Don't touch it, I'll get to it version 2 (don't touch your own stuff)

[Prototypian]

I've already spoken about the piles and hoarding and junk all over the house.   In an effort to have my own peace, I bought a tiny file cabinet for my home office and began using it for my own things.    I have medical expenses that need reimbursement, annual car registration and some things for work related to contracts and other stuff that I have started keeping as backup and easy record keeping.   

Today she found my file cabinet in the office and lost it.    She was upset I was now storing things  in a file.   She asked why I wasn't keeping this with the family stuff and I said that I have no idea how the file system of piles works.   She broke down bawling and then alternating with anger.   She doesn't want me to be filing those things like that and again said she is going to work on getting her office straightened.    There is a file cabinet in there but a person can't make it to that side of the office with all of the boxes, piles and trash in the space.

I seriously couldn't believe how angry and sad at the same time she was over me just keeping a folder full of dr receipts and contracts.  It's completely unobtrusive and I don't put anything out where it causes any problems.  I also take nothing from her piles of stuff.


It's just another thjng I don't understand about PDs.

[Poison Ivy]

It seems as though you managed to breach your wife's denial about how disordered her behavior is. I doubt that realizing the truth will lead to long-lasting change, but I think it's good you told your wife the truth and that you stayed in the situation through her reaction.

[Cascade]

Good for you to trying to have a bit of order in your life! I hope you stick with it despite her reaction.

[notrightinthehead]

Try with the theory that she needs to control everything. Everything.

Then look at yourself and check how much control you are giving her. You have the right to say NO and not give an explanation.

[Boat Babe]

I think, as Poison Ivy said, that when she saw your own, organised space it freaked her because not only is she reminded that her own organization is very dysfunctional but that you are also empowering yourself by taking control of your stuff. This second thing would be wildly triggering for someone with a PD, leading to disregulated behaviour and batshit efforts to regain control.

As far as you're concerned, you did a bit of home admin. As far as she's concerned, you are judging her on her mess (which has its own little emotional subtext) AND doing something healthy, independent of her (abandonment fears kick in here I reckon). Prepare for DARVO.

This is why JADE doesn't work. Ever. Nothing we can say will get through. Nothing.

Then, when we've fully accepted that, we have to approach the next truth, which is that people with PDs rarely, if ever, change. I spend most of my time on the elderly PD parents board, and my goodness, there's a lot of very abusive, desperately disordered 90 year olds out there, still causing havoc.  Just sayin.

[Pepin]

What you wrote is maddening.  I'm the type of person that has everything filed away in our kitchen filing drawer with tabs.  I clean it out every January and move it into a file box and then keep everything for 7 years.  I do this because many times, I need to retrieve something important - whether it is a health item or large purchase, etc.

The issues I've had with DH is that he has tried to commingle his mother's (PDmil) documents with ours.  I explicitly told him that he must keep her files separate from ours since she no longer handles her affairs.

The other piece to this is that DH has a side business with his brother in addition to having one with me.  I used to file those documents but gave up because it was so messy.  He likes to scan stuff but sometimes takes a long time to do it and then it piles up.  Now he has a large documents box that he keeps next to the scanner and just drops in what he has scanned as he does it.  He keeps those business file boxes separate from our family file boxes.  And he keeps PDMil's stuff away from ours.

The point is that all of these kinds of documents need to be accessed easily at any give time.  I worry that if something happened to DH and I, what kind of mess would we be leaving behind for our children?  We owe it to them to be as transparent as possible about documents we save. 

I grew up with mess.  NF was a hoarder and disorganized.     And I can only imagine when he passes, what a mess he will be leaving behind.  That being said, I went NC with him 13 years ago.  My fear is that others will gain access to sensitive info about my siblings and I that NF still has.  My siblings are also NC with NF.

Being messy with important documents in my opinion is abusive as you have outlined and there is no excuse for it.  Call your wife out on it by asking what would happen if something happened to the both of you?  How would someone or the kids deal with her system of organization?  She has no right to do what she is doing.

[Phoenix Rising]

Try with the theory that she needs to control everything. Everything.

Then look at yourself and check how much control you are giving her. You have the right to say NO and not give an explanation.