Christmas with family - dealing with brother

[JollyJazz]

Hi All,

Feeling a bit deflated.
I'm low contact with FOO, but I'm visiting them for Christmas.

Anyway, I'm working (remotely) in another room and just wanted some quietness (and I was talking to my colleagues online). My upd brother talks in a very loud, booming voice that you can hear all over the house.

I summed up my courage and as politely ask possibly could asked if everyone could please be quieter as I was talking to my colleagues.
Anyway, my brother laughed at this (?!) but then just started giving me the silent treatment. At least he was quiet! But I also feel bad for asking for this. I often feel bad about asking for things, setting boundaries. I wonder if I'm out of line. My head tells me it should be okay to set boundaries, ask for things but I just feel bad for doing this.

I always end up feeling bad...

Gosh, what happens in a normal family if someone asked for a bit of quiet? I am just feeling sad and heavy. Any perspective is good 😊

[September1234]

JollyJazz, I don’t think you were out of line. Common curtesy should be present in family, but alas, for most of us it is not. I’m sorry that you’re feeling this way, I’ve gone through the whole train ride of whether I’m too sensitive and asking too much, as well.
I’m also worrying about the whole Christmas with family and how will I handle being next to my brother 24/7 in the same place.
I don’t have much advice on how to get better at this, I still go through the whole emotions of guilt and fear. But I hope you’ve managed to feel better or find someplace to cool down.

I hope this helps. Sending you support in any case.

[JollyJazz]

Hi September 1234,
Thanks so much, yes that does help 😊
I'm just feeling heavy and a bit sad.
I just get confused. I want to have good relationships with my family, I don't know.
Anyway, I'm going back to the city I work in tonight.
I know I have trouble asking for things and setting boundaries.
Anyway, best wishes for your Christmas! There's nothing easy about it is there?

This has actually been my family Christmas, I'm going to the forest for a month after this.
I hope to heal myself up a bit and get a bit happier. I've been struggling a lot lately!
Thank you for your help and support ☺️

[bloomie]

JollyJaz - silent treatment (or silent treat... ) is not a usual response within a family when one family member politely asks for common courtesy of people lowering their voices when one is working from a shared dwelling. You were right to speak up and then possibly negotiate a solution that works for most if needed.

That's what adults do. They share. They consider others in equal regard to themselves. They work it through when there is an issue. They figure things out for the greater good and they don't even have to always agree, but they find solutions and do not punish someone for having a need and voicing it.

I hope your month in the forest is a time of respite and peace! Sounds wonderful!

[JollyJazz]

Hi Bloomie,

JollyJaz - silent treatment (or silent treat... )

Hehe, thanks for the giggle!
That's true! I guess I'm used to this tightrope dance in my FOO, and asking for things isn't part of it of course.

Thanks for the validation and support. I'm feeling a bit sad now, but I'll bounce back! ☺️

[September1234]

JollyJazz, I think it's like Bloomie said: that they're supposed to be adults and not act childish (such as the remarks you talked about). I don't think they got the memo (if it's ok to say...). I always thought to myself how childish and completely exaggerated my brother acted/acts (even when he is well in his 20s). I hope you're able to retreat in the forest, away from all this. Sending you a hug and support as always

[Hepatica]

JollyJazz,

If I compare my FOO to my current FOC I get two completely different responses to boundaries. If I had asked my uNPD mother for instance to quiet down because I was speaking to someone, she'd yell even louder, "WELL EXCUSE ME!" frown and stomp around. And then yes, I'd be terrified to set boundaries with her in future. She cannot stand someone daring to tell her, the Queen of the World, what to do. She has no sense of other people's needs. In fact, other people are not allowed to have needs in her mind. Only her.

Now, in my FOC, if I asked my Dh (who is thoughtful and kind) to quiet down, he'd probably nod effusively and be very very quiet until the call was over. He wouldn't pout and he would definitely not hold a grudge and punish me with the silent treatment.

I think feeling bad is what someone who gives us the silent treatment wants us to feel. It sort of trains us to be nervous to set boundaries because we know the pattern, we're gonna get punished. It sucks. And after awhile it backfires for them, because we don't really want to be around people who try to make us feel bad.

I love your plan to go to the forest. What a beautiful place of quiet and restoration to release the negative energy that your brother created. Nature restores me every time.

[DistanceNotDefense]

I summed up my courage and as politely ask possibly could asked if everyone could please be quieter as I was talking to my colleagues.
Anyway, my brother laughed at this (?!) but then just started giving me the silent treatment. At least he was quiet! But I also feel bad for asking for this. I often feel bad about asking for things, setting boundaries. I wonder if I'm out of line. My head tells me it should be okay to set boundaries, ask for things but I just feel bad for doing this.

Just wanted to throw this in quick, JollyJazz, to help bring things into perspective: the Silence Treatment qualifies as a tactic of emotional abuse.

When your brother does this, he is abusing you. Literally!

By being a bully and then shutting you out, he is asserting that he can do and say whatever he wants regardless of how people feel. In a nutshell: he reserves the right to hurt people. He can make you feel scared and small and invisible for communicating really basic needs and expecting respect...but *everyone* has a right to do that without being punished for it.

For people who don't realize this is emotional abuse, they are made to feel like it was wrong to speak out, and they direct hurt against themselves in the form of guilt and shame. That guilt and shame should have been felt by the Silent Treater, but these personalities can't even feel a smidgeon of guilt or accountability (even over the tiniest thing, like speaking quieter) because they are so fragile, and they throw any accountability back in our faces.

It is a hurtful and abusive action, what he did. You have the right to speak out about something that it wouldn't hurt your brother to change, even if just for a moment, without feeling any guilt whatsoever.

[nanotech]

He's emotionally abusing you and on top of that immense hurt, he's calling HIMSELF the victim.
He was being loud. You merely asked him to  nicely, to quieten down while you dealt with a call from colleagues.
Our son worked from home for a while.  A couple of times I forgot and shouted up the stairs something to hubby- hubby answering ( lol!)
Our son appeared and reminded us to quieten down as he was speaking to colleagues. We did not give him the silent  treatment. No drama on either side.

Your brother laughing, is saying ' You're not important! I'm the only important one in the family!  Also,
' You're not independent with a separate social/ work circle of people who like and respect you! Who DO you think YOU are?'

It's all to try snd bash your self esteem.

The silent treatment is to project HIS OWN BEHAVIOUR on to you it's says,
' You've been so overbearing and rude! I'm 'hurt' so I'll punish you and you must feel bad!'
All that drama. 

Silent treatment is a sarcastic response to a boundary. However, if he ever tries it again, just failing to notice it it is utter Kryptonite to it.
And just never feel guilty. You've done nothing wrong. And well done for setting that boundary. He's hoping these tactics will make you stop using them in the future. Keep placing them and eventually - they have to accept every last one.

[JollyJazz]

Hi Nanotech, Distancenotdefence, Hepatica, September1234,

Thanks so much for your validating replies! I really appreciate it!

I'm away now and kind of recovering. I feel sad in some ways but at the end of the day I know it's okay to set boundaries 😊 thanks again though, that validation when the self doubt and sadness starts creeping in really really helps!

[SparkStillLit]

It's updh who does/did it (not so much anymore), but I LOVE IT when he has a fit and does the silent "treat"! I used to hate it so bad and be so upset with it, but NOW???
HA! Crank up the happy music!! Binge watch my favorite shows!!! Putter unbothered in the kitchen!!! Read entire novels uninterrupted!!!! Walk!! Run!!! Kayak!!! Shop!!! (Ok maybe pre covid, that shopping bit. MAAAAYYYYYBE I buy expensive makeup online now. He can stuff it.)
Bring it ON!!!

[sandpiper]

FWIW I think that making excess noise and talking loudly or aggressively is a thing that some PDs will do in order to throw their weight around. It's hard to call them on it because 'it's just who they are'.
I used to hate having BIL here to stay because his voice triggers me. He's loud, he has an aggressive and entitled tone and I find it exhausting to have to listen to him. He is a heavy drinker and when people drink they get louder - alcohol suppresses the 8th cranial nerve which is the one that supplies hearing. I can't sleep when he is in the house because there is nowhere to go where I can block out that noise, even with ear plugs or noise-cancelling headphones.
A few weeks ago I stayed with Family of Choice. I went to bed while the three other people in the household sat up to work on a jigsaw puzzle together and to drink tea & enjoy each other's company. I was in the next room and I didn't hear a thing.
Speaking loudly and aggressively is a strategy for intimidation and it sounds like your brother isn't accustomed to being called out on it. In this day and age of Zoom meetings and WFH you'd think he'd have figured it out by now.
It shows you the level of entitlement that your brother can't do this.