trying to get me involved, then having a solution. It is so easy to identify. I see it coming. I don't react... he doesn't know what to do. I identify a simple solution when his plan was chaotic. I then walk away.

He loves telling me he did not say what he said. OR, that I said something I did not say. He also says we agreed on something we did not agree on... I stand my ground. He gets childish.. it goes on.

He likes to drop little hints of things that might distress me, he knows my buttons. I try to stay aware. anything unusual coming from him may have a twist to it. N's are predictable in that they are looking for certain things from us. It's a game. Personal upset at their bidding is a big one. I see his disorder as a handicap.

I try to remember his mind does not work like mine. I also live as independent as possible from his involvement. I will not allow him to know or participate in parts of my life for my own sanity. I can love him, but it will be on my terms, not forced, manipulated or pressured.

This frees me up to see his odd behaviors. You are not alone.

[Hilltop]

Thanks everyone.  I'm working through issues from PD FOO and I'm reading a lot of books at the moment.  I feel a little confused and overwhelmed.

I checked the tyres again and they are both 5 psi down again and DH couldn't have done it so now I'm not sure.  I'll get them checked out properly I think.  Although I feel 80% on the other things it may not be how I've perceive it for eg I could have seen the copy of the document rather than the original.  Now I just feel like I'm beginning crazy,  I think at the moment I'm so tired and worn out by my parents that I'm overwhelmed by it all.

I've read so much that I think I need to stop and just give myself a breather.  I plan on observing all my relationships.  Now that I have given myself a break from my parents I am interested to see if I feel better over the coming months.  Having my parents constantly around me has just worn me down.   I have read that when your eyes are opened you can't unsee it, so I am just going to continue distancing myself from my FOO and just observe my other relationships.  I think over time it will become obvious.  I mean with the inlaws and my own FOO the behaviors were noticeable, I'm just not sure about Dh, he isn't perfect, neither am I and I'm worried that I've read so many times that children from PD families have some traits that I'm just getting confused with what I am seeing.  Ugh anyway thank you so much for your support, its not easy.

[GettingOOTF]

Wow you have described my marriage. I could write a book on the things like this that my ex did. At some point in the marriage he started using them against me as proof that I was "stressed". He'd claim to be worried about me and insist that I stay home when we'd had plans to go out. I'd feel crazy so I'd agree to stay home. I'd also agree to let him take care of things as I kept losing important documents and just couldn't be responsible.

Most people wouldn't believe that things he did. It's so hard to look back on that time and to see how manipulated and  controlled I was by him.

Tuned out he was cheating and used those times I stayed home to meet up with other women, he'd tell his friends lies about why I was never out with him, I stopped seeing people and became isolated. He used his control of the things he took over because I kept losing documents etc. to run up so much debt and spend all our cash.

It is unbelievable the lengths they go to with this stuff. Do not underestimate what he is capable of, or the danger you could be in.

[GettingOOTF]

My ex also used to the the walking in front of me very fast. I'd often lose him when we were out. It was so stressful.

[helpmeplease]

Just remembering one of the lies he told me. He said he couldn't move in with me because he had no money. One day he accidentally left his cheque book at my house. I thought nothing of it just put it to one side for when he came back. I then received a panicked  phone call saying "don't look at the cheque book! don't look at the cheque book!" So obviously curiosity aroused I looked and saw he had £11,000 in the bank. He had been working out his spends on the stubs.  Now I am thankful that he never did move in with me.
When I first met him he said he was 31. For years I thought this was his actual age. Then I discovered he was only 29 when I met him. I have never ever got to the bottom of that one.

[Lauren17]

Hilltop, I have experienced all of this.
Your story with the Fitbit? UBPDh did that with my wedding ring!! Even then, deep in the fog, I knew he'd moved it. When I asked he had no idea. He finally  brought it back when I was in a panic, had moved all the furniture and was considering tugging up the carpeting. Now he denies ever having done that.
Somethings wrong with the car? It mysteriously disappears when H drives it.
I planted a shrubbery years ago, that H ranted about hating for years. When I finally said it was ok to tear it out, he looked surprised. I haven't heard a peep about it since.
Like you, I find some things that I think are gaslighting that aren't and I begin to doubt myself. That's part of the crazy making.
Please, please trust your gut. It knows when something is off.

[1footouttadefog]

I lived through such gaslighting.  Had such a low opinion of myself, I was always doubting myself.  I am ADD so ot was easy. 

I realized after decades I had been gaslighted and often undermined and sabotaged.  Overtime more and more things came into the picture.

My pdh never stood up for me to his family.

[GettingOOTF]

I  needed a visa to work where I am. It took almost a year to come through. I was offered multiple jobs all paying well. When I finally got my visa I picked one. The night before I was due to start I couldn’t find my visa. It has been in a bowl on this built in cabinet In the living room. I searched everywhere for it. I was really upset as I was excited to get back to work. My ex also helped me look. We turned the place upside down. The living room had this weird door that wasn’t necessary so it was always open but it didn’t open all the way so there was a large gap behind it that you could see in to. I eventually found the visa exactly under the door. It was the size of a credit card so almost the same width as the door. At the time my ex said that the cats must have knocked it off which I accepted.

Years later I realize he must have hid it. The cats never knocked things off, there’s no way they got it out of the bowl that had other stuff in it and then placed it exactly under the door so it couldn’t be seen. My ex was looking for a job too and not having the success I was. I think he was jealous and tried to sabotage me.

He would hide the keys before we went out. I’d look everywhere and be so upset as I swore I’d put them in the bowl by the door. He’d ask me if I’d looked in the bowl and I’d say “of course!”  We’d search and search and then he’d find the keys in the bowl. I’d swear I’d looked in the bowl. He’d act all concerned about how “stressed” I was and insist that I stay home to rest. I’d feel crazy at that point so agree with him. This would happen most often when we were off to do something I wanted to do but also when we had plans with others. He’d tell people I was “sick”. All his friends thought I was sickly and unstable.

If I went out with friends of my own he’d join us claiming he’d “was walking by and just wanted to say hi”. When I’d get home he’d start on at all the awful things I’d said to my fiends about him while he was there. This would go on for hours when I had to get up to go to work. In the end I’d apologize to him as he was so convincing I’d believe him. I eventually stopped going out with others as it wasn’t worth the fights afterwards.

We had a nice photo of us which I liked. He complained about it all the time. Said we’d had a terrible fight that day, that the whole day was ruined and he was so upset. We didn’t have a fight at all. His mother was in town and we spent the day with her. It was actually a nice day. Eventually I threw out the photo.

There were just so many of these types of things. I really felt like I was losing my mind. I thought I couldn’t do anything for myself and that people hatred me or only spoke to me because they were “being polite”. I stopped speaking to other people.  Once at work someone I worked closely with asked me if I had any children. I’d been there 9 years at that point. I only discussed work at work. Nothing about myself of anything else until after I’d left my ex. People who saw and worked with me every day for years didn’t even know the most basic things about me because I was too scared to open my mouth and show them how awful I really was.

People really underestimate the damage that gaslighting does to someone. It’s such a manipulative, insidious and abusive behavior. My personal view is that this is the number one indicator of abuse and that there is no “cure”. If a friend described any gaslighting behavior I’d tell them to run. These people get pleasure out of manipulating, controlling and tearing you down. It’s hard to understand as you would never do that to another person which is largely how they get away with it.

I believed every single thing my ex told me about myself not because he was some master manipulator but because I had no self esteem and looked to others more then I looked to myself for validation. I had no idea who I was so I let other people tell me who I was. Because of my low self esteem and codependency I sought out men who told me the worst things about myself that I believed deep down because that’s what I’d heard all my life.

Abuse doesn’t exist in a vacuum, it doesn’t just “happen”.  I no longer hate my ex as I see now that if I hadn’t married him I would have married a man just like him, and there are plenty of them out there to choose from.

[Medowynd]

I suggest keeping a running log of incidences that appear to be gaslighting.  That way you have something concrete to refer to, when you think you are losing it.  My current husband has some narc tendencies and I am always amazed that he claims that "I never said that" or "I never told you that."  I finally started texting him and the accusations have dropped off.  But he does continue to tell other people about things that I never said or done, as a point of embarrassment.  He doesn't seem to realize that he ends up looking foolish.  I stopped defending myself long ago and let his foolishness speak for itself.

[blew]

The "fast walking" thing is something my SO has done for years. I never attributed to anything other than a personal quirk -- but now I wonder.  They also almost always leave the front door ahead of me and almost race to the car, while I'm still locking the door.  Then they stand by the car, impatiently holding the door latch while I struggle to push the button on the fob.  In a normal world, I would think a person would wait and you'd walk to the car together.  Am I wrong?  Sometimes reading stuff here just amazes me!  All of these odd behaviors, that I've dealt with for years, start to come into focus.

[SparkStillLit]

Hands ME the key fob, though HE always drives. I'm always the last person out the door, with the house keys. Waits by the car with the irritation just ROLLING off him.
Why on earth do I accept the key fob???? No more of that!!!!! (Next he'll be revving the engine 😆😆😆😆)

[tragedy or hope]

serious gaslighting
He throws a fit but it was me who caused it all to happen. If I had just not said what I said, none of his acting out would have happened. He had to behave that way to show me that I am wrong. If only I did not say what I said. he would not have had to rage and act a fool. On and on... Not that he admits acting badly in fact, sternly; he says it was ME who acted badly.  in my estimation I revealed his true self to him which never ends up good for me.

Even days later if there is any discussion that comes up around the issue, he goes back to the somewhat demonic tone, (voice full of hostility) as if to say, I am not out of the woods with him over it. He tries to be intimidating. You know I don't care anymore. All I see is crazy. I just have to adjust for my own well being to stay distant till this mood swing passes, usually within a week or so.

I use MC and JADE to deal with it. It is SO obvious when he gets like that. I haven't been here a year on this site and I am becoming more and more aware of the mental illness.
Sneaky it is... pops up after many good days, but when the gaslighting starts it is like a movie I have seen over and over again. I am not responsible for his discomfort in his own skin, nor am I to blame for his bad behavior.

I actually used to self examine. HA! Waste of time.  Now I know it is him. I still get sucked into it sometimes because his methods are diabolical and suddenly a button I am not protecting in my soul is pushed. But I am learning.

It's never his fault, he is never wrong, he is the most wonderful husband in the world, he loves me more, treats me better etc. than I do him. On and on... gaslighting; an art used by the insane to drag us down with them.  Once awareness comes, it is very easy to recognize.

[Hilltop]

Thanks everyone.  One thing I know for sure is that I won't stay in the marriage if the gaslighting becomes obvious.  I may still be in the fog now but I do believe that once you awaken to this type of stuff its easier to see, so the next few months are going to be interesting.  At the moment things are peaceful and good so I feel silly for posting.  However I also know that the good times can only go for so long before something happens as shown by PDMIL.

I am now keeping a log and journal of things, I think that's a great idea Medowynd as the first thing I start to do is doubt myself. 

[SparkStillLit]

I think PDs go as far as they think they can, until you notice stuff, then they pull back. Good for you, documenting. Keep it secret.
I bet it starts to creep back in, as he tests the waters again.
I've got another one. I turn on my bedside google mini and have it play soothing sounds. You can control it from your phone, any of them in the house, and I'm pretty damn sure he's shutting it off periodically while I'm sleeping, and it's not some bizarre google failure. It goes in waves, like inexplicably this will happen several days in a row, at different times (but only after I'm asleep), then stop. I haven't said a word nor restarted it the last 3 times. I'm hoping it "goes away", because it wakes me.

[Matteblak]

You guys have opened my eyes! My wife would wake me up right after I went to sleep if I fell asleep first. She said she heard noises or that someone was outside the house. nobody EVER was, but she would do it 2-3 times right after I fell asleep. Never thought of that as gaslighting! thank you so much for sharing your examples. It's weird to have so many people who actually get this stuff. have felt so alone.