Love bombing?

[Matteblak]

Before I knew that what I was dealing with was PD, I used to be so excited when my wife would hand out the little nuggets of physical (and/or emotional) attention that she would (started out daily, then weekly, then monthly, lately we're at 5-6 times a year). So I've spent 8 months learning about PD and narrowing down what I'm possibly dealing with...then today...she offered to give me a back rub and every fire alarm in my head went off. It seemed so out of place and odd and I have this dread that it will cost me in terms of "how could you do this to me after I gave you a back rub" or worse, her just making up stuff that I did/said afterward, and then telling me that tis the reason she never does things like that and likely won't for a long time. It's like its the whole things is the setup for a long drought. Am I alone in being suspicious, having the hair on my neck stand up, thinking "what's the catch?" How do you handle this? It feels "darned if I do and darned if I don't." Thoughts, advice?

[SparkStillLit]

I'm sure this is a setup. I just accept whatever niceness with NO expectations that: it's a new leaf, they have seen the error of their ways, it's an apology, etc. It's just a blip in the code, and it very likely has strings. I consider myself under no obligation to deal with the strings. I just medium chill out of those.
You could turn it down because of strings. Whatever you feel like you can deal with. If it's too triggery for you, don't participate.
What did I say before? Something to the effect of all the games are ones you won't win. You don't need to play.

[notrightinthehead]

 

Maybe you have changed your behaviour towards your wife a bit. Consequently she will change her behaviour. When the strings come you will get a perfect opportunity to practise your newly learned skills, medium chill, non JADE, and grey rock, as well as mindfulness to keep you on an emotionally even keel.

[Matteblak]

Thank you to both sparskstilllit and notrightinthehead. It is good to see familiar names.

I'm still blaming myself a lot and second guessing everything. I thought that "knowing" would just "fix" it in my head and I would think more rightly, but realizing I have a long way to go. Counselor used the word "codependent" with me for the first time.

Encouraged and sad at the same time. It's embarrassing to realize that I let myself go through this for 15+ years (even though I know that is not exactly how it goes).

I'm 8-10 months in...How long has it taken some of you to forgive yourselves? Or at least to stop blaming yourself?

[GettingOOTF]

If someone was abusing and withholding 100% of the time no one would be with them so they throw around crumbs of affection and niceness to keep others off balance and in the FOG, to keep them hoping that their "true" partner is coming back. That thing is that the abuse is the true partner, the "nice" parts are what they use to get us to accept the abuse.

I am a long time out of my abusive marriage to someone with a formally diagnosed PD and I have spent that time mostly working on my own issues. I see now how little I accepted and how grateful I was for it. 

We all make our own decisions about what is acceptable to us and what we want and need from a partnership.  For me now I weigh the "nice" against the rest of the behavior. "How many months of PD abuse and chaos is one back rub worth?"  is a calculation she's likely already made. Our partners know is very well. My ex knew me better than I knew misled. They know how to keep us where they want us.

[pianissimo]

I have a similar reaction to my mother when she shows affection. Even before I knew about personality disorders, something about my mother's way of showing love would ring the alarm bells in my head. I refuse any act of love that seems insincere to me. When I visit home, I don't let her do anything for me. I try to keep the conversations short and I stick to small talk. Sometimes, she refers to me as "sweetheart", or "dear", or those kinds of pet names, and I tell her that I don't like it when she speaks to me that way. I didn't know why until a few weeks ago. The thing I didn't understand was, I knew that my mum doesn't love me that way, we have never had that kind of connection, and I am now at a point where I'm OK with it. So, before I knew about NPD, I didn't understand why she was speaking to me as if we have any kind of closeness or intimacy. Like, why not get real?  I think that's what makes it love-bombing. It's not real, it's out of place, it doesn't match the depth or nature of the relationship, or it feels too much. That's the way I understand it.

In the past, I think I would be confused because I wouldn't be sure if I was refusing her "love" because I'm angry with her or if it's because I doubt her love for me. Since the anger got out of the equation, I have come to a better emotional place to judge her actions.

The other emotion that would confuse me would be the need for that gesture of love. Then, I would want to think the gesture of love I see is sincere because I need it to be sincere so that my emotional needs are met.

Also, even before I knew about NPD, my mother didn't feel safe to me. When she spoke to me affectionately, it spooked me like hell. It felt like someday she would shower me with whatever she thinks love is and I would be drowned in it. I had no idea why.

Hope all this helps

[Sapling]

I'm still blaming myself a lot and second guessing everything. I thought that "knowing" would just "fix" it in my head and I would think more rightly, but realizing I have a long way to go. Counselor used the word "codependent" with me for the first time.

Encouraged and sad at the same time. It's embarrassing to realize that I let myself go through this for 15+ years (even though I know that is not exactly how it goes).

I'm 8-10 months in...How long has it taken some of you to forgive yourselves? Or at least to stop blaming yourself?

Dear Matteblak,

Firstly I just want to say, it must be so painful to have a PD spouse offer you something like the physical affection that you probably long for. My heart goes out to you because I know what its like to be in a position where you have to mistrust your own longings in order to stay safe.

Secondly, it is NOT your fault that its taken a while to see what's going on clearly. PDs use selfish and cunning tactics in relationships that most nons cannot see coming. The abuse takes shape slowly and insidiously. It is never immediately apparent. One thing that really helped me was when my T said that PDs often have these traits as [mal]adaptive behaviors to help them get some of their needs met. If they were easy to spot, it wouldn't work as an adaptive behavior. She told me I did not need to feel bad about not spotting it straight away.

FWIW I think you're doing really well to be in therapy, on here posting and sharing your experience, and allowing yourself to wake up to this slowly and- from other posts I've seen of yours- in a way that is still grounded in your own deep values and spirituality. I cannot offer you any advice other than keep paying attention to what is going on for you and keep sharing with people you trust, whether that is your T, your friends, or the other folks on here.
Sending you a virtual hug.

[SparkStillLit]

Knowing what you're dealing with doesn't "fix" how you feel inside. It also doesn't change having needs, and not getting them met by this particular person. You'll grieve that this person isn't ever going to be the one who meets those needs. Once you even reach that point in your head and heart. You barely just learned what kind of poop you stepped in. Don't beat yourself about it. We all got here for various reasons. It's good we noticed. Now we need to get about cleaning off the poop and not stepping in more. It's a difficult process. Lots to learn about ourselves. Not so much about them. We want to set up boundaries, learn to hold them, learn how to protect ourselves, that kind of thing. Learn how to take care of US.  That's generally what we're not good at. Putting ourselves first.

[Matteblak]

FWIW I think you're doing really well to be in therapy, on here posting and sharing your experience, and allowing yourself to wake up to this slowly and- from other posts I've seen of yours- in a way that is still grounded in your own deep values and spirituality. I cannot offer you any advice other than keep paying attention to what is going on for you and keep sharing with people you trust, whether that is your T, your friends, or the other folks on here.
Sending you a virtual hug.

Thank you Sapling for the encouragement. As with many others, I'm realizing, family was the first to be pushed out of my life when she came along, followed very quickly thereafter by my friends.

Now I keep everyone at arms length. This forum has really been my opportunity to say these things "out loud." The "good" thing about her being covert is that she has no friends (everyone "hates, is jealous of, etc." her) so only her family are there as flying monkeys.

It has been so nice to say these things online and not get the normal stupid replies back. Dr Ramani had a great video the other day about things NOT to say to people undergoing narcissistic abuse. I've heard all but the "psychic" one.

Grateful that God allowed me to find Out of the FOG. Thanks for the hug. 

[Phoenix Rising]

I think what you have endured would cause anyone who has suffered it themselves to become hypervigilant and suspicious when the abuser is lovebombing or feeding breadcrumbs to you through nice gestures. You aren't alone in feeling this way or experiencing what you have.

I've spend some time over the years learning about PD and I still find that I have my guard up with everyone I encounter. But especially with the PD people that I have no choice but to have in my life. Recently, a PD family member rang me up, sounding all sweet and caring... I found that even after knowing what she is for some time now, I still wonder what exactly she is trying to get out of me. It came out some weeks later that she wanted something after all. I felt embarrassed to have thought it could be different this time.

I don't have much of an answer on a timeframe.. Healing is a long process and involves more than just knowing who they are. Keep doing what you are doing - it will help you grow and regain confidence in yourself. To trust your intuition. Sadly, there are so many out there who do not understand how insidious and cunning PDs can be. But I have found so far that there are some people in my life who see PDs for what they are and that can be trusted. There are also other people around the world who are on sites like Out of the FOG who get it too.

Try to be kind to yourself - you could not have possibly known what you are dealing with and you are taking steps to heal. The abuse is on the abuser, never you.

[commongoal123]

Before I knew that what I was dealing with was PD, I used to be so excited when my wife would hand out the little nuggets of physical (and/or emotional) attention that she would (started out daily, then weekly, then monthly, lately we're at 5-6 times a year). So I've spent 8 months learning about PD and narrowing down what I'm possibly dealing with...then today...she offered to give me a back rub and every fire alarm in my head went off. It seemed so out of place and odd and I have this dread that it will cost me in terms of "how could you do this to me after I gave you a back rub" or worse, her just making up stuff that I did/said afterward, and then telling me that tis the reason she never does things like that and likely won't for a long time. It's like its the whole things is the setup for a long drought. Am I alone in being suspicious, having the hair on my neck stand up, thinking "what's the catch?" How do you handle this? It feels "darned if I do and darned if I don't." Thoughts, advice?

Hey OP,

Dude in his mid 30s here.

Love bombing through my experiences usually happens towards the beginning of a relationship, though it may occur later on at well.  It's main purpose is to get you to let your guard down and to trust, so you are more easily manipulated.  Usually it occurs at the beginning of a relationship where you are idolized and put up on a pedestal and all the PD wants to do is love love love and give give give.  Which makes you feel really special and puts your guard down.  Then one day they suddenly switch to thwir true form.

What you are experiencing might be breadcrumbs.  They are sensing that you're "waking up" or that you're seeing what's really going on (i.e. who they really are) and so she's doing something "loving" to try and maintain the veil periodically and it is usually the bare minimum (i.e. breadcrumb).  A backrub for me has been more than the bare minimum, but something like this in a situation with a PD (or during my teenage days in general... I have this theory that teenagers date like PDs while learning how to date)... anyway something like a backrub from a PD like this may use it as leverage later or "poor me, i did this ome thing for you" definitely withbstrings attached but they don't let you know what those expectations are until you don't do them, and then it is up to you to figure out it goes back to the backrub.

It all takes us our own time frames to figure out what we have been living in.  In my case, I nevee married.  But i had multiple long term relationships over the course of about 10 years of PDs.  My most recent one was the first since dating my first borderline that wasn't a PD, but she was definitely not ready to date and it was unhealthy for me.  Nonetheless, progress has definitely been made on my part.

A quick note that "psychic" abuse is like emotional and psychological manipulation/abuse.  When you hear one of those terms, likely they are all being referred to.

Anyway... 15 years isn't as long as it could have been my friend!  It took me about 10 years of dating shitty PD-like people until I started coming Out of the FOG.  But I read stories on this forum, and another forum, of soooooo many people who are still in it and much older than me.  Indeed, some people never come out of it at all during their lifetime.  However, when I include my childhood, which is where all.of this usually starts, it's taken me my whole life so far to figure this out/make the realization.

And that's how it works I think.  It is a lifong process in one way or another.  I dont blame myself all the time or feel massive guilt anymore, but the shame does pop up sometimes.  And when it does, I just have to identify it as shame and it goes away.  Once I had a grasp of the concept of shame and how nonsensical it was (and WHERE IT CAME FROM and started in my life as a child), all I do is label it shame and it goes away.  Because it isn't mine.  It's someone else's shame that they projected onto you be it a parent, grandparent, older sibling, or PD lover.  The trick is identifying it while it is happening because shame is sneaky.  But once you realize "oh, wait, this is shame talking" while also understanding where that shame came from, the self blame and guilt will go with it.  And maybe a month or two later it might pop up again, and all you'll have to do is just catch what is going on and identify.

Very hard to do when you are with someone who is shaming and gaslighting you though.

This is not your fault.  Keep forgiving yourself over and over and over again.  Eventually it will start to work, and eventually you'll be angry towards those who put you through what they put you through inatead of blaming yourself.  Which is a whole other can of worms.

The above process after disengaging from my last PD relationship has taken maybe 4 years.  Now I am at a place where I have to learn when kindness and love is genuinve vs manipulative, and learn to trust again when it comes to that (and it is getting there).  Like... if I become attracted to someone I immediately question it because I am subconsciously drawn to PDs and crazy people.  And I've met 2 girls in the past 1 1/2 years I found attractive and fun, and they liked me too.  But I kept my distance and respectuflly declined their advances.  And you know what?  After a few months of just being friends, I started to the crazy making crap coming out that I otherwise would have had my emotions all wrapped up in.  I saw all of it from outside the forest as though I had been in a relationship with them, recovered, and then really saw what was going on... except without all the heartache and disappointment and loss associated with relationship.  I did this by being mindful of the fact that I am subconsciously attracted to these types of people (my inner joke with myself is I could go to a masquerade ball and walk out with the one PD in there lol).  The other part was listening to my instincts, which said "something is off here".  So, another example of what progress may look like to you/for you.

I am also in the stage of recovery where I am no longer shaming and blaming myself to death or feeling sorry for myself, but instead am dealing with decades worth of repressed anger towards people who were doing me very wrong (mom, dad, past ex's, etc).  Which disturbs my inner peace just in a different way.  And also trying to let love in again amd believe it exists.  Like... I believe it exists, but I just didn't feel like that's true.

One thing I can say for sure.  Trust your instincts.  They won't lie to you and will become a greater indicator for you as time passes.  If something doesnt seem right... it probably isn't.

And a lot of learning this stuff has required me to stay single.  And you know what?  After 2 years I am starting to like being single.  Although it is not a life goal of mine.... I'd like a partner and a small family.

So... the point I am trying to drive home to you OP is that this is a lifelong learning process.  But it gets easier.  And it starts to make sense.  And when it starts to make sense, that's when the anger phase starts to show up.

Bottom line though, keep forgiving yourself for making a mistake.  A mistake you were set-up to make by someone else in your childhood, and that it has nothing to do with you and isn't your fault.  Keep loving yourself and being kind to yourself even when it feels selfish.  I'll bet it isn't selfish.  At least not in this stage of recovery.  Listen to what you want or need when you feel funky or sad or off.  Just ask "what do I need right now".  And the answer should happen really fast and it might be the first thing that comes to mind.  If you dont get an answer, change the word from "need" to "want".  If you don't get an answer just keep asking until the answer shows up.  And you'll then have whatever it is you need to do for yourself when you feel temporarily stuck or miserable.

Peace and love bud.  There is light at the end of the tunnel.  You just gotta keep moving through it... forwards.  Not backwards.  And it is okay if you take 5 steps forwards and suddenly have taken 4 steps backwards.

Recovery is a spiraling falling forward motion.

[Matteblak]

Thank you commongoal123. I think you are right about the terminology. I need to memorize the glossary here...

I needed some of the tough things you said as well. There is so much of myself I'm having to come to grips with to understand where I stopped being an independent person and became an accessory in her...whatever it is.

And I guess I left off the finale...there was never again a mention of a back rub. Worse yet, I don't LIKE back rubs. Thought about this  as I was told that something I was working on  yesterday was "not on the priority list"...Hmmm, it was on MY priority list.

Oh the things you begin to notice. Thanks again to all of you.

[Lauren17]

Encouraged and sad at the same time. It's embarrassing to realize that I let myself go through this for 15+ years (even though I know that is not exactly how it goes).

I'm 8-10 months in...How long has it taken some of you to forgive yourselves? Or at least to stop blaming yourself?

I haven't been able to post in a couple of days, but I wanted to respond to this directly.
The wiser people on this site would remind that each relationship is different and we are each on our own path. And they would be right. 
But, I know I always feel a little better when I know I'm not the only one facing a problem.
My H is very covert. I recognized issues with his FOO earlier, but I was married 15+ years before I realized something was very wrong with H's behaviors.
It's been 5 years since my a-ha moment. However, I've only just found a T, so have been working through this 99% on my own. In early days, I tried to share with a "friend". She no longer returns my calls. So I didn't  share with anyone else until I found Out of the FOG.
I think you're doing great. You've identified a problem, found a T, found Out of the FOG, and are working on you. Try to be patient with yourself.
I agree with Commongoal that love bombing usually occurs at the beginning of the relationship. But, my H went through a second love bombing stage about 10 years in. The rest tho, have been breadcrumbs. The terms don't matter as much as the intent behind them and our responses to them.